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View Full Version : Say what you will about these signings - Aurilia, Womack, Kata, Ross, Phillips, etc.



GOREDSGO32
04-07-2006, 10:48 PM
I LOVE these moves. We're not giving anything up, they aren't holding anyone back, its a win win situation in my mind. It's helping to build a lot of trickle down depth into the minor leagues, which is nice because I like to see my Louisville Bats win for a change!

I can't see why peole get so uptight about these moves and make anyone the Reds sign out to be the whipping boy. It's not like they are spending anything on them, and its helping the minor leagues get more solid players to start winning. Worst case scenerio, they suck, you lose nothing really, and just drop them. I hope Krivsky keeps picking up depth like this, I would approve of even trading a big name or two for some DECENT prospects.

harangatang
04-08-2006, 12:18 AM
I would approve of even trading a big name or two for some DECENT prospects.
...The Reds, rebuilding since 1995...

MartyFan
04-08-2006, 12:24 AM
I don't mind Kata, Ross or Phillips...but Rich, Hatteberg, White, and Womack should be noplace near this team.

reds44
04-08-2006, 12:25 AM
Nothing wrong with Hatteberg, IMO. The rest of your list I genreally agree with.

Caveman Techie
04-08-2006, 10:59 AM
I have actually found myself rooting for the players you listed Goredsgo44, not because they are on the Reds and I want the Reds to do well. No, I found myself rooting for them because they have been so abused and hated on this board that my "under-dog syndrome" has kicked in.

Personally I'm loving the great start that most of them are enjoying. I know it most likely won't last for them and they will regress down to career norms, but maybe it will last long enough for Krivsky to shine one or two of them up and trade them for something.

NatiRedGals
04-08-2006, 11:32 AM
I argee with the list Womack and Hatteberg should be here though! Why dose everyone dislike Womack?

Strikes Out Looking
04-08-2006, 11:49 AM
Womack is disliked because:

1. Low on base average
2. Poor fielding
3. He takes at bats away from Ryan Freel, who has a better on base average and is a peskier baserunner.

dougdirt
04-08-2006, 12:11 PM
The problem is Womack is holding someone back. RYAN FREEL! What does the guy have to do to get a starting job in this city?!

I dont have a problem with Aurilia and Hatteberg platooning at first if Dunn wants to whine about not wanting to play first. However his defense in LF is killing us and we are only 4 games into the season. I will save that post for another topic though....

Caveman Techie
04-08-2006, 01:44 PM
Ryan Freel has not been able to stay healthy for an entire year with the playing time that he has gotten (which has been alot for a sub). What makes everyone think he would be able to stay healthy if he was starting? Besides Freel will get plenty of playing time as a super-sub in the infield and outfield, players need a rest/break or even time to get their head screwed on straight sometimes.

Oh and to address the low OPS of Womacks, he currently has a 1.127 OPS that doesn't look too low to me. If anything freel should be starting in place of Kearns right now till Tony Womack regresses to career norms, it's not like it's July and the Reds are 15 games back. The Reds are still playing to win which means you play the hot hands, and right now out of those three, the two hot hands are Freel and Womack.

dougdirt
04-08-2006, 01:59 PM
If he is the best option, you should play him. Play him until he isnt healthy. Give him a day off a week. 2 games isnt enough to base someones OPS off of. As for Kearns sitting down for Womack, are you kidding? If you wanted to say Kearns for maybe Denorfia, I might listen....but Womack?!

KronoRed
04-08-2006, 02:05 PM
It's been 4 games..look at the stats from the last few years.

Danny Serafini
04-08-2006, 03:01 PM
We're not giving anything up

Yes, they did give something up. In Womack's case it was Kevin Howard and Ben Himes, for Ross it was Bobby Basham, and while I don't yet know what they're giving up for Phillips he isn't going to be free. Why give up anything for players who add no value to the team?

Caveman Techie
04-08-2006, 03:28 PM
As for Kearns sitting down for Womack, are you kidding? If you wanted to say Kearns for maybe Denorfia, I might listen....but Womack?!

Actually I said sit Kearns for Freel not Womack. I know that 4 games does not a season make, but right now Womack is in a groove, and 4 games is enough to decide if you play the hot bat or not, I'm not saying that Womack is the starting 2nd baseman for the year just till he regresses to norms again. Then you start Freel at 2nd and put Kearns back out in RF full time.

dougdirt
04-08-2006, 03:35 PM
My bad redlegz....I really need to learn to read better.

toledodan
04-08-2006, 05:05 PM
the one thing about having both freel and womack is you can keep both of them fresh. there is always questions about freel's health but rotating those two will keep freel healthy and let him contibute all season. if freel continues to play this way he will force himself into the starting linup somewhere everyday. i still believe there is some kind of trade in the works. we can't continue to have all these extra players.

The Baumer
04-08-2006, 05:33 PM
I think subtracting WMP from the lineup has changed the team makeup a whole lot. You no longer have a feast or famine hitter at the back of the lineup and in his place you have a rotating door of more "small ball" guys who are pretty eager to show they can start everyday. There is a fire underneath these guys, at least for the time being. With Freel stealing bases left and right and creating runs, Womack punching singles over the infielders' heads, Hatteberg being his solid vet self, Kearns not worrying about being compared to any other young outfielders and Aurillia flashing the occasional home run power, I think the Reds lineup is more balanced without the Wily Mo.

realistic
04-08-2006, 05:34 PM
i totally agree with the original post.

at some point reality must set in. the first step in rebuilding is to put together a RESPECTABLE product. thats something o'brien and bowden never did realize. they wanted to be unrealistic dreamers, constantly rolling the dice with unproven players. are womack / hatterberg / ross allstars? not even close. but we all know they are major league players.

GOREDSGO32
04-08-2006, 05:49 PM
Yes, they did give something up. In Womack's case it was Kevin Howard and Ben Himes, for Ross it was Bobby Basham, and while I don't yet know what they're giving up for Phillips he isn't going to be free. Why give up anything for players who add no value to the team?

Career minor leaguers for players who would do twice as much in the minor leagues as those guys? It's not like those players are top prospects. The Reds minors are rated among the worst, if not the worst in MLB. They didn't give anything up for those players.

Reds1
04-08-2006, 06:28 PM
I don't mind Kata, Ross or Phillips...but Rich, Hatteberg, White, and Womack should be noplace near this team.

What has Hatteberg done that so many people dislike him. I love what I see from him. Has a HR, ok defense, a professional AB, etc. White has done a good job and right now our pen we have bigger problems then White. The bad thing is that many of these guys are out of options. AT some point we'll have to choose, but I like all the signings and Aurilia is pretty darn good.

Raisor
04-08-2006, 07:03 PM
What has Hatteberg done that so many people dislike him. I love what I see from him. .


That sub 700 OPS last year.

I like him fine as a bench player, not as a starter (even a platoon starter).

ochre
04-08-2006, 08:01 PM
Career minor leaguers for players who would do twice as much in the minor leagues as those guys? It's not like those players are top prospects. The Reds minors are rated among the worst, if not the worst in MLB. They didn't give anything up for those players.
Basham wouldn't be any worse than the Hammonds and Whites of the world. At major league minimums at that.

Aronchis
04-08-2006, 08:06 PM
Basham wouldn't be any worse than the Hammonds and Whites of the world. At major league minimums at that.

Basham? You could say the same thing about the Lizard, Gosling ete ete. Basham is dime a dozen.

ochre
04-08-2006, 08:31 PM
Basham? You could say the same thing about the Lizard, Gosling ete ete. Basham is dime a dozen.
Then Ross is a nickel.

Take another look at Basham's k rates in the minors. He's no et al.

Krusty
04-08-2006, 08:34 PM
Man, I would love to see what Krivsky could have done if he had an entire offseason to make some moves.

SidneySlicker
04-08-2006, 08:39 PM
It's early in the season and alot could and may very well change, that being said there are alot of "know-it-all" posters here who don't like eating crow. Those posters will continue to do whatever they can to disprove what the likes of Womack, Aurilia are doing here. Again I'm not saying these guys are world beaters, but they've shown so far that they belong here. There is something to be said about the importance of stats and all you statheads can speak on that, but there is also something to be said about playing the game the right way, and these guys do that. Do I feel that freel should be starting on an everyday basis? Yes. Right now things are going well so why fix what isn't broken?

ochre
04-08-2006, 08:45 PM
the mother of all small sample sizes.

Look at Womack's career stats. Look at the performance trends of all players not named Bonds after 35. There really won't be much need for "continue to do whatever they can to disprove" anything. Performance will speak for itself.

Hang around for a while and you'll see people are more than willing to eat their share of crow around here. There are plenty of people preparing the stew.

TeamBoone
04-08-2006, 11:04 PM
Right now things are going well so why fix what isn't broken?

Are you kidding me? Just because something isn't broken, doesn't mean it can't be improved. I used to work for Procter and Gamble; this was drummed into our heads on a daily basis. And I can't fault them for it, because that saying is just sooooo wrong.

Thank heaven the Reds aren't thinking that way.

Plus, they've only played five games.... and none of them against the Cards.

GAC
04-09-2006, 05:45 AM
I don't mind Kata, Ross or Phillips...but Rich, Hatteberg, White, and Womack should be noplace near this team.

Yes, I understand it's a small sample size, but Aurilia is producing for us this year so far....

.286 BA .579 SLG% .263 OB% .842 OPS

2 Hrs, 7 RBI's (leads the team), 11 TB's.

What kind of year will he have? Don't know.

But look at his stats/production last year too.

Now if the Reds are doing this in order to "showcase" Aurilia to get something out of him (because he is the best of the lot), then fine.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 10:59 AM
Yes, I understand it's a small sample size, but Aurilia is producing for us this year so far....

.286 BA .579 SLG% .263 OB% .842 OPS


75% of the time he comes to bat he makes an out.

Rich Aurilia might be Italian for Tony Batista.

GAC
04-10-2006, 05:26 AM
75% of the time he comes to bat he makes an out.

And what is it for the starters on this team?.....Dunn, Jr, Kearns, Lopez, etc.? What percentage of the time do they make an out when they come to the plate?

All I'm saying woy is that I like RA as a utility fielder. For the money we paid him last year, this guy did produce for us after he battled and came back from the groin strain the first month or so of the season.

I'm not saying the guy should be starting over anyone on a day to day basis.

E. Davis 44
04-10-2006, 07:54 AM
75% of the time he comes to bat he makes an out.

Rich Aurilia might be Italian for Tony Batista.


that can be said for most major leaguers...what's the point?
that is a good BA
2HR's and 7 RBI's and the guy is still hated. I think he is playing very well so far this season. I for one was glad he was the guy at the plate yesterday in the bottom of the 9th. I felt more secure with him batting than with most guys on this team. It didn't work out, but I still felt comfortable with him.

westofyou
04-10-2006, 10:05 AM
that can be said for most major leaguers...what's the point?

Now it can't, not most good MLB players... but please continue to believe that most MLB players make an out 75% of the time they come to bat, mark it down with some of the other myths that dance around the game.


I felt more secure with him batting than with most guys on this team.

Goody for you.

westofyou
04-10-2006, 10:12 AM
Dunn, Jr, Kearns, Lopez, etc.? What percentage of the time do they make an out when they come to the plate?Most good players in the low 60's (Dunn 63% for his career) as for the other guys a little higher.

FWIW Rich over his last 918 at bats makes an out 70% of the time he comes to bat.


All I'm saying woy is that I like RA as a utility fielder. True and as long as he's not in the middle infield I find him more tolerable, but I'm not thinking he's a difference maker on any level.

GAC
04-10-2006, 01:07 PM
True and as long as he's not in the middle infield I find him more tolerable, but I'm not thinking he's a difference maker on any level.

And I agree with you. I've never said he was a 'difference maker', but just a decent utility player.

BRM
04-10-2006, 01:10 PM
And I agree with you. I've never said he was a 'difference maker', but just a decent utility player.

I think most on here would agree with that statement. The venom usually spews when Rich is being used a regular, not as a reserve.

registerthis
04-10-2006, 01:18 PM
Right now things are going well so why fix what isn't broken?

And while we're at it, let's petition MLB to shorten the season to one week.

registerthis
04-10-2006, 01:21 PM
And what is it for the starters on this team?.....Dunn, Jr, Kearns, Lopez, etc.? What percentage of the time do they make an out when they come to the plate?

All I'm saying woy is that I like RA as a utility fielder. For the money we paid him last year, this guy did produce for us after he battled and came back from the groin strain the first month or so of the season.

I'm not saying the guy should be starting over anyone on a day to day basis.

That's how I feel. I've never had a problem with RA's production, only his attitude last year. This year, it seems, he's content to play the role where he best fits--utility infielder. If he's fine with his role, then I will happily accept him and his power potential coming off of our bench.

buckeyenut
04-10-2006, 07:29 PM
That's how I feel. I've never had a problem with RA's production, only his attitude last year. This year, it seems, he's content to play the role where he best fits--utility infielder. If he's fine with his role, then I will happily accept him and his power potential coming off of our bench.

This is exactly right. I like Rich as a player in the role he is playing of utility infielder. He is perfect for it and very valuable in that role.

The problem comes with the attitude of last year and the man-love for Aurillia by Narron which leads to overuse and him starting over others he should be starting over, like Freel.

Caveat Emperor
04-10-2006, 07:44 PM
Right now things are going well so why fix what isn't broken?

What about that big 47 RA in 6 games? Can we do something about that?

Part of fixing that starts with getting dead gloves like Rich Aurillia and Tony Womack out of the infield and back to the bench.