PDA

View Full Version : Merged Threads: Reds are shopping Jason Larue



OnBaseMachine
03-23-2006, 07:10 AM
I was reading another board and saw that someone said their are hot rumors going around in Sarasota of a possible Jason LaRue for Brad Penny deal. He also went on the say that Ryan Freel is being showcased to other teams. Is anyone hearing anything on this? Big Donkey or maybe someone with inside connections?

Jason LaRue is one of the favorite players, but if Krivsky is able to land a young power such as Penny then I would probably have to pull the trigger. I would also lobby for Hee Seop Choi to be thrown into the deal.

As for Freel, same situation as LaRue - I love him as a baseball player, but if the Marlins are looking for a speedy leadoff type outfielder, and if I am Wayne Krivsky, I offer up Freel and a prospect for Scott Olsen. Freel and a Dickerson or Denorfia should be enough.

If Krivsky could pull off these two deals, in my opinion it makes the Reds a pretty damn good team. Not good enough to win the NL Central but enough to at least make a run at the NL Wildcard.

SS Lopez
3B Encarnacion
LF Dunn
CF Griffey Jr.
RF Kearns
1B Choi
2B Aurilia
C Valentin

Aaron Harang
Brad Penny
Brandon Claussen
Bronson Arroyo
Scott Olsen

I don't like Aurilia in the lineup but what can you do, other than trade for a better 2B?

OnBaseMachine
03-23-2006, 07:15 AM
OK, I just had an idea for second base. Since there is a chance the Indians make place Brandon Phillips on waivers, offer the Indians a prospect for him. He brings good defense to the table and still has some potential in his bat.

OnBaseMachine
03-23-2006, 07:28 AM
I'm talking to myself.

Too many catchers

The acquisition of catcher David Ross leaves the Reds' roster overstuffed with catchers — four on the 40-man roster — Jason LaRue, Javier Valentin, Dane Sardinha and Ross. And all four are out of options.

What's up with that?

"Two are on the team for sure (LaRue, Valentin)," said GM Krivsky. Before Wednesday's game, Narron said he was leaning toward keeping 12 pitchers, but Krivsky said, "We could go with 11. We could go with three catchers."

That means they'd lose one for sure, probably Sardinha, the team's No. 2 draft choice in 2000.

Perhaps there is a trade in the wind? Krivsky smiled with a glint and said, "We'll see how it plays out."

http://www.daytondailynews.com/sports/content/sports/reds/daily/0323redsnotesweb.html

redsmetz
03-23-2006, 07:44 AM
That means they'd lose one for sure, probably Sardinha, the team's No. 2 draft choice in 2000.

And we traded the No. 1 away a few years ago in a dud trade (what was his name???). I think both of those guys and Bowden did themselves a disservice by signing to ML contracts. It's forced the Reds to carry them on the 40 man roster the entire time. Now they're out of time. Of course, I think Sardinha has shown that he's not very likely to be a hitter at the Major League level. Any value on a ML roster will be as a backup. Another bust for the system.

WVRed
03-23-2006, 08:18 AM
And we traded the No. 1 away a few years ago in a dud trade (what was his name???). I think both of those guys and Bowden did themselves a disservice by signing to ML contracts. It's forced the Reds to carry them on the 40 man roster the entire time. Now they're out of time. Of course, I think Sardinha has shown that he's not very likely to be a hitter at the Major League level. Any value on a ML roster will be as a backup. Another bust for the system.

Brian Moehler.

The third of the big three, Dustin Moseley, was traded for Ramon Ortiz.

Go figure.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 08:54 AM
I think Sardhina goes to BOS for Van Buren, or Ross could be going to BOS.

If a Penny / LaRue trade is on the table, I'd take it. I'd like to get Choi as well, but not sure what else we'd have to throw in the deal. I'd certainly have no problems throwing in Elizardo or Germano to get Choi.

rdiersin
03-23-2006, 09:23 AM
I don't know if we can get Olsen for Freel and prospect, unless that prospect is a good prospect (isn't that contradictory in the Reds organization?). I just can't see it from what the Marlins have done. I mean, Freel is cheap, but a combo of Freel and Denorfia just don't seem enough to me for a young cheap, pitcher. But there's always TINSAPP too, so.... If the Marlins would do that deal, it would be great for the Reds. Also, maybe a Nolasco for Freel straight up trade. That wouldn't be too bad for either team IMO.

I would think about one trade for it all. I think I've mentioned this one before, but I like a trade to the Dodgers for Penny, Choi, Orenduff, Ruggiano for Larue, Freel, Mercker/Weathers, and maybe a Germano/Elizardo if it is required. I think it is a win win. The Dodgers get a good catcher, a much needed multi-purpose OF (which they'll need), and bullpen help. The Reds get back one good pitcher, another potential starter, a 1B that the Dodgers are going to get rid of anyway.

Chip R
03-23-2006, 09:25 AM
Take this for what it's worth but LaRue is going to catch Arroyo on Saturday because they want him to be familiar with his stuff ASAP. I'd say that from that statement, Jason isn't going to be traded but you never know.

redsfan30
03-23-2006, 09:30 AM
The only thing that would worry me about Brad Penny is his past arm related issues.

I'd be real interested in hearing from one of our sources to see if anything is actually being discussed in this regard.

Dunner44
03-23-2006, 09:38 AM
LaRue catching Harang and Arroyo is one of two things...

1) Jason getting comfortable w/ Bronson and Aaron ---> Trade Javy? Wise fills in the left-handed role and he's been scorching... and has more utility.

or

2) Jason trying out for WayneK to see if he is really as good w/ pitchers as he says he is.... to see if they should keep or trade him.

MrCinatit
03-23-2006, 09:41 AM
i could live with a Brad Penny - i think the most homers he's given up in a season is 21. some of our other guys could give that many up in a month.

corkedbat
03-23-2006, 12:07 PM
I wouldn't mind a Penny-for-LaRue deal and wouldn't mind expanding it to include some of the Dodger farmsystem bounty or other young talent (think they'd kick in Antonio Perez for Tony Womack? :laugh: ).

If we do deal Jason its time to get serious about getting a couple of solid all-round young catchers into the system for the futue either by the draft or trade (maybe the Dodgers would kick in Martin or Navarro also :devil: ).

I'm sorry, but Valentine, Ross, Sardinha and Perez just don't get it longterm for me.

M2
03-23-2006, 12:29 PM
If the Reds are dealing with the Dodgers, I'd much rather get a prospect like Orenduff than Penny. Penny's got healty issues I wouldn't want to have to manage.

jowica
03-23-2006, 12:46 PM
I think its going to be LaRue traded, thus making Valentin the everday catcher. I say this because Krivsky is familiar with Javier as he was a former prospect in the Twins organization. He was a rising star with the Twins and saw playing time at 21 years of age. His departure from the Twins organization came about due to unfulfilled potential and with the signing of highly touted Joe Mauer. Valentin's potential was finally realized in 2005.

DoogMinAmo
03-23-2006, 12:49 PM
I think its going to be LaRue traded, thus making Valentin the everday catcher. I say this because Krivsky is familiar with Javier as he was a former prospect in the Twins organization. He was a rising star with the Twins and saw playing time at 21 years of age. His departure from the Twins organization came about due to unfulfilled potential and with the signing of highly touted Joe Mauer. Valentin's potential was finally realized in 2005.

Mustache Envy?

Dunner44
03-23-2006, 01:19 PM
from today's Post:

Narron said he plans to have LaRue catch Arroyo's start so the two can begin to get familiar with each other.

Looks like Jason is staying

PTBNL
03-23-2006, 03:03 PM
Take this for what it's worth but LaRue is going to catch Arroyo on Saturday because they want him to be familiar with his stuff ASAP. I'd say that from that statement, Jason isn't going to be traded but you never know.

OR it may be because he is already familiar with him from their days in the AFL? :p:

CincyRedsFan30
03-23-2006, 03:51 PM
It doesn't sound like anything is imminent involving LaRue, although it does seem like there have been some talks with teams about him.

No one in Sarasota has heard the Brad Penny rumors as far as I can tell.

SidneySlicker
03-23-2006, 04:29 PM
From Espn

Jared (ohio): Do you see the Reds making anymore trades before the start of the season?

Gary Gillette: (4:18 PM ET ) Word is that they are shopping Jason LaRue for more starting pitching. They are in a panic about their staff. Not that that justifies dealing Pena straight-up for Arroyo, mind you.
I think the Pena trade is justified and that they weren't going to get more interms of major league experience and upside pitching. I think they should be worried about their pitching. I've never been a very big Larue fan. He's a average hitter with slightly above average defensive skills. If the reds can get a #2 or 3 pitcher for Larue, I'm all over it. It will be interesting. I think if something is gonna happen it should come down soon as I imagine another team would want a catcher to get a little time in spring training with their pitchers before the season starts. Should be interesting

Also in this chat.

John (Portland, ME): So you think the Red Sox got the better of the Pena/Arroyo trade?

Gary Gillette: (4:21 PM ET ) No question. Boston traded a commodity they had in excess for a potential superstar. And the Reds will give Wily Mo's at bats to Scott Hatteberg and Rich Aurilia. UGH

You gotta give to get. We gave a one dimensional player to a team with an access of pitching, sounds pretty normal to me. I don't know if Gary ever saw Pena play defense, but after a year with the Bo Sox I'm sure he'll understand what the reds have been fighting the last 3 years.

OldXOhio
03-23-2006, 04:30 PM
FWIW, in a pre-game interview yesterday, Billy Hatcher acknowledged the presence of the Reds roster having 3 catchers and in light of the team's desire to carry 12 pitchers, said the team would only take 2 back to Cincy. Whether that means a demotion or a trade remains to be seen, but like the Hatteberg acquisition, I'd imagine Krivsky has something in the works.

redsfan30
03-23-2006, 04:33 PM
Maybe there is something to the LaRue for Penny rumor.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 04:38 PM
I think LaRue is underrated. He does bring a lot to the table. Having said that, he is getting expensive: $3.9M this year and $5.2M in 2007, and his 2007 salary escalates to 5.45M if he traded after this coming offseason.

I'd be looking to move him, too with Valentin set to make $1.15M this year.

LaRue's going to be too expensive and declining in skills by the time the "rebuilding" is almost complete.

Brad Penny would be a nice return.

LaRue and Mercker/Weathers/Germano/or E. Ramirez to the Dodgers for Penny and Choi would be even better.

Chip R
03-23-2006, 04:40 PM
Brad Penny would be a nice return.


But would people complain that all we got for LaRue was cash? (a Penny) ;)

Joseph
03-23-2006, 04:44 PM
But would people complain that all we got for LaRue was cash? (a Penny) ;)


Booooo! :)

Gainesville Red
03-23-2006, 04:44 PM
Yeah, that was terrible.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 04:46 PM
But would people complain that all we got for LaRue was cash? (a Penny) ;)

I'm neg'ing you for that putrid crap...:laugh:

vaticanplum
03-23-2006, 04:47 PM
Can I ask what people's opinions are on what the Reds could get for Valentin after the year he had? (as if you've never discussed it before I'm sure, but I'm too lazy to look)

NC Reds
03-23-2006, 04:48 PM
Larue is undervalued. A platoon of Ross and Valentin won't cut it. Keep Larue.

redsfan30
03-23-2006, 04:48 PM
Say they could get a Brad Penny coming back to Cincinnati:

1. Aaron Harang
2. Brad Penny
3. Brandon Claussen
4. Bronson Arroyo
5. Eric Milton

Can you win with that rotation?

Gainesville Red
03-23-2006, 04:50 PM
If they're trading Larue, I hope they at least let him stay for Jason Larue John Deere hat night.

reds44
03-23-2006, 04:51 PM
Say they could get a Brad Penny coming back to Cincinnati:

1. Aaron Harang
2. Brad Penny
3. Brandon Claussen
4. Bronson Arroyo
5. Eric Milton

Can you win with that rotation?
Yes.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 04:52 PM
Can I ask what people's opinions are on what the Reds could get for Valentin after the year he had? (as if you've never discussed it before I'm sure, but I'm too lazy to look)

I'd imagine that Valentin's value is close to LaRue's (because of a smaller salary), but not as high. He hasn't been proven as long as LaRue has. Kind of the difference between an all meat hot dog and one with L&A's in it.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 04:56 PM
Personally, I'd rather see Odalis Perez coming back than Penny, despite the rotation already being LH dominant. Penny gives up a lot of HR's, and has more health issues, IMO. Also, he's more expensive than Perez, and has a limited trade clause in his contract (can only be traded to 5 unknown teams without his consent).

vaticanplum
03-23-2006, 04:59 PM
I'd imagine that Valentin's value is close to LaRue's (because of a smaller salary), but not as high. He hasn't been proven as long as LaRue has. Kind of the difference between an all meat hot dog and one with L&A's in it.

That's kind of my feeling too. I don't think that Valentin's value is going to get any higher than it is right now -- still lower than LaRue's, but at its peak.

My feelings are
1. straight up, LaRue will get us more
2. that said, I don't know that LaRue will get us ENOUGH. Whereas Valentin just came off a career-high year, other teams may not rate LaRue as highly as we do since he's right at the beginning bad-catcher-age.
3. so LaRue is more valuable to this team than he is to any other
4. the idea of this team without LaRue scares me a lot more than this team without Valentin

I supported both the Casey and Pena trades, but I'm very hesitant to trade LaRue. I kind of think, all things considered, that Valentin is the one they should be shopping right now.

KronoRed
03-23-2006, 05:11 PM
Well at least us Reds fans aren't the only ones going UGH over giving at bats to Hatteberg and Rich

dougdirt
03-23-2006, 05:12 PM
True Krono....but I bet we have to watch it more than he does....UGH. Especially to Hatteberg.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 05:17 PM
I supported both the Casey and Pena trades, but I'm very hesitant to trade LaRue. I kind of think, all things considered, that Valentin is the one they should be shopping right now.

Normally, I'd agree with you, but as I said above, LaRue is going to be declining and getting more expensive as the rebuilding process continues. Say the year they are targeting to fully contend is 2008. LaRue will be working on a new contract coming off of a year he just made $5.0+M dollars. Are you going to fork over the cash to resign him to another contract? I woudln't. Javy is serviceable as a catcher to bridge the gap, assuming LaRue gets us another SP that helps the rotation, and while more trading goes on, another catching prospect can be aquired that's ready to take over for Javy in 2007 or 2008 that will cost significantly less and allow us to spend more at other positions for that pennant run.

vaticanplum
03-23-2006, 05:29 PM
Good point.

I'll tell you what though, if these rumors prove to be true and LaRue is traded for another SP, the Reds will have officially moved from wow-they're-doing-a-lot-more-than-DanO territory into wow-they're-doing-a-lot-by-any-standard territory. That's an overhaul of three-fifths of our starting rotation in one off-season. Regardless of how you feel about the trades themselves, I think it's pretty clear that these guys mean business. If this trade happens, the Reds half of my heart, so settled into stagnation, may be shocked into medical danger.

Red Leader
03-23-2006, 05:31 PM
Good point.

I'll tell you what though, if these rumors prove to be true and LaRue is traded for another SP, the Reds will have officially moved from wow-they're-doing-a-lot-more-than-DanO territory into wow-they're-doing-a-lot-by-any-standard territory. That's an overhaul of three-fifths of our starting rotation in one off-season. Regardless of how you feel about the trades themselves, I think it's pretty clear that these guys mean business.

I hear you. These ain't your Grandpa's Cincinnati Redlegs. :laugh:

roby
03-23-2006, 05:42 PM
I know it was just one good year...some say a one and only good year, but I think Javier is a lot better than we give him credit for. He really stung the ball last year! I was extremely impressed with his performance. I know LaRue may be a little better with the pitchers, but probably not a LOT better. I would be glad to deal LaRue for Penny or Odalis. I would probably prefer Odalis. I am starting to get excited about what Castellini is doing. Go get some pitchers!

cincrazy
03-23-2006, 05:49 PM
I would be shocked if the Dodgers gave up a healthy Penny for LaRue. If we were to get Penny for LaRue, quite frankly, that would alarm me. Penny's arm problems were well documented. If this guy is healthy, he has the potential to be a very good starting pitcher. And Jason LaRue in himself is only an average catcher, who in my mind wouldn't be good enough to acquire a very good starting pitcher. Good pitching is so hard to come by, and I just don't feel that a Perez or Penny would be available for only LaRue if both were healthy. Plus the Dodgers have Navarro and Martin, two stud prospects, so I just don't see where Larue would fit in with them. Don't get me wrong, I would LOVE to see this trade happen, but I just don't see it happening.

westofyou
03-23-2006, 05:52 PM
Last 20th century Red, that's what LaRue is.

RedLegSuperStar
03-23-2006, 05:58 PM
Maybe there is something to the LaRue for Penny rumor.

If the Dodgers are going to deal Penny for LaRue, I will jump in my F-150 and drive to Sarasota and pick Jason up and drive him to LA to meet the press. Do that deal now Wayne

registerthis
03-23-2006, 06:08 PM
Last 20th century Red, that's what LaRue is.

The year 2000 was in the 20th century, so that's not true. Junior was here then too.

RedsManRick
03-23-2006, 06:09 PM
Makes no sense for them to give up Penny for LaRue unless Penny is a malcontent. They've got 2 legitimate catching prospects who are pretty much major league ready.

Redmachine2003
03-23-2006, 06:09 PM
Maybe we need to beef up the trade a little. Make it LaRue and Womack for Penny.

pedro
03-23-2006, 06:13 PM
The year 2000 was in the 20th century, so that's not true. Junior was here then too.

ok, so he was the last red partying like it was 1999.

Team Clark
03-23-2006, 06:14 PM
Makes no sense for them to give up Penny for LaRue unless Penny is a malcontent. They've got 2 legitimate catching prospects who are pretty much major league ready.

Navarro is hurt and he is really struggling when facing Big Leaguers. LaRue may be a one year band aid.

registerthis
03-23-2006, 06:20 PM
ok, so he was the last red partying like it was 1999.

that's more like it. :KoolAid:

Kc61
03-23-2006, 06:22 PM
Penny, I believe, is an extreme ground ball pitcher. If you can get him for Larue and a non-core pitcher, DWilliams or Mercker perhaps, I would do it.

pedro
03-23-2006, 06:24 PM
something tells me that Larue probably isn't much of a prince fan though.

RedsManRick
03-23-2006, 06:31 PM
Navarro is hurt and he is really struggling when facing Big Leaguers. LaRue may be a one year band aid.

Well, they still have Russ Martin, who is the better of the two, plus they have Sandy Alomar in camp who they can carry as the 2nd catcher.

Didn't LaRue sign a 2 year deal in the offseason or I'm I just losing it (a distinct possibility)? That said, I would be 100% behind a LaRue + random not too important arm for Penny.

Not sure if it's been posted, but his contract is:
2006 - $4.5 million
2007 - $7 million
2008 - $8.5 million
2009 - $9.25 million (option, $2 million buyout)

With Milton off the books after 2007, that's pretty palatable. Anybody have details on his health situation? It looks like he's been pitching this spring (16.2 IP).

KronoRed
03-23-2006, 06:33 PM
something tells me that Larue probably isn't much of a prince fan though.
We should ask Roy

Team Clark
03-23-2006, 06:44 PM
Well, they still have Russ Martin, who is the better of the two, plus they have Sandy Alomar in camp who they can carry as the 2nd catcher.

Didn't LaRue sign a 2 year deal in the offseason or I'm I just losing it (a distinct possibility)? That said, I would be 100% behind a LaRue + random not too important arm for Penny.

Not sure if it's been posted, but his contract is:
2006 - $4.5 million
2007 - $7 million
2008 - $8.5 million
2009 - $9.25 million (option, $2 million buyout)

With Milton off the books after 2007, that's pretty palatable. Anybody have details on his health situation? It looks like he's been pitching this spring (16.2 IP).

You're absolutely correct. Martin, who I have not seen, seems to be legit. Sandy has caught well in camp but I don't know,in all seriousness, if he can catch more than 40-45 games. Having said that, he made one heck of a throw yesterday to nail Jose Reyes. Mike Piazza, Jose Valentin and about 10 other catchers I can think of can't do that.

Jr's Boy
03-23-2006, 06:50 PM
But who'll be team captain then?

MartyFan
03-23-2006, 06:57 PM
Okay, long way to go with this one but here me out...Krivsy ALWAYS has a direction. It is how he has been trained in the biz...Corey Koskie was on MLB with Charlie Steiner and talking about his time in Toronto and the rumors that he was going to go back to the Twins but he said he never bought into that because the Twins don't "look back they look forward and even when they make moves that on the surface don't make sense right away, eventually they always have something up their sleeves.."

It is no real mystery that we have a + on middle infielders and only one of them really holds any trade value...we also have a + on Cathers...and only one of them has any real trade value and we have a + of OF's where a couple of them have value...so, those are the spots I would look to be on the move (if not now, eventually) to bring the team some pitching.

Krivsky has a plan...and he is working it.

Also, get used to the idea of LaRue in another uniform.

MartyFan
03-23-2006, 07:04 PM
But who'll be team captain then?

If memory serves we have a young OF who just signed a contract and he has some on the field leadership skills? Dunn?

redsfanmia
03-23-2006, 07:10 PM
If the Reds can get a major league arm for LaRue they should do it.

PuffyPig
03-23-2006, 07:25 PM
A more realistic (from both the Reds and Dodgers perspective) trade proposal might be Larue for Martin and Choi. We get younger (and cheaper) at catcher and get a firstbaseman who's better than what we got. It frees up some money for pitching.

Or, Valentin for Choi.

If we trade larue, we could really use getting back his replacement. The likely best time to move Larue for a major league ready cheaper option is right now.

Nugget
03-23-2006, 08:22 PM
Dane's going back to AAA - there are no other catchers in AAA which means that not only do you need insurance for game situations but what happens if one of them gets injured. Obviously Perez isn't major league ready (sent to AA) which means they could easily go with Dane and Ross in AAA. The only risk is Ross being claimed of waivers. Krivsky seems to like taking that risk.

4256 Hits
03-23-2006, 09:17 PM
ok, so he was the last red partying like it was 1999.

You are all wrong! Chris Hammond is also on the current roster!;)

As for trading Larue if they can get a pitcher that can help the Reds win in 3 years make the trade because the Reds won't be anywhere near a .500 team the next two years.

Heath
03-23-2006, 09:58 PM
If this trade happens, the Reds half of my heart, so settled into stagnation, may be shocked into medical danger.

Ma'am, there aren't any doctors here at redszone.com .... :)

Hate to see the Big Cowboy go, but if there's pitching to be had - and good pitching for that, we could have a lot worse than Javy Valentin behind a plate.

Crash Davis
03-23-2006, 10:02 PM
Come on, there's no way the Dodgers trade Penny for LaRue. No way, no how.

buckeyenut
03-23-2006, 10:13 PM
Navarro is hurt and he is really struggling when facing Big Leaguers. LaRue may be a one year band aid.

So send them Mercker and LaRue for Penny, Choi and whichever one of their two catcher prospects is further away or they don't want.

Every team needs a good lefty for the pen and that gets us a 1B upgrade too.

Crash Davis
03-23-2006, 10:44 PM
So send them Mercker and LaRue for Penny, Choi and whichever one of their two catcher prospects is further away or they don't want.

Every team needs a good lefty for the pen and that gets us a 1B upgrade too.

Maybe we could get them to throw in Joel Guzman & Andy LaRoche while we're at it.

Aronchis
03-23-2006, 10:47 PM
Maybe we could get them to throw in Joel Guzman & Andy LaRoche while we're at it.

Maybe we just should as collateral. Penny gets expensive next year, with his health always a issue for him, the Dodgers may be trying to dump him before the implosion.

jmcclain19
03-23-2006, 11:35 PM
FYI - I have a friend that's high up in the Dodgers org that I talked to about a few of these tonight.

This is a long time friend and neighbor is always free and clear with me about his opinions and what is going on with the Dodgers.

Anyway - he knows I'm a Reds fan, and when I asked him about this tonight, he told me he'd better not say anything yet. Take that for what it is worth. I found it to be extremely interesting, although I know earlier in the winter when all of us went out and I was poking at Russ about not making the team next spring he told us that Grady pulled him aside and told him he wasn't a fan of "offensive catchers" and told him to work on his catching first and foremost.

With regard to the catchers, I know he's told me before that Little is more of a "veteran" guy and wasn't keen on having two rookie catchers. He pretty much told both Martin and Navarro not to even think about appearing in the WBC if they had notions of making the team. So Russ Martin went to stay with his pal Eric Gagne in Arizona in the offseason to work on being a big league catcher. They signed up Pat Borders, who has a weird deal with the team that if he's not on the big league squad, he'll be a player/coach for the High A Vero Beach Squad so he can stay close to home. Alomar is Little's crutch, for now, because he doesn't like the idea of giving the big league job to a AA ball catcher. Which is too bad, because Martin can hit.

About Choi, I will say however, that he's told me that the organization as a whole doesn't value Choi anymore - they view him as having the stink of Paul Depodesta and are looking to bring in new smells. They, being Coletti & Little refer to him as the Moneyball boy, and are hoping his HR in the classic will pump up his value so they don't have to outright release him. He's as good as gone.

Az. Reds Fan
03-23-2006, 11:58 PM
Great info jmcclain...it really does sound as though this LaRue-Penny deal has legs.

Being an Arizona guy, are you a little surprised that the Reds didn't go after Koyie Hill of the D'backs? I would have thought that may have been a good fit. Hill is also OOO, but he's got quite a bit more upside than Ross...Just a thought.

jmcclain19
03-24-2006, 12:12 AM
Great info jmcclain...it really does sound as though this LaRue-Penny deal has legs.

Being an Arizona guy, are you a little surprised that the Reds didn't go after Koyie Hill of the D'backs? I would have thought that may have been a good fit. Hill is also OOO, but he's got quite a bit more upside than Ross...Just a thought.

As irony has it - Hill used to be a Dodgers guy as well, so we've talked about him in the past.

I know DePo really liked him, but the Dbacks did as well and insisted on him as one of the trade pieces. But I know the rest of the Dodgers scouting staff didn't really like him. He's a converted catcher, he's former college 2b/3B and I can remember my friend telling me after the Dbacks trade that the scouts just weren't sold on him being a full time major leaguer - he tended to be, and still is, quite brittle, which isn't a good combo for a catcher. I don't think he's played a full season in three or four years.

Az. Reds Fan
03-24-2006, 12:20 AM
Speaking of this possible trade, wouldn't you think that the Reds and more specifically the Dodgers want to get this deal done fairly soon? You would think that the Dodgers would want LaRue to get some time behind the plate with their pitchers before the season starts. Again, just a thought.

Crash Davis
03-24-2006, 12:25 AM
Maybe we just should as collateral. Penny gets expensive next year, with his health always a issue for him, the Dodgers may be trying to dump him before the implosion.

LaRue & Mercker together don't have half the trade value of Brad Penny.

jmcclain19
03-24-2006, 12:46 AM
LaRue & Mercker together don't have half the trade value of Brad Penny.

I don't know about half - but I do agree about trading young pitching for a 30+ year old catcher straight up.

Maybe it's say - Austin Kearns and Jason LaRue for Brad Penny & Choi? Not that I have any idea - but it could be we haven't heard all the particulars yet.

Krusty
03-24-2006, 12:56 AM
Why not make the deal LaRue and LHP Dave Williams for RHP Brad Penny and lst baseman Choi?

If you're the Dodgers, you know you will be putting Choi on waivers. So why not throw him in the deal to Cincy? And if you're Krivsky, do you want to keep a Dan O'Brien acquistion that hasn't looked good at all in spring training?

schroomytunes
03-24-2006, 12:59 AM
I think you are going to see this trade headline in a couple of days:

Reds trade: Javier Valentin
Kent Mercker
Ryan Freel

Dodgers trade: Yancey Brazoban
Hee Sop Choi
low level prospect B rating

The Reds get their closer in Brazoban and can now strengthen the bench with a platoon at 1st with Hatteberg/Choi. The backup catcher is then David Ross.

The Dodgers get a solid catcher with pop, good lefty in the pen, and one of the best utility guys in the biz.

Krusty
03-24-2006, 01:06 AM
I think you are going to see this trade headline in a couple of days:

Reds trade: Javier Valentin
Kent Mercker
Ryan Freel

Dodgers trade: Yancey Brazoban
Hee Sop Choi
low level prospect B rating

The Reds get their closer in Brazoban and can now strengthen the bench with a platoon at 1st with Hatteberg/Choi. The backup catcher is then David Ross.

The Dodgers get a solid catcher with pop, good lefty in the pen, and one of the best utility guys in the biz.

Reds don't make the deal unless they get a starting pitcher. Why platoon Hatteberg/Choi when they are both lefthanded hitters? Brazoban self destructed last season when he took over for Gagne and is better for a setup role.

Guacarock
03-24-2006, 02:37 AM
Kent Mercker is another 20th Century Reds holdout -- still partying like it was 1997!

PTBNL
03-24-2006, 03:40 AM
From Rotoworld:
FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal believes the Reds are shopping Jason LaRue, who signed a two-year, $9.1 million contract in December.
They'd likely have better luck moving Javier Valentin if they want to break up the NL's most productive catching tandem from 2005. There aren't any teams looking for a starting catcher, especially not at that price. It's why Bengie Molina lasted so long as a free agent. Mar. 24 - 2:22 am et

Ken Rosenthal strikes again?! (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5439750)

Ron Madden
03-24-2006, 03:50 AM
Jason LaRue IS one of the most productive offensive catchers in the league.

Call me crazy but I believe LaRue is one of the most underrated players in the game today.

I know we need pitching but please let's take the time to think everything through. "WE MUST DEMAND VALUE IN RETURN" if and when we trade any player another team NEEDS.

Guacarock
03-24-2006, 04:33 AM
By the way, count me among the skeptics. A Penny-Larue deal doesn't make a lot of sense from the Dodgers' perspective unless Penny is damaged goods or the Reds are dangling another player or two to sweeten the pot. I don't see Kearns in the mix. The Dodgers are fairly set in the outfield. They could use LH bullpen help, though, so maybe Mercker might ring their chimes, or else a versatile, table-setting catalyst like Freel if they're afraid Kenny Lofton might finally be on his last legs.

My hunch: the Dodgers would prefer to steer any trade discussions with the Reds to Odalis Perez, who they owe at least $15 million over the next two years and who doesn't seem to be a building block for their rotation. The $9 million that the Reds are obligated to pay Larue would help balance the ledger. But if we're being asked to take Perez and all the upside-downside risks that entails, I'd also want catching prospect Russell Martin as Larue's potential heir apparent or else that ubiquitous player who always tops the Reds' wish list -- Pile O Cash.

Ho Seop Choi as a throw-in would provide some nominal value. As Krusty pointed out, he's a lefty like Hatteberg, so we couldn't easily platoon the two players at 1B. But if Valentin's going to catch for us this season, we could use a lefty with a little punch on our bench. Neither Womack or McCracken fill that bill. Maybe Cruz or Wise, although it remains to be seen if they'll get out of the chute to join the 2006 Reds.

savafan
03-24-2006, 05:56 AM
Consider me giddy if a Larue for Penny deal goes down.

buckeyenut
03-24-2006, 06:36 AM
People are mentioning how Choi is as good as gone, mostly because he was Depodesta's project. Well, Penny came over in the same deal so I could see why the LA brass would be looking to pretty much undo that deal altogether.

catcher Paul Lo Duca, reliever Guillermo Mota and outfielder Juan Encarnacion to the Florida Marlins on Friday night for pitcher Brad Penny, first baseman Hee Seop Choi and minor league left-hander Bill Murphy was the deal at the time. I believe Mercker and LaRue for Penny, Choi and Martin or Navarro is pretty close to that deal in value, especially given Choi's value to LA has plummetted. Id personally rather deal Valentin and maybe we have to throw in a prospect in to make a deal work, but I can live with that. I definitely would be asking them if they needed Womack as a throwin. :)

lollipopcurve
03-24-2006, 07:15 AM
I think Freel would have to be included if the Reds have a chance of bringing back Penny.

REDREAD
03-24-2006, 09:17 AM
I don't know if we can get Olsen for Freel and prospect, .

The Marlins are talking about dumping Willis and Cabera to save $$$. They're in full fire sale mode. I can't see them trading any young players for guys like Freel making over 1 million.
I agree. I think we need to look elsewhere to trade Freel to.

Crash Davis
03-24-2006, 09:26 AM
From Rotoworld:
FOXSports.com's Ken Rosenthal believes the Reds are shopping Jason LaRue, who signed a two-year, $9.1 million contract in December.
They'd likely have better luck moving Javier Valentin if they want to break up the NL's most productive catching tandem from 2005. There aren't any teams looking for a starting catcher, especially not at that price. It's why Bengie Molina lasted so long as a free agent. Mar. 24 - 2:22 am et

Ken Rosenthal strikes again?! (http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5439750)

Ken Rosenthal apparently has not been reading redszone.

VI_RedsFan
03-24-2006, 09:39 AM
OK, here is the deal I've been thinking about lately:

LaRue, Williams, Mercker, and Elizardo for Penny, Choi, and Martin

The Reds get another starter, an upgrade at first, and a young catcher to take over for Jason. The Dodgers get a good veteran catcher that Little wants, a good lefty in the 'pen that they need, a starter to take over in the rotation for Penny, and a young pitcher with some potential.

Krusty
03-24-2006, 09:43 AM
OK, here is the deal I've been thinking about lately:

LaRue, Williams, Mercker, and Elizardo for Penny, Choi, and Martin

The Reds get another starter, an upgrade at first, and a young catcher to take over for Jason. The Dodgers get a good veteran catcher that Little wants, a good lefty in the 'pen that they need, a starter to take over in the rotation for Penny, and a young pitcher with some potential.

No way will the Dodgers trade Martin because he is their catcher for the future.

LaRue would be a one year rental. Mercker is on the last year of his contract. If you're the Dodgers, do you trade Penny (who has three years remaining on his contract) for one year rentals?

PTBNL
03-24-2006, 09:44 AM
People are mentioning how Choi is as good as gone, mostly because he was Depodesta's project. Well, Penny came over in the same deal so I could see why the LA brass would be looking to pretty much undo that deal altogether.

catcher Paul Lo Duca, reliever Guillermo Mota and outfielder Juan Encarnacion to the Florida Marlins on Friday night for pitcher Brad Penny, first baseman Hee Seop Choi and minor league left-hander Bill Murphy was the deal at the time. I believe Mercker and LaRue for Penny, Choi and Martin or Navarro is pretty close to that deal in value, especially given Choi's value to LA has plummetted. Id personally rather deal Valentin and maybe we have to throw in a prospect in to make a deal work, but I can live with that. I definitely would be asking them if they needed Womack as a throwin. :)

Ah, don't forget that was an unfinished deal. ;) Vazquez was to go to the Dodgers. It was a failed 4 team deal.
I would also like to see Valentin go as well or instead, but I hope he proves me wrong if that is not the case.

registerthis
03-24-2006, 10:18 AM
I'm just not sold on heading into the season with Valentin as the predominant catcher. A good half season doesn't undo several years of sub-par performance. I need more convincing before I'd be willing to cede the job to Valentin.

M2
03-24-2006, 10:45 AM
I'd let the Dodgers cut Choi since it sounds like that's what they intend to do. No reason to trade for him.

L.A. also might want a reliever. I could see Weathers and/or Mercker appealing to them. In fact, LaRue, Weathers and Mercker could fetch a nice prospect haul from that organization.

I wouldn't be shopping for major leaguers with the Dodgers. I'm not that wild about the Dodgers' major league roster and I'd rather get a farm infusion. Starters Justin Orenduff and Scott Elbert, reliever Jonathan Broxton, 2B Travis Denker, OF Andre Ethier, those guys all interest me.

lollipopcurve
03-24-2006, 11:05 AM
I'd target Izturis. He may not be healthy till midseason, I hear, but eventually they could stick him at SS or 2B and they'd have a plus defender in the middle of the diamond.

rdiersin
03-24-2006, 11:10 AM
I'd target Izturis. He may not be healthy till midseason, I hear, but eventually they could stick him at SS or 2B and they'd have a plus defender in the middle of the diamond.

Not to mention the Dodgers really have no place for him with Kent staying at 2b and Frucal at short. I've thought for awhile that he would be a great person to try and get for the right price.

westofyou
03-24-2006, 11:21 AM
I'd target Izturis. He may not be healthy till midseason, I hear, but eventually they could stick him at SS or 2B and they'd have a plus defender in the middle of the diamond.
Bingo, word has it that he's WAYYYYY ahead of schedule in recovering.

Me, I get him, slide Lopez to 2nd and instantly the IF defense is on the verge of being pretty nice.

vaticanplum
03-24-2006, 11:25 AM
Oh where, oh where is the love for Hee Seop Choi...

Izturis is a good idea by the way.

redsfan30
03-24-2006, 11:29 AM
I would think if any deal is going to be made, it would be in the next few days.

Caveat Emperor
03-24-2006, 11:40 AM
I wouldn't be shopping for major leaguers with the Dodgers. I'm not that wild about the Dodgers' major league roster and I'd rather get a farm infusion. Starters Justin Orenduff and Scott Elbert, reliever Jonathan Broxton, 2B Travis Denker, OF Andre Ethier, those guys all interest me.

I'm curious as to whether or not an infusion of talent into the farm system is really on Krivsky's radar right now. He was handed a surefire last place team when he took over, and I think the reality of that is pressing him into making moves -- first Pena, now perhaps LaRue.

The timing of this also makes me question whether or not the Reds are looking for prospect return. If that's what they're angling for, I imagine that they could get a better haul of talent closer to the deadline when teams are willing to mortgage a bit of the future for a shot at winning right now down the stretch.

If it's me running things, I'm shopping Valentin for major league help right now and then, at the deadline or waiting and looking to shop LaRue for prospects to a team with a need for a catcher that can put a little bit of pop in their lineup.

ochre
03-24-2006, 01:31 PM
I'm curious as to whether or not an infusion of talent into the farm system is really on Krivsky's radar right now. He was handed a surefire last place team when he took over, and I think the reality of that is pressing him into making moves -- first Pena, now perhaps LaRue.

The timing of this also makes me question whether or not the Reds are looking for prospect return. If that's what they're angling for, I imagine that they could get a better haul of talent closer to the deadline when teams are willing to mortgage a bit of the future for a shot at winning right now down the stretch.

If it's me running things, I'm shopping Valentin for major league help right now and then, at the deadline or waiting and looking to shop LaRue for prospects to a team with a need for a catcher that can put a little bit of pop in their lineup.
So far, at least, he has acquired the flexibility to do both when/if it all goes south this season. Arroyo is maketable at the deadline (less risky than Pena even perhaps). The names that have been mentioned here so far would be, similarly, flex choices that should be equally viewed as commodities at that time of the season. If things go perfectly there is even a chance this team can compete for at least parts of this season. What will be telling will be if Krivsky can step back and make the right decision(s) at deadline time.

Crash Davis
03-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Oh where, oh where is the love for Hee Seop Choi...

Long a sabermetric darling, but he just has too many flaws. He's not good enough to want to go into the season with him as your starting 1B. Unfortunately, he's terribly ill-suited for a bench role.

They'll move on to a new darling soon enough...though I see rotoworld is still hanging onto Erubiel Durazo's "Beane Halo" like grim death.

M2
03-24-2006, 01:56 PM
Long a sabermetric darling, but he just has too many flaws. He's not good enough to want to go into the season with him as your starting 1B. Unfortunately, he's terribly ill-suited for a bench role.

They'll move on to a new darling soon enough...though I see rotoworld is still hanging onto Erubiel Durazo's "Beane Halo" like grim death.

I'd still take Choi over the seamhead blueplate special that is James Loney.

VI_RedsFan
03-24-2006, 02:48 PM
OK, how about this deal instead:

LaRue, Williams, Mercker for Penny, Choi, Izturis

lollipopcurve
03-24-2006, 02:52 PM
OK, how about this deal instead:

LaRue, Williams, Mercker for Penny, Choi, Izturis

Very one-sided in the Reds' favor. No way would the Dodgers do that.

VI_RedsFan
03-24-2006, 03:01 PM
OK, I give up. :)

BrooklynRedz
03-24-2006, 04:37 PM
Very one-sided in the Reds' favor. No way would the Dodgers do that.

They won't have the chance as Boston has claimed Choi off waivers.

VI_RedsFan
03-24-2006, 04:38 PM
They won't have the chance as Boston has claimed Choi off waivers.

OK Then. Now you can put me on the Trade for Ryan Shealy bandwagon.

fisch11
03-24-2006, 04:42 PM
Larue wouldn't hurt us that bad. Everybody knows that pitching carries teams to championships. And obviously, leading the world in homeruns last season didn't get us a pennant. I'm glad to see that Wayne is at least attempting to get some decent arms in here, and not some more gopher ball slingers.

klw
03-24-2006, 04:44 PM
They won't have the chance as Boston has claimed Choi off waivers.
Doesn't this mean that the Reds passed on claiming him?

savafan
03-24-2006, 04:48 PM
Why would Boston need Choi when they have Snow and Youkilis?

BRM
03-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Why would Boston need Choi when they have Snow and Youkilis?

They plan to use one of the three as trade bait? I don't know.

TOBTTReds
03-24-2006, 04:57 PM
They won't have the chance as Boston has claimed Choi off waivers.

Where'd you get this from?

BRM
03-24-2006, 04:58 PM
Where'd you get this from?

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions

klw
03-24-2006, 05:06 PM
Why would Boston need Choi when they have Snow and Youkilis?

There is concern about how Lowell will respond this year. This would give the Sox flexibility to move Youkilis back to 3rd. I believe Youkilis also has an option left so they could have him start at Pawtucket. Pena as we know has no options left. Maybe if they reworked his contract :)

M2
03-24-2006, 05:27 PM
Why would Boston need Choi when they have Snow and Youkilis?

klw made a good point about Youkilis possibly having to shift back over to 3B. Beyond that, it's the same reason as why the Red Sox had Roberto Petagine in their hip pocket all last year. It's always nice to have another option around just in case.

savafan
03-24-2006, 05:59 PM
Youkilis still has options? How old is he now, 206?

Gandalf the Red
03-24-2006, 06:13 PM
Youkilis still has options? How old is he now, 206?


"When 200 years old you reach, have as many options you will not, heh-heh."

savafan
03-24-2006, 06:19 PM
"When 200 years old you reach, have as many options you will not, heh-heh."

Finally your first post. I've been waiting for the poster with the coolest name to come out of his shell. :thumbup:

Gandalf the Red
03-24-2006, 06:30 PM
Finally your first post. I've been waiting for the poster with the coolest name to come out of his shell. :thumbup:

Thanks--one of my co-workers who is a Reds and Red Sox fan (but more the latter) just got back from spring training and saw Wily Mo's first homerun for Boston. I said that although it was the kind of trade the Reds probably had to make, I still have visions of Wily Mo hitting 50 bombs a year. She agreed but said that "Bronson's a cutie pie, so it's all good."

I'm thinking, "Great--I'll be sure to pass that along to the Redszone gang. I'm sure they'll all be very relieved." :rolleyes:


...We now return you to your regularly scheduled programming of how to steal Penny for LaRue. ("Remember Wayne, the Force can have a strong influence on the weak minded.")

I've exhausted my quota of SW references for at least a day.

Guacarock
03-26-2006, 02:25 AM
Marc Lancaster says in his blog that the Reds had a scout at the Dodgers' game on Friday. But Penny didn't pitch that day. Derek Lowe started for LA, with Brazoban and Gagne each contributing an inning, and Brian Meadows closing out the game, hurling three innings.

Suggests to me, Penny probably isn't a trade target. Could be Brazoban or Gagne, or more likely, a possible low-level deal involving Meadows. He used to be a starter for Florida, KC and Pittsburgh, but was converted to middle relief in 2003. He compiled a 4.58 ERA in 65 relief appearances for the Pirates last season, while his record over six years as a starter was 37-50, with a 5.40 ERA in 122 starts. Maybe the Reds are pursuing him as a possible swingman who could start in a crunch if someone in the rotation goes lame or falters.

Could be, of course, they are after Brazoban or Gagne to plug our gap at closer.

Otherwise, on Friday, the Dodgers only appeared to showcase one position player -- left-handed SS Oscar Robles, who was their top SS in '05, until getting displaced by Furcal. He's got a good glove, and is a fairly decent hitter (.272 average in '05), but has no pop (5 homeruns) and no speed on the basepaths (0 stolen bases vs. 8 caught stealing).

Maybe the big trade we have all been contemplating is something smaller in scope. What if neither Penny nor Larue is involved, but if the Reds are after Meadows and Robles and willing to trade Ross and/or Womack and, for the sake of argument, let's say Shackelford in return?

Then again, there could be a blockbuster in the works, with Larue heading out west and Gagne or Brazoban winging our way. It's hard to say in advance, although it does seem doubtful that we have Penny in our sights or else we'd be sending our scouts to the games when he was scheduled to start.

OnBaseMachine
03-26-2006, 02:31 AM
Penny pitched today, as did prospects Jonathon Broxton and Hong-Chih Kuo. I wonder if the scout was there again today?

Jmmclain, hearing anything new from your neighbor?

Ravenlord
03-26-2006, 02:35 AM
deleted. drunk and completely missed the subject matter.