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toledodan
04-05-2006, 09:01 PM
i hope this helps everyone out. the blackout rules suck for MLB. would the mods be kind enough to sticky this to the top?





http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/files/astrodirt/discussion/419/

flyer85
04-05-2006, 09:02 PM
is most absurd. There are nymerous cities that are claimed by as many as 4-5 teams

toledodan
04-05-2006, 09:06 PM
is most absurd. There are nymerous cities that are claimed by as many as 4-5 teams



i agree 100%. there is no excuse for some of these blackouts. some teams could have cities for markets over 500 miles away.

gitrdunn44
04-05-2006, 09:09 PM
I was pretty upset when i taped the game today and all that was on there was ESPNEWS because of the stupid blackout deal.

toledodan
04-05-2006, 09:10 PM
I was pretty upset when i taped the game today and all that was on there was ESPNEWS because of the stupid blackout deal.


where do you live? i got the game on espn here in toledo.

cincrazy
04-05-2006, 09:13 PM
yeah, that blackout rule is absolutely ridiculous

pedro
04-05-2006, 09:14 PM
The black out ranges are way too large.

It's counterproductive IMO.

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:17 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamnc.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:18 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamne.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:18 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamse.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:18 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamsc.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:19 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamsw.jpg

westofyou
04-05-2006, 09:19 PM
http://www.baseballthinkfactory.org/bodies/werr/teamnw.jpg

toledodan
04-05-2006, 09:27 PM
what stinks for me is i live 1 minute from the michigan border. if i lived on the other side i would get every reds game on directv. the funny thing is i'm also considerd the tigers market but none of their games are blacked out.:bang:

gitrdunn44
04-05-2006, 09:28 PM
i'm in lafayette

KronoRed
04-05-2006, 09:29 PM
So a Mariner fan in Eastern MONTANA is going to get blacked out

Stupidity.

Reds Fanatic
04-05-2006, 09:32 PM
These rules are idiotic. I am in the Reds, Indians and Tigers market. The Reds I can understand because we get their games here. But the Indians and Tigers are not near here and we have never got their games on TV.

flyer85
04-05-2006, 09:41 PM
The black out ranges are way too large.covers the whole stinkin country. Seems like a team should get 50 miles and that's it.

lucky bugle boy
04-05-2006, 09:49 PM
So that explains why I didn't get the game on ESPN today. Thanks for posting that guys, never understood that before. Still frustrating...was looking forward to seeing the game. Grr.

toledodan
04-05-2006, 10:06 PM
covers the whole stinkin country. Seems like a team should get 50 miles and that's it.



doesn't the nfl have a 75 mile blackout rule? to me that is fair and i could even go for 100 miles. i think the mlb extra innings people are losing alot of money because of this.

flyer85
04-05-2006, 10:06 PM
if they were smart they wouldn't have a blackout rule at all

bucksfan
04-05-2006, 10:28 PM
I have never once considered not going to a game because it was on TV. If I wanted to go, I went. It was always a cash/time consideration.

Heath
04-05-2006, 10:30 PM
My cable system at worked blacked it out.

My satellite at home had the game.

I'm in Dayton.

deltachi8
04-05-2006, 11:20 PM
Nice. Closest (geographically) team to Buffalo is Toronto...no blackout. But the Mets, Yankees, Pirates and Indains all claim Buffalo.


i think the mlb extra innings people are losing alot of money because of this.

i dont know how much all togher but it was a huge factor in not getting $159 from me.

NatiRedGals
04-05-2006, 11:20 PM
If you have Mlb.Tv ive watched every game on their even if its blacked out just search for proxy lists on google outisde the areas of the team :) I love it i never miss a game anymore!!!!

Wheelhouse
04-05-2006, 11:24 PM
Boy with that much blacked out, how can the Reds be called "small market"? Reds nation is huge.

KronoRed
04-06-2006, 12:17 AM
Boy with that much blacked out, how can the Reds be called "small market"? Reds nation is huge.
80% of that zone doesn't carry FSN Ohio.

Cant Touch This
04-06-2006, 12:22 AM
What a crock. I live in a city with no team, but have 6 home teams. Normally, I wouldn't care, but when the Reds play in LA, SF, SD, or AZ, those games will be blacked out. We, the commonfolk, have no power.

SteelSD
04-06-2006, 02:43 AM
That map is mental retardation at its finest.

First, it has nothing to do with where you're actually located. It only cares about where your signal is coming from. I live in an area that isn't claimed by the Cubs but because the cable company is exactly two miles away (across a state border), all Cubs games are blacked out for me.

And it's the same thing if you're travelling and have mlb.tv because they only care about your ISP location. Last year, my billing address for that service was South Dakota. I travelled to Nashville, TN and a Reds game being played in New York was blacked out for me. The inept customer service rep I spoke with touted mlb.tv as a great service to have for business travellers. Bunk. It's a great service to business travellers who travel nearly half a country away from a team's "home" area (which could be easily 1/3 of a country away).

If MLB were smart, they'd either do away with the blackout rule entirely or limit it to an area of about 120 miles from the actual game location. If that happened, they'd find that MLB would receive more revenue from folks who aren't going to drive 3-10 hours in order to catch a game at the stadium anyway and who're willing to pay a fair price for a product that actually worked.

BCubb2003
04-06-2006, 03:15 AM
The guy did a great job with that map, using MLB's ZIP codes and the Census data, but it's from 2003. (It doesn't show the Nationals.)

But check out the towns in Montana that are more than 1,000 miles from their blacked-out team.

And the Reds have the sixth biggest blacked-out population at more than 26 million.

Jpup
04-06-2006, 05:00 AM
baseball has to change this soon. I don't understand how baseball can let this continue. they are losing tons of money because of it.:confused:

i wonder who the people in charge of this would be. i assume it would be the owners and the commisioners office? This is something Bud could change that would be "good for the game."

anyone volunteer for a nicely written letter to the commisioners office?

HalMorrisRules
04-06-2006, 10:23 AM
My cable system at worked blacked it out.

My satellite at home had the game.

I'm in Dayton.

Same thing I saw too. I Tivo'd the game and wasnt expecting to see it but DirecTV didnt black it out for some reason. Another thing I like about DirecTV is they have channels for ESPN alternative programming. Let's say ESPN is broadcasting 2 baseball games at 7PM but they are being shown on a regional basis around the country. On DirecTV I can watch both of them. I was able to catch a couple of extra Reds games that way last year, one in LA that I remember for sure. People who had cable didnt get to see it.


i think the mlb extra innings people are losing alot of money because of this.

i dont know how much all togher but it was a huge factor in not getting $159 from me.

What drives me crazy about the mlb extra innings package is if the Reds are playing the Brewers, for example, and the Brewers FSN team is broadcasting the game but FSN Ohio isnt broadcasting the game, the game will be blacked out even if there is no competing FSN Ohio broadcast. It turns out that FSN Ohio has exclusive rights to Reds baseball broadcasts in this area, the only exception being if it is a national broadcast on ESPN or FOX, etc. I would buy the extra innings package if it would allow me to watch the out of market broadcasts that feature games that FSN Ohio isnt showing. Oh well.

Johnny Footstool
04-06-2006, 10:35 AM
Check out those poor folks in Iowa -- SIX teams blacked out across the entire state.

Heath
04-06-2006, 10:42 AM
You know why I get the MLB EI package.

Vin Scully on a clear night in LA.

You just can't beat it.

MartyFan
04-06-2006, 10:42 AM
I have never once considered not going to a game because it was on TV. If I wanted to go, I went. It was always a cash/time consideration.

Agreed...nothing in the world like BEING THERE.

I enjoy watching the games on TV but I don't have cable or sat. TV and I can't tell you how many years it has been since the Reds were on a local station in Columbus...this is the DUMBEST and I would say potentially one of the most damaging things they are doing to the future of baseball.

Why?

They have a problem with the popularity of baseball among young kids...especially kids in the city...how could the game possibly reach an audience of people who live in the city and watch a lot of tv???? How???? Hmmm???? nOPE, i DON'T KNOW EITHER.

When I was a kid I watched pretty much the entire season on Channel 4 in Columbus...that was when the BIG RED MACHINE played...and because of that I became a fan...because the games were available I knew about Joe Morgan flapping his arm at the plate...I knew about Davey Concepcion being a sleek fielder and CLUTCH hitter...When I heard the nickname "CHARLIE HUSTLE" I knew why he was called that....the list goes on and on...having the games on TV does not hurt the fanbase or attendence....it helps.

It would probably also help revenues through merchandising and making pregame/postgame/hot stove specials too.

The only reason anyone would think a baseball game was boring is if they don't understand the game.

toledodan
04-06-2006, 10:49 AM
What drives me crazy about the mlb extra innings package is if the Reds are playing the Brewers, for example, and the Brewers FSN team is broadcasting the game but FSN Ohio isnt broadcasting the game, the game will be blacked out even if there is no competing FSN Ohio broadcast. It turns out that FSN Ohio has exclusive rights to Reds baseball broadcasts in this area, the only exception being if it is a national broadcast on ESPN or FOX, etc. I would buy the extra innings package if it would allow me to watch the out of market broadcasts that feature games that FSN Ohio isnt showing. Oh well.



that was the whole reason i bought the EI package 3 seasons ago. i really thought i would be able to get all the reds games. now i can't get rid of it because my wife is a yankee fan. what really pi$$es me off is i can watch every tiger game and i'm only 50 miles away from detroit.:bang: :bang: :bang:

traderumor
04-06-2006, 11:42 AM
It does seem counterproductive from a revenue perspective. Sporting events are so well attended these days and TV is part of the reason why. So, it would seem that making it less difficult for people to follow a team through this media would entice them to come out to the ballpark rather than keep people from the ballpark.

I'm sure the reasons are more political than they are business reasons, because I cannot see how they would anticipate lost revenue if there were very limited blackout restrictions. Do the networks with the contract really believe that their contract is worth more if they are not getting maximum coverage in vast areas surrounding the team's location? Wouldn't ad revenue increase if they could show an additional hundreds of thousands of potential viewers with each broadcast? Does Ohio Stadium have a problem selling out even though all the games are broadcast on one network or another? Can someone explain that logic to me?

Personally, I do not think anyone would suffer if even locals could watch the game on TV rather than go to the ballpark. I would imagine that the vast majority, if they had choice in the matter, would choose to see the game at the ballpark rather than on TV.

Phil in BG
04-06-2006, 11:50 AM
Am I reading the map right that Columbus is blacked out for Cleveland and Pittsburgh only?

Heath
04-06-2006, 11:52 AM
Just think for a minute that this is MAJOR LEAGUE BASEBALL.

What, pray tell, have they done to promote or improve one of the best sports in America on a positive note?

M2
04-06-2006, 12:05 PM
Boy with that much blacked out, how can the Reds be called "small market"? Reds nation is huge.

It certainly defines the size of the opportunity the Reds have if they can put together a quality franchise with an aggressive broadcast plan. It goes to something I've been saying for years -- Cincinnati may be a small city, but it has a potentially massive baseball market. You only have to go back to the 1970s, when radio was still king, to see what the franchise can do when it captures that market.

As for the blackout rules, they are silly and I'm with those who think there should be a 50-mile limit.

Chip R
04-06-2006, 01:21 PM
Can anyone figure out a reason why these blackout rules are in place? There had to be some reason they are like they are. No one in their right mind could expect this blackout rule to make someone from Eastern Montana to go to Mariners games instead of watching it at home. Or someone in Nashville to go up to Reds games. But other than on message boards, there is no hue and cry about it. No sportswriters talk about it and no one is writing books about it so it must not be a problem. :runaway:

Yachtzee
04-06-2006, 01:45 PM
The sportswriters probably don't talk about it because it doesn't really affect them. They have ready access to just about any game they want. The biggest impact is on those who live beyond the local markets of their favorite teams. Those people are more likely to be using the internet as their main source of info about their team and so are more likely to gripe about not being able to access the games. Up here, most people are Cleveland fans and have ready access to the Indians on the radio and on TV, so there isn't much of a beef about it. Baseball writers don't really care much about you if you don't have an MLB team or a decent shot of getting one in the future, so if you live in Toledo, you're persona non grata..well, until some hot Tigers prospect shows up on his way to the majors.

To me it seems more like the territory maps are holdovers from the days of radio, when people in the hinterlands might have an actual shot of hearing those teams' games. It doesn't really work well for modern media, where your choice of "home team" may very well depend on the whims of your local cable provider.

M2
04-06-2006, 02:22 PM
I'm guessing the blackout rule is there to protect the broadcasting networks against losing viewership to the Internet.

The insane part of that is that MLB.TV is using the original broadcasts, so it's not pirating any viewership. Quite the opposite, it's adding viewership. Not only that, it's adding viewership that can be totalled in a way regular television can't be. So networks could know exactly how many viewers are being added via the Net and then build that into their advertising fees. Also, MLB.TV allows you to add national viewership, which could make local ballgame broadcasts more appealing to national advertisers (e.g. car companies and investment firms). I'm guessing that people who use the Web to watch baseball would be a sweet spot demographic for advertisers.

The unintended consequence is the blackouts are probably preventing MLB and the broadcasting channels from making more money by making it more difficult for tech-savvy folks to view the games.

traderumor
04-06-2006, 02:34 PM
The sportswriters probably don't talk about it because it doesn't really affect them. They have ready access to just about any game they want. The biggest impact is on those who live beyond the local markets of their favorite teams. Those people are more likely to be using the internet as their main source of info about their team and so are more likely to gripe about not being able to access the games. Up here, most people are Cleveland fans and have ready access to the Indians on the radio and on TV, so there isn't much of a beef about it. Baseball writers don't really care much about you if you don't have an MLB team or a decent shot of getting one in the future, so if you live in Toledo, you're persona non grata..well, until some hot Tigers prospect shows up on his way to the majors.

To me it seems more like the territory maps are holdovers from the days of radio, when people in the hinterlands might have an actual shot of hearing those teams' games. It doesn't really work well for modern media, where your choice of "home team" may very well depend on the whims of your local cable provider.
I think its safe to say that the rules are antiquated and the fear that people would not attend games if covered live by some form of media is simply a myth. Why I cannot choose to watch Reds games that are not carried by FSN on Extra Innings or the web if I choose to pay for them is beyond me. There is not one shred of revenue preserved by me not being able to watch the game, unless there's a factor(s) I'm not considering, but only revenue lost.

KronoRed
04-06-2006, 02:59 PM
You know why I get the MLB EI package.

Vin Scully on a clear night in LA.

You just can't beat it.
:clap:

I was listening to him last night and even though I hate the braves and dodgers I was enjoying it, he's all about the game.

The Best.

BRM
04-06-2006, 03:01 PM
:clap:

I was listening to him last night and even though I hate the braves and dodgers I was enjoying it, he's all about the game.

The Best.

Same here. I find myself watching quite a few Dodger games just to listen to Vin.

paulrichjr
04-06-2006, 04:31 PM
I live right across the border of Alabama and Mississippi (in Tennessee). I cannot PAY to watch the Reds because I am considered in their market. My wife is a Cards fan and she cannot PAY to watch the Cards. Baseball has the dumbest management of all the leagues by a wide margin. Football, Hockey, Basketball, NCAA etc...everyone figured out that TV was a smart thing for their sport.