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Retneprac
04-02-2006, 03:33 PM
From Marc:

Just returned from a quick trip to Great American Ball Park, where the boys are going through a workout and a lot of fellas in dark suits are wandering around, checking the place out. Hmmmm...

Here's the group Jerry Narron will run out there against Carlos Zambrano and the Cubbies tomorrow:

Tony Womack 2B
Felipe Lopez SS
Ken Griffey Jr. CF
Adam Dunn LF
Edwin Encarnacion 3B
Scott Hatteberg 1B
Austin Kearns RF
Javier Valentin C
Aaron Harang P

reds44
04-02-2006, 03:38 PM
All things considered I like the lineup. I wish Womack wasn't in it, but outside of that I don't have any problems with it.

flyer85
04-02-2006, 03:55 PM
we've heard lip service about defense all spring and that lineup without a doubt is a flat awful defensive group.

and as a kicker the reds have the worst offensive player in baseball leading off.

edabbs44
04-02-2006, 03:58 PM
I would switch Hatteberg and Kearns. Our three lefties (I don't count Womack, it doesn't matter lefty or righty against him) are within 4 spots of each other. If someone wants to bring in a lefty to face Griffey, then they also can stay in for Dunn, EE and Hatteberg. I think it is a mistake.

reds44
04-02-2006, 03:59 PM
we've heard lip service about defense all spring and that lineup without a doubt is a flat awful defensive group.

and as a kicker the reds have the worst offensive player in baseball leading off.
Guzman, Christian

VI_RedsFan
04-02-2006, 04:03 PM
I don't mind the lineup. I would switch Kearns and Hatteberg, but whatever. I know most of you don't, but I , for one, trust Narron.

redsfan30
04-02-2006, 04:06 PM
In my opinion, lineup quibbles can wait until Wednesday. Tomorrow is Opening Day and nothing can dampen my happiness about that.

VI_RedsFan
04-02-2006, 04:07 PM
In my opinion, lineup quibbles can wait until Wednesday. Tomorrow is Opening Day and nothing can dampen my happiness about that.

Well said, rf30.

Dunner44
04-02-2006, 04:07 PM
Tony Womack = puke

Opening day = joy

They about even out, so I only feel slightly queasy, but that might just be 'cause I'm giddy.

Cedric
04-02-2006, 04:15 PM
Jerry Narron=Puke

I'm thrilled for the season. Just can't believe that lineup is real.

Raisor
04-02-2006, 04:21 PM
When Womack was signed, some optimists said that he'd be a pinch runner and to "not worry about it".

Well, I'm officially worried about it.

blah blah blah blah blah

max venable
04-02-2006, 04:28 PM
Tony Womack 2B:barf:
Felipe Lopez SS:thumbup:
Ken Griffey Jr. CF:notworthy
Adam Dunn LF:beerme:
Edwin Encarnacion 3B:D
Scott Hatteberg 1B:rolleyes:
Austin Kearns RF:pray:
Javier Valentin C:)
Aaron Harang P:rockband:

pedro
04-02-2006, 04:29 PM
Well, let's just hope that when he plays himself out of the lineup, as I'm sure he will, the Reds pull the plug quickly.

Freel must be pretty down right now.

Cedric
04-02-2006, 04:31 PM
Freel is too valuable. He plays too hard.

Reds1
04-02-2006, 04:31 PM
The best part is seeing all the major regulars and no injuries. That's a key for any team and to start with everyone is fantastic. Not like a couple of years ago when Griffey didn't play opening day. I'm in the 2nd row and leaving early so I can see all the festivities and the President throw out the 1st pitch. I"m so excited.

Go Reds

captainmorgan07
04-02-2006, 04:51 PM
not a bad lineup i like everybody else would switch kearns and hatteburg but will see how everything goes

NatiRedGals
04-02-2006, 04:54 PM
Why dose everyone dislike Womack hes gonna help us out i believe guy has one bad year and its in new york where you get killed for it

GADawg
04-02-2006, 05:00 PM
ya know I like Freel over Womack myself but I can't help but wonder sometimes if most of y'all would be more upset if he plays bad or if he plays well. I think if the guy got off to a hot start that y'all would really be peeved.

Heath
04-02-2006, 05:02 PM
I hope Ryan in his disappointment doesn't pull a last year.

Change Womack with anyone, and I'm thrilled.

I hate starting the bottom of the first with an out.

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2006, 05:07 PM
Carlos Zambrano must be thrilled to know that he only has to record two outs in the first inning tomorrow.

Who is the worst hitter between Harang and Womack? It's a tossup.

pedro
04-02-2006, 05:20 PM
Hey, I hope Womack plays great. I'm just realistic enough to know that it is unlikely being that he's never really even had one good season in the majors.

Moving on, I too am happy about the overall team health, especially that of Griffey who really has hit well this spring.

I really would have preferred a situation in which Griffey moved to a corner OF position and someone else like Freel or Denofria played CF, but hopefully that will become a reality by 2007.

dsmith421
04-02-2006, 05:26 PM
Why dose everyone dislike Womack hes gonna help us out i believe guy has one bad year and its in new york where you get killed for it

Because he's the worst offensive player in baseball and our imbecile manager will give him 600 plate appearances.

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 05:27 PM
I was one player off, but I guess Dunn gets the 5 spot treatment againest lefties.

Just 1 "I TOLD YOU SO" that Womack was a starter no matter what, pinch runner back up my toe.

;)

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 05:28 PM
Why dose everyone dislike Womack hes gonna help us out i believe guy has one bad year and its in new york where you get killed for it
No, he's has ONE good year, and that was borderline, the rest of his career he's been awful.

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 05:28 PM
I really would have preferred a situation in which Griffey moved to a corner OF position and someone else like Freel or Denofria played CF, but hopefully that will become a reality by 2007.
That'll have to be another manager, Narron doesn't strike me as the one who will move a "vet" from his preferred spot.

reds44
04-02-2006, 05:32 PM
STOP

GRIFFEY ISN'T MOVING TO THE COF.

It's never gonna happen, it puts more wear on his legs there then it does CF. So just stop.

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 05:35 PM
Then he should be moved to 1st, he is a below avg CF now, and considering we have a below avg LF as well it's a recipe for disaster.

reds44
04-02-2006, 05:38 PM
Then he should be moved to 1st, he is a below avg CF now, and considering we have a below avg LF as well it's a recipe for disaster.
Ok then, but he isn't moving to LF or RF. 1B is much more realistic.

pedro
04-02-2006, 05:43 PM
STOP

GRIFFEY ISN'T MOVING TO THE COF.

It's never gonna happen, it puts more wear on his legs there then it does CF. So just stop.


That may be true, although I don't really buy it, but he has to move somewhere, because he doesn't have the range to play CF effectively anymore. Not many guys his age do.

Wouldn't you rather the Reds had a good defender in CF?

pedro
04-02-2006, 05:44 PM
Ok then, but he isn't moving to LF or RF. 1B is much more realistic.


Honestly, I think 1B might be harder on his legs than LF or RF. Lots of starting and stopping.

And from what I've read, 1B is the one position he has said he can't play b/c of his legs. I'm sure he'd prefer to stay in CF, but he;s a team guy, I'm sure he coudl be pursuaded if he really thought it was best for teh team and they ahd a good chance of winning if he did.

reds44
04-02-2006, 05:46 PM
That may be true, although I don't really buy it, but he has to move somewhere, because he doesn't have the range to play CF effectively anymore. Not many guys his age do.

Wouldn't you rather the Reds had a good defender in CF?
coughJOEY GATHRIGHTcough

Yes, trust me I love seeing those really speedy centerfielders like Gathright and Pierrem but Griffey isn't going to left or right. 1st base is more realistic although I doubt that happens either.


You could always trade for Gathright and put him in LF ala White Sox and Scott Podsednik. Him along with Kearns in right would make up for alot of room Griffey doesn't cover.

However the Dunn at 1st base thing didn't seem to work out.

reds44
04-02-2006, 05:47 PM
Honestly, I think 1B might be harder on his legs than LF or RF. Lots of starting and stopping.

And from what I've read, 1B is the one position he has said he can't play b/c of his legs. I'm sure he'd prefer to stay in CF, but he;s a team guy, I'm sure he coudl be pursuaded if he really thought it was best for teh team and they ahd a good chance of winning if he did.
Griffey playing CF isn't the reason why this team is losing.

pedro
04-02-2006, 05:55 PM
Griffey playing CF isn't the reason why this team is losing.


It isn't helping either. The Reds last year had the worst team defense of any team since the early 1970's (white sox I believe).

A top notch CF would certainly help the pitching staff.

The only guys in the lineup who are good defenders or have the potential to be are Kearns, Encarnacion, and arguably Larue.

Why are so certain that KG won't ever move to LF or RF? I know he's expressed his desire to stay in CF but I don't believe he ever said he wouldn't move.

puca
04-02-2006, 05:57 PM
I guess I really can't say how I feel about this lineup for fear of being accused of piling on. Lets just say that I thought nothing could dampen my spirits for opening day, but I was wrong. There is no excuse for this.

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2006, 06:36 PM
Cubs lineup, jersey notes

A couple of Reds have moved lower in the number ranks from spring training, as is the custom.

Andy Abad goes from 78 to 54

Dave Ross goes from 54 to 26

Bullpen coach Lee Tunnell goes from 22 to 43

Here's Dusty Baker's starting nine for tomorrow:

Juan Pierre CF
Todd Walker 2B
Derrek Lee 1B
Aramis Ramirez 3B
Jacque Jones RF
Michael Barrett C
Matt Murton LF
Ronny Cedeno SS
Carlos Zambrano P

Finally, not to get all Trent on you, but here's the umpire lineup:

HP Gerry Davis (crew chief)
1B Brian Gorman
2B Eric Cooper
3B Bill Miller

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Game thread? :D

DeadRedinCT
04-02-2006, 06:49 PM
Is this some kind of belated April Fools Day joke?

If not, I'll be hammered by 12pm. It's 5pm someplace on the planet.

WilyMo
04-02-2006, 06:59 PM
I don't understand the constant bashing of Womack. The guy isn't THAT bad. Give the dude a break.

Ravenlord
04-02-2006, 07:07 PM
I don't understand the constant bashing of Womack. The guy isn't THAT bad. Give the dude a break.
when your 36 and your career year still has you below average offensively, yes, you are that bad.

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2006, 07:20 PM
I don't understand the constant bashing of Womack. The guy isn't THAT bad. Give the dude a break.

He's only the worst player in baseball. He put up a .556 OPS last season, yes... he is THAT bad. ;)

flyer85
04-02-2006, 07:27 PM
He's only the worst player in baseball. He put up a .556 OPS last season, yes... he is THAT bad. ;)he makes up for it with poor defense

reds44
04-02-2006, 07:28 PM
Jesus people we get the point. He had a bad year last year, crap happens.

Cedric
04-02-2006, 07:28 PM
He's only the worst player in baseball. He put up a .556 OPS last season, yes... he is THAT bad. ;)

I agree that Womack is the worst player in baseball, but you seem to throw out ops in every thread as the definitive answer to a player's worth. It's not the end all stat for a players worth.

Ravenlord
04-02-2006, 07:29 PM
Jesus people we get the point. He had a bad year last year, sh!t happens.
and year before that, and year before that, and year before that, and year before that, and year before that. . .

GADawg
04-02-2006, 07:29 PM
I don't understand the constant bashing of Womack. The guy isn't THAT bad. Give the dude a break.
I can understand the bashing for the most part...I just can't understand it being constant...I mean there are dead horses all over Reds country breathing(if they could)a sigh of relief knowing someone else is taking the beating

Ravenlord
04-02-2006, 07:29 PM
I agree that Womack is the worst player in baseball, but you seem to throw out ops in every thread as the definitive answer to a player's worth. It's not the end all stat for a players worth.
no, but it's really easy shorthand without having to do a lot of work.

reds44
04-02-2006, 07:29 PM
and year before that, and year before that, and year before that, and year before that, and year before that. . .
If you want to call being an all-star a bad year.

Ravenlord
04-02-2006, 07:30 PM
If you want to call being an all-star a bad year.
i will when it comes attached to still not being a league average secondbasemen.

Cedric
04-02-2006, 07:30 PM
If you want to call being an all-star a bad year.

Hey, Mike Williams was an all-star two years ago I think.

Yachtzee
04-02-2006, 07:31 PM
I am psyched! For once, I am listening to WLW over XM in the house, not over a staticky car radio. And even though Alan Cutler is complaining about Aurilia not being in the lineup, I don't care. I just like listening to people talking about the Reds. They're talking about "Kegs and Eggs w/ Jim Scott", Andy Furman (meh), and the rest of the pre- and post-game festivities. Say what you will about the Sports Talk on WLW, Opening Day has a way of giving everything a beautiful glow.

I wish I could get away with skipping classes tomorrow, but the U. of Akron Law School has a pretty strict attendance policy. I assure you that as soon as I am out of school, I will be taking a few days off for Opening Day to take my son down for the parade and the game. Until then, it's XM radio on the way to school, Tivo the game, avoid any exposure to the game before I get home, then at 5 pm it's me and the TV.

For those of you going to the game, have fun and enjoy it. I hope to join you someday. For those of you following it on TV and on Redszone, have fun in the game thread. I will be struggling to pay attention in Corporations and Professional Responsibility, all the while thinking of Opening Day.

pedro
04-02-2006, 07:36 PM
Jesus people we get the point. He had a bad year last year, sh!t happens.

one bad year huh?

And frankly I don't think pointing out the obvious to people who continually fail to grasp it is piling on.




SEASON TEAM G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI BB SO SB CS AVG OBP SLG OPS
1993 Pit 15 24 5 2 0 0 0 0 3 3 2 0 .083 .185 .083 .268
1994 Pit 5 12 4 4 0 0 0 1 2 3 0 0 .333 .429 .333 .762
1996 Pit 17 30 11 10 3 1 0 7 6 1 2 0 .333 .459 .500 .959
1997 Pit 155 641 85 178 26 9 6 50 43 109 60 7 .278 .326 .374 .700
1998 Pit 159 655 85 185 26 7 3 45 38 94 58 8 .282 .319 .357 .676
1999 Ari 144 614 111 170 25 10 4 41 52 68 72 13 .277 .332 .370 .702
2000 Ari 146 617 95 167 21 14 7 57 30 74 45 11 .271 .307 .384 .691
2001 Ari 125 481 66 128 19 5 3 30 23 54 28 7 .266 .307 .345 .652
2002 Ari 153 590 90 160 23 5 5 57 46 80 29 12 .271 .325 .353 .678
2003 ChC 21 51 4 12 2 1 0 2 1 11 2 1 .235 .250 .314 .564
2003 Col 21 79 9 15 2 0 0 5 0 9 3 1 .190 .200 .215 .415
2003 Ari 61 219 30 52 10 3 2 15 8 27 8 3 .237 .270 .338 .608
2004 StL 145 553 91 170 22 3 5 38 36 60 26 5 .307 .349 .385 .734
2005 NYY 108 329 46 82 8 1 0 15 12 49 27 5 .249 .276 .280 .556
Total -- 1275 4895 732 1335 187 59 35 363 300 642 362 73 .273 .316 .356 .672

OnBaseMachine
04-02-2006, 07:40 PM
no, but it's really easy shorthand without having to do a lot of work.

Yup.


If you want to call being an all-star a bad year.

2004-.734 OPS=bad year. Yet another great All-Star choice by the fans. :rolleyes:

reds44
04-02-2006, 07:41 PM
After looking at those numbers and then looking at Freel's and even RA's last year, I will now shut up.

Wow Freel has a .371 OBP and 36 stolen bases.
RA hit .282. a .338 OBP, 14 homers and 68 RBIs.


I will now go away.

Ravenlord
04-02-2006, 07:41 PM
2004-.734 OPS=bad year. Yet another great All-Star choice by the fans. :rolleyes:
i thought McKeon picked him?

reds44
04-02-2006, 07:42 PM
i thought McKeon picked him?
No he was a starter.

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 07:59 PM
I will now say something I would never have said last year

I wish Rich Aurilia was starting

;)

James B.
04-02-2006, 08:25 PM
I think once you get through Lee and Ramirez the Cubs lineup is pretty weak. As for second base I think that Freel earned a role as an everyday player last year but I will wait and see before piling on Womack. I thought signing Aurilia last year was a mistake and was proved wrong.

Blimpie
04-02-2006, 08:38 PM
I will now say something I would never have said last year

I wish Rich Aurilia was starting

;)Okay, I am warning you--bring Krono back to his computer post haste and we promise we won't alert the authorities....You have 60 minutes to comply, or I swear I am getting the pepper spray.

Raisor
04-02-2006, 09:22 PM
I'd much rather have Aurillia starting then Womack, and I haver zero love for Aurillia as a starter. (Don't mind him at all as a backup).

The problem with having the Womacks, Hattebergs, and Aurillia's on the roster though is that they'll get playing time (far too much playing time if your manager is Jerry Narron it seems)

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 10:05 PM
Okay, I am warning you--bring Krono back to his computer post haste and we promise we won't alert the authorities....You have 60 minutes to comply, or I swear I am getting the pepper spray.
Krono is no more..we are KR :devil:

Yachtzee
04-02-2006, 10:07 PM
Krono is no more..we are KR :devil:

All your base are belong to us :alien:

Reds1
04-02-2006, 10:10 PM
I'll take a couple of those years in the late 90s or early 00s. Or I'll take either Freel or Aurillia starting at 2B. I think it sucks Womack got the nod. The good news is we don't need him to win lets just hope he doesn't lose for us. Hope we can get Zam out of the game early tomorrow. Then we can rake on their pen. I have Zam in fantasy. I don't want to rake too bad on it. LOL - Just kidding. I hope we get 10 in the 1st.

Go Reds

Heath
04-02-2006, 10:31 PM
The one all-star apperance was in 1997 for Womack - baseballreference.com doesn't have him listed as an all-star for 2004. The only reason he made it in 1997 was because he was a Pirate and he won it because he was the only Pirate selected and you HAVE to have a Pirate.

Tony Womack had one great AB. Period. It also just happened to be Game 7 of the World Series.

One AB a career doth not make.

Also - if this qualifies beating a dead horse, I'm sorry. But as long as he is in the lineup and stealing AB's and making unproductive outs and playing his usual steel glove while all the while talking about himself in third person, he deserves 100% of the complaints.

Hey, its a free message board so to speak. If you don't want to read it, no ones making you. And its not like we are just saying "Tony Womack Sucks". There are even statistics that prove it.

4256 Hits
04-02-2006, 10:33 PM
Looks like tommorrow will be 8 of my projected 1000 at bats that we will have to endure of Womack and Hatteberg on the way to a 69 win season. I hate going into the season so down but the Reds have done nothing to think that this year will be any better than last.

Blimpie
04-02-2006, 10:37 PM
Krono is no more..we are KR :devil:I KNEW it!!!
:runaway: :runawaycr :runaway: :runawaycr :runaway: :runawaycr

KronoRed
04-02-2006, 10:57 PM
Resistance is futile.

reds44
04-02-2006, 10:59 PM
Looks like tommorrow will be 8 of my projected 1000 at bats that we will have to endure of Womack and Hatteberg on the way to a 69 win season. I hate going into the season so down but the Reds have done nothing to think that this year will be any better than last.
Ok Hatteberg isn't nearly as bad as Womack. It isn't even close.

4256 Hits
04-02-2006, 11:37 PM
Ok Hatteberg isn't nearly as bad as Womack. It isn't even close.

You might want to find out a little about a player before making that type of comment. Yes he is not as bad as Womack (no body is) but he is REALLY bad his .677 OPS for a below average defensive 1st baseball (not to mention very slow) tells me he has no business being on an opening day baseball roster let along starting.

flyer85
04-02-2006, 11:40 PM
Honestly, I think 1B might be harder on his legs than LF or RF. Lots of starting and stopping.
at this point I could care less about the strain on his legs. What I do know is now that Bernie Williams is a DH the Reds have the worst CF in baseball because of his complete lack of speed. It hurts the team for him to be in CF when he could easily play s a different position.

flyer85
04-02-2006, 11:44 PM
You might want to find out a little about a player before making that type of comment. Yes he is not as bad as Womack (no body is) but he is REALLY bad his .677 OPS for a below average defensive 1st baseball (not to mention very slow) tells me he has no business being on an opening day baseball roster let along starting.Isn't it nice to know we have the worst offensive and defensive right side of the infield in all of baseball. That's really hard to accomplish.

reds44
04-02-2006, 11:57 PM
The offense is going to be a o k with or without Womack and Hatteberg in the lineup. It is just the Womack bashing is getting really old.

dsmith421
04-03-2006, 02:15 AM
I, for one, welcome our new arrogant out machine scrappy veteran second baseman overlords.

savafan
04-03-2006, 02:28 AM
Sexy dwarf chicks dig the stolen base.

TMack only sucks 68.4% of the time. The rest of the time he's quite average.