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UPRedsFan
03-25-2006, 01:56 PM
Just heard Narron telling Marty that unless something happens he sees Burns making the team. Narron commented that he works quick and throws strikes.

So who's out? Wagner or Belisle? I have to believe Coffey makes it.

captainmorgan07
03-25-2006, 01:57 PM
gonna be a tough choice on who's out

Matt700wlw
03-25-2006, 02:20 PM
I'll go with Belisle being out.....he didn't do very well last night.

RedsManRick
03-25-2006, 02:39 PM
Anybody have the backstory and profile on Burns? He's a bit old to just be in his second season but his numbers throughout the minors are solid, especially since converting to a reliever. I'm guessing he was a college guy who got injured early, but don't really have any idea.

Still, 128 K's, 19 BB in 110 IP in AA & AAA in 2004 and 2005 is hard to ignore. Perhaps Belisle goes to Lousiville and goes back to starting?

If I can answer my own question -- or let Marc do it for me...

http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/SPT05/603080313/1027

harangatang
03-25-2006, 03:32 PM
Perhaps Belisle goes to Lousiville and goes back to starting?
You could be right about Belisle. I can see the Reds polishing him up to be a starter again and sending him out in a package for more pitching come July 31.

RedLegSuperStar
03-25-2006, 04:03 PM
Just heard Narron telling Marty that unless something happens he sees Burns making the team. Narron commented that he works quick and throws strikes.

So who's out? Wagner or Belisle? I have to believe Coffey makes it.

Or could the Reds offer the Braves a package of bullpen help for Thompson?

Kc61
03-25-2006, 08:59 PM
So, with Burns in, we have 5 arms for two spots. Coffey, Wagner, Shackelford, Robbins and Belisle.

And, with Wise hurt, we have (realistically) 4 reserves for 2 spots. McCracken, Cruz, Kata, and Ross (along with Aurilia, Freel, Valentin).

Does this sum it up, or are there others with a real chance?

reds44
03-25-2006, 09:01 PM
So we have 5 arms for two spots. Coffey, Wagner, Shackelford, Robbins and Belisle.

And we have (realistically) 4 reserves for 2 spots. McCracken, Cruz, Kata, and Ross (along with Aurilia, Freel, Valentin).

Does this sum it up, or are there others with a real chance?
After what Shack did last year I think he should be on the team.

You also forgot Wise.

UPRedsFan
03-25-2006, 09:08 PM
So, with Burns in, we have 5 arms for two spots. Coffey, Wagner, Shackelford, Robbins and Belisle.

And, with Wise hurt, we have (realistically) 4 reserves for 2 spots. McCracken, Cruz, Kata, and Ross (along with Aurilia, Freel, Valentin).

Does this sum it up, or are there others with a real chance?
This sums it up. I'll take Coffey and Wagner. And Ross and McCracken

Kc61
03-25-2006, 09:09 PM
Wise is hurt. Edited post makes this clear.

In a previous thread I thought Burns, Shack and Belisle would make it, with Wagner and Coffey starting in AAA. Right now, I tend to think Shack will start in AAA, no need for three lefty relievers, and he has had a spotty spring.
I agree that based on last year, he should stay with the Reds, but the numbers make this tough.

But as among Wagner, Coffey and Belisle, it is really hard to figure. I wouldn't be shocked to see Belisle included in any trade. Or he could go to AAA to become a starter again. On the other hand, both Wagner and Coffey are unfinished products who possibly can be at AAA for awhile. Really hard to pick from this group.

A trade or two could resolve this, although I wouldn't expect either Wagner or Coffey to be in a trade.

As for position players, I think McCracken has the best shot. That leaves the proverbial "25th man." Hard to see keeping Kata with all the middle infielders. Kata's only shot, it would seem, is if Womack or Freel go in a trade.

Choice for last guy,then, is Cruz as LH pinch hitter, or Ross leaving Valentin as pinch hitter and backup first baseman. I tend to agree with prior poster that Ross will make it, Valentin then pinch hits and plays first base and catcher. But who knows.

minus5
03-25-2006, 09:27 PM
Anybody have the backstory and profile on Burns? He's a bit old to just be in his second season
http://news.cincypost.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060308/SPT05/603080313/1027


This is all I could find on Burns...he is a bit old

Heath
03-25-2006, 09:40 PM
I don't see Kata going anywhere but Louisville because he has options.

I would think that Coffey & Belisle stays and Wagner goes to Louisville with Shack.

I would also think that those roles could be reversed if April starts off slow.

Superdude
03-26-2006, 12:58 AM
I can't see belisle not making it. He was solid last year, is young, and actually has the stuff to be a good pitcher. I'd cry if he went to Lousville and Rick White made the bullpen.

jnwohio
03-26-2006, 01:04 AM
I don't see Kata going anywhere but Louisville because he has options.


Are you certain abut this? I thought the reason he was on waivers was becasue he was out of options.

Danny Serafini
03-26-2006, 01:18 AM
Are you certain abut this? I thought the reason he was on waivers was becasue he was out of options.

According to the Reds press notes the following players on the 40 man roster have options remaining:

Pitchers:
Belisle
Burns
Chick
Coffey
Dumatrait
Germano
Gosling
Hammond
Harang
Mercker
Milton
Ramirez
Shackelford
Wagner
White
Williams

Catcher:
Perez

Infielders:
Aurilia
Bergolla
Encarnacion
Kata
Olmedo
Votto
Womack

Outfielders:
Denorfia
Dunn
Griffey
Kearns

And before anyone gets clever, a player with 5 years Major League experience can't be optioned down without his consent, so don't think your favorite whipping boy can just be banished to Louisville!

wally post
03-26-2006, 04:01 AM
you rock Danny!

jmcclain19
03-26-2006, 04:03 AM
I don't see what everyone is set that Kata makes the club because the Reds just picked him up.

All Krivsky said was he wanted to give Narron "options".

If those "options" don't include Kata on the big league club, i'm sure they will send him packing - with a potential invite to Louisville.

KronoRed
03-26-2006, 05:05 AM
Good avatar JM ;)

redsmetz
03-26-2006, 09:40 AM
Just heard Narron telling Marty that unless something happens he sees Burns making the team. Narron commented that he works quick and throws strikes.

So who's out? Wagner or Belisle? I have to believe Coffey makes it.

I continue to believe that Wagner will be in Louisville this year. While Narron spoke well in this morning's Enquirer about him, I just think some additional seasoning in AAA will do this kid some good given how his progress was short-circuited in putting him at the ML level in his first pro year. I think Wagner becomes a better pitcher going where he can have considerable success and continue to develop.

fourrunhomer
03-26-2006, 10:43 AM
I'm thinking we got Ross to allow for a trade of Larue,one of the old relievers,and possibly one of the middle IFs for another starting pitcher or possibly a closer (I prefer a starter). Larue would be the the centerpiece. This would open a spot for one more of the young relievers, clear the logjam at 2nd, improve the rotation, and make sense of the trade for Ross. Does anyone else believe that getting ross was setting the table for a trade?

LawFive
03-26-2006, 11:36 AM
The way the SP's typically perform, the Reds need a long man from the pen at least once each time around. If Belisle dosen't make it, who's in that role? There really isn't anyone else on the projected list who would routinely go more than 2 innings.

NewEraReds
03-26-2006, 01:57 PM
I continue to believe that Wagner will be in Louisville this year. While Narron spoke well in this morning's Enquirer about him, I just think some additional seasoning in AAA will do this kid some good given how his progress was short-circuited in putting him at the ML level in his first pro year. I think Wagner becomes a better pitcher going where he can have considerable success and continue to develop.
i agree. and i think belisle stays. i love his stuff. he was throwing 94 the last st game i saw. him and coffey should stay

Jpup
03-26-2006, 03:06 PM
i agree. and i think belisle stays. i love his stuff. he was throwing 94 the last st game i saw. him and coffey should stay

why should Coffey stay? 84 hits in 58 innings in 2005 to go along with only 26 Ks(k/9 4.03). WHIP was 1.64. OPSa was .873.

Todd Coffey is the kind of pitcher the Reds do not need.

Coffey 2005
k/9 4.03
WHIP 1.63
OPSa .873

Shackleford 2005
k/9 5.16
WHIP 1.01
OPSa .613

Wagner 2005
k/9 7.69
WHIP 1.60
OPSa .805

Belisle 2005
k/9 6.20
WHIP 1.48
OPSa .797

It looks like Coffey is the worse of the bunch to me. I think that Belisle and Shackleford should be on the team.

Rotation
Harang
Arroyo
Claussen
Milton
Williams

Bullpen
Belisle
Shackleford
Weathers
Mercker
Burns
Hammond
White

FeartheEars
03-26-2006, 03:49 PM
Why does White stay? Where's he grade out in terms of scrappiness. It's a shame Wagner and Coffey have too good of stuff to be termed scrappy. Coffey was only a rookie last year right or am I thinking Belisle? I think the three, Wagner, Belisle, and Coffey should be given every chance to go out and learn from the scrappy veterans Mercker, Hammond, and Weathers.

Jpup
03-26-2006, 03:52 PM
Why does White stay? Where's he grade out in terms of scrappiness. It's a shame Wagner and Coffey have too good of stuff to be termed scrappy. Coffey was only a rookie last year right or am I thinking Belisle? I think the three, Wagner, Belisle, and Coffey should be given every chance to go out and learn from the scrappy veterans Mercker, Hammond, and Weathers.

White "brings a veteran presence."

flyer85
03-26-2006, 03:57 PM
White "brings a veteran presence."and well established suckitude

Jpup
03-26-2006, 03:57 PM
and well established suckitude

"the human batting cage."

tbball10
03-27-2006, 08:55 AM
i think rick white should be released

Danny Serafini
03-27-2006, 10:15 AM
Guaranteed money means Rick White stays.

savafan
03-27-2006, 10:50 AM
I'd cut Rick White in a heartbeat. The Cardinals just released Jeff Nelson, and he'd be an upgrade in the bullpen over White.