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View Full Version : Looking back, did DanO "win" any of his moves?



REDREAD
03-29-2006, 09:24 AM
I was thinking back on DanO's trades, and I was wondering if he won any of them.

It's obvious now that DanO lost big on the Reitsma trade.

I think now we can safely say that he got ripped off on the two Philly trades he made where he sent Lidle and Jones there. Hancock is gone. Machado is a bust. Elizardo Rameriz is not going to be a major league pitcher. I think we got two other prospects still in the system from those trades. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're really on the radar. In any event, Philly got two pitchers for the pennant drive from us for nothing. Heck, Lidle turned into a long term solution for them.

I guess we'll need two more years so see how the Randa for Geranamo-Chick deal turns out. I'm really not that excited about Geranamo. Maybe Chick will end up being a decent bullpen arm. Too soon to call this a win or a loss.

Mosely for Ortiz -- Considering how much Ortiz was paid and the performance he gave us, it's hard for me to call this a "win". Maybe we can call it a push, since Mosely didn't do anything either.

I think the consensus here is that Womack was a bad trade :laugh:

Am I leaving anything out? If so it's not intentional.

I mean, it's absolutely amazing that a GM could potentially not win a single trade in 3 years (or however long we was here). He did ok on a few FAs (Mercker, Weathers, Randa, and although some disagree I'll include Aurillia as well).. But considering the relative amount of money he spent on FAs, his batting average is pretty poor there too.

IslandRed
03-29-2006, 09:34 AM
I don't know that any trade was a real win. Now, I'll cut some slack on the Jones, Lidle and Randa type deals. Trading away a journeyman rent-a-player at the deadline is a classic low-risk, low-reward scenario; most players acquired in those types of deals never turn out to be anything.

To me, the biggest indictment of O'Brien was how few deals he made, given the teams' needs and unwieldy roster construction. The situation called for an active approach, not a passive one. Of course, given his track record, I guess we can be thankful for the damage not done.

redsmetz
03-29-2006, 09:41 AM
I think the Randa and Aurillia signings were his best, although I think Aurillia was badly handled and made for bad chemistry. The Womack trade is bad simply because it was so completely unnecessary. We had no need whatsoever for what he once was and, I agree, it's questionable whether he will ever be that again. I think a Yankee fan summed it up nicely when they asked about the players they received, "Are they breathing? Not that that is a deal breaker." . I'm not sure his drafts have been that great either and stocking the farm system was despicable and that was supposedly his strong suit. I think he will live in history as an abject failure.

joe

TRF
03-29-2006, 09:59 AM
I think Javon Moran was one of the players in one of the Philly trades. I like him a lot, and think he's going to make the biggest trides this year. Great speed hits for average and has a good OBP to go along with it. no power, but he seems like he could be a very good leadoff hitter.

Until Bong washes out, I'll hold out on calling a trade for a middle reliever a HUGE bust. I also think the Reds should have kept Nelson. I like both the Lizard and German, though I think they are the same pitcher. Lizard needs some oomph, but has great control. Germano is the same, both need to learn when to NOT throw a strike ie expand the zone.

However, he did have the cajones to DFA Jimenez and Graves. I think he DFA'd Jimmy Haynes too. I also liked the way he handled Kearns last year. I notice there are no threads about his weight this spring.

To me, his 2005 Draft was outstanding. His first 4 picks all seem like legit prospects that could make the majors within the next 3 years. Some even sooner (LeCure).

DanO wasn't devoid of good qualities, but he just didn't have enough to make him a good GM.

westofyou
03-29-2006, 10:45 AM
Looking back, did DanO "win" any of his moves?

Just the first one.

The con he sold to Carl that he could turn the franchise around.

Chip R
03-29-2006, 10:50 AM
I heard that he won a game of Tetris once.

Krusty
03-29-2006, 10:53 AM
O'Brien was definitely the anti-Bowden.

paulrichjr
03-29-2006, 11:00 AM
I think Javon Moran was one of the players in one of the Philly trades. I like him a lot, and think he's going to make the biggest trides this year. Great speed hits for average and has a good OBP to go along with it. no power, but he seems like he could be a very good leadoff hitter.

Until Bong washes out, I'll hold out on calling a trade for a middle reliever a HUGE bust. I also think the Reds should have kept Nelson. I like both the Lizard and German, though I think they are the same pitcher. Lizard needs some oomph, but has great control. Germano is the same, both need to learn when to NOT throw a strike ie expand the zone.

However, he did have the cajones to DFA Jimenez and Graves. I think he DFA'd Jimmy Haynes too. I also liked the way he handled Kearns last year. I notice there are no threads about his weight this spring.

To me, his 2005 Draft was outstanding. His first 4 picks all seem like legit prospects that could make the majors within the next 3 years. Some even sooner (LeCure).

DanO wasn't devoid of good qualities, but he just didn't have enough to make him a good GM.

I agree with the draft stuff. He did make a couple of good moves signing guys like Randa. Some of the guys that he drafted could be showing up in a couple of years and could certainly make major impacts. One thing about DanO was that he stuck with what his plan was which was to get better through the draft. That was his long-term goal and he stuck with it. Was that good? No. Not if you want fans for the next 5 years. I just think he sold Carl on the need to develop using the farm and seemed to forget about 2004 and 2005.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 11:37 AM
I think the Cory Lidle Trade was a good one. Elizardo and Javon Moran for a guy with a 5.32 era. Ramirez and Moran are both still young (both are 23 I believe). Ramirez was in the top 10 in the international league ERA last year. Moran hit .353 in Sarasota and .301 in Chattanooga last year.

The Randa signing was good, as was the trade of him.

Rich Aurilia signing was a good one. It wasnt hit fault Miley gave him a job over FeLo, but after he came back from his injury, he performed well, especially at the plate.

His 2005 draft appears to be very good, although it may be a little early to tell. There are quite a few guys to keep your eyes on from that class though....and you cant say that about many Reds drafts since 98.

All that said, I think Obrien had a lot of help in both making certain deals(Milton) and not making some deals (Casey and Wilson) from Carl.

TRF
03-29-2006, 11:41 AM
The Randa signing was awful. Freel could have handled 3B until EE arrived, but flipping him for Chick and Germano was ok.

Don't get me started on RA. blech. blech squared.

TRF
03-29-2006, 11:42 AM
Hey EX BRAVEDAD, How is Bubba doing in SD? are they assigning him to AAA?

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 11:46 AM
TRF, the guy hit .343 with RISP last season, .282 overall. How is that an awful signing?

westofyou
03-29-2006, 11:53 AM
TRF, the guy hit .343 with RISP last season, .282 overall. How is that an awful signing?
Use the search function, that argument as been around more than Paris Hilton.

marcshoe
03-29-2006, 11:57 AM
Rich Aurilia signing was a good one. It wasnt hit fault Miley gave him a job over FeLo, but after he came back from his injury, he performed well, especially at the plate.


No one is blaming Aurilia for the signing; they're blaming O'Brien. And he does share the responsibility for Aurilia's playing over FeLo.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:01 PM
WOY, I am sure it has been around a lot, becuase its a good arguement. for $600,000 you got .282, 14 and 68 RBI.

TRF
03-29-2006, 12:03 PM
and a month of him being a statue at SS while a far better player rode the pine, and his home/rode splits are abysmal.

BRM
03-29-2006, 12:04 PM
WOY, I am sure it has been around a lot, becuase its a good arguement. for $600,000 you got .282, 14 and 68 RBI.

You also got horrible road numbers, a weak glove with no range and no speed. Throw in the constant complaints about playing time and it's easy to see why people weren't happy with his signing, last year or this year.

westofyou
03-29-2006, 12:04 PM
WOY, I am sure it has been around a lot, becuase its a good arguement. for $600,000 you got .282, 14 and 68 RBI.
Oh boy!!!!! Batting avereage and counting stats.

How about those ballpark splits, On Base percentage and fielding and speed?

That said.. I'm not getting into this game of pong again.

BRM
03-29-2006, 12:05 PM
That said.. I'm not getting into this game of pong again.

Pong hater!! :p:

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:05 PM
TRF, Aurilia didnt fill out the lineup card. For the entire season, Aurilia produced, especially for the price.
Did he take time away from FeLo? Yes. Blame that on the manager. It was his idiocy that filled out the lineup card every day.

SteelSD
03-29-2006, 12:11 PM
TRF, Aurilia didnt fill out the lineup card. For the entire season, Aurilia produced, especially for the price.
Did he take time away from FeLo? Yes. Blame that on the manager. It was his idiocy that filled out the lineup card every day.

Managers and General Managers do not work independently of each other. GM's have say in who takes the field. Managers do not have free reign to be stupid.

BRM
03-29-2006, 12:11 PM
For the entire season, Aurilia produced, especially for the price.


At home, offensively. He was horrible in the field and he couldn't hit his weight on the road. His .621 road OPS was atrocious. That's Juan Castro without the glove.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:11 PM
OBP was .338, not good, but not horrid. His range wasnt good. Speed? You going to use that arguement against Dunn? He has no speed either. Away from GABP, he sucked. At GABP he was very very good. .332/.380/.561.

Heck, at home the guy hit .426/.448/.738 at home with RISP. for $600,000 I will take that and not gripe about it.

paulrichjr
03-29-2006, 12:12 PM
Said earlier in another thread by me but Valentin signing might be his best move.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:13 PM
Managers and General Managers do not work independently of each other. GM's have say in who takes the field. Managers do not have free reign to be stupid.

Guess that is true. I still dont take it as a bad signing though. We can agree to disagree about it.

TeamSelig
03-29-2006, 12:14 PM
Didn't fill out the lineup card? You could argue that his constant complaining persuaded our ignorant manager into playing him alot. Either way, it was an OK signing, if we had a real manager. Would have been even better if we could have flipped him for a decent prospect or two.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:17 PM
Teamselig, that may be true....of course a real manager would have said something to him. Instead, we had Dave Miley. Would have been nice for us to be able to flip him for something though.

TRF
03-29-2006, 12:17 PM
OBP was .338, not good, but not horrid. His range wasnt good. Speed? You going to use that arguement against Dunn? He has no speed either. Away from GABP, he sucked. At GABP he was very very good. .332/.380/.561.

Heck, at home the guy hit .426/.448/.738 at home with RISP. for $600,000 I will take that and not gripe about it.

Actually, Dunn has speed. Surprising speed for a guy his size.

But woy is right. Do a search on this site about RA and you'll see plenty of info on why it was a bad signing. Especially since he was a non roster invitee basically handed the SS job despite being out played by FeLo the year before and in the spring.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 12:20 PM
TRF we are going to just disagree on this one.

I dont need someone elses opinion on why it was a bad signing or why it wasnt. I can look at the numbers myself and determine how i feel about it.

SteelSD
03-29-2006, 12:24 PM
Guess that is true. I still dont take it as a bad signing though. We can agree to disagree about it.

I didn't feel it was a bad signing at the time as I figured we'd get something near MLB average offense as a true backup who might be able to mentor the kids.

Problem is that some signings get worse as playing time increases. Couple that with baseballs flying by him in the field and the fact that Aurilia was quite obviously not a mentor type and the signing kept getting worse and worse contextually.

Doc. Scott
03-29-2006, 12:31 PM
However, he did have the cajones to DFA Jimenez and Graves. I think he DFA'd Jimmy Haynes too. I also liked the way he handled Kearns last year. I notice there are no threads about his weight this spring.


Uh, he DFA'd Jimenez after paying him $2.6MM in arbitration over the objections of his staff.

Haynes wasn't his fault, and the guy was pitching so badly Bubbles the chimp would have made that move.

Graves... someone had to be the fall guy after the team put together such a sorry April. Right place, right time.

savafan
03-29-2006, 12:32 PM
I think he won when he released Jimmy Haynes. Again when he released Danny Graves.

He got Gabe White from the Yankees for Charlie Manning.

Other than that, I'd agree that signing Valentin was his best move.

TRF
03-29-2006, 12:39 PM
TRF we are going to just disagree on this one.

I dont need someone elses opinion on why it was a bad signing or why it wasnt. I can look at the numbers myself and determine how i feel about it.

Well you stated your opinion and asked why. Since we did this already a year ago, some of us probably don't want to do it again. Hence the search feature.

But since you asked, this is why it was a bad signing IMO:

RA coupled with 3-4 more bad signings; Randa, Ortiz, Weber, and Milton (BTW to be fair, I thought Milton was an ok signing until i heard the dollar amount. I also was hoping it wasn't the key signing. turns out sadly it was.) cost the Reds a better starting pitcher. And there were a few on the market, not many, but a few.

RA took AB's from Freel, and FeLo. He even took some AB's from EE. He's an old player with old man skills. He was a disruption in the media and complained about his PT while stinking up the joint. If he had accepted a role as a bench player, that would have been OK. He didn't and whined weekly.

RA had a ripple effect that was easily measured. he had no range, so he made the pitching staff look worse when he was in at SS. He had better range at 2B, but still wasn't any great shakes. He slowed development of what turned out to be the BEST offensive SS in the NL last year, and took away some AB's from what could be the next great offensive 3B too. He might still do that this year. RA can't touch EE's range or glove either.

Most of all RA was a bad signing because he wasn't needed. plain and simple. Just like the smokescreen that was the reds needing a 3B last year, it distracted from the real need: pitching.

TRF
03-29-2006, 12:40 PM
Uh, he DFA'd Jimenez after paying him $2.6MM in arbitration over the objections of his staff.

I had forgotten that.

Well, at least he realized his mistake. :laugh:

RedsManRick
03-29-2006, 01:00 PM
The backlash against counting stats bugs me quite a bit. There IS value in counting stats. They tell you precisely what a player has done. Whether you like him or not, Rich Aurilia drove in 68 runs last year. He converted RBI opporunties as a very good rate. He was a solid contributor in that respect.

However, what has to be understood by all parties, is that certain stats reflect skills which can be repeated and projected, and certain stats merely reflect how those skills played out in a certain context. RBI shows you what a player did in the past, but says very little (compared to other stats) about what he's going to do tomorrow.

That is the whole underlying concept stat-heads work under. Perhaps a pitcher's statistics make this point more evident. If you were trying to guess what a pitcher's ERA is going to be in 2006, his 2005 WHIP and K/9 are actually better indicators of his 2006 ERA than his 2005 ERA. I know it is counter-intuitive for some, but it's true. That's because WHIP and K/9 tells us more about how well the pitcher does the things which lead to his ERA (allowing baserunners) than the ERA itself does.

ERA is like batting average. In the case of batting average, we should be looking at how often he makes contact with the ball, and how often he hits the ball out of the field of play (HR) if we want to predict his future batting average --- not what his batting average was last year.

Rich Aurilia could come in this year and hit .300 in the same number of ABs and only drive in 45 because of fewer opportunities, or simply getting his hits at different times. Analysis has shown that there is basically no skill (or only a VERY minor skill) which lets people consistently perform better in clutch situations. This doesn't mean people haven't performed better in the clutch -- surely they have, it just means that they were lucky to have their normal likelihood (their 3 hits in 10 at bats for example) to occur when it helped the team the most. That is, people may have been clutch in the past, but they aren't clutch in and of themselves and we shouldn't expect them necessarily to be clutch in the future.

Bringing it all back, Aurilia may have been a very good contributor last year, but all of the things which suggest how he'll do this year, suggest he won't be a very valuable member of the team. The exact same thing could've been said regarding Eric Milton in 2004 when certain management people kept bringing up his win totals as evidence that he was a good pitcher.

westofyou
03-29-2006, 02:00 PM
There IS value in counting stats. Of corse there is, as long as you don't ignore the rate stats to boost your opinion of player based on counting stats.

Otherwise Joe Carter would be a first ballot HOF player.

ochre
03-29-2006, 02:32 PM
lest we forget, RA was anything but impressive in his first 2 months last year. Of couse those should have been months from the bench, but he was starting.



AB AVG OBP SLG OPS
April 67 .224 .268 .373 .641
May 37 .135 .132 .270 .402

Raisor
03-29-2006, 03:43 PM
I dont need someone elses opinion on why it was a bad signing or why it wasnt. I can look at the numbers myself and determine how i feel about it.


Boy you're on the wrong message board then.

dougdirt
03-29-2006, 04:37 PM
Ha! Raisor thats alright. I enjoy it here alot more often than I dont. Lots of good guys on here, even if I disagree with them about stuff.

After May though, he posted good numbers.



G AB OBP SLG AVG
June 20 69 .418 .551 .348
July 23 89 .340 .506 .281
Aug 21 80 .348 .413 .288
Sept 23 84 .398 .452 .333

TRF
03-29-2006, 04:44 PM
Ha! Raisor thats alright. I enjoy it here alot more often than I dont. Lots of good guys on here, even if I disagree with them about stuff.

After May though, he posted good numbers.



G AB OBP SLG AVG
June 20 69 .418 .551 .348
July 23 89 .340 .506 .281
Aug 21 80 .348 .413 .288
Sept 23 84 .398 .452 .333


and manned 2B with the aplomb of a pregnant camel in a forest fire.

man i wish i could take credit for that line.

REDREAD
03-31-2006, 01:39 PM
Just the first one.

The con he sold to Carl that he could turn the franchise around.

:laugh: That's true, that con made him a couple million dollars.

It's sad, but it's almost as if he didn't even try once he got that nice 3 year deal. Definitely the laziest GM we ever had. I'll always remember him that day one of our pitchers was getting hit hard in Houston and they showed DanO on TV, laughing his rear end off with his Houston buddies. That pretty much symbolized his whole approach to his job..

KronoRed
03-31-2006, 02:24 PM
Don't forget.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v408/Kronosb/1.jpg

savafan
04-24-2006, 02:14 AM
I now think it is safe to say no. I've never seen a worse general manager. He didn't get one trade right.

-Traded Chris Reitsma to the Atlanta Braves. Received Jung Bong and Bubba Nelson.

That worked out well. Reitsma is the Braves' closer, while the Reds don't have one and Nelson is now in the Padres organization (?) and Bong is a frequently injured AAAA pitcher who will probably never get another shot with the Reds.

-Released Ryan Dempster.

Closing and doing well for the Cubs.

-Signed Todd Van Poppel as a free agent.

Throw some gasoline on that fire why don't ya?

-Signed Cory Lidle as a free agent.

A 5.32 ERA and a 1.436 WHIP while with the Reds before going on to being a decently serviceable pitcher for the Phillies.

-Signed Javier Valentin as a free agent.

I swear, this could only have happened on accident.

-Signed Luke Prokopec as a free agent.

Never even appeared in a game for the Reds.

-Signed John Vander Wal as a free agent.

Went 6 for 51 in a Reds uniform before retiring.

-Signed Jesus Sanchez as a free agent.

That 7.53 ERA looked real nice. In his defense, it was better than the 9.00 ERA he had the year before in Colorado.

-Signed Mike Matthews as a free agent.

Waste of bullpen bench space.

-Signed Todd Jones as a free agent.

This is another one where DanO just got lucky.

-Traded Todd Jones and Brad Correll (minors) to the Philadelphia Phillies. Received Josh Hancock and Andy Machado.

Ah yes, the saviors.

-Traded Cory Lidle to the Philadelphia Phillies. Received a player to be named later, Javon Moran (minors), and Joe Wilson (minors). The Philadelphia Phillies sent Elizardo Ramirez (August 11, 2004) to the Cincinnati Reds to complete the trade.

-Signed Randy Keisler as a free agent.

I believe it was DanO's intent to collect an entire pitching staff of guys with 6+ ERAs

-Signed Paul Wilson as a free agent.

The frayed elbow Paul Wilson, knowingly damaged, brilliant!

-Traded Dustin Moseley (minors) to the Anaheim Angels. Received Ramon Ortiz.

*sigh

-Signed Dave Weathers as a free agent.

okay

-Signed Ben Weber as a free agent.

Negates the Weathers signing.

-Signed Kent Mercker as a free agent.

not bad

-Signed Joe Randa as a free agent.

Confused by this at first, but I'll see how DanO plays it.

-Signed Eric Milton as a free agent.

You know his story.

-Signed Luis Lopez as a free agent.

Not sure why this is even worth mentioning.

-Signed Rich Aurilia as a free agent.

I'm okay with this now, but not the way it began.

-Traded Joe Randa to San Diego for Travis Chick and Justin Germano.

Jury's still out.

-Traded Sean Casey to Pittsburgh for Dave Williams

The final sign of his cluelessness.

-Traded Kevin Howard and Ben Himes to New York Yankees for Tony Womack.

It feels like this was DanO's parting "screw you" statement to Reds fans.



Moran, Chick and Germano may still workout for the Reds, but overall, it's hard to find a winning move, save perhaps signing Mercker, Weathers and Valentin.

StRedlegs900
04-24-2006, 03:12 AM
On the whole RA thing: I didn't like him that much last year, and expected him to be gone this year, but I'm actually liking him this year. If you look at how he has played at 1B compared to how Hatteberg has played, he may have found a position that fits. You don't need as much range (and although he is older and slower, his bad range at SS and 2B is still more than enough for 1B), and he is still hitting incredibly well with RISP.

It almost seems like everytime he comes up with a man on 2nd, he either gets a hit, or gets robbed of one by some great defensive play. His defense is pretty solid, and he has caught pretty much everything near him at 1st. Hatteberg, on the other hand, has dropped foul balls, misplayed balls in the dirt, run straight into our catcher, and just looked plain awkward at times. Hatteberg has hit decently when he's been in, but nothing like RA has, and RA's defense has been much better. I think we keep RA at first, and use Hatteberg very sparingly. But, that's just me. I'm definitley not as knowledgable as most of the people on here. Just go by what I've seen (and I've seen most of the games this year).

Highlifeman21
04-24-2006, 09:18 AM
I was thinking back on DanO's trades, and I was wondering if he won any of them.

It's obvious now that DanO lost big on the Reitsma trade.

I think now we can safely say that he got ripped off on the two Philly trades he made where he sent Lidle and Jones there. Hancock is gone. Machado is a bust. Elizardo Rameriz is not going to be a major league pitcher. I think we got two other prospects still in the system from those trades. Correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think they're really on the radar. In any event, Philly got two pitchers for the pennant drive from us for nothing. Heck, Lidle turned into a long term solution for them.

I guess we'll need two more years so see how the Randa for Geranamo-Chick deal turns out. I'm really not that excited about Geranamo. Maybe Chick will end up being a decent bullpen arm. Too soon to call this a win or a loss.

Mosely for Ortiz -- Considering how much Ortiz was paid and the performance he gave us, it's hard for me to call this a "win". Maybe we can call it a push, since Mosely didn't do anything either.

I think the consensus here is that Womack was a bad trade :laugh:

Am I leaving anything out? If so it's not intentional.

I mean, it's absolutely amazing that a GM could potentially not win a single trade in 3 years (or however long we was here). He did ok on a few FAs (Mercker, Weathers, Randa, and although some disagree I'll include Aurillia as well).. But considering the relative amount of money he spent on FAs, his batting average is pretty poor there too.


But how was his BA w/ RISP? Did Marty hate him for that as well?

dougdirt
04-24-2006, 01:34 PM
Savafan, you are saying no he didnt win any of his moves.....but have that list * by saying there were good moves, just they were negated. As for Obriens good moves, I will just say to look at the prospects we have now compared to what we had when he came in.

ochre
04-24-2006, 01:55 PM
Savafan, you are saying no he didnt win any of his moves.....but have that list * by saying there were good moves, just they were negated. As for Obriens good moves, I will just say to look at the prospects we have now compared to what we had when he came in.
For the most part they are the same guys with different names. I've yet to see a Dunn, Kearns, Encarnacion, or even Pena type amongst them. Sure a couple of them could blossom into that, but low A is low A. Gardner, Basham, Pauly and some of the others were just as prime as the current crop at one point in their prospectage.

redsfanmia
04-24-2006, 04:23 PM
DanO was just in over his head, hey it happens sometimes people interview well or bring in binders about how to save money and get a job that they are not qualified for. DanO did draft pretty well, Homer Bailey and Jay Bruce seem like bonifide prospects. DanO was just not General Manager material. Some guys are coaches some guys are managers its just a fact of life. The only thing that makes me wonder is where would the Reds be had they hired Wayne Krivsky instead of Dano?

M2
04-24-2006, 04:31 PM
I love listening to folks say how obvious it was that DanO had no clue now that he's gone. We literally spent over two years on this board debating the issue and hearing people time and again defend moves he made that seemed sure atrocities from the moment he made them.

Here's my question for all those to whom it's now evident that DanO was a galloping disaster as a GM, if the Reds hire another DanO in the future would you be able to spot it early this time around?

membengal
04-24-2006, 04:42 PM
I love listening to folks say how obvious it was that DanO had no clue now that he's gone. We literally spent over two years on this board debating the issue and hearing people time and again defend moves he made that seemed sure atrocities from the moment he made them.

Here's my question for all those to whom it's now evident that DanO was a galloping disaster as a GM, if the Reds hire another DanO in the future would you be able to spot it early this time around?

It's official, the next time OB cons someone into giving him a GM job, M2 will be one of the very few people not to make his thank you list at his introduction press conference...

OldXOhio
04-24-2006, 05:23 PM
I love listening to folks say how obvious it was that DanO had no clue now that he's gone. We literally spent over two years on this board debating the issue and hearing people time and again defend moves he made that seemed sure atrocities from the moment he made them.

Here's my question for all those to whom it's now evident that DanO was a galloping disaster as a GM, if the Reds hire another DanO in the future would you be able to spot it early this time around?

I'll admit that I was one of those you're referencing, although I was more of the "wait and see" mentality, as opposed to those who were immediately singing the praises of what he was doing. Frankly, I likened his hiring to the final Larkin contract in that the wrong personnel made this decision. Nonetheless, I'm all for giving someone a chance before berating them as incapable and mindless. If you were to ask me to identify another DanO, I'm more keenly aware of incompetence thanks to Mr. O'Brien. Still, I'm not sure I could call him out immediately, as some on here like yourself have been able to do. Then again, such claims probably made it all the more interesting for you in the end.

REDREAD
04-25-2006, 12:29 PM
I love listening to folks say how obvious it was that DanO had no clue now that he's gone. We literally spent over two years on this board debating the issue and hearing people time and again defend moves he made that seemed sure atrocities from the moment he made them.

Here's my question for all those to whom it's now evident that DanO was a galloping disaster as a GM, if the Reds hire another DanO in the future would you be able to spot it early this time around?

I think a lot of people were so starved to have something to be hopeful about, it clouded their thinking. I hated the Reitsma trade on Day 1, but tricked myself into thinking maybe Milton wouldn't be horrible (for example).
Other people bought into DanO saying that Nelson and Bong were frontline starting pitching prospects (despite the fact that the Braves had moved them to the pen already).. It's understandable.. As a fan, you need something to hope for, and you want the move to work out badly. It's hard to be totally objective when you are emotionally invested in something, although you did a great job (based on what I recall).

On the other hand, there were some that were pretty quick to judge Wayne, because he didn't cut Womack the day he arrived, signed Hatteberg, or they didn't like the Arroyo-Pena trade (some people pretty much assumed Theo automatically screws over the Reds in any trade).