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Coffeybro
04-01-2006, 11:21 AM
Just to let you guys know. Wagner is on his way to the bats to start the season.
This is not an April fools joke. Also on the way to minor league camp are Cruz, McCraken, and Menechino

traderumor
04-01-2006, 11:25 AM
:angry: Very frustrating when you're hanging on to old farts with nothing left. The bright side is that perhaps his stunted growth from being brought up right after being drafted can be recovered. The down side is that the baloney "knows how to play the game" is giving other guys jobs over someone with more talent and capable of outperforming the geriatrics.

pedro
04-01-2006, 11:29 AM
I'm not so sure I disagree with this move. I'd like to see Wagner have some success at Louisville before they call him back. He's been pretty bad the last couple of years.

Heath
04-01-2006, 11:31 AM
Well, Chris Denorfia. Welcome to Cincinnati to start the year anyway.

So much for Tony Womack getting relased.

traderumor
04-01-2006, 11:32 AM
I'm not so sure I disagree with this move. I'd like to see Wagner have some success at Louisville before they call him back. He's been pretty bad the last couple of years.I hear ya somewhat, I guess we'll see him soon enough when one of the old men flame out or someone like Burns doesn't pan out. Burns just looked like a younger version of Weathers when I saw him pitch in ST.

Reds Fanatic
04-01-2006, 11:33 AM
From Marc's blog here is what the opening roster is expected to be now.


Catchers (2) -- Valentin, Ross
Infielders (6) -- Aurilia, Encarnacion, Freel, Hatteberg, Lopez, Womack
Outfielders (5) -- Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, Denorfia, Abad
Pitchers (12) -- Arroyo, Belisle, Burns, Claussen, Coffey, Hammond, Harang, Mercker, Milton, Weathers, White, Williams

traderumor
04-01-2006, 11:34 AM
Well, Chris Denorfia. Welcome to Cincinnati to start the year anyway.

So much for Tony Womack getting relased.How many errors and bonehead plays does a veteran who knows how to play the game have to make before you send him packing, because he certainly had his share?

Heath
04-01-2006, 11:37 AM
How many errors and bonehead plays does a veteran who knows how to play the game have to make before you send him packing, because he certainly had his share?

As long as Tony Womack keeps hiding the pictures he has of Narron.

One good rookie year, and one AB in a World Series, a career doth not make. Overrated.

Speaking of wash-ups - Darrell May's been signed to a minor-league deal. A former Brave farmhand, he had a little success in Kansas City and got hit by a train in San Diego last year. He's a lefty with a large attitude, IIRC. He'll fit nicely next to Womack in the clubhouse. I would imagine that May will be in Louisville to start the year.

RedsManRick
04-01-2006, 12:01 PM
As soon as one of the old farts goes bust, Wagner comes right back up. This will give him a chance to close some games I imagine and get more regular work in.

flyer85
04-01-2006, 12:09 PM
Well, Chris Denorfia. Welcome to Cincinnati to start the year anyway.

So much for Tony Womack getting relased.Thet haven't finalized the opening day roster yet. We can still hope.

RANDY IN INDY
04-01-2006, 12:12 PM
A lot of folks are linking Wagner's failure to perform with the Reds with him being rushed to the big leagues, and yet still complain that he now is being sent to the minors for a little "seasoning." The current regime can't undo the harm that may have been done by rushing him, but you can't have it both ways. He sure has been a disappointment at the big league level, and his mechanics are probably, ultimately, going to lead to an early demise. Very "Scott Williamsonesque" but not quite as violent. From where I sit, now is the time to trade the kid, if there is something out there that can benefit the club. I don't see Wagner as a long term big leaguer unless he gets the mechanics straightened out, and he may never be able to do that.

Heath
04-01-2006, 12:16 PM
whoops

traderumor
04-01-2006, 12:27 PM
A lot of folks are linking Wagner's failure to perform with the Reds with him being rushed to the big leagues, and yet still complain that he now is being sent to the minors for a little "seasoning." The current regime can't undo the harm that may have been done by rushing him, but you can't have it both ways. He sure has been a disappointment at the big league level, and his mechanics are probably, ultimately, going to lead to an early demise. Very "Scott Williamsonesque" but not quite as violent. From where I sit, now is the time to trade the kid, if there is something out there that can benefit the club. I don't see Wagner as a long term big leaguer unless he gets the mechanics straightened out, and he may never be able to do that.

There is the possibility that he was rushed, but that is not necessarily a foregone conclusion. His primary problem has always been consistency, and then he turned out to have a bum wing last year. Also, there have been a lot of funky deliveries that also have not led to an early demise. Pitching is hard on any arm, and while I know there are some deliveries that are sure to lead to an injury, even guys with textbook mechanics can end up with a bum arm. Look at Prior, he has a nice drop and drive delivery and can't stay healthy.

The mixed feelings from me center around knowing that Wagner has shown the ability to get major league hitters out and that he is heading to the minors while a washed up never was in Rick White makes the team because he is a "proven veteran." Of course, what he has proven is that he was in the back of a bad Pittsburgh bullpen last year and he is a veteran, so I guess he does technically fit the bill.

As for trading him, the best he can be at this point is pot sweetener.

Sea Ray
04-01-2006, 12:42 PM
From Marc's blog here is what the opening roster is expected to be now:


Catchers (2) -- Valentin, Ross
Infielders (6) -- Aurilia, Encarnacion, Freel, Hatteberg, Lopez, Womack
Outfielders (5) -- Dunn, Griffey, Kearns, Denorfia, Abad
Pitchers (12) -- Arroyo, Belisle, Burns, Claussen, Coffey, Hammond, Harang, Mercker, Milton, Weathers, White, Williams




I wonder where this leaves Brian Buchanon? As of this morning's paper, he made the team. Supposedly they optioned Denorfia to AAA. Why these last minute changes? They knew Wise and McCracken were hurt. If Buchanon can't make the roster with the Spring he had plus the injuries to two outfielders, that doesn't bode well for his future in the major leagues. I hope they didn't burn "an option" on Denorfia over this. My bet is he will spend some time in Louisville this year but this indecision is puzzling.

I'm not a fan of 12 man pitching staffs either especially since our staff is supposed to consist of innings eaters.

flyer85
04-01-2006, 12:50 PM
Why these last minute changes?
because they are still trying to improve. I'm wagering they haven't told Abad he has the team made yet. I think they are still looking to improve and I wouldn't be surprised if they still have a couple of more changes in mind.

Doc. Scott
04-01-2006, 12:54 PM
You figure that McCracken's injury had something to do with Denorfia being called back, but why wouldn't they just DL Quinton? Makes me think the good thing- that Denorfia is making the team on merit.

flyer85
04-01-2006, 12:58 PM
You figure that McCracken's injury had something to do with Denorfia being called back, but why wouldn't they just DL Quinton? Makes me think the good thing- that Denorfia is making the team on merit.more because McCracken just isn't any good.

KronoRed
04-01-2006, 01:01 PM
Deno! a smart move finally.

KronoRed
04-01-2006, 01:01 PM
Player F will not be released till he goes 0-50.

knuckler
04-01-2006, 01:55 PM
You figure that McCracken's injury had something to do with Denorfia being called back, but why wouldn't they just DL Quinton? Makes me think the good thing- that Denorfia is making the team on merit.

Because they'd have to take someone off the 40-man to make room for McCracken, when he can be on Louisville's DL without having to make a move.

RANDY IN INDY
04-01-2006, 02:05 PM
Originally posted by traderumor: As for trading him, the best he can be at this point is pot sweetener.

And in the right deal, that would be a good thing.

Falls City Beer
04-01-2006, 02:33 PM
I'm all for trading Wagner.

I honestly don't care that his stock is reasonably low. I see him as a classic case of diminishing returns.

Always trade the hype surrounding a reliever. If he were a starter, I'd think differently.

pedro
04-01-2006, 02:39 PM
I'm all for trading Wagner.

I honestly don't care that his stock is reasonably low. I see him as a classic case of diminishing returns.

Always trade the hype surrounding a reliever. If he were a starter, I'd think differently.

I don't see him ever being that good anyway.

OnBaseMachine
04-01-2006, 02:42 PM
Package him in a deal for Shealy or Heilman.

Candy Cummings
04-01-2006, 05:03 PM
His stock is so low I can't imagine him being tradeable. At this point, the chance he becomes productive is proabaly higher than the change his replacement would be.

savafan
04-01-2006, 09:09 PM
http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&lastline=171784&id=4142

Mike Burns, who was informed before the game that he had won a spot on Cincinnati's rotation, gave up three runs and four hits in an inning against the Indians on Saturday.
Burns is rather effective against right-handers, but there's a good chance his problems versus lefties will prevent him from having a long career in the majors. The Reds would have been better off carrying Ryan Wagner.

Blimpie
04-01-2006, 09:14 PM
http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&lastline=171784&id=4142

Mike Burns, who was informed before the game that he had won a spot on Cincinnati's rotation, gave up three runs and four hits in an inning against the Indians on Saturday.
Burns is rather effective against right-handers, but there's a good chance his problems versus lefties will prevent him from having a long career in the majors. The Reds would have been better off carrying Ryan Wagner.Rotation? or bullpen?

Newport Red
04-01-2006, 09:39 PM
How many errors and bonehead plays does a veteran who knows how to play the game have to make before you send him packing, because he certainly had his share?

Maybe they are waiting for the perfect Bill Buckner moment on a grounder to second to release him as a message to the rest of the club.

One can only hope.

Chip R
04-01-2006, 11:28 PM
I know this may be giving the Reds too much credit, but perhaps they want him down in AAA to learn from Mario Soto. Maybe a change up or just things a guy like Soto could teach him.

Cedric
04-01-2006, 11:31 PM
What good would Wagner have done at this level? He wasn't going to suddenly start getting major league batters out. He's either gonna figure something out in Louisvile or he is gonna be another wasted pick.

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 12:03 AM
Rotation? or bullpen?
I'd prefer him to Dave Williams

Larkin411
04-02-2006, 05:24 PM
I still think Wagner could get better. Regardless, looking forward to maybe seeing him pitch against the Clippers.