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View Full Version : 'IF' there is another firesale - who will go?



GOREDSGO32
04-03-2006, 10:34 PM
I think if Milton gets even DECENT, you trade him off for any kind of decent prospect. Also if you are going to trade off decent players ,get some decent prospects in return, eh?

reds44
04-03-2006, 10:35 PM
1 game and we are talking firesale?

GOREDSGO32
04-03-2006, 10:37 PM
I said IF. I think its obvious the Reds are in desperate need of decent prospects.

Falls City Beer
04-03-2006, 10:37 PM
Trading Milton is a firesale? :confused:

Maybe a celebratory bonfire....

GOREDSGO32
04-03-2006, 10:39 PM
I think teams could get a steal on Milton in a pitchers ballpark .. say like Washington or something?

Team Clark
04-03-2006, 10:45 PM
Trading Milton is a firesale? :confused:

Maybe a celebratory bonfire....

I literally choked when I read this... :laugh: :laugh: That's a great one Falls.

fisch11
04-03-2006, 10:45 PM
The term "fire sale" was removed just like DanO's parking spot.

KronoRed
04-03-2006, 11:21 PM
Milton should be traded no matter what.

tbball10
04-03-2006, 11:34 PM
I am still holding hope for Milton to return to pre-2005 form. It could happen :rolleyes:

KronoRed
04-03-2006, 11:36 PM
Even if he does we should deal him, he was never worth 8 mill a year.

tbball10
04-03-2006, 11:40 PM
I agree, only if we can get a decent return. If not, then we keep him for next season, and try to trade him at the deadline or maybe get a draft pick. I don't know how that works though, would we get one for Milton?

FoReel
04-04-2006, 12:06 AM
You can't trade for draft pick, Im pretty sure

The Baumer
04-04-2006, 12:10 AM
I'm pretty sure a lot of old ladies will go have they have a yard sale.

dougdirt
04-04-2006, 12:13 AM
I think at least one of these guys are gone by the trade deadline:
Dunn
Griffey
Lopez
Kearns

harangatang
04-04-2006, 12:21 AM
You can't trade for draft pick, Im pretty sure

Not in baseball.

reds44
04-04-2006, 12:22 AM
I think at least one of these guys are gone by the trade deadline:
Dunn
Griffey
Lopez
Kearns
That would completely blow up the entire point of a fire sale. You have you're future 2/3 for MANY years to come in FeLo and Dunn. Those are two guys that have been All-Stars in there very young careers, and have the ability to both be ones in the future. Felipe can hit anywhere from 1 to 4, he steals bases, and he can play 3 positions. Dunn will be 40/100 for a long time.

Why trade for future by trading your future? Seems stupid to me.

Now Kearns and Junior are a different story.

KronoRed
04-04-2006, 12:39 AM
Lopez might not be signable considering his agent, and he would bring in the most in any potential trade.

reds44
04-04-2006, 12:41 AM
Lopez might not be signable considering his agent, and he would bring in the most in any potential trade.
Please tell me his agent isn't Boris.

KronoRed
04-04-2006, 12:45 AM
Yup.

reds44
04-04-2006, 12:47 AM
Yup.
:bang: :bang: :bang: :bang: :bang:
Nooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo not Felipe!!!

dougdirt
04-04-2006, 12:47 AM
That would completely blow up the entire point of a fire sale. You have you're future 2/3 for MANY years to come in FeLo and Dunn. Those are two guys that have been All-Stars in there very young careers, and have the ability to both be ones in the future. Felipe can hit anywhere from 1 to 4, he steals bases, and he can play 3 positions. Dunn will be 40/100 for a long time.

Why trade for future by trading your future? Seems stupid to me.

Now Kearns and Junior are a different story.

Well here is my reasoning for each trade.

Krivsky values defense. Krivsky values pitching.

Dunn plays horrible defense and if traded would bring you pretty good pitching.
Felipe Lopez plays below average defense and also could bring you some talent in a trade.

Kearns plays very good defense, but has pretty decent value on the market if he can hit the ball for a month and can be replaced by Denorfia.
Griffey can hit with the best of them and plays bad defense. He could bring you something on the market and at the least could clear up some money for FA next season.

I dont think they will all go, or even 2 of them, but I would be suprised if all were playing for the Reds at the start of next season.

reds44
04-04-2006, 12:49 AM
So basically, if you don't play good defense, then you don't want him on your team.

Felipe's defense isn't bad at all, and Dunn's offense out weighs his defense 10 fold.

dougdirt
04-04-2006, 12:56 AM
Reds44, I wouldnt trade Lopez. I probably would trade Dunn for pitching if I could get a solid #2 guy. I am not the GM though. I do think that is the way he is thinking though.

reds44
04-04-2006, 01:01 AM
Reds44, I wouldnt trade Lopez. I probably would trade Dunn for pitching if I could get a solid #2 guy. I am not the GM though. I do think that is the way he is thinking though.
This is going to dissapoint alot of people, but IMO Felipe is a better ALL-AROUND player then Dunn. Well maybe I shouldn't say that yet, if he puts up numbers like last year this year, then he will be.

BRM
04-04-2006, 09:23 AM
Krivsky values defense. Krivsky values pitching.


Apparently, he doesn't. No way does a GM that values defense allow Womack and Hatteberg to be the right side of the infield. Nor does he allow Junior to play CF. All I'm seeing is lip service until I see changes made.

registerthis
04-04-2006, 10:01 AM
Reds44, I wouldnt trade Lopez. I probably would trade Dunn for pitching if I could get a solid #2 guy. I am not the GM though. I do think that is the way he is thinking though.

Anything less than a #1 for Dunn, and I am not interested. A #2 doesn't automatically make your rotation respectable. A legitimate #1 starter gives you the one guy in the rotation who is virtually guaranteed to give you a top outing every time he pitches. It's something the Reds have lacked since the days of Jose Rijo--the *original* Rijo.

registerthis
04-04-2006, 10:02 AM
Apparently, he doesn't. No way does a GM that values defense allow Womack and Hatteberg to be the right side of the infield. Nor does he allow Junior to play CF. All I'm seeing is lip service until I see changes made.

That's exactly what I was thinking. Really? Krivsky values defense and pitching? Where is the evidence of that?

BRM
04-04-2006, 10:15 AM
That's exactly what I was thinking. Really? Krivsky values defense and pitching? Where is the evidence of that?

He talks about it. He pays lip service to it but that's all he's done. He could drastically improve the defense with the current players on the roster by simply placing guys in the right spots. We'll see if it happens anytime soon.

flyer85
04-04-2006, 10:17 AM
Let's be honest, for the most part what the Reds to have to sell isn't worth buying. And for the stuff that is worth buying they have no replacements.

registerthis
04-04-2006, 10:32 AM
Let's be honest, for the most part what the Reds to have to sell isn't worth buying. And for the stuff that is worth buying they have no replacements.

That's a nasty catch-22 the Reds have gotten themselves in.

traderumor
04-04-2006, 10:34 AM
He talks about it. He pays lip service to it but that's all he's done. He could drastically improve the defense with the current players on the roster by simply placing guys in the right spots. We'll see if it happens anytime soon.I'm not real sure that Krivsky can be labeled all talk on an issue he has had very little control over. I think he has to give the field manager that chance and has not been on the job long enough to start telling him where to play people. I think Narron getting fired and then seeing some defense shuffling as a better judge of the GM putting his money where his mouth is.

SeeinRed
04-04-2006, 01:45 PM
I'm not real sure that Krivsky can be labeled all talk on an issue he has had very little control over. I think he has to give the field manager that chance and has not been on the job long enough to start telling him where to play people. I think Narron getting fired and then seeing some defense shuffling as a better judge of the GM putting his money where his mouth is.


I totally agree, and to add to that, how can you condemn a man who came in so late in the free agent process. He made a deal for pitching, which also helped the defense, even with Hatteberg at 1B. The way I look at it, this team is better since Krivsky took over, without a doubt. Kriv has put the best possible players out there for Narron to make decisions with. As far as Womack and Hatteberg on the right side, it sure beats Womack and Dunn. I would personally rather see Aurillia at 2nd (considering that Freel will never get a real shot at it), but thats just me.

People seem to forget that the Reds don't have the ability to go get any player they want to fill a position. Given the circumstances, I think Krivsky has done a great job. He has done the best with what he has. You can't ask anymore from him. Give him some time and a full free agent period, then judge his perfomance.

KronoRed
04-04-2006, 02:49 PM
We'll see if it happens anytime soon.
It happens when a manager who doesn't base his PT choices on what a player did 4 years ago takes over.

RedEye
04-04-2006, 03:30 PM
I think at least one of these guys are gone by the trade deadline:
Dunn
Griffey
Lopez
Kearns

I think I'd put them this way in order of probability:

Griffey
Dunn
Kearns
Lopez

Here's why:

Griffey--If he's healthy and swinging like he can, I really think some rich team will be interested. Kriv has already proven with the Wily Mo trade that he won't blink at trading offense for (any kind of) proven pitching. Getting out from under Griff's contract would be the best thing this team could do for the future, much as I hate to see him go.

Dunn--The 2-year deal is a stroke of brilliance, and positions Kriv to make good on a trade. Judging by his performance in the outfield yesterday, I'm starting to think this guy is more of a liability than we thought. He might just make more sense for an AL team. He also could fetch the best pitching prospects of this group. He's second on my list just because I don't think Kriv's trigger finger will be quite as fast as it will be with Griff... again, because he is signed for next year (the other reason the 2-year deal is brilliant).

KEARNS--He's cheap, he's a good outfielder, he's young, and he has barely scratched the surface of his potential. We even forestalled his free agency by demoting him when he was fat last year. With his Twins background, I wouldn't be surprised if Kriv likes him as a player more than he likes Dunn.

LOPEZ--Similar story to Kearns except that this guy plays a more irreplaceable position. I don't expect Kriv to shop this guy. Actually, I expect him to use whatever money we save from a trade trying to sign him to a Grady Sizemore-ish contract. That is, unless he just tanks this year.

These are my thoughts. Then again, I didn't think Kriv would trade Wily Mo for Bronson frickin' Arroyo. I'm still getting to know our new GM. Anyone else?

registerthis
04-04-2006, 04:30 PM
Dunn--The 2-year deal is a stroke of brilliance, and positions Kriv to make good on a trade. Judging by his performance in the outfield yesterday, I'm starting to think this guy is more of a liability than we thought.

You base this assessment after one poor game in the outfield in bad weather, despite three seasons of acceptable defense there?

Dunn isn't going to routinely drop fly balls in LF during the entire season. His defense there won't be gold glove caliber, but that's irrelevant when he's OPS'ing over .900.

If the Reds trade Dunn because of his DEFENSE, it will be the worst reason for a trade that one could possibly create. It would be completely senseless.

VI_RedsFan
04-04-2006, 05:57 PM
IF there is a firesale, then I could see Griffey, Kearns, LaRue, Milton gone. Lopez, Dunn, Edwin, Harang, Claussen, and Arroyo aren't going anywhere.

RedEye
04-04-2006, 06:01 PM
You base this assessment after one poor game in the outfield in bad weather, despite three seasons of acceptable defense there?


Yes, I'm harsh to base this on one game. I didn't mean to imply that one dance in the outfield will doom Dunn's Reds future.

However, I think it all depends on what your definition of 'acceptable' is. For me, as a fantasy baseball nut and Reds fan, Dunn's defense is indeed 'acceptable' because he hits 40 bombs a year. For Kriv, he of the Terry Ryan school of GM-ing, I'm not so sure.

Dunn is neither as bad as Manny Ramirez nor as good as, say, his friend Austin Kearns, who provides solid, plus defense game in and game out. If the Reds follow a Twins model of team-building, he might be the odd man out. Minnesota lives and dies with defense and pitching, and they have some of the best in the game. That's why they are always competitive even though they don't really have any good hitters (though that may change this year if Morneau, Kubel and Mauer reach their potential). I really think Kriv will end up being a 'tough love' type GM for fans: one who make trades that are hard to swallow at first, but make sense in the long run.

The X factor in all this, of course, is how much Castellini is willing to contribute to the pot when Kriv has a whole off-season to work with in terms of talent and budget. There was nothing left to spend money on when they took over the team this winter, but next winter there will be. If Castellni does allow this team to up the budget by 10-15 million, then we could be looking at a roster that can keep a couple of those players (Dunn, Kearns, Lopez) long-term. Right now, my vote would be for Dunn and Lopez, but the smart money might be on Kearns and Lopez given their superior all-around play.

reds44
04-04-2006, 06:27 PM
LOPEZ--Similar story to Kearns except that this guy plays a more irreplaceable position. I don't expect Kriv to shop this guy. Actually, I expect him to use whatever money we save from a trade trying to sign him to a Grady Sizemore-ish contract.

And for all of you saying Krivs doesn't value defense, lets let the man get a complete off season before we start calling him a hypocrite.

RedLegSuperStar
04-04-2006, 06:30 PM
I am still holding hope for Milton to return to pre-2005 form. It could happen :rolleyes:

What's to say he isn't at that form now.. He's a fly-ball pitcher in a fly ball type of ballpark.

Izzardius
04-04-2006, 06:37 PM
Trading Dunn now wouldn't make any sense-he's still fairly young and will still be around when(and if) the Reds finally start having good drafts and developing pitching prospects. Plus he's so underrated you probably wouldn't get what he's worth anyway. Griffey would be the most logical choice to trade, but I don't think(unless it's an AL team) that many teams will take the injury risk. I wouldn't give up Lopez or Encarnacion for anything right now, and Kearns only has value if he regains form this season.

reds44
04-04-2006, 06:41 PM
Trading Dunn now wouldn't make any sense-he's still fairly young and will still be around when(and if) the Reds finally start having good drafts and developing pitching prospects. Plus he's so underrated you probably wouldn't get what he's worth anyway. Griffey would be the most logical choice to trade, but I don't think(unless it's an AL team) that many teams will take the injury risk. I wouldn't give up Lopez or Encarnacion for anything right now, and Kearns only has value if he regains form this season.
That was the point I was making earlier. Build your team around Felipe, Dunn, and Edwin. That is a solid young core of offensive players you have right there.

Izzardius
04-04-2006, 06:44 PM
That was the point I was making earlier. Build your team around Felipe, Dunn, and Edwin. That is a solid young core of offensive players you have right there.

Exactly.

VI_RedsFan
04-04-2006, 07:55 PM
That was the point I was making earlier. Build your team around Felipe, Dunn, and Edwin. That is a solid young core of offensive players you have right there.

Add them to up-and-coming guys like Votto, Syzmanski, and Bruce...and we have a very capable offense in the future. But, if we are gonna get some pitching (Homer and Wood are the only true bright spots in the future), we need to deal guys like LaRue/Valentin and Kearns. Trading Austin will be tough, but if we get some young pitchers in return, then I'm all for it.

edabbs44
04-04-2006, 08:37 PM
Sorry to say, but Griffey is the #1 fire sale item. I'm still in awe over how Griffey wasn't traded to CWS last year.

The Reds have more issues than just getting prospects. Has anyone realized that most of these trades haven't worked out? Look at the fire sales over the last few years. Claussen(so-so so far), Harang (no complaints here) and...? WE NEED TO START SPENDING MONEY IN THE DRAFT AND IN THE INTERNATIONAL MARKET! That's it...nothing else. Keep and build around Dunn, Kearns, Lopez and EE. Hope Bruce and Bailey pan out. If you are not going to get anything decent in deadline deals, don't make the trade. Get the compensation picks.
Look at how Oakland and Minny have built up their systems. They always have "the best draft" b/c they always have 5 picks in the top 100. Stockpile college pitchers the next 2 years and spend money. Without doing that, we'll always be trading our best upcoming FAs for fringe players.

Sorry for the rant, but I just read BA where we came in 30th in farm rankings.

seligstinks
04-05-2006, 07:13 PM
This stupid Reds franchise drafted a high school outfielder #1 in the last draft when everyone here wanted the Reds to get the best college pitcher available. More Reds emphasis on short-term profits uber alles, thanks to Mr. Accountant who doesn't know much about baseball, John Allen. And the last GM's "pitch to contact" philosophy resulted in a pitching staff with relatively few walks per plate appearance- but lots of hits, and perhaps the worst pitching in the majors. No wonder the Reds farm system is the worst.

The Reds should raise the payroll at least to something above the major-league average, keep Dunn, Lopez, Harang, Claussen, etc. and get rid of Allen.

StillFunkyB
04-05-2006, 07:55 PM
I think at least one of these guys are gone by the trade deadline:
Dunn
Griffey
Lopez
Kearns

You trade one of Dunn, or Lopez you might as well trade 'em all.