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View Full Version : Reds Acquire Brandon Phillips



Danny Serafini
04-07-2006, 02:34 PM
For PTBNL or cash, per Reds press notes. He'll wear #4 and join the team tomorrow. Matt Kata was DFA'd, a roster move for the 25 man will be announced tomorrow.

Matt700wlw
04-07-2006, 02:35 PM
Another infielder.....that's such a weakness on this team.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:36 PM
Say what? Another second baseman? :all_cohol Guess I picked the wrong week to quit drinking.

redsfanmia
04-07-2006, 02:36 PM
Great move IMO.

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 02:37 PM
Great move IMO.Kinda depends on what corresponding move happens on the 25 man rossiter, no?

Red Leader
04-07-2006, 02:38 PM
He does have some upside. I believe his defense has always been pretty good, but his bat needs to come around, and quickly.

Crash Davis
04-07-2006, 02:38 PM
Giggity.


Actually, I'd like to see what Brandon Phillips could do in a full-time stint as the Reds 2B. He's a few years past the Barry Larkin comparisons, but he has tools, he'd improve the middle infield defense and the Reds have the lineup to accomodate his "iffy" stick. This is a player who could thrive with a fresh start.

RedsManRick
04-07-2006, 02:39 PM
Not a bad pickup for a PTBNL. Mr. Denorfia/Abad, I hope you enjoyed your time with the big squad.

Danny Serafini
04-07-2006, 02:40 PM
I absolutely hate this move. Phillips just flat out stinks. There's just no point.

TeamSelig
04-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Not sure how he will get any playing time. A former top prospect, and it doesn't seem like we gave up much, so its a low risk trade and hopefully he pans out.

Red Leader
04-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Kinda depends on what corresponding move happens on the 25 man rossiter, no?

and if it's Womack being DFA'd? (yeah, right)

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Where is this being reported? I've checked Marc's blog, the Reds website, the Indians website, the Enquirer and Post and ESPN and CNN/SI and don't see anything on it.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:44 PM
What's Phillips at best, Pokey Reese lite?

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Where is this being reported? I've checked Marc's blog, the Reds website, the Indians website, the Enquirer and Post and ESPN and CNN/SI and don't see anything on it.

Sorry, I see "per the Reds press notes" - interesting that it's not being reported yet.

lollipopcurve
04-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Yo. Kinda like this. He could be a guy who needs a change of scenery. He was awful d**n good at a young age in the minors -- then, the reputed "attitude issues." A new club can turn a guy around.

There was got to be a trade of a middle infielder coming before long. I'm still guessing Freel for pitching.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Where is this being reported? I've checked Marc's blog, the Reds website, the Indians website, the Enquirer and Post and ESPN and CNN/SI and don't see anything on it.Danny's original post says per Reds press notes.

CaiGuy
04-07-2006, 02:45 PM
career .206 average, .246 OBP .556 OPS

O, snap

redsfan30
04-07-2006, 02:46 PM
There *has* to be a bigger trade coming. This move doesn't make sense if there isn't.

wire2wire90
04-07-2006, 02:46 PM
He looks to be a plus defender...so I don't mind him for late inning defensive substitutions either.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:46 PM
Yo. Kinda like this. He could be a guy who needs a change of scenery. He was awful d**n good at a young age in the minors -- then, the reputed "attitude issues." A new club can turn a guy around.

There was got to be a trade of a middle infielder coming before long. I'm still guessing Freel for pitching.But can he hit? Those sure aren't very pretty minor league numbers.

RBA
04-07-2006, 02:47 PM
There *has* to be a bigger trade coming. This move doesn't make sense if there isn't.

Agreed.

Freel
Womack
Aurilia
Phillips

Someone has to go...................................

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 02:47 PM
The Reds listened to me :D

Buy..I wouldn't have traded anything for this kid, maybe a bag of meat.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 02:48 PM
Agreed.

Freel
Womack
Aurilia
Phillips

Someone has to go...................................
I have a feeling on who will go, it's the one we don't think is good enough to start.

RBA
04-07-2006, 02:48 PM
The Reds listened to me :D

Buy..I wouldn't have traded anything for this kid, maybe a bag of meat.

I'm deducting rep pts from you. :angry:

Red Leader
04-07-2006, 02:49 PM
I have a feeling on who will go, it's the one we don't think is good enough to start.

My feeling is that it'll be the one who's most valuable: Wayne Arnold.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:50 PM
The thing of it is, even if a trade is coming, that still leaves 3 guys whose primary position is 2b.

I think they're gonna DFA Womack for not getting that bunt down late last night :evil: (a guy can dream, can't he?)

traderumor
04-07-2006, 02:51 PM
I have a feeling on who will go, it's the one we don't think is good enough to start.C'mon, repeat after me. He's too valuable to start :)

nkufan
04-07-2006, 02:53 PM
he adds some speed to the club. how old is brandon phillips?

cincy09
04-07-2006, 02:56 PM
24

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 02:56 PM
C'mon, repeat after me. He's too valuable to start :)
Of course.

He's too valuble to play :D

CaiGuy
04-07-2006, 02:57 PM
But can he hit? Those sure aren't very pretty minor league numbers.
It sure doesn't look like he can, does it?

He can glove it on D though.

But why get Phillips? What can he do that Bergollia can't? I really don't see the point in this. He doesn't appear to have much upside. If they wanted a good defensive second baseman with a weak stick, they should have checked AAA.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 02:57 PM
I'm deducting rep pts from you. :angry:
What? you wanted the bag of meat? ;)

HotCorner
04-07-2006, 03:01 PM
I love it!

Hmm could they be dealing Kearns and move Freel to the OF on a more perminent basis?

westofyou
04-07-2006, 03:01 PM
But why get Phillips? What can he do that Bergollia can't? Play CF?

deltachi8
04-07-2006, 03:02 PM
24, a plus defender, whats the risk?

I have seen him in Buffalo a few times. Good flove, but comes off lazy at times. Not sure if he is or just the way he carries himself. A change of scenery could help.

Crash Davis
04-07-2006, 03:03 PM
But can he hit? Those sure aren't very pretty minor league numbers.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/brandon-phillips.shtml

His age 20 & 21 seasons in AA are pretty impressive.

His 2002 & 2004 seasons in AAA are very nice for his age.

cumberlandreds
04-07-2006, 03:04 PM
This could explain why Freel was on thebench last night. Could have been showcasing one last time either Womack or Aurilia for a trade. Just a thought.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:04 PM
with Phillips(24) there is at least upside. His career was very similar to Lopez(25) until Felipe blossomed last year.

If I thought the 3 2b roster model wouldn't work, the 4 2b model wouldn't seem to work either. Obviously someone is about to be gone.

cincy09
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Per Rotoworld:

Reds designated infielder Matt Kata for assignment.
Kata, who had been playing at Triple-A Louisville, was claimed off waivers from the Phillies last month. He would be better off in another organization, but there's a good chance that he'll clear waivers this time. Apr. 7 - 3:04 pm et

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
Not sure how he will get any playing time. A former top prospect, and it doesn't seem like we gave up much, so its a low risk trade and hopefully he pans out.kind of like when the Reds acquired Lopez.

puca
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
I like the move, as long as he takes Tony's ABs and place on the roster.

He isn't much of a hitter at this point and although his minor league track record is spotty, it gives some reason for hope. He is by all accounts a plus defender, and gives us a better back up SS option. His attitude is questionable, but maybe a change of venue will help. Of course this move will probably really p-off Freel.

As long as the PTBNL is not significant, it is the kind of risk the Reds should be taking.

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
This could explain why Freel was on thebench last night. Could have been showcasing one last time either Womack or Aurilia for a trade. Just a thought.:pray:

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:06 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they just cut Womack.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-07-2006, 03:08 PM
In two full years at Buffalo he put up .760+ OPS, has added a little pop in his bat (8 HR's in 2004, 15 HR's last year) and he still hasn't turned 25. I'll take him over Bergolla or Olmedo, but that's not saying much.

I like it.

CaiGuy
04-07-2006, 03:08 PM
True, if he takes Womak's spot, one couldn't complain.

It would also be nice to have a second baseman who can acually play second base.

Bill
04-07-2006, 03:09 PM
Good deal- Phillips has the talent- but attitude, both about game and with stick in hand, caused him to hit an early ceiling, but reports are his attitude was much improved this ST. If he tries not to pull everything, the Reds might have a good one here.

Recall that many of us here wanted BP when he was a phenom with the expos. you can't go much on his major league average as he was rushed and just a kid, not ready.

Also plays a good SS. Good move by the new GM.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:09 PM
I wouldn't be surprised if they just cut Womack.
I would, he's a vet.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:09 PM
I think it's a good move. The guy was once one the most highly sought after prospects in all of baseball and he is still only 24.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:09 PM
with Phillips(24) there is at least upside. His career was very similar to Lopez(25) until Felipe blossomed last year.

If I thought the 3 2b roster model wouldn't work, the 4 2b model wouldn't seem to work either. Obviously someone is about to be gone.you have been around long enough to never, never, ever, ever say "obvious" when pondering what the Reds might do. :)

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:10 PM
I would, he's a vet.


Stop it schleprock. ;)

That's Narron;s MO , not Krivsky's.

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:10 PM
Now on the Indians' website, but still not on the Reds...


4/7/06 Traded INF Brandon Phillips to the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for PTBN or cash; Phillips was designated for assignment on April 1.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:11 PM
BTW

Minor league career
Lopez - 2100 ABs .279BA .430SLG 57HR 71SB
Phillips - 2700ABs .273BA .415SLG 67HR 107SB

Awfully similar. Lopez blossomed in 2005 in his age 24 year coming off a disappointing 2004 season(at both AAA and MLB).

Phillips is in his age 24 season in 2006.

He was centerpiece of the Colon deal at the time. A better prospect than both Sizemore and Lee.

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 03:11 PM
The AP story in the Akron Beacon Journal:


Indians send Brandon Phillips to Reds
TOM WITHERS
Associated Press
CLEVELAND - Infielder Brandon Phillips, a one-time starter who never fulfilled expectations in Cleveland, was traded by the Indians on Friday to the Cincinnati Reds for a player to be named or cash.

The clubs announced the deal shortly before the first pitch of the Indians' home opener against Minnesota.

Phillips won the starting job in spring training and was at second base for the Indians on opening day in 2003. But he struggled and was sent back to the minor leagues at the All-Star break after batting just .210 - the AL's lowest average among qualifying players - in 88 games.

The 24-year-old has spent most of the past two seasons at Triple-A Buffalo. He was a September call-up in each of the past two years, but batted just .129 (4-for-31) with one RBI.

The Indians had run out of options on Phillips, who came over with Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee in the six-player deal that sent Bartolo Colon to the Montreal Expos in June 2002.

Phillips had a decent spring training this year, but he couldn't beat out Ramon Vazquez for the Indians' utility infield spot.

He has always been a spectacular fielder, even after being moved from shortstop to second base. But Phillips' swing has been his downfall. While with Cleveland, he fell in love with hitting home runs and despite efforts by the Indians to make him a better contact hitter, he never became one.

In 135 major league games, Phillips drew only 19 walks and struck out 92 times.

To make room for Phillips, the Reds designated infielder Matt Kata for assignment. He was claimed off waivers from Philadelphia on March 15.

Phillips is expected to report to Cincinnati in time for Saturday's game against Pittsburgh.

The teams have until June 15 to complete the deal.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:12 PM
Now on the Indians' website, but still not on the Reds...
Are the Reds trying to hide it? ;)

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:13 PM
There *has* to be a bigger trade coming. This move doesn't make sense if there isn't.multiple moves, to fix this mismatched roster composition a number of transactions will have to take place(not necessarily all at once).

MasonBuzz3
04-07-2006, 03:13 PM
since phillips isnt due to report to cincinnati until saturday, does that mean that a move on tht 25 man isnt due until saturday as well? or is a move needed immediately?

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:14 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Freel traded for pitching and Phillips installed as the starter at 2nd to help shore up the defense.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:14 PM
Good deal- Phillips has the talent- but attitude, both about game and with stick in hand, caused him to hit an early ceilingwhich was all of things we were hearing about Lopez before his breakout 2005. The Jays just gave up on Lopez a few years earlier than the Indians did on phillips.

RBA
04-07-2006, 03:14 PM
I have been swayed by the board and now think this is a good move. Especially if Aurilia or Womack departs.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:15 PM
You've got to think Bergolla sees the handwriting on the wall.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:15 PM
I wonder if Phillips would be a better SS than Lopez?

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:16 PM
you have been around long enough to never, never, ever, ever say "obvious" when pondering what the Reds might do. :)You're right, they will probably DFA Abad.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:16 PM
I have been swayed by the board and now think this is a good move. Especially if Aurilia or Womack departs.Wow, you went down faster than Gerry Cooney ;)

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:17 PM
Are the Reds trying to hide it? ;)Reeks of the DanO regime, I think...

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:18 PM
You've got to think Bergolla sees the handwriting on the wall.Bergolla has always projected as a utility MIF type because of no power and no BBs. His offense ability(which is minimal) is entirely batting average driven, which is not a good thing.

shredda2000
04-07-2006, 03:18 PM
I think the Reds will reveal it when ALL the dealing is done folks...

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:19 PM
I think the Reds will reveal it when ALL the dealing is done folks...I hope that doesn't mean by the deadline of June 15th....

NC Reds
04-07-2006, 03:20 PM
Put me down for being against this. He got designated for assignment for a reason. I don't see the upgrade over what the Reds already have.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:21 PM
I wonder if Phillips would be a better SS than Lopez?
Might improve the D with Lopez at 2nd.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:22 PM
I wonder if Phillips would be a better SS than Lopez?

It's a thought. There was a ball hit up the middle last night that he missed by at least a glove's length that made me wonder if his range exceeds Aurilia's :evil:

nkufan
04-07-2006, 03:22 PM
The Reds website now has the trase on it. The Reds website has to be the slowest in baseball

M2
04-07-2006, 03:22 PM
He's depth with some potential upside. I certainly don't mind the Reds seeing if they can get something out of this guy.

westofyou
04-07-2006, 03:23 PM
The Reds website now has the trase on it. The Reds website has to be the slowest in baseball
They're still using those 386's that Mmarge bought in 92

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:23 PM
The Braves need a LF and a lead off hitter. I wouldn't be surprised to see Freel headed there.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:23 PM
The Braves need a LF and a lead off hitter. I wouldn't be surprised to see Freel headed there.
:(

Can't we sell them on the greatness that is Womack?

puca
04-07-2006, 03:24 PM
I would hope they would leave Lopez alone. At least for this year.

Brandon Phillips is a long shot. Don't jerk Lopez around unless Brandon Phillips shows he's a major leaguer.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:24 PM
since phillips isnt due to report to cincinnati until saturday, does that mean that a move on tht 25 man isnt due until saturday as well? or is a move needed immediately?Saturday

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:24 PM
:(

Can't we sell them on the greatness that is Womack?


uh, no.

M2
04-07-2006, 03:24 PM
The Braves need a LF and a lead off hitter. I wouldn't be surprised to see Freel headed there.

I love Freel, but if he'll fetch an arm, then I'd be for moving him.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:25 PM
I would hope they would leave Lopez alone. At least for this year.I would agree, try Phillips at 2nd. Don't screw with Lopez at this point.

Heath
04-07-2006, 03:25 PM
:(

Can't we sell them on the greatness that is Womack?

They need an old vet to replace Julio Franco, and Womack's at LEAST 10 years younger.

Vote Womack, Atlanta, you'd be glad you did :thumbup:

max venable
04-07-2006, 03:25 PM
Wow, you went down faster than Gerry Cooney ;)
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1982/1101820614_400.jpg

BuckU
04-07-2006, 03:25 PM
Per Marc...


Phillips in the fold

Old news by now, I know (been away from the computer for a while), but the Reds have acquired infielder Brandon Phillips from the Indians for a player to be named or cash.

Phillips, 24, was long considered one of the top prospects around, and thought to be the key to the Bartolo Colon deal a few years ago. Grady Sizemore and Cliff Lee ended up providing quite a bit more return for the Tribe.

He'll be on the Reds' active roster, though a corresponding move won't be made until Sunday. Matt Kata was designated for assignment to make room for Phillips on the 40-man.

Another interesting pickup. I keep waiting for a really big domino to fall somewhere here, considering all the catchers, second basemen and outfielders floating around. Stay tuned, I guess.

Bill
04-07-2006, 03:26 PM
NC, he was DFA'd because Shapiro is going for the pennant and sees Vasquez as being the better bench player. BP is not suited for the bench due to his questionable attitude and his lack of ML experience.

Shapiro is a big character guy and often just prefers to cut the cord and that's what he has done here. If Peralta had not developed and just signed a long-term deal, BP would still be in Cleveland however I believe.

Again, good potential reward. low risk and the Reds need talent.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:26 PM
I would agree, try Phillips at 2nd. Don't screw with Lopez at this point.

I wouldn't do it this year either. I'd give it some serious thought next year though.

Heath
04-07-2006, 03:26 PM
sounds like Marc's even lost.

Aronchis
04-07-2006, 03:27 PM
I wouldn't bother Felipe right now. He has such tender feelings, he could fall into a moody slump if you tried and move him.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:28 PM
I see Abad being the out man out.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:28 PM
I wouldn't bother Felipe right now. He has such tender feelings, he could fall into a moody slump if you tried and move him.

those teardrop tatoos don't mean you have tender feelings. JK. :)

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:29 PM
They're still using those 386's that Mmarge bought in 92When did they get rid of the TRS-80's??

westofyou
04-07-2006, 03:30 PM
http://img.timeinc.net/time/magazine/archive/covers/1982/1101820614_400.jpg

Risin up
back on the street
did my time took my chances

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:30 PM
When did they get rid of the TRS-80's??

I thought they had Amiga's.

Blimpie
04-07-2006, 03:31 PM
Risin up
back on the street
did my time took my chances:runaway: :runaway: :runaway:

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:32 PM
sounds like Marc's even lost.this move makes no sense looked at in isolation at this point in time. We will have to wait until Krivsky is finished to get a better idea of what he is attempting to do(besides the obvious of improve the club now and tomorrow).

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:32 PM
That cover is creepy..just..so...creepy.

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 03:33 PM
At some point they've got to open Imelda Marcos' closet - then the other shoes will be dropping all over the place. There has to be something else coming down. This doesn't make sense otherwise, and I think Krivsky's smarter than this. But that dang closet is getting full and people are falling all over those catchers and middle infielders everywhere they turn! :laugh:

Johnny Footstool
04-07-2006, 03:33 PM
If Krivsky ends up paying only cash (like the $1.5 million he acquired from the Red Sox in the Pena deal), I'll be in awe of his farsightedness and canny negotiating abilities.

shredda2000
04-07-2006, 03:34 PM
I thought they had Amiga's.

...or Commodore 64's...

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:34 PM
Cooney looks like
http://z.about.com/d/crime/1/0/w/6/buttafuoco.jpg

a certain auto mechanic

Johnny Footstool
04-07-2006, 03:35 PM
That cover is creepy..just..so...creepy.

Maybe it's "The Great White Hope" factor?

Guacarock
04-07-2006, 03:36 PM
Abad will be the odd man out to make room for either Phillips or the return of Larue on Monday.

Still means another move has to be made -- probably a trade (involving Aurilia or Womack), a release (of Womack), a DFA (Ross) or a trade (perhaps to Cleveland) of bullpen fodder like White so the Indians can cut even bigger fodder like Graves.

I don't see Freel going. The Reds might well need and want him to man CF once the inevitable shoe drops and Griffey gets dealt, which could come as early as mid-summer, for all we know.

CTA513
04-07-2006, 03:37 PM
For PTBNL or cash, per Reds press notes. He'll wear #4 and join the team tomorrow. Matt Kata was DFA'd, a roster move for the 25 man will be announced tomorrow.

PTBNL is Dunn. ;)

Roy Tucker
04-07-2006, 03:39 PM
Phillips could turn out to be another phoenix from the ashes like Jose Guillen. The Reds got Guillen for peanuts and flipped him for Harang. Not a bad thing.

One can only hope.

BuckU
04-07-2006, 03:40 PM
Abad will be the odd man out to make room for either Phillips or the return of Larue on Monday.

And to think all those stories in this week's papers about Abad and he's might not even be here a week...

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 03:41 PM
From the Indians Fans Forum boards:


From: exileincincy 3:33 pm
To: ALL (3 of 6)

23148.3 in reply to 23148.2

An unlikely destination since the Reds have a glut of middle infielders (although nobody of note). The Reds farm system is one of the weakest in baseball so if a player is exchanged don't expect much. Apparently the market for BP was much weaker than the one for Tadano. Oh well, bye bye Brandon, we hardly knew ye.

From: wartwart2 3:33 pm
To: stindawg unread (4 of 6)

23148.4 in reply to 23148.1

The Indians get a 12 pack of Pepsi and 3 easy payments of just $39.95.


From: kracksdomes 3:35 pm
To: wartwart2 unread (5 of 6)

23148.5 in reply to 23148.4

I think we could have gotten some skyline chili out of this deal don't you think.

From: red33 3:35 pm
To: stindawg unread (6 of 6)

23148.6 in reply to 23148.1

Good for Brandon. As a utility player in the NL he will have more opportunities to come off the bench than he would here. He needs a fresh start.

registerthis
04-07-2006, 03:42 PM
The only way Freel goes is if he's bringing some solid pitching in return--and for that I'd be all for a trade.

But if it's moving guys simply to get them off the team, there's no way that player will be Freel. Womack appears the most likely suspect, but we'll see.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 03:42 PM
I don't mind trading pepsi and skyline, but I am TICKED if we are sending the 39.95 we were going to use on the magic bullet.

NatiRedGals
04-07-2006, 03:43 PM
Interesting once agian it keys my idea theres gonna be a trade coming soon!:) Most likely bye bye rich!

traderumor
04-07-2006, 03:43 PM
I'm not sure why Abad would be moved, even with LaRue coming back. Ross is gone when Jason returns and this move should (careful choice of word there) result in swapping out one of our baker's dozen of second sackers.

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 03:43 PM
:laugh:
I don't mind trading pepsi and skyline, but I am TICKED if we are sending the 39.95 we were going to use on the magic bullet.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:46 PM
The only way Freel goes is if he's bringing some solid pitching in return--and for that I'd be all for a trade.I honestly could see Freel him going to the Mets(who need both a 2b and a leadoff hitter). Reyes is an awful leadoff hitter, he never walks. I imagine the Reds would want Heilman who the Mets really don't need in the pen.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:46 PM
Phillips could turn out to be another phoenix from the ashes like Jose Guillen. The Reds got Guillen for peanuts and flipped him for Harang. Not a bad thing.

One can only hope.

The Reds have to take these types of risks IMO if they want to turn things around in any kind of semi quick fashion.

Kc61
04-07-2006, 03:48 PM
this move makes no sense looked at in isolation at this point in time. We will have to wait until Krivsky is finished to get a better idea of what he is attempting to do(besides the obvious of improve the club now and tomorrow).

Well, for one thing Krivsky is trying to upgrade the infield defense which is a big concern. Phillips looks to me like a young Pokey Reese type, which the Reds can afford with its strong offense. At minimum Phillips is a late inning defensive replacement at second base.

But given the team's roster, the move sure is curious. Here are some possibiities:

Denorfia or Abad go to AAA. This would require Freel to play more outfield because team would have very little outfield depth. I don't like this scenario because it creates another 4 starting outfielder problem with Freel, who deserves a lot of playing time. If Abad goes, team probably needs to keep three catchers so Valentin can be lefty pinchhitter.

Womack, Freel or Aurilia get traded. I agree with other posts that Freel is most logical because he has value, the others don't.

Biggest longshot: An outfielder gets traded (Griffey, most likely) with Freel moving to outfield thereby reducing the infield logjam. This gets Freel a steady job and improves outfield defense, but reduces team power.

To complicate things further, Larue comes back next week so the three catcher question is presented again.

westofyou
04-07-2006, 03:50 PM
The Reds have to take these types of risks IMO if they want to turn things around in any kind of semi quick fashion.Plus getting a young guy who can be turned on to another position before he costs too much can also be help out the team, the Reds need to take more chances on YOUNG guys, often projects like Philiips wake up when they get jettisoned by a team... sometimes you have to find out that you don't float everyones boat as much as you thought.

My take is the Reds will tell Brandon that he's now on his 3rd organization and he should decide if he wants to be a B/U or a starter in MLB, then I'd tell him about Willie Greene and Chris Brown.

Strikes Out Looking
04-07-2006, 03:50 PM
Actually, this fills a need --a middle infielder that can actually field. In my gut, I believe Krivsky is working on a deal to shore up the bullpen. I don't think anyone will take Womack, but Aurilia may be moveable, possibly with Ross? Or maybe Aurilia and Valentin for someone halfway decent?

At least Krivsky is keeping things interesting and keeping us guessing.

CrackerJack
04-07-2006, 03:51 PM
The Reds can now trade three 2nd baseman and 2 catchers for a bullpen guy who doesn't suck!

Quantity over quality!

flyer85
04-07-2006, 03:52 PM
Biggest longshot: An outfielder gets traded (Griffey, most likely) with Freel moving to outfield thereby reducing the infield logjam. This gets Freel a steady job and improves outfield defense, but reduces team power.If an OF got traded I honestly think Denorfia would get the job. He has speed, decent power and a tremendous approach at the plate. I really enjoy watching him hit. He had an excellent AB to start the rally in the 8th. He is Brady Clark with more speed and power.

pedro
04-07-2006, 03:52 PM
At least Krivsky is keeping things interesting and keeping us guessing.

no doubt.

Guacarock
04-07-2006, 03:53 PM
I'm not sure why Abad would be moved, even with LaRue coming back. Ross is gone when Jason returns and this move should (careful choice of word there) result in swapping out one of our baker's dozen of second sackers.

You might be right, there! Perhaps Krivsky will cut right to the chase and (ahem!) move a second sacker.

But Abad does look to be on the cusp, with the logjam of reserve outfielders stacking up in Louisville. I notice that Terrence Long's name hasn't appeared on the Bats' roster yet. Maybe Long joins the Reds, Abad goes to Cleveland to complete the Phillips trade and a second sacker gets the boot as well.

edabbs44
04-07-2006, 03:53 PM
I like the move, but I am in agreement that this has to be the small move b/f the bigger one. Let's hope there is some bullpen help coming our way. And fast.

kbrake
04-07-2006, 03:55 PM
I really could see this team carrying 3 catchers because I think Narron likes the idea of Valentin as a PH but does not like the idea of using his only back-up catchter to PH. Also I think Freel is good as gone, although like many of you I am hoping this means the end to Womack.

Bill
04-07-2006, 03:56 PM
Also keep in mind that Krivsky knows the tribe well. So he was not a fan of Tadano or Tallet, but he sees something in BP and I think that is more than a Pokey lite.

Fwiw, most tribe fans wanted to keep BP over Vasquez.

blumj
04-07-2006, 03:58 PM
I honestly could see Freel him going to the Mets(who need both a 2b and a leadoff hitter). Reyes is an awful leadoff hitter, he never walks. I imagine the Reds would want Heilman who the Mets really don't need in the pen.
I actually think the Mets will need Heilman rather badly before it's all said and done. But I wouldn't be stunned if Omar Minaya doesn't realize that yet. I wouldn't even be stunned if he actually had interest in Womack.

redsfan30
04-07-2006, 03:58 PM
Womack will not be released, especially based on what he's done so far this year. He'll either be traded or he'll be on the 25 man roster, nothing else. He won't be released.

BuckU
04-07-2006, 04:00 PM
Perhaps a deal including Kearns and one of the 2nd baseman for pitching? Kearns had a decnet spring, especially the second half and has had a pretty good first three games. His trade value is higher now than anytime in the last 1.5 years.

Then plug in Denorfia and/or Freel, provided he isn't the 2nd baseman traded, to RF. I, like many others, have been extremely pleased with Denorfia's approach and overall play. I think he would be an excellent addition to the everyday lineup.

pedro
04-07-2006, 04:02 PM
Womack will not be released, especially based on what he's done so far this year. He'll either be traded or he'll be on the 25 man roster, nothing else. He won't be released.


I wouldn't be so sure.

I think Krivsky has been showcasing him hoping for a trade. (longshot)

ochre
04-07-2006, 04:02 PM
That cover is creepy..just..so...creepy.
I know. There's no way Gerry's shorter than Stallone. Never seen a 5'5" heavyweight.

deltachi8
04-07-2006, 04:02 PM
Plus getting a young guy who can be turned on to another position before he costs too much can also be help out the team, the Reds need to take more chances on YOUNG guys, often projects like Philiips wake up when they get jettisoned by a team... sometimes you have to find out that you don't float everyones boat as much as you thought.

My take is the Reds will tell Brandon that he's now on his 3rd organization and he should decide if he wants to be a B/U or a starter in MLB, then I'd tell him about Willie Greene and Chris Brown.

Not a suprise, but excellent post.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 04:03 PM
Perhaps a deal including Kearns and one of the 2nd baseman for pitching? Kearns had a decnet spring, especially the second half and has had a pretty good first three games. His trade value is higher now than anytime in the last 1.5 years. with the annual gimpiness of Jr I can't see the Reds trading Kearns at this point.

Aronchis
04-07-2006, 04:04 PM
Womack's got gmoney, no way we release him now, Cast is gonna want value from the payment(and won't get it, but business is business).

I doubt Kearns will be traded as long as Dunn is here. I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds/Dunn had a handshake agreement that as long as Dunn is in Cincy, so is Kearns. It may not be fair, but Dunn has Kearns's back. Being the player Adam Dunn is, he has that power.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 04:07 PM
Womack's got gmoney, no way we release him nowat this point it is a sunk cost making releasing him entirely possible. The only logical moves are to play him almost everyday or release him. He has little value as a utility player.

BuckU
04-07-2006, 04:08 PM
Womack's got gmoney, no way we release him now, Cast is gonna want value from the payment(and won't get it, but business is business).

I doubt Kearns will be traded as long as Dunn is here. I wouldn't be surprised if the Reds/Dunn had a handshake agreement that as long as Dunn is in Cincy, so is Kearns. It may not be fair, but Dunn has Kearns's back. Being the player Adam Dunn is, he has that power.

Maybe they had that "agreement" with JimBo and OB, but I highly doubt that Krivsky buys that. He has no prior loyalties to any of these guys...

Aronchis
04-07-2006, 04:09 PM
Maybe they had that "agreement" with JimBo and OB, but I highly doubt that Krivsky buys that. He has no prior loyalties to any of these guys...

Who signed Dunn to the LTC however? Mr.Krivsky........

ochre
04-07-2006, 04:09 PM
Bronson once had a hand shake deal...

BuckU
04-07-2006, 04:11 PM
Who signed Dunn to the LTC however? Mr.Krivsky........
That, in now way, guarantees a permanent spot on the roster. Ask Bronson Arroyo how that works out...

traderumor
04-07-2006, 04:11 PM
we are only out $1M on Womack. If no one wanted him, a DFA would be a drop in the bucket in a $60M budget.

Aronchis
04-07-2006, 04:12 PM
That, in now way, guarantees a permanent spot on the roster. Ask Bronson Arroyo how that works out...

Bronson didn't have Adam Dunn watching his back.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 04:12 PM
we are only out $1M on Womack. If no one wanted him, a DFA would be a drop in the bucket in a $60M budget.at this point unless a player has a split contract they are going to get their money for the season.

ochre
04-07-2006, 04:14 PM
Bronson didn't have Adam Dunn watching his back.
umm. Adam's the one with the hand shake deal?

redsfan30
04-07-2006, 04:14 PM
I wouldn't be so sure.

I think Krivsky has been showcasing him hoping for a trade. (longshot)
You're exactly right, he could be traded. I just see no scenario, at least right now, that has him getting DFA'd or released.

BuckU
04-07-2006, 04:16 PM
Bronson didn't have Adam Dunn watching his back.

You're right. But he was buddies with the man who traded him away...

Regardless, Kearns is not safe because he is buddies with Dunn. The objective here is to improve the club. If that means trading Kearns, I don't think that Castinelli/Krivsky would hesitate just because they were drafted together.

That kind of thinking is why this club is in the position it is today...

CTA513
04-07-2006, 04:16 PM
I hope they give them cash or a crappy player, I dont want to see that they gave up someone that they just drafted last year thats doing good.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 04:18 PM
I hope they give them cash or a crappy player, I dont want to see that they gave up someone that they just drafted last year thats doing good.PTBNL or cash means that Cleveland won't be getting anything of real value.

Doc. Scott
04-07-2006, 04:21 PM
Besides, you can't trade someone you drafted until a year has passed, if I'm not mistaken.

danforsman
04-07-2006, 04:22 PM
What quality of pitcher could a LaRue/Freel package net?

pedro
04-07-2006, 04:22 PM
What quality of pitcher could a LaRue/Freel package net?


Pretty good IMO.

flyer85
04-07-2006, 04:26 PM
What quality of pitcher could a LaRue/Freel package net?depends on who might need a C/2B combo. I think separate deals are more likely.

Peyton's Place
04-07-2006, 04:27 PM
My thought is that w/Phillips arriving, unless Womack goes, Denorfia will be sent down just for the fact the front office wants him to play everyday and that will not happen in Cincy. When Larue comes back, I would think Abad is gone and Valentin will serve the role of LH PH. I also think Aurillia is safe in all of this as Narron seems to love his versatility and he is the insurance policy for EE at 3rd. Womack, who was not a Krivsky acquisition, I would think would be on a short leash based upon lack of versatility, age and is relatively cheap.

Freel is a nice luxury to have but if he brings an improved arm to the club, I am fine moving him. He is versatile, but not sure his style of play endears him to be an everday player and hold up over a full season.

Finally, does anyone know if Phillips is strictly a 2B/SS or does he have experience at 3b?

lollipopcurve
04-07-2006, 04:27 PM
What quality of pitcher could a LaRue/Freel package net?

Good enough. Wouldn't be surprised to see Wagner included. I'm thiking either Mets (would be Valentin instead of Larue) or Dodgers.

pedro
04-07-2006, 04:29 PM
Finally, does anyone know if Phillips is strictly a 2B/SS or does he have experience at 3b?

I don;t think he's played 3b although I'm sure he could. But I don't think he'll hit well enough to play there regularily.

traderumor
04-07-2006, 04:31 PM
at this point unless a player has a split contract they are going to get their money for the season.yes, our out of pocket on Womack is about $1M after the Yankees threw in money to take him off their hands.

Jaycint
04-07-2006, 04:38 PM
Maybe DanO has Doug Melvin's ear and can convince him to send us Capellan for a Womack/Aurilia package. Or if that fails slip him some date rape drug or something and forge the paperwork.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 04:40 PM
A perfect though to me was Phillips and Aurilia as backups for the IF and Abad and Deno for the OF.

Red Leader
04-07-2006, 04:43 PM
My thought is that w/Phillips arriving, unless Womack goes, Denorfia will be sent down just for the fact the front office wants him to play everyday and that will not happen in Cincy. When Larue comes back, I would think Abad is gone and Valentin will serve the role of LH PH. I also think Aurillia is safe in all of this as Narron seems to love his versatility and he is the insurance policy for EE at 3rd. Womack, who was not a Krivsky acquisition, I would think would be on a short leash based upon lack of versatility, age and is relatively cheap.

Freel is a nice luxury to have but if he brings an improved arm to the club, I am fine moving him. He is versatile, but not sure his style of play endears him to be an everday player and hold up over a full season.

Finally, does anyone know if Phillips is strictly a 2B/SS or does he have experience at 3b?


Good post, Peyton.

I agree.

I think the most likely to be dealt are: 1 of Ross, Valentin, and LaRue, and Womack. Womack doesn't offer any position flexibility, he wasn't a Krivsky acquisition, and has several players breathing on him, mostly a fan favorite and media favorite, Ryan Freel. Don't take that for granted. That means something to the new owners.

I thought Phillips at one time, had been moved to 3B by the Indians at some point, but was quickly moved back to SS/2B as his bat wasn't good enough to stay there full time.

realreds1
04-07-2006, 04:46 PM
Here's a funny comment from Lancaster's blog...


It's actually very clever. If the Reds acquire ALL the second basemen and catchers in the league, we'll have a monopoly. And, if we own them all, other teams will have to pay us a king's ransom to get one. Don't be surprised if they trade for Bill Mazerowski next. Bulldog Steve

You know... Bulldog Steve might have something there! In the game of hearts, don't they call this "shooting the moon"?

PuffyPig
04-07-2006, 04:48 PM
I think this is a great aquisition.

Phillips was often compared to Barry Larkin. I know his hitting has slipped, but his early minor league numbers were very good.

He already has a great glove. he doesn't have to hit that much to be pretty valuable. I think Lopez is a good comparison.

I think the Reds could easily find a taker for Womack if need be. Lets hope thay can and they do. Because I like the idea of having great range up the middle in the infield. It'll be like 1999 all over again. And our pitching sure could use it.

Team Clark
04-07-2006, 04:51 PM
Besides, you can't trade someone you drafted until a year has passed, if I'm not mistaken.

That is correct. However, I believe there is a loophole if the player has Major League service time.

Doc. Scott
04-07-2006, 04:51 PM
What quality of pitcher could a LaRue/Freel package net?

My thought was at least someone the quality of Bronson Arroyo or Brandon Claussen- maybe a #3. Probably better than Dave Williams.

Plus, we'd be divesting about, what, $5.5-6MM in salary? So we could get someone who's being paid reasonably well without having to get back that other guy, Pile O. somebody, in return.

Falls City Beer
04-07-2006, 04:52 PM
Bowden.

Crash Davis
04-07-2006, 04:59 PM
My thought was at least someone the quality of Bronson Arroyo or Brandon Claussen- maybe a #3. Probably better than Dave Williams.

Plus, we'd be divesting about, what, $5.5-6MM in salary? So we could get someone who's being paid reasonably well without having to get back that other guy, Pile O. somebody, in return.

Any hope of Jeff Francis?

MartyFan
04-07-2006, 05:01 PM
I like Phillips and as others have said on the board think that a change of locations may be good for the guy...lets face it...if he is Pkey lite...that is okay...we have offense and our middle IF defense SUCKS...so...this is a good thing.

M2
04-07-2006, 05:02 PM
Any hope of Jeff Francis?

I figure there will come a time where you can deal Kearns for him. It's not like there's any real danger of a pitcher putting up gaudy numbers in Colorado.

Crash Davis
04-07-2006, 05:09 PM
I figure there will come a time where you can deal Kearns for him. It's not like there's any real danger of a pitcher putting up gaudy numbers in Colorado.

You don't think a Freel/LaRue/Throw-in will cut it?

With Torrealba injured, Ardoin being a feckless journeyman and Closser as persona non grata in the Rockies organization, LaRue could fill a sizable need for them.

You know that Cory Sullivan won't hit, and I know he won't hit, but how long will take O'Dowd/Hurdle to give up on him? They desperately need a legit lead-off man, and Freel could play CF/2B for them while leading off.

Crazy as it sounds, it appears that the Rockies believe they have a shot out West this season. When they're all healthy, they think they have 7 starting pitchers...and Francis has not pitched any better than the rest of them since midway through last season.

Probably wishful thinking. Why don't get them to throw in Shealy while we're at it?

pedro
04-07-2006, 05:13 PM
I still think Atlanta needs Freel the most.

M2
04-07-2006, 05:15 PM
You don't think a Freel/LaRue/Throw-in will cut it?

With Torrealba injured, Ardoin being a feckless journeyman and Closser as persona non grata in the Rockies organization, LaRue could fill a sizable need for them.

You know that Cory Sullivan won't hit, and I know he won't hit, but how long will take O'Dowd/Hurdle to give up on him? They desperately need a legit lead-off man, and Freel could play CF/2B for them while leading off.

Crazy as it sounds, it appears that the Rockies believe they have a shot out West this season. When they're all healthy, they think they have 7 starting pitchers...and Francis has not pitched any better than the rest of them since midway through last season.

Probably wishful thinking. Why don't get them to throw in Shealy while we're at it?

That deal might do it too. Though the Rockies will get over the notion that the have a shot this season in May. That team has one of the worst offenses ever constructed.

At some point somebody has to have a light go on over there that until the team is scoring 1,000 runs a season, the pitching doesn't really matter. Mammoth offense, power relievers and journeyman starters is probably the prescription for that franchise. They should hire JimBo.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 05:24 PM
I still think Atlanta needs Freel the most.
I'm fearful of dealing with them, their prospects never seem to pan out.

pedro
04-07-2006, 05:26 PM
I'm fearful of dealing with them, their prospects never seem to pan out.

at least for other teams.

The key is asking for the right guy a al Jason Schmidt.

StRedlegs900
04-07-2006, 05:27 PM
Hey all, I'm new here and just wanted to say hi. I look forward to posting on here! And, for a shameless plug...if any Bengals fans on here like to post, head to www.cincybengals.com . That's a good site with some cool fans!

Anyhow, on the thread topic, I really like this trade. If there's anything this team has a shortage of, it's pitching and DEFENSE. Yea, Phillips needs to work on his offense, but this team has plenty of offense. If the Reds are going to win games, it has to have good defense and good pitching (and especially great defense with the terrible pitching the Reds have had).

Phillips automatically becomes the best 2nd baseman defensively, and it strengthens the weak middle of the field. We didn't give up hardly anything for him it seems, so I like it. We need to stock talent, and that's what Krivsky is doing.

Steve4192
04-07-2006, 05:35 PM
Sadly, Brandon Phillips will be the best 2B on the roster the second he joins the team. Crappy offense + stellar defense beats crappy offense + crappy defense every time. Throw in the fact that this team is going to score plenty of runs with or without any contribution from their 2B, and Phillips should step right into the lineup. Unfortunately, we all know that just ain't gonna happen.

Doc. Scott
04-07-2006, 05:48 PM
You don't think a Freel/LaRue/Throw-in will cut it?

With Torrealba injured, Ardoin being a feckless journeyman and Closser as persona non grata in the Rockies organization, LaRue could fill a sizable need for them.

You know that Cory Sullivan won't hit, and I know he won't hit, but how long will take O'Dowd/Hurdle to give up on him? They desperately need a legit lead-off man, and Freel could play CF/2B for them while leading off.

Crazy as it sounds, it appears that the Rockies believe they have a shot out West this season. When they're all healthy, they think they have 7 starting pitchers...and Francis has not pitched any better than the rest of them since midway through last season.

Probably wishful thinking. Why don't get them to throw in Shealy while we're at it?

Heh. If Wayne Krivsky trades Jason LaRue and Ryan Freel for Jeff Francis and Ryan Shealy, I'll chop off and mail him my pinky finger so he can make the Dr. Evil pose without using his own.

reds44
04-07-2006, 05:50 PM
Bye bye Mr. Abad. (don't know that for sure, but I think it will happen).

I also think either RA or Freel is going to be traded for a reliever.

redsmetz
04-07-2006, 05:51 PM
I'm fearful of dealing with them, their prospects never seem to pan out.

Amen to that!

wheels
04-07-2006, 06:11 PM
A full year of Phillips might be better than a full year of Tony Womack offensively.

Phillips is a heckuva defensive player, therefore I can't see the need for Womack now (as if I ever did).

I like the pickup.

reds44
04-07-2006, 06:18 PM
Looks like Phillips we be the backup SS.


From Wayne Krivsky (who pointed out several times that Phillips played 111 games at short last year):
-Marc

gm
04-07-2006, 06:25 PM
Besides, you can't trade someone you drafted until a year has passed, if I'm not mistaken.

The Phillip's deal doesn't have to be consummated until 6/15...what was the date of last year's amateur draft?

OnBaseMachine
04-07-2006, 06:29 PM
The Phillip's deal doesn't have to be consummated until 6/15...what was the date of last year's amateur draft?

I think you can't trade a player until a year after he signs.

NewEraReds
04-07-2006, 06:42 PM
i dont see how people can be mad about this. we picked up a player who is now our best defensive 2nd basemen and has upside for nothing.

OnBaseMachine
04-07-2006, 06:43 PM
Marc's blog:

From Wayne Krivsky (who pointed out several times that Phillips played 111 games at short last year): "He hit 15 home runs in Triple-A last year. Sometimes you’d rather have a higher on-base percentage for a guy like him than hit a lot of home runs. I haven’t scouted him much myself, but I think we’d like to see him play the little man’s game a little bit more, and use the whole field to hit, and not be so conscious of hitting home runs. Whether that’s the case or not, we’re going to find out."

"This guy was pretty highly touted for a long time. People can second-guess a lot on whether he was brought up to the major leagues too early or not, but that’s neither here nor there now. We scouted him a lot this spring and we were willing to take a gamble on a guy like this, with his athletic ability and being a defensive-oriented middle infielder who I think can help us this year and in the future."

http://frontier.cincinnati.com/blogs/spring/2006/04/braintrust-speaks.asp#comments

wheels
04-07-2006, 06:43 PM
Looks like Phillips we be the backup SS.


-Marc

Or Lopez may be moved to 2B or traded....

He is a Boras client, afterall.

reds44
04-07-2006, 06:46 PM
Or Lopez may be moved to 2B or traded....

He is a Boras client, afterall.
Ummm no.

pedro
04-07-2006, 06:49 PM
i dont see how people can be mad about this. we picked up a player who is now our best defensive 2nd basemen and has upside for nothing.

he's our best defensive SS too.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 06:49 PM
Lopez at 2nd with a great glove guy at SS batting 8th isn't a bad plan.

pedro
04-07-2006, 06:52 PM
Lopez at 2nd with a great glove guy at SS batting 8th isn't a bad plan.


that's what I'd like to see in 2007.

hey and maybe phillips will hit a little.

reds44
04-07-2006, 06:53 PM
Lopez at 2nd with a great glove guy at SS batting 8th isn't a bad plan.
Actually your right it isn't, but Lopez isn't being traded.

savafan
04-07-2006, 06:58 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Kearns dealt, what with the article earlier this week that mentioned that he is still available.

Denorfia, Freel and Womack can all play outfield, so outfield is still an expendable position.

pedro
04-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Actually your right it isn't, but Lopez isn't being traded.

not now, but usually Boras clients do opt for free agency so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Reds flip him before he walks if they can't re-sign him (and at a reasonable rate)

pedro
04-07-2006, 06:59 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Kearns dealt, what with the article earlier this week that mentioned that he is still available.

Denorfia, Freel and Womack can all play outfield, so outfield is still an expendable position.

womack isn't a serious option in the OF. he's bad out there.

reds44
04-07-2006, 07:02 PM
womack isn't a serious option in the OF. he's bad out there.
Yes, but it still would give Deno and Freel more playing time.

pedro
04-07-2006, 07:02 PM
I think Freel is the more likley guy to get traded.

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 07:05 PM
I think Freel is the more likley guy to get traded.
Stop saying that :runawaycr

pedro
04-07-2006, 07:12 PM
Stop saying that :runawaycr


you'd rather trade kearns?

I wouldn't

letsgojunior
04-07-2006, 07:12 PM
I like this move, a lot

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 07:14 PM
you'd rather trade kearns?

I wouldn't
I'd rather trade Womack and Rich :devil:

I don't see what we'll get for Freel or Kearns that's better then what we have.

wheels
04-07-2006, 07:15 PM
not now, but usually Boras clients do opt for free agency so I wouldn't be surprised to see the Reds flip him before he walks if they can't re-sign him (and at a reasonable rate)

That's exactly what I'm thinking.

Let's say Lopez really blows up this year.....Boras would try to put the screws to 'em.

What if Phillips blossoms?

There's your plan B right there.

That, or let Felipe go all Roberto Alomar as a second baseman.

pedro
04-07-2006, 07:17 PM
I'd rather trade Womack and Rich :devil:

I don't see what we'll get for Freel or Kearns that's better then what we have.

I think Freel and one of the catchers could bring a really nice SP or 2 RP's.

reds44
04-07-2006, 07:18 PM
I think Freel and one of the catchers could bring a really nice SP or 2 RP's.
We need to relievers more then a starter right now, IMO.

pedro
04-07-2006, 07:20 PM
We need to relievers more then a starter right now, IMO.

we need both, but I hear you. Our RP sux.

Aronchis
04-07-2006, 07:22 PM
We need to relievers more then a starter right now, IMO.

We need starters more than relievers. Don't let the first 3 games change that view. As good starters progress through the season, they go longer in games and the bullpen is required less and less. The problem with the Reds, when they did have a good bullpen in the early 2000's, the starters sucked and the bullpen got run down by Summer.

Replacing Dave Williams and upgrading him with a better(maybe much better) option, is better than finding bullpen talent. We can deal with that later.

Krusty
04-07-2006, 07:27 PM
You want a team that could use Freel and LaRue? How about the Dodgers? The injury bug has already hit them. Freel could play LF and possibly CF (Lofton is on the DL). LaRue would be a one or possibly a two year rental because they have a highly touted catcher in Martin waiting in the wings.

But if you package a deal that includes Freel, LaRue and possibly Williams for LHP Odalis Perez and RHP John Broxton, would you do it?

cincyinco
04-07-2006, 07:28 PM
We need starters more than relievers. Don't let the first 3 games change that view. As good starters progress through the season, they go longer in games and the bullpen is required less and less. The problem with the Reds, when they did have a good bullpen in the early 2000's, the starters sucked and the bullpen got run down by Summer.

Replacing Dave Williams and upgrading him with a better(maybe much better) option, is better than finding bullpen talent. We can deal with that later.

Agree 100%. Think about how starting pitching has been such a difficult commodity to find for the Reds. Simply put, its much easier to find a guy with 2 avg pitches to plug into the pen, than it is to find a guy with 3 avg pitches to start in the rotation.

pedro
04-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Krusty loves him trade proposal with them dodgers.

I agree that they could use those guys and they do have a deep system from which to pluck.

Krusty
04-07-2006, 07:32 PM
Krusty loves him trade proposal with them dodgers.

I agree that they could use those guys and they do have a deep system from which to pluck.

Along with Minnesota, they have some of the best young talent in their farm system.

I'm just waiting for Krivsky to call Terry Ryan and make that first deal with the Twins.

NewEraReds
04-07-2006, 07:43 PM
Ummm no.
agree, lopez is the ONE position player i DO NOT move. id trade anyone on our team before him

reds44
04-07-2006, 07:43 PM
agree, lopez is the ONE position player i DO NOT move. id trade anyone on our team before him
I agree.

Lopez is the best all around player on our team.

NewEraReds
04-07-2006, 07:45 PM
You want a team that could use Freel and LaRue? How about the Dodgers? The injury bug has already hit them. Freel could play LF and possibly CF (Lofton is on the DL). LaRue would be a one or possibly a two year rental because they have a highly touted catcher in Martin waiting in the wings.

But if you package a deal that includes Freel, LaRue and possibly Williams for LHP Odalis Perez and RHP John Broxton, would you do it?
i hate perez, so no i wouldnt. i never want that guy on our team

KronoRed
04-07-2006, 07:46 PM
I'd take Perez if they take Milton

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2006, 07:54 PM
I don't think there is any doubt that Denorfia will be the guy sent down, he has options, was the last guy to join the team and p/u Phillips could allow for Freel to be that extra guy in the OF more often. So to me it's a no brainer although I would rather have Deno on this roster than probably 30% of the team. He can run, he can field and he can hit. He has the intangibles and 4/5 of the measurables. His only true weakness is he doesn't hit for power, but truly he seems like the type that could give you a bit of pop every now and then once he gets some experience. That said he makes some sense to be the move here.


I can envision the possibilty of Freel being the starter with Phillips being the late inning replacement for defense. That gives you the best of both worlds. And then you can make Aurilia the swingman between 1st and second and the occasional 3B. Of course that means you have to move Womack to someone who is willing to give up something to pay him 1 mill. to probably back-up someones MI. Right now it may not happen, perhaps though if someone goes down somewhere he might be a good fit.

Mario-Rijo
04-07-2006, 08:11 PM
From ESPN's coverage. Basically the same story as from Fox w/ the exception of a few more quotes.


The Indians had until 2 p.m. to place him on waivers or trade him.


"He would have been placed on waivers and he definitely would have been claimed," said Antonetti, who expects the Reds to use Phillips in a utility role. "There was that much interest."


The Reds seemed an unlikely fit. They've already got three second basemen -- Rich Aurilia, Tony Womack and Ryan Freel -- and an All-Star shortstop in Felipe Lopez.


"It wasn't too long ago that Brandon Phillips was one of the best prospects in baseball," Reds manager Jerry Narron said. "If you have a chance to get that type of player, you take a chance.


"I know it gives us too many guys at second, but that's just the chance we're going to take. We're going to do everything we can to try to make it work and try to get these pieces to fit."


Phillips was at his home in Georgia when the deal was struck. He plans to fly to Cincinnati on Saturday and be in uniform for Sunday's game against Pittsburgh.

wheels
04-07-2006, 08:15 PM
agree, lopez is the ONE position player i DO NOT move. id trade anyone on our team before him

I'm certainly not stumping for a Lopez trade.

Still, because of the reason I already stated, the possiblity is very real that Lopez/Boras could be a big pain in Krivsky's neck when the deal is up.

Wayne might want to wield the ultimate power and deal him for value to circumvent the situation.

Happens all the time.

Newman4
04-07-2006, 08:39 PM
You want a team that could use Freel and LaRue? How about the Dodgers? The injury bug has already hit them. Freel could play LF and possibly CF (Lofton is on the DL). LaRue would be a one or possibly a two year rental because they have a highly touted catcher in Martin waiting in the wings.

But if you package a deal that includes Freel, LaRue and possibly Williams for LHP Odalis Perez and RHP John Broxton, would you do it?

Alright Krusty, I like the Dodgers idea, but I'd substitute Kearns for Freel and Milton for Williams and ask for Penny instead of Perez and Brazoban included with Broxton.

TeamSelig
04-07-2006, 08:41 PM
Rich Aurilia will get alot of corner infield playing time, so I doubt he plays much at second base. Ryan Freel and Tony Womack will probably play a little bit of outfield, so I can see Phillips getting a few ABs here and there. Honestly, I think that BP will be our 25th man. Defensive substitutions, pinch running, etc. After this year is over, send him to winter ball. Maybe by the start of next year he will be ready for the big leagues.

I don't see how this is a sure sign that something else is in the works. Krivsky just realizes that our team is horrible, and you have to take low cost risks in order to succeed as a small market team. I think he is just trying to improve the team, even if it is a really minor move.

edabbs44
04-07-2006, 08:43 PM
Alright Krusty, I like the Dodgers idea, but I'd substitute Kearns for Freel and Milton for Williams and ask for Penny instead of Perez and Brazoban included with Broxton.


Let's get a hold of ourselves guys...Kearns, LaRue and Milton for Penny, Brazoban and Broxton? Broxton is one of the best pitching prospects in baseball and Milton is THE most overpriced, useless pitcher in baseball.

edabbs44
04-07-2006, 08:45 PM
Rich Aurilia will get alot of corner infield playing time, so I doubt he plays much at second base. Ryan Freel and Tony Womack will probably play a little bit of outfield, so I can see Phillips getting a few ABs here and there. Honestly, I think that BP will be our 25th man. Defensive substitutions, pinch running, etc. After this year is over, send him to winter ball. Maybe by the start of next year he will be ready for the big leagues.

I don't see how this is a sure sign that something else is in the works. Krivsky just realizes that our team is horrible, and you have to take low cost risks in order to succeed as a small market team. I think he is just trying to improve the team, even if it is a really minor move.


I am hoping you are wrong here. How long will it take for Aurilia, Freel or Womack to become a clubhouse cancer? Remember what it was like with the OF debacle the past few years. I have a feeling Aurilia is headed to Minny for some pitching.

buckeyenut
04-07-2006, 10:07 PM
Absolutely love this move. We need more like this.

Freel, LaRue and possibly Williams for LHP Odalis Perez or Penny and RHP John Broxton (or even Navarro and another pitching prospect since Broxton maybe unattainable) would work for me.

Freel and LaRue for Shealy and Francis would work even better, although I would love it to be Aurillia or Womack rather than Freel. I wish it was Freel starting at 2B, Shealy at 1B, Phillips backing up both 2B and SS and Denoforia backing up all three OF positions and maybe even Aurillia around backing up the whole IF. Obviously, Womack and LaRue for Shealy and Francis is an unbelievable pipe dream.

Superdude
04-07-2006, 10:51 PM
His only true weakness is he doesn't hit for power, but truly he seems like the type that could give you a bit of pop every now and then once he gets some experience.

He hit 20 homers last year. Denorfia won't be a major power threat, but I think he'll be able to hit 15+ per year.

max venable
04-07-2006, 10:54 PM
Did you guys hear Marty call Phillips a "Punch N Judy" hitter to Krivsky's face during the rain delay. Good ol' Marty. :thumbup:

Krusty
04-08-2006, 08:20 AM
How about Womack to the Marlins for a young arm? They need a leadoff hitter and have been looking for a veteran infielder that is affordable to play second base (where are you now Pokey Reese?).

deltachi8
04-08-2006, 10:07 AM
Because Freel will be considered an OF (or can be) I think Abad gets the ol' DFA (which was coming when LaRue was ready) buying a couple more days to see if there is another deal. Then if no deal, when LaRue comes back, Denorfia is back to AAA.

I personally like this move as it serves as a last chance wake up call thing for Phillips. He is still only 24 and is a better defensive option at 2b or ss than anyone on the roster.

I like the idea of next spring installing Phillips at ss and Lopez at 2nd.

Although WOY's thoughts of CF have me thinking...WOY, if you read this why would you move Phillips to CF?

NC Reds
04-08-2006, 10:39 AM
Phillips is a career .206 hitter in the big leagues, though admittedly there is a small sample size. I just don't get the excitement over acquiring someone so overhyped. I certainly would not trade anyone of value to clear room for him.

pedro
04-08-2006, 12:17 PM
How about Womack to the Marlins for a young arm? They need a leadoff hitter and have been looking for a veteran infielder that is affordable to play second base (where are you now Pokey Reese?).

No one is going to give the Reds anything of value for Tony Womack. I just don't see it.

tripleaaaron
04-08-2006, 01:59 PM
remember, just 2 years ago phillips was the prize in the cleveland indians deal that sent out Bartolo Colon and also brought in grady sizemore, I understand that players dont always live up to their hype, but why complain about acquiring a guy who was a top 20 prospect and once thought to be bigger than sizemore? There is no reason to complain about this move, YES we do now have 4 2nd basemen, but at what cost? say what you wish about freel, hes one of my favorite players as well, but he has more value as the 9th man. not as the everyday 2nd basemen, yes I would agree that prior to this move he is our best 2nd basemen and still is CURRENTLY, but this very cheap acquisition also gives us the opportunity to mov aurillia or womack whom you all seem to despise so much. whether that will happen is a different story but with everyone complaining about our depth of prospects it doesn't seem to make sense to complain about acquiring a top 20 prospect does it.

KronoRed
04-08-2006, 02:07 PM
Till Womack puts up GREAT stats for about 2 months he has negative trade value.

Gallen5862
04-10-2006, 12:04 AM
http://daytondaily.printthis.clickability.com/pt/cpt?action=cpt&title=Phillips+picks+a+number%2C+gets+cozy&expire=&urlID=17856091&fb=Y&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.daytondailynews.com%2Fsports% 2Fcontent%2Fsports%2Freds%2Fdaily%2F0410redsnotesw eb.html&partnerID=530
REDS NOTES

Phillips picks a number, gets cozy
By Hal McCoy

Dayton Daily News

CINCINNATI | Brandon Phillips always wore No. 7 on his back, but the Cincinnati Reds' latest infield coach Bucky Dent wears that numeral, causing general manager Wayne Krivsky to tell Dent, "There might be a Rolex watch in your future if Phillips really wants that number from you."

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Knowing that Barry Larkin was Phillips' favorite player, Krivsky offered him Larkin's old No. 11, but Phillips said, "No, he's my man. I can't wear his number.'"

Phillips, the club's most recent infield acquisition and a guy of whom scouts have compared to former Cincinnati infielder Pokey Reese, settled for No. 4 and on Sunday morning was settling into his clubhouse dressing stall.

"I heard Cincinnati was a team that might trade for me and that's nice because my favorite player growing up was Barry Larkin so it is nice to be on the same team he played for," said Phillips. "The first Braves game I ever went to he played shortstop for the Reds and made a lot of great plays. I've liked him ever since and always kept up with him."

Phillips considers himself both a shortstop and a second baseman, but because he played mostly second base last year he prefers second base — a position already shared by Tony Womack, Ryan Freel and Rich Aurilia. Phillips, though, may carry the most proficient glove.

"Whatever happens, happens and I'm just happy to be here, to tell you the truth," he said of his situation.

To his credit, he is bluntly honest about how he killed his career in Cleveland after carrying a can't-miss-superstar tag. He missed.

"The year 2003 just killed me," he said. "It was my rookie season and I got caught up in the atmosphere. I started good and I hit a walk-off home run and I said, 'Man, that was good,' and then all I heard was, 'The rookie did this and the rookie did that,' all the talk and the publicity and I got caught up in all that. It really hurt me. Then I got sent down and I got mad because I'd never had failure."

Phillips hadn't played in 10 days since the Indians designated him for assignment, but he stung a pinch-hit double Sunday in his first appearance. "He's very talented, being able to play shortstop and second base and we hope he can help us immediately and if not maybe he can help us in the future," said manager Jerry Narron.


Delay on LaRue

Disabled catcher Jason LaRue had another bullpen catching session to test his surgically repaired right knee Sunday and while he is eligible to come off the disabled list Monday, it won't happen.

Instead, he will be in Sarasota Tuesday catching pitcher Paul Wilson's start in extended spring training.

"We're not sure he is totally ready and we don't want to rush him," said general manager Wayne Krivsky. "We want to do the right thing and be smart."

Krivsky said when LaRue comes back the club is likely to carry three catchers (LaRue, Javier Valentin, David Ross) for a while.


He'd prefer infinity

After his first two appearances, relief pitcher Chris Hammond's earned run average was infinity. Because he hadn't recorded an out, his earned run average couldn't be figured.

On Saturday, he finally recorded an out and owns his own personal ERA, but probably wishes he didn't. It is 189.00 — one-third of an inning over three appearances (that's one out recorded), giving up five hits and two walks, with all seven base runners scoring.


What's up, Wayne?

With the jam-up in the infield that includes four second basemen and a roster that soon will include three catchers, it figures general manager Wayne Krivsky is hot on the trail of trade.

"Not really, nothing much going on," he said. "We're trying to do something with Matt Kata since we've designated him for assignment. We'd like to do something good for him in a trade that is almost something good for us."

Yes, Kata was a second baseman, too.

reds44
04-10-2006, 12:06 AM
The more I read things BP says, the more I like the kid.

Kc61
04-10-2006, 12:07 AM
If the Reds had some guts, they would immediately make Phillips the starting second baseman or the starting shortstop (with Lopez moving to second). Either way it dramatically upgrades the defense.

Then trade Griffey and give Freel his at bats in centerfield, along with Denorfia. Or trade Kearns and move Griff to right field. Get pitching in return.

These moves would dramatically improve the defense and would add more pitching. A trade, for example, of Kearns and Valentin for pitching, with Freel/Denorfia in center and Phillips in the infield would really improve the defensive side of this team. The offense would suffer a bit, but Kearns is hitting seventh anyway and Freel would get more at bats.

reds44
04-10-2006, 12:10 AM
If the Reds had some guts, they would immediately make Phillips the shortstop and Lopez the second baseman. This would dramatically improve the defense and, with some confidence, maybe Phillips would hit. Lopez would be annoyed, but he has played second and it suits him better since he doesn't have top range.

Then trade Griffey and give Freel his at bats in centerfield, along with Denorfia. Or trade Kearns and move Griff to right field. Get pitching in return.No,no,no BP needs work done on his swing desperatley. I could see him getting alot of PT later in the year, but not right now.

Kc61
04-10-2006, 12:16 AM
No,no,no BP needs work done on his swing desperatley. I could see him getting alot of PT later in the year, but not right now.

Well, with all the middle infielders you could make the move gradually. But one top defensive infielder and a defensive centerfielder would dramatically upgrade the defensive side of the team.

reds44
04-10-2006, 12:17 AM
Well, with all the middle infielders you could make the move gradually. But one top defensive infielder and a defensive centerfielder would dramatically upgrade the defensive side of the team.
Oh I agree Junior needs to be moved to a COF spot, but BP isn't ready to play everyday yet. He has alot of potential, and we need to handle him with care. You will probably see him late in the game alot as a defensive replacement.

Nugget
04-10-2006, 12:20 AM
I wouldn't classify Freel as a defensive centerfielder. He may have speed on his side but some of the lines and positions he gets himself into are awful. Not WMP awful but awful nonetheless.

Red White
04-10-2006, 12:35 AM
Krivsky offered him Larkin's old No. 11

Shouldn't #11 be off limits? I know it's not retired (yet,) but . . .

Gainesville Red
04-10-2006, 12:35 AM
I wouldn't classify Freel as a defensive centerfielder. He may have speed on his side but some of the lines and positions he gets himself into are awful. Not WMP awful but awful nonetheless.

It seems like I remember Freel's arm being pretty bad also. Could be wrong, it just seems like it.

KronoRed
04-10-2006, 04:19 AM
His arm is bad, if he's in the OF he needs to be out in left.

His speed helps though, but he also has a tendency to run over other OFers ;)

redsmetz
04-10-2006, 05:23 AM
Shouldn't #11 be off limits? I know it's not retired (yet,) but . . .

Yes, I was surprised by this too. Bravo to Phillips for having the sense to say "no".

REDREAD
04-10-2006, 07:03 AM
The Reds have to take these types of risks IMO if they want to turn things around in any kind of semi quick fashion.

Exactly. Phillips instantly becomes one of the Reds top 5 prospects. It's a low risk, potential high reward for a team that's rebuilding.

Wayne needs to keep picking up guys like this, and build up the talent base.

Blimpie
04-10-2006, 10:10 AM
Shouldn't #11 be off limits? I know it's not retired (yet,) but . . .I dunno, they sure didn't keep # 21 in the closet for long (Hatteberg) and Casey was just as popular when he left Cincy as was Larkin...if not more.

rdiersin
04-10-2006, 10:13 AM
I dunno, they sure didn't keep # 21 in the closet for long (Hatteberg) and Casey was just as popular when he left Cincy as was Larkin...if not more.

But Larkin is a HOF caliber player, and Casey is, well, not. If they are going to retire numbers, then I don't see any reason #11 should ever be worn by anyone else.

wally post
04-10-2006, 10:49 AM
I want to chime in with agreement on how well this kid dealt with the offer of Larkin's jersey - and his evaluation of his past problems/faults is awesome.
I'm looking forward to seeing him play regularly now! TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE TRADE NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOW NOWN OW NWO.........

Blimpie
04-10-2006, 02:02 PM
But Larkin is a HOF caliber player, and Casey is, well, not. If they are going to retire numbers, then I don't see any reason #11 should ever be worn by anyone else.Pete Rose is also of "HOF caliber" right? Yet, anybody with the stones to do so can ask for # 14 and get it. So, I'd say that popularity has as much to do with it as pure statistics.

That said, Casey was as popular a Red as we have seen in many years. When he departed, Larkin was a borderline pariah.

rdiersin
04-10-2006, 02:20 PM
Pete Rose is also of "HOF caliber" right? Yet, anybody with the stones to do so can ask for # 14 and get it. So, I'd say that popularity has as much to do with it as pure statistics.

That said, Casey was as popular a Red as we have seen in many years. When he departed, Larkin was a borderline pariah.

Isn't Pete's case not a good comparison? I mean Pete's number would be officially retired with a ceremony and everything, if it weren't for some other things. It seems to me it is retired, but its just not hanging on the wall.

registerthis
04-10-2006, 02:21 PM
Pete Rose is also of "HOF caliber" right? Yet, anybody with the stones to do so can ask for # 14 and get it.

I had understood that the Reds had unofficially 'retired' #14...nothing official, but you won't see anyone wearing it, either.

Blimpie
04-10-2006, 03:15 PM
My whole point is that player popularity remains a key component along with player career statistics. If you concede that this is true, then you must also concede that it was a little wierd to see #21 so quickly land on the back of soembody other that Sean Casey.

FWIW, I kinda like #44 staying with Eric Davis in the history books. I'm afraid that the current owner of that jersey number is primed to zoom past Eric the Red in all time favorite status. What to do then?

Danny Serafini
04-10-2006, 03:20 PM
Pete Rose is also of "HOF caliber" right? Yet, anybody with the stones to do so can ask for # 14 and get it. So, I'd say that popularity has as much to do with it as pure statistics.

Anyone can ask for it, but they're not going to get it. They're at the mercy of the clubhouse manager, and he's not releasing it.

Blimpie
04-10-2006, 03:22 PM
Anyone can ask for it, but they're not going to get it. They're at the mercy of the clubhouse manager, and he's not releasing it.So, retire it now so that Bernie Stowe can avoid the situation entirely. There is no point waiting for Pete to be reinstated to have some big grand ceremony. He's actually traveling in the opposite direction from reinstatement IMO....

registerthis
04-10-2006, 03:31 PM
So, retire it now so that Bernie Stowe can avoid the situation entirely. There is no point waiting for Pete to be reinstated to have some big grand ceremony. He's actually traveling in the opposite direction from reinstatement IMO....

If they retire it, I don't believe it can be for Pete. MLB wants to act as if his entire career never happened.

Chip R
04-10-2006, 03:44 PM
If they retire it, I don't believe it can be for Pete. MLB wants to act as if his entire career never happened.

They could do it for Pete, Jr. Just schedule the ceremonies after he gets out of jail. :evil: