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StillFunkyB
04-07-2006, 09:10 AM
I was curious if Freel's SB's were because the pitcher was napping, Barrett has a weak arm, or if he just got a great jump.

It seems as if Ryan Freel could lead the league in SB's if he played every day, and got on base just a tad more than he has so far in his career.

RedsManRick
04-07-2006, 10:43 AM
Remember he stole 5 in a game last year. Once Freel realizes that the pitcher is slow to the plate or the catcher has a noodle, he's running every chance he gets. As for his SB the other day, I dunno which is the case. Seeing as how they pitched out and he still stole, I'm guessing he got a good read on the starter.

Doc. Scott
04-07-2006, 11:49 AM
It was napping quite in the sense like the June game against the Braves last season where I watched 46-year-old Julio Franco jog to second and then third against Matt Belisle and Javier Valentin, but I don't think the one base even drew a throw.

GridironGrace
04-07-2006, 12:36 PM
Those SB's vs the Cubs the other day! Werent they with 2 outs?

2 outs their really not worried with getting a Runner... they want the BATTER.

IM pretty sure it was with 2 outs.

Cedric
04-07-2006, 12:38 PM
Those SB's vs the Cubs the other day! Werent they with 2 outs?

2 outs their really not worried with getting a Runner... they want the BATTER.

IM pretty sure it was with 2 outs.

Getting into scoring position is sorta important in baseball.

GridironGrace
04-07-2006, 01:00 PM
YES it is.

But with 2 outs... a Pitcher isnt gonna worry to much about a runner in the first place.......he's gonna get the BATTER.

Thats all im saying... so in a sense freel caught them sleeping.....but "sleeping" is more like "not caring" lol

And he ended up scoring because of it

ESPECIALLLY when he stole 3rd.

Freel was scoring on a single anyways once he was on 2B.

penantboundreds
04-07-2006, 01:10 PM
on one of them they pitched out and he still made it, that isn't napping, that's speed and a good jump

he is a hell of a baserunner, give him his props

GridironGrace
04-07-2006, 01:27 PM
i am........thats when he stole 2B

RedsManRick
04-07-2006, 02:52 PM
YES it is.

But with 2 outs... a Pitcher isnt gonna worry to much about a runner in the first place.......he's gonna get the BATTER.

Thats all im saying... so in a sense freel caught them sleeping.....but "sleeping" is more like "not caring" lol

And he ended up scoring because of it

ESPECIALLLY when he stole 3rd.

Freel was scoring on a single anyways once he was on 2B.

Good point. Freel stealing 3rd with two outs is actually a pretty stupid risk to take.

Cedric
04-07-2006, 03:03 PM
I was talking about the post that said 2 out steals aren't important.

Caveat Emperor
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Good point. Freel stealing 3rd with two outs is actually a pretty stupid risk to take.

Stealing 3rd gives a speed guy like Ryan Freel a chance to steal on a wild pitch or a passed ball.

Situationally, this can be a huge thing, as it can alter the appraoch of the pitcher away from throwing certain pitches. With a speed guy on third and 2 outs, I can all but guarantee you that you that the pitcher is going to avoid, if it all possible, any hard breaking pitches low and away or other pitches with a good chance of finding the dirt or missing the catcher. Simply by being on 3rd, Freel has forced the pitcher to change his gameplan and has changed the complexion of the AB.

It's a good risk to take, especially if Freel is confident he can beat a throw or get in with no throw at all.

RedsManRick
04-07-2006, 03:19 PM
Stealing 3rd gives a speed guy like Ryan Freel a chance to steal on a wild pitch or a passed ball.

Situationally, this can be a huge thing, as it can alter the appraoch of the pitcher away from throwing certain pitches. With a speed guy on third and 2 outs, I can all but guarantee you that you that the pitcher is going to avoid, if it all possible, any hard breaking pitches low and away or other pitches with a good chance of finding the dirt or missing the catcher. Simply by being on 3rd, Freel has forced the pitcher to change his gameplan and has changed the complexion of the AB.

It's a good risk to take, especially if Freel is confident he can beat a throw or get in with no throw at all.

Well, I'll grant you that specific situation perhaps - as it seems that Freel knew they couldn't touch him. However, if you're dealing with typical success rate, say 75%, I think you're likely better off staying at 2B, rather than risking an inning end SB. With no chance to score on a sac fly, the value of a man on 3B with 2 outs is much closer to what it is with him on 2B, so the risk/reward ratio increases.

Spitball
04-07-2006, 05:07 PM
It's bad, bad, bad to make the first or third out at third base. But, if your 99% certain you can make it and one run is important for insurance or winning, then it would be prudent to steal third with two outs. With two outs, a runner can score from third in so many more ways than from second. Off the top of my head: passed ball, wild pitch, balk, steal, squeeze, infield error, infield single, and few more I'm sure. Also, as was mentioned, the pitcher cannot risk certain pitches that have a tendency to break down into the dirt.

A steal of second is important, even with two outs, because it puts a runner in scoring position (more likely to get one single with two outs) and eliminates the force at second.

registerthis
04-07-2006, 06:19 PM
Well, I'll grant you that specific situation perhaps - as it seems that Freel knew they couldn't touch him. However, if you're dealing with typical success rate, say 75%, I think you're likely better off staying at 2B, rather than risking an inning end SB. With no chance to score on a sac fly, the value of a man on 3B with 2 outs is much closer to what it is with him on 2B, so the risk/reward ratio increases.

Well, as we saw on Wednesday, him stealing third was essentially the difference in the game. Without being on third for the groundout, he never woul dhave made it home.

M2
04-07-2006, 06:24 PM
Freel timed the pitchers perfectly, but I'm guessing he also knew that as long as he gets a good jump there's no way in hell Michael Barrett can throw him out. Seriously, I bet it's mathematically impossible.

BTW, the two times he stole second it was with one out. It was only the swipe of 3rd that he did with two outs.

Freel's a gifted base stealer. He can take the base even when everyone knows he's going. In fact, wasn't his first steal on a pitch out?

StillFunkyB
04-09-2006, 09:06 AM
Off the top of my head: passed ball, wild pitch, balk, steal, squeeze, infield error, infield single, and few more I'm sure.

I don't see too many managers attempting a squeeze with two outs. ;)

Spitball
04-09-2006, 10:25 AM
I don't see too many managers attempting a squeeze with two outs. ;)

Why wouldn't a manager squeeze with two outs? We are not talking about a straight sacrifice which usually results in a fielder's choice and one base runner being out. I have seen sacrifices in many different situations, but I think I would be most inclined to use it with two outs, game on the line, fast runner on third, and a weak batter/good bunter.

I haven't seen one since Bobby Cox used one versus the Reds a couple of years ago. I believe Furcal scored.

StillFunkyB
04-09-2006, 12:20 PM
Why wouldn't a manager squeeze with two outs? We are not talking about a straight sacrifice which usually results in a fielder's choice and one base runner being out. I have seen sacrifices in many different situations, but I think I would be most inclined to use it with two outs, game on the line, fast runner on third, and a weak batter/good bunter.

I haven't seen one since Bobby Cox used one versus the Reds a couple of years ago. I believe Furcal scored.

I guess it depends on the situation, but it's not something that is done very often.

Cedric
04-09-2006, 11:28 PM
It's not a squeeze play if there is two outs.

alloverjr
04-10-2006, 12:02 AM
It seems as if Ryan Freel could lead the league in SB's if he played every day, and got on base just a tad more than he has so far in his career.

IIRC, Freel's had an OBP of .370 + the last two years. What more could you possibly want from the guy? To be Barry Bonds? The first part of your sentence is partially his own doing with injuries. He's had the types that can be avoided with proper preparation.

WVPacman
04-10-2006, 12:45 AM
Freel needs to be in our starting lineup EVERYGAME!!! We seen what happened when he was'nt in there today our offense looked awful. We could'nt get nothing started or any rallys b/c the MAIN leadoff guy was setting on the bench.You all seen what happened when he got to bat in the 9th he got on base and made the pitcher lose focus on JR.Jr then got a double and with Freels speed he scored all the way from first. Freel is to good to just get to play 2 out of 5 games or 3 out of 6.He should be in there everyday b/c he plays hard and makes good things happen for the reds.

I would move Dunn to first base and put Freel in left so he could play everyday.Change Walmack,RA and Hatteberg out of the lineups from day to day.Go with who ever is playing the best ball between those three.Dunn at 1st,Freel in left,and put whoever is playing the best between Wamack,RA,Hatteberg at 2nd.

Freel needs to be in there everyday!!!!!!!