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View Full Version : Starters vs. Bullpen



reds44
04-08-2006, 05:54 PM
Starters:
IP: 30.1
ER: 21
(Harang has 11)

Relievers:
13.2 IP
ER: 16 ER


The starters outside of Harang have been really good, but the bullpen has been god awful!

harangatang
04-08-2006, 05:57 PM
Starters:
IP: 30.1
ER: 21
(Harang has 11)

Relievers:
13.2 IP
ER: 16 ER


The starters outside of Harang have been really good, but the bullpen has been god awful!
Harang has been pretty good too, I thought he pitched awesome today, but he doesn't have anything to show for it(Thanks Burns). The Reds better be trading those catchers and middle infielders for some relievers or we're going to see a really good team be under .500.

reds44
04-08-2006, 06:00 PM
Wagner and Shack could be a temporary solution until you do make a trade also.

And I agree Harang pitched pretty well today.

PTBNL
04-08-2006, 06:02 PM
Harang has been pretty good too, I thought he pitched awesome today, but he doesn't have anything to show for it(Thanks Burns).
Harang got the win.
What am I missing here? What did you mean to say?

reds44
04-08-2006, 06:03 PM
Harang got the win.
What am I missing here? What did you mean to say?
He gave up 5 ERs today. He could have very easily had a QS.

Matt700wlw
04-08-2006, 06:06 PM
He gave up 5 ERs today. He could have very easily had a QS.

technically, by the rules of baseball stats, yes he did, but that wasn't all on him - Mike Burns pretty much blew it for him. Either Harang shouldn't have pitched the inning or should have been allowed to attempt to get out of his jam...neither happened.

Stats don't tell the whole story

reds44
04-08-2006, 06:07 PM
technically, by the rules of baseball stats, yes he did, but that wasn't all on him - Mike Burns pretty much blew it for him.

Stats don't tell the whole story
I know. Read the two posts above mine and you will understand my post better.

Matt700wlw
04-08-2006, 06:08 PM
I know. Read the two post above mine and you will understand my post better.

Ok...my bad. :)

Bobcat J
04-08-2006, 06:10 PM
The way the bullpen has looked sort of makes me long to have Danny Graves back. He often got rocked, but he offset that with an occasional good outing. On the other hand, this pen has been like clockwork with giving up runs.

membengal
04-08-2006, 06:11 PM
Of Harang's 11 runs allowed so far this year, the bullpen has allowed all five inherited runners of his to score, which is, to not put to fine a point on it, shameful.

Harang will be this team's ace, and the 10 Ks to 0 BBs today shows that it is underway already.

wheels
04-08-2006, 06:11 PM
If anything, this opening week is more proof of how bad the relief corps really is.

There is no way the Reds continue at a winning clip if they're gonna need to score 7 runs per game.

harangatang
04-08-2006, 06:12 PM
Harang got the win.
What am I missing here? What did you mean to say?
I'll expand my statement to not only include the inability of Mike Burns to pitch. This bullpen SUCKS. Harang might have got the win today but if the bullpen continues to suck this bad, Harang will end up with more than the losses this bullpen handed him last year.

PTBNL
04-08-2006, 06:33 PM
Oh yeah, I agree, this bullpen is equivalent or worse than the '04 A's pen.
And people are shocked and appalled that a starter wouldn't want to pitch here. :laugh:
I just think you should look at it as a win, is a win, is a win. :)
Cross our fingers, hold our breath when need be, but hope HOPE someone DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT! SOON!

harangatang
04-08-2006, 06:41 PM
I just think you should look at it as a win, is a win, is a win. :)
A win is a win and Harang won 11 games last year, but unforunately he could've won alot more. It's going to be a wonder if the bullpen doesn't cost us a win tomorrow, but what's going to happen when the Reds start playing better clubs than Pittsburgh?


Cross our fingers, hold our breath when need be, but hope HOPE someone DOES SOMETHING ABOUT IT! SOON!
Ditto, the Reds better be dealing some middle infielders and a catcher.

GridironGrace
04-08-2006, 07:45 PM
Harang have a Little Pressure on him you think?

I think it could be the pressuer of #1 on him.. the EXPECTATIONS.

He's given up alot of runs but he's also struck out quite a few ppl.

I look for him to improve his ERA greatly once away from GAB for a bit :) Seems like only runs being scored on him right now have been from HR's he's given up.. what?? prolly 8 or 9 of those 11 he's given up have been on HR's

Chip R
04-09-2006, 12:52 AM
One thing to ponder with the bullpen in the shape that it is in is that if you think we do not have confidence in the bullpen, how do you think the starters feel like? And that could come back to bite them. For example, one of our starters has thrown a quality start. But he is at the point right now where he is getting tired. I am sure the pitching coach and manager ask him how he is feeling every inning and he is always going to say he feels fine. If he had a very good bullpen out there he might admit he is finished earlier than if he has the bullpen that is out there now. He is more liable to be dishonest about the condition he is in with a bad bullpen than he would with a good one. That could lead to him giving up runs or baserunners when he is too tired. It is probably not a big deal since pitchers have lied about their condition since they started playing the game. A manager and a pitching coach also are going to have to make a judgement to leave their pitcher in. It might be a Catch 22 situation for them. Leave the starter in and not only risk losing the game because he is tired but risk damaging his arm as well. But if you take him out too early you risk the Bomb Squad blowing the game for you. We have been fortunate so far that our starters have lasted at least 5 innings in most every game. I shudder to think what could happen if a starter is forced to leave the game early because of injury or ineffectiveness.

Patrick Bateman
04-09-2006, 01:11 AM
The way the bullpen has looked sort of makes me long to have Danny Graves back. He often got rocked, but he offset that with an occasional good outing. On the other hand, this pen has been like clockwork with giving up runs.

You are missing the point.

Graves often pitched bably but usually got the job done.

Our bullpen has pitched poorly but has pitched well enough to ensure 4 victories.

Our bullpen is Graves at his best. And his worse.

Superdude
04-09-2006, 01:16 AM
Has Coffey even pitched yet? With our bullpen, he should be pitching roughly half the relief innings in my opinion.

BigREDSfaninKY
04-09-2006, 01:47 AM
In the 7th, 8th and 9th innings this week the Reds staff has given up 18 runs out of the 42 given up so far. That is 43 % of the runs allowed in the final 3 innings. It shouldn't be too much longer before guys like White and Hammond will be out of a job.:thumbdown

MartyFan
04-09-2006, 01:53 AM
technically, by the rules of baseball stats, yes he did, but that wasn't all on him - Mike Burns pretty much blew it for him. Either Harang shouldn't have pitched the inning or should have been allowed to attempt to get out of his jam...neither happened.

Stats don't tell the whole story

THANK YOU!!! WOW!

Someone else thinking what I was thinking and writing during the game...I thought what a load of crap it was to pull him when he went out there for the 7th inning...let the guy work through it.

Thanks Matt!

TeamBoone
04-09-2006, 02:34 AM
Aaron was close to 100 pitches when he started the 7th. I didn't think Narron would bring him back, so was surprised when he batted in the 6th.

In addition, he's still not 100% over that flu bug that he pitched with on OD... and despite that, he still had 10 Ks and 0 BB. I think he was tired in the 7th. Aaron Harang will only get better.

Krivsky is a smart man. One way or another, I think he'll do something about the BP... sooner rather than later, either via trade(s) or sending down the chaff and bringing up a few of the better, younger arms.

Thank God for the offense.

I'm keeping my fingers crossed. It has to hapapen before the Reds start playing the really big boys.

wheels
04-09-2006, 03:45 AM
You are missing the point.

Graves often pitched bably but usually got the job done.

Our bullpen has pitched poorly but has pitched well enough to ensure 4 victories.

Our bullpen is Graves at his best. And his worse.

Eventaully, giving up that many runs will catch up to a team.

The Reds are on borrowed time.