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DoogMinAmo
04-09-2006, 04:14 PM
We need a K here.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:14 PM
Gave those 2 runs back in a hurry.

Redeye fly
04-09-2006, 04:14 PM
There's that 3 run deficit again. Thanks bullpen.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:14 PM
Here we go BP, here we go :bang: :bang:

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:15 PM
Denorfia catches that Duffy flyball. Move Griff to a corner OF spot and put Kearns in CF.

BTW, it looks like Belisle needs to join White and Hammond.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:15 PM
Apparently so. He just gave up an RBI double to the immortal Chris Duffy. As bad as our pitching is, particularly the bullpen, I didn't think it was possible for any pitcher to give up a hit to Duffy.

http://www.ultimatedallas.com/episodeguide/qPatrick_Duffy.jpg

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:16 PM
Craig Wilson K's. 5-2 Pirates, Mid. 7th.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:16 PM
He just gave up an RBI double to the immortal Chris Duffy.

The guy is a MLB player, he's has 3 hits fo t he season, he's going to get some hits sometime, it's hardly like the Pirates are going to go 0-162 and the Reds 161-1.

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:16 PM
can't we just get one guy to go with weathers to have a stable bullpen

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:17 PM
Denorfia catches that Duffy flyball. Move Griff to a corner OF spot and put Kearns in CF.

BTW, it looks like Belisle needs to join White and Hammond.


It really has to happen, Jr moving from CF. I think it will at some point this season.

As far as the BP goes, hell, I just don't know anymore. What's the BP's IP vs ER so far now?

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:17 PM
"Our bullpen is not a cause for concern. We feel confident in giving the ball to whoever has the hot hand"

http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:17 PM
:lol:

Kc61
04-09-2006, 04:18 PM
With Coffey, Mercker, and Weathers rested, was it necessary to go to Belisle here? I just don't get the fascination with this guy. He wasn't any good at AAA, why is he with the Reds, and why he is pitching in the late innings of a close game?

If anything Belisle should be a long man when the starter gets knock out early.

NatiRedGals
04-09-2006, 04:18 PM
"Our bullpen is not a cause for concern. We feel confident in giving the ball to whoever has the hot hand"

http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif

:notworthy

M2
04-09-2006, 04:18 PM
The guy is a MLB player ...

And he's got the Strat card to prove it.

WVRedsFan
04-09-2006, 04:19 PM
Don't lie to yourself. The guy can't field CF anymore. Deal and accept that.

I'd rather you deal with the absence of 100 RBI's with this pitching staff.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:19 PM
"Our bullpen is not a cause for concern. We feel confident in giving the ball to whoever has the hot hand"

http://dunamai.com/Humor/BagdadBob/images/bagdad_bob_large.gif
:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:19 PM
Hatteberg grounds to 2B. 1 out.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:19 PM
I'd rather you deal with the absence of 100 RBI's with this pitching staff.
Shift him to LF or 1b.

His bat is fine.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 04:20 PM
The guy is a MLB player, he's has 3 hits fo t he season, he's going to get some hits sometime, it's hardly like the Pirates are going to go 0-162 and the Reds 161-1.


NO you mean that we aren't going to get everybody out???...........Duffy isn't the fat guy plumbing everybody that they called out of Section 10 and is a bona fide MLB player??? :bang:

Seriously guys the pitching isn't the reason we are losing today. Our O has been inept, and our D has sucked........that's why we're losing.

Aronchis
04-09-2006, 04:21 PM
With Coffey, Mercker, and Weathers rested, was it necessary to go to Belisle here? I just don't get the fascination with this guy. He wasn't any good at AAA, why is he with the Reds, and why he is pitching in the late innings of a close game?

If anything Belisle should be a long man when the starter gets knock out early.

And you think those people are any better? Let him work out the kinks, get a better CF would also help. Oh, he can strike people out.

I have a amazing fact for you guys: Some of these guys aren't in mid-season form........:eek: amazing isn't it.

M2
04-09-2006, 04:21 PM
I'd rather you deal with the absence of 100 RBI's with this pitching staff.

CF or no Jr. are not the only two options.

He could play an OF corner or 1B and the team would be a lot better off if he did.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:21 PM
Kearns K's. 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:21 PM
NO you mean that we aren't going to get everybody out???...........Duffy isn't the fat guy plumbing everybody that they called out of Section 10 and is a bona fide MLB player??? :bang:

Seriously guys the pitching isn't the reason we are losing today. Our O has been inept, and our D has sucked........that's why we're losing.

Things happen. They're not going to win them all.

That bullpen doesn't help.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:21 PM
NO you mean that we aren't going to get everybody out???...........Duffy isn't the fat guy plumbing everybody that they called out of Section 10 and is a bona fide MLB player??? :bang:

Seriously guys the pitching isn't the reason we are losing today. Our O has been inept, and our D has sucked........that's why we're losing.
You're not going to score 8 runs a game sometimes the pitching needs to step up. Williams did fine, but Belisle came in and quickly sucked.

WVRedsFan
04-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Shift him to LF or 1b.

His bat is fine.

Thank you.

But it ain't goona happen for awhile. And if and when it does, I doubt the solution will be better than what we have now.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Valentin singles.

Dunner44
04-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Ears.... sigh. Stop falling behind 0-2!

kbrake
04-09-2006, 04:22 PM
Is this the worst bullpen ever?

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
why do we pinch hit him

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
NO you mean that we aren't going to get everybody out???...........Duffy isn't the fat guy plumbing everybody that they called out of Section 10 and is a bona fide MLB player???
Yep, not only that, the Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy and Early Retirement are all myths too.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
If anyone was wondering why everyone was picking the Reds to lose 90 games then look no further than this game. The bullpen stunk again, the defense was horrible, and the offense made bad pitchers look great. The offense will still be good this year, but they should have crushed them today.

Part of it isn't their fault though. 1) Freel should have started, 2) Berry killed a rally with his stupid call to send Womack with Griffey coming up.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Andy Abad? Are you kidding? What about RA or Freel?

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Who PH's?

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Abad PH.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Is this the worst bullpen ever?

If it stays as is, it will be.


And come on Andy!

Jr's Boy
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Here comes Abad!

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:23 PM
Abad flies out to CF. Nice play by Duffy. 5-2 Pirates after 7.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
Nice catch for a plumber.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
And that folks, is range/speed in CF

Dunner44
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
Time for Abad to live up to his name... look at me i'm jaded already.

DeadRedinCT
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
This team lacks passion today.

(ducks)

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
Hey look a centerfielder who can run.

That would be a double for the Pirates.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:24 PM
Abad should be the last guy out.

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Abad should be the last guy out.

He was the last guy out.

Well...for the Inning. ;)

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:25 PM
Mercker in to pitch.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:25 PM
:lol:

I mean the last PH

Aronchis
04-09-2006, 04:26 PM
So Duffy is a athletic CF who if he played for the Reds would have allowed Belisle to have a perfect 3 innings pitched. It really doesn't matter that much or make much a difference.......:(

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:26 PM
Hey look a centerfielder who can run.

That would be a double for the Pirates.


Maybe they should have just cut Griffey and thrown Wily Mo out there.

:rolleyes:

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:27 PM
Nice catch for a plumber.

Must've grabbed one of these between innings to give him better range:

http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/imgcache/200__~gauntlet_eg_eg2_20050915_mushroom.gif

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:27 PM
Maybe they should have just cut Griffey and thrown Wily Mo out there.

:rolleyes:
Yes that is what I said. Or move Griffey to left field and put Freel or Deno out there.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:27 PM
Must've grabbed one of these between innings to give him better range:

http://gauntlet.ucalgary.ca/imgcache/200__~gauntlet_eg_eg2_20050915_mushroom.gif

They must not be on the banned substance list.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Pirates announcers are acting like this game is over.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
You're not going to score 8 runs a game sometimes the pitching needs to step up. Williams did fine, but Belisle came in and quickly sucked.


Yeah and Jr. didn't help him with not making that catch that a good CF makes. Like I said our O and D have been much more inept than our pitching today. Obviously our bullpen sucks, but we would be losing with the NL all star pitching staff right now, because our fielding has been atrocious, and we couldn't hit a scrub. It's one game, and your right we aren't going to score 8 runs everygame, but we also aren't going to get everyone out and occasionally we are going to give up hits (although a good CF gets there) to the Duffy's of the world. That was my point. The pitching hasn't been the problem today.

M2
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
So, basically if you flip-flop CF defense, the Reds would be tied 3-3.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Burnitz K's. 1 out.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
They must not be on the banned substance list.
Dude..Toad was 100% natural.

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
burnitz is having a horrible series he's striking out like notting

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Yes that is what I said. Or move Griffey to left field and put Freel or Deno out there.

I could see moving him to a corner....

kbrake
04-09-2006, 04:28 PM
Yes that is what I said. Or move Griffey to left field and put Freel or Deno out there.

So where are you putting Dunn?

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:29 PM
Maybe they should have just cut Griffey and thrown Wily Mo out there.

:rolleyes:


Hey I'm not one to pile on my idol, but come on Matt, his range in CF is sorely lacking nowadays. His bat is an asset, but having Jr in CF is a liability, esp with Dunn in LF. Either move Jr to a corner OF spot or 1B and it HELPS the team.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:29 PM
McLouth PH for Torres.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:29 PM
So where are you putting Dunn?
1st where he belongs.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:29 PM
So where are you putting Dunn?
Where he belongs.

1st base.

You improve your team defense ten fold with Griffey in left, Freel in center, and Dunn at 1st.

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:29 PM
Dude..Toad was 100% natural.

Clearly Luigi was the one who was on performance enhancing drugs -- nobody should be able to jump that high without some sort of BALCO-type substance.

kbrake
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
Thats been tried and obviously was not working for whatever reason.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
McLouth K's. 2 outs.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
Hey I'm not one to pile on my idol, but come on Matt, his range in CF is sorely lacking nowadays. His bat is an asset, but having Jr in CF is a liability, esp with Dunn in LF. Either move Jr to a corner OF spot or 1B and it HELPS the team.

He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:30 PM
mercker quickly with 2 outs

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:31 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.
He isn't an bad defender by any means. When he gets to the ball 99% of the time he is going to catch it. Problem is, he has no range. He would be a VERY good defensive left fielder.

Cedric
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

He's pretty darn bad. We all love Griffey, he just isn't a good centerfielder right now.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
Thats been tried and obviously was not working for whatever reason.
I doubt it was seriously tried.

M2
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

Yes he is. That's the problem. He is the worst regular CF in baseball.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
Castillo K's. 5-2 Pirates, Mid. 7th.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.But the part that makes him the target isn't being Ken Griffey, Jr, it's playing the key OF position on team with a huge FB staff and a giant in LF.

Just like the lack of range is what got Larkin on the map for lacking defense towards the end.

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:32 PM
kent strikes out the side let's get out the bats

redsmetz
04-09-2006, 04:33 PM
Brought Mercker in too late - could have used three K's a bit earlier - nice job though, Kent

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:33 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.


No, Matt. That is the exact reason why he should move. Tell me, do you not think that it improves the defense having DeNo in CF, Jr in LF, and Dunn at 1B?


And nice job Merker. K's the side. Any chance the other BP'ers can drink what he's drinking?

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:33 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

He's an easy target because the solution is so maddeningly obvious. He lacks the range to be an effective major league centerfielder, so move him to RF or LF.

Nobody is knocking Jr., it's just what has to happen at this point in his career.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
I'd be fine with moving him, I said that, but it's not going to happen.

Do we really know if Dunn is a better 1st baseman than an outfielder? He's only been a "fill in"

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
Nobody is knocking Jr., it's just what has to happen at this point in his career.
Exactly, it isn't his fault he has no range. He still gets good jumps on balls, and he still catches almost everything he good to. But his serious lack of speed doesn't belong in CF.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
Gonzalez in to pitch.

Freel PH for Womack.

Kc61
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
And you think those people are any better? Let him work out the kinks, get a better CF would also help. Oh, he can strike people out.

I have a amazing fact for you guys: Some of these guys aren't in mid-season form........:eek: amazing isn't it.

Yes, I think Coffey, Mercker and Weathers are better than Belisle, in Coffey's case based on potential. I'm sorry to say this because I think Belisle tries hard and seems to have a good attitude. But I followed his minor league career and think he is a guy who throws fairly hard but doesn't fool anyone.

Hope I am wrong, and he is still young and can improve, but I don't think Belisle should be pitching in the late innings of a close game.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:34 PM
I'd be fine with moving him, I said that, but it's not going to happen.

Do we really know if Dunn is a better 1st baseman than an outfielder? He's only been a "fill in"
Unless he is dropping easy throws, he couldn't be worse.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
Freel in....the way it should be. :D

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
Do we really know if Dunn is a better 1st baseman than an outfielder? He's only been a "fill in"
I'd wager money he's just as good defensively as Hatteberg or Aurilia.

kbrake
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
We all know Dunn at first and Griffey out of center is the best defensive option for this team, thats not what I'm arguing. I just dont think there is any way we will see Dunn at first. I think it is even less likely that Griffey would ever play first.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
I'd be fine with moving him, I said that, but it's not going to happen.

Do we really know if Dunn is a better 1st baseman than an outfielder? He's only been a "fill in"

To be honest, he doesn't have to be a better 1B than LF. He just needs to be adequate, which I feel he would be. The improvement comes from getting Jr out of CF.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
Freel PH, here comes runs.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:35 PM
Freel over Womack..smart baseball.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
Freel walks. Good thing he didn't start today. ;)

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
freel walks

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
Freel gets on base.

Shocking.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
I'd wager money he's just as good defensively as Hatteberg or Aurilia.


Well with the influx of infielders and catchers, some of this could become reality...

Somebody needs to get traded...

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
And Freel draws another BB. To be honest, I'd like to see Freel traded so he gets the PT that he deserves. Narron should be ashamed to be his manager.

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:36 PM
Freel now OBP'ing close to 2 billion.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:37 PM
That Freel guy..he's pretty good

UPRedsFan
04-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Freel walks! Womack would have found a way to hit one of those pitches and flied out.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Freel now OBP'ing close to 2 billion.


:laugh: :laugh:


:cry:

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:37 PM
Lopez K's. 1 out.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:37 PM
That Freel guy..he's pretty good

I believe the word is "scrappy"

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:38 PM
Time for some runs JR

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:38 PM
I ask again, Lopez is not the greatest R/H hitter, why not just try hitting L/H once against a lefty?


Oh well, he's be torching the ball all year, just an idea nad frustration today....

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
I believe the word is "scrappy"
Yep, and when their legs go you can usually drop the s on that.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Lopez swung at ball 2 and 3. The Reds were patient in games 1-5, decided to swing at everything today.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Start running Freel!

M2
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
We all know Dunn at first and Griffey out of center is the best defensive option for this team, thats not what I'm arguing. I just dont think there is any way we will see Dunn at first. I think it is even less likely that Griffey would ever play first.

The only thing that makes it unlikely is if the team brass lacks the fortitude to take control of this team and do what's necessary to make it better. If Krivsky and Narron sit Jr. and Dunn down and tell them this defensive alignment cannot stand, they will switch. They may not be wild about the idea at first, but they will do it.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Send Freel

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:39 PM
Griffey Doubles. 5-3 Pirates.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Junior with another double!

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
WTG Jr!!!



And Freel scores from 1st!

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
I ask again, Lopez is not the greatest R/H hitter,

Probably this line in 2004

.292/.333/.523/.856 - 65 ab's

redsmetz
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Wheeling Freeling time, no? Nice scoring on that double

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Nice :clap:

Kc61
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
The only thing that makes it unlikely is if the team brass lacks the fortitude to take control of this team and do what's necessary to make it better. If Krivsky and Narron sit Jr. and Dunn down and tell them this defensive alignment cannot stand, they will switch. They may not be wild about the idea at first, but they will do it.

Simpler solution for awhile: switch Griff to right and Kearns in center.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Come on Dunn!!!!

Aronchis
04-09-2006, 04:40 PM
Yes, I think Coffey, Mercker and Weathers are better than Belisle, in Coffey's case based on potential. I'm sorry to say this because I think Belisle tries hard and seems to have a good attitude. But I followed his minor league career and think he is a guy who throws fairly hard but doesn't fool anyone.

Hope I am wrong, and he is still young and can improve, but I don't think Belisle should be pitching in the late innings of a close game.

I don't disagree Coffey has better potential than Belisle. Coffey has setup man's potential, Belisle is your standard MR. But Coffey has pitched like crap when I watched him, poor location, flat spitter/slider(whatever it is lol). He has been hit hard. If Belisle is used in a trade, fine by me, but lets don't praise the horse to he puts his foot forward.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 04:41 PM
This would be good time for Dunn to launch one...

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:41 PM
Come on Dunn -- do it for your teammates, do it for your fans...and do it for the Wackbags, my fantasy team!

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:41 PM
griffey with an rbi double

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:41 PM
Tie the game Adam :clap: :clap:

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:41 PM
Nice stroke by Griff. Looks to be coming out of that slump.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:42 PM
Capps up in the Pirates pen.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:42 PM
They don't want any part of Dunn I don't think.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:42 PM
He wants nothing to do with Dunn. IBB if he's smart now....

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:43 PM
3-1...big fat nasty green light Adam.....


at the knees for strike 2...come on Adam!

M2
04-09-2006, 04:43 PM
Simpler solution for awhile: switch Griff to right and Kearns in center.

Possibly, though I hate to move a guy who is well-positioned out of position. I still prefer the team tabbing the guy who should be the CF, Denorfia, and fixing the problem rather than jury-rigging it.

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 04:43 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

In 2005, Griffey was the worst fielding CF in baseball.

2005 Zone Rating:

MLB Rank. Player (ZR)

1. Jeremy Reed (.943)
2. Aaron Rowand (.939)
...

10. Jim Edmonds (.888)
11. Carlos Beltran (.887)
...

19. Mark Kotsay (.850)
20. Ken Griffey Jr. (.805)

The difference between #10 (Edmonds) and the best CF in the game last season (Reed) was 5.5% of Outs on balls he could have been reasonably expected to turn into Outs. The difference between Griffey and the 2nd worst CF in the game was 4.5%. Put Griffey on a team to replace Jeremy Reed and you lose about 14% of reasonable Out chances.

Even if all of Reeds regular Chances were ZR Chances, we can expect Griffey to cause 54 more Hits to drop- most of them of the extra-base variety. And that's a minimum expectation. The actual difference is most likely worse.

Versus Kotsay (the 2nd worst CF last year)? At least 14 additional Hits.

That's a staggering testament to exactly how badly Griffey's range has deteriorated.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:43 PM
That looked low

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Dunn K's swinging. 2 outs.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Jesus Adam.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Grrrr.


Dunn biting HARD on that low slider today....

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
swung on and missed at ball 4

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Come On Ee!

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:44 PM
Our lefites not having a hot day.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
3-0 pitch to Dunn was at his eyes...called a strike. I can't wait until they start using questec.

Dunn then takes a 3-1 pitch over the plate and then swings at one in the dirt. Great atbat Dunn. Geez.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
If Narron doesn't give Freel the 2nd base job on a regular basis it's a crying shame. The kid has busted his butt on this team for 3 years now, and is stll roaming around out there like a nomad, and doesn't get a chance to play everyday. He should be our everyday lead off hitter period. If we want to put him at SS one game, 2nd a few, and even OF one game a week, he should be in the lineup batting leadoff EVERYDAY.

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
these umps suck

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
That was letter high!

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
Our lefites not having a hot day.


Jr hasn't been too shabby with 2 doubles...


And does this ump have a date after the game or what?!?:bang:

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:45 PM
wtf is the ump looking at

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:46 PM
EdE K's. 5-3 Pirates after 8.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:46 PM
The 3-0 pitch the Ede was letter high.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:46 PM
EE takes a 3-0 pitch over his head...strike called. Then same as Dunn, takesa meatball and then goes golfing.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:47 PM
Someone get that man a definition of the strike zone

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:47 PM
EE takes a 3-0 pitch over his head...strike called. Then same as Dunn, takesa meatball and then goes golfing.

Good job by the Pirates pitcher to take advantage of that too.


Shame the HP ump is in a rush to leave today....

Falls City Beer
04-09-2006, 04:48 PM
Gonzalez is the only member of the Pirates BP with a measure of real talent. I'm not going to get flustered by being retired by him.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:48 PM
Coffey in to pitch.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 04:49 PM
Coffey in to pitch.

Guess we'll get to see if all of us know it alls are right and Coffey is the real deal.:D

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 04:49 PM
I hate umpires. Screw umps, go with questec. Dunn and EE should have both walked if not for the ump.

Too many times Dunn gets ahead in the count 3-0 and ends up striking out. Those are situations in which he should thrive. He needs to work on that.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:49 PM
Gonzalez is the only member of the Pirates BP with a measure of real talent. I'm not going to get flustered by being retired by him.
I shaved my head in mourning and am making a hairshirt for the possible loss.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:49 PM
Cota K's. 1 out.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:50 PM
I hate umpires. Screw umps, go with questec. Dunn and EE should have both walked if not for the ump.

Too many times Dunn gets ahead in the count 3-0 and ends up striking out. Those are situations in which he should thrive. He needs to work on that.


He is the one guy on the team that should be looking to drive the ball on 3-0.


Nice K Coffey:beerme:

Casey_21
04-09-2006, 04:50 PM
Argghhhh!!! Puppy poo made me miss the Reds score!! Maybe I should leave again and check up in a half..

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:50 PM
coffery's throwing well

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:50 PM
Sanchez grounds to 3B. 2 outs.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:51 PM
Kearns, Valentin, and probably RA due up.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:51 PM
Who PH's next inning in the pitcher's spot?

Nice play EdE


edited to add: Probably RA

M2
04-09-2006, 04:51 PM
If I were a pitcher and Humberto Cota got a hit off me, I'd have to seriously consider retirement.

cincy09
04-09-2006, 04:51 PM
hatte due up 1st

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Duffy bunts and the runner is thrown out at 1B. 5-3 Pirates, Mid. 9th.

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Oh wow, Duffy looked safe, but I'll take it.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Let's get some runs!!

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
Rally hats on

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 04:52 PM
:rallyhat:

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
If I were a pitcher and Humberto Cota got a hit off me, I'd have to seriously consider retirement.

Similarly, if I was a baserunner and Humberto Cota threw me out on a steal attempt, I'd have to seriously consider retirement.

...come to think of it, if I was involved in a baseball game where Humberto Cota made any sort of a play against my team, I'd probably have to go have a long cry in the showers afterward.

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
Let's get some runs!!

I'd rather the Reds get some Runs. Dunno how it would help if we got the runs.

Mmmmnn...tacos...

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
The Hat needs to find a way to get on.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
If I were a pitcher and Humberto Cota got a hit off me, I'd have to seriously consider retirement.
I had Humberto Cota once.... the penicillin killed it

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:53 PM
I'd rather the Reds get some Runs. Dunno how it would help if we got the runs.

Mmmmnn...tacos...
Make a run for the border

Kc61
04-09-2006, 04:54 PM
I don't disagree Coffey has better potential than Belisle. Coffey has setup man's potential, Belisle is your standard MR. But Coffey has pitched like crap when I watched him, poor location, flat spitter/slider(whatever it is lol). He has been hit hard. If Belisle is used in a trade, fine by me, but lets don't praise the horse to he puts his foot forward.

Coffey looked ok in the ninth. Last year Coffey seemed to improve as the season went on. I didn't feel that way about Belisle. I think Narron needs to start distinguishing between guys to pitch to kill a few innings and guys to put in when game is close.

Falls City Beer
04-09-2006, 04:54 PM
...come to think of it, if I was involved in a baseball game where Humberto Cota made any sort of a play against my team, I'd probably have to go have a long cry in the showers afterward.


This sounds like the plot to a Lifetime Movie Exclusive.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:54 PM
Hernandez in to pitch.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Hernandez is old enough to be in our pen

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Hernandez is old enough to be in our pen
Doesn't throw slow enough

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Hatteberg reaches on an error by Jack Wilson (rare).

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:55 PM
Error!!!

Ears Ears Ears

cincy09
04-09-2006, 04:56 PM
rally time !!!!!!

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 04:56 PM
I know Marty said "Funky" -- but I still laughed.

Redeye fly
04-09-2006, 04:56 PM
I'd rather the Reds get some Runs. Dunno how it would help if we got the runs.

Mmmmnn...tacos...

It's kind of like a new version of the rally cap, for the fans. Did you not get the memo?

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 04:56 PM
hatteberg on with the wilson error

NatiRedGals
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Hopefully the umps notice we can win and end the game :)

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Pirates announcers trying to figure out what just happened.

Chalked it up to a "crusty" infield.

*Yawn*

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Kearns lines out to 3B off Sanchez' glove, runner thrown out at 2B. 1 out.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Hatteberg is the slowest human being on earth

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:57 PM
Well that sucked

NatiRedGals
04-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Javy home run plz!

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Hatteberg is the slowest human being on earth

Ryan Freel would have been thrown out on that. You can't jump off first on a liner you figure is going to be held.

Redeye fly
04-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Now would be a good time for Javy's first home run.

reds44
04-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Ryan Freel would have been thrown out on that. You can't jump off first on a liner you figure is going to be held.
yeah i know..............

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:58 PM
Wild pitch. Runner to 2B.

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Valentin grounds to the pitcher. 2 outs. Kearns at 3B.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Help us Rich Aurilia..you're our only hope
http://www.cnn.com/EVENTS/1997/star.wars.anniversary/where.are.they/princess.leia.lg.jpg

RedFlare
04-09-2006, 04:59 PM
damn
down to last out.
Aurilia....

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 04:59 PM
Aurilia PH for Coffey.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 05:00 PM
Ryan Freel would have been thrown out on that. You can't jump off first on a liner you figure is going to be held.

Jay Garrick would have been safe.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 05:00 PM
That ball almost bounced and he still swung at it. What a smart day by Reds hitters. They didn't swing at anything bad during the first five games, so they face a horrible pitcher and decide to chase after everything. I don't get it. This team frustrates the heck out of me sometimes.

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 05:00 PM
Jay Garrick would have been safe.

Ditto Wally West.

Well...maybe. Now that the speed force is gone, there's really no way know know.

Redeye fly
04-09-2006, 05:01 PM
Jay Garrick would have been safe.
Jay Garrick. Wow, you are old!:p:

DoogMinAmo
04-09-2006, 05:01 PM
If Rich gets on base, the Reds win.

columbusbrian
04-09-2006, 05:02 PM
This game has simply not been as bad are people are making it out to be. Its a five three game, and the reds have been close. THe games I saw last year that made the 05 club a 90 loss team that they basically were was the Chicago and St. Louis series in late april early May. This game is nothing like those games. Its the last game of a tough four game series with the delayed game on Friday. The Reds already won the series and did not play terribly today.

RedFlare
04-09-2006, 05:02 PM
3-2
2 outs
bottom 9

CincyRedsFan30
04-09-2006, 05:03 PM
Aurilia K's. Pirates win 5-3.

RedFlare
04-09-2006, 05:03 PM
swing and a miss
game over
5-3 reds lose

SirFelixCat
04-09-2006, 05:03 PM
well, we took 3 of 4 from the Bucco's

NatiRedGals
04-09-2006, 05:04 PM
swung at ball 4 way to go rich!:)

Caveat Emperor
04-09-2006, 05:04 PM
Its the last game of a tough four game series with the delayed game on Friday.

No series against the Pittsburgh Pirates should ever be described as "tough," especially when Zach Duke never takes the mound during the 4 game stretch.

Clepper
04-09-2006, 05:04 PM
My wife said i could get the Reds channel if the reds won 3 out of 4 against the Pirates so Im still happy with them

Casey_21
04-09-2006, 05:05 PM
Damn... Way too many missed oppertunities this game.

reds44
04-09-2006, 05:05 PM
4-2 homestand, could not have asked for alot more.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 05:06 PM
The mighty Aurilla strikes out. We just didn't see the ball well today, and didn't put up enough runs. This isn't a team that can win alot of 3-2 games, and has to score alot of runs to win.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 05:06 PM
Aurilia fails Princess Leia..Luke will not be happy about this.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 05:08 PM
Jay Garrick. Wow, you are old!:p:

I even saw Sabbath with Ozzie!!

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 05:08 PM
The mighty Aurilla strikes out. We just didn't see the ball well today, and didn't put up enough runs. This isn't a team that can win alot of 3-2 games, and has to score alot of runs to win.

That's not an offensive issue.

That's a pitching issue.

Matt700wlw
04-09-2006, 05:08 PM
Good start to the season...

Next up, Cubbies at Wrigley

captainmorgan07
04-09-2006, 05:09 PM
tough loss for williams he pitched well and good enough to win

indyred
04-09-2006, 05:13 PM
Coffee should be given a chance to close on the road trip..........

redsmetz
04-09-2006, 05:13 PM
tough loss for williams he pitched well and good enough to win

The truth is, except for the Opener, we had good starting pitching for the homestand. The pen leaves much to be desired, but even there, it's early. Let's hope they shake things up and the pen gets better.

It's a long season - today we missed lots of opportunities and that will happen. It's never easy and it's always frustrating.

All in all, a successful start to the season. Let's head up to the Ivy-covered walls of Wrigleyville and make some more hay with the Cubbies.

And let's watch for that other shoe (or shoes) to drop.

hammer
04-09-2006, 05:18 PM
I agree the starting pitching has bene better than I expected, the bull pen is starting to concern me. good home stand, hopefully the reds can do well on this upcoming road trip.

WVRedsFan
04-09-2006, 05:41 PM
He's 36 with 18 major league seasons under his belt, he's not going to be what he was.

He's not the worst defender out there, but I guess he's an easy target.

:clap: :clap: :clap:

Defense and pitching was the culprit in this loss. A bad throw from third to first and a bonehead play by Hattie and Valentin (two runs there alone).

Griffey's not Denorfia. That's his problem. Many would like a whole team of Freels, Denorfias and (place name of scrappy banjo hitters here). With our pitching, we need run producers in the lineup. With Dunn apparently a disaster at first, there aren't many choices if you also want Dunn and Kearns in the lineup.

Gainesville Red
04-09-2006, 05:49 PM
I know Denorfia's got pretty good range in center, but what type of hitter is he? Leadoff material? What kind of speed does he have?

membengal
04-09-2006, 06:20 PM
That's not an offensive issue.

That's a pitching issue.


Thank you.

For goodnes sake people, one cannot expect to average six to seven runs a game.

This game was lost because Matt Belisle threw up on himself. 3-2 game, Reds have just shown some life, and he comes in and immediately builds the Pirate cushion back up.

The bullpen work continues to be laughable.

westofyou
04-09-2006, 06:27 PM
With our pitching, we need run producers in the lineup.

Defense behind said pitching wouldn't hurt either.

OnBaseMachine
04-09-2006, 06:28 PM
I know Denorfia's got pretty good range in center, but what type of hitter is he? Leadoff material? What kind of speed does he have?

-Good speed
-Good eye at the plate
-Solid power

If given the opportunity to play everyday, I could see Denorfia putting up .285/.370/.475 type of numbers. 30+ doubles and 15-20 homeruns. Not a superstar or even an All-Star, but just a good all around player.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 06:32 PM
/\
Exactly, and another thing he would be..cheap for the Reds.

Raisor
04-09-2006, 06:49 PM
Jay Garrick would have been safe.


http://spider-bob.com/heroes/dc/images/FlashI_02.jpg

CrackerJack
04-09-2006, 07:46 PM
I heard Ryan Freel beat a Cheetah in a race once. Then killed it and cooked it with his own two bare hands.

JohhnyBench1001
04-09-2006, 07:56 PM
That's not an offensive issue.

That's a pitching issue.


Never said it wasn't, but it's still the truth. We have a bad bullpen playing behind a bad defensive team..........ie we have to score alot of runs to win. I don't like it, but it is what it is for right now. If we don't see the ball well and put up runs in bunches most of the time we are going to lose. Again not what I like, but the facts.

KronoRed
04-09-2006, 08:06 PM
I heard Ryan Freel beat a Cheetah in a race once. Then killed it and cooked it with his own two bare hands.
I though that was Chuck Norris?

reds44
04-09-2006, 08:25 PM
http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/images/2006/04/09/U7Axriid.jpg

CINCINNATI -- Despite getting a solid debut effort from pitcher Dave Williams, the Reds missed their chance at a four-game sweep in a 5-3 loss to the Pirates Sunday before 22,090 fans at Great American Ball Park.
Pittsburgh won its first game of the season after dropping its first six. Cincinnati's four-game winning streak was snapped.

Williams (0-1) gave up three runs, two earned, on five hits over six innings. He walked two and struck out three.

It was a scoreless game until the top of the fifth. Third baseman Edwin Encarnacion committed a throwing error on leadoff batter Victor Santos' routine grounder. Two batters later, Jack Wilson's two-run homer to left field made it 2-0. The Pirates added another run in the sixth when Jeromy Burnitz hit a leadoff double and later scored on Jose Castillo's sacrifice fly.

Santos (1-1) allowed two runs on four hits with two walks and five strikeouts over 5 1/3 innings.

Ken Griffey Jr. was 2-for-4 with a pair of RBI doubles that helped keep the Reds close. After pinch-hitter Brandon Phillips hit a leadoff double to the left-center field gap in the sixth in his first game as a Red, he scored on Tony Womack's RBI double to right field. Griffey's double to right-center field scored Felipe Lopez.

Pittsburgh stretched its lead in the seventh, scoring twice off reliever Matt Belisle. Chris Duffy hit an RBI double and later scored on Jason Bay's sacrifice fly.

Facing reliever Mike Gonzalez in the bottom of the eighth, Griffey's double to left-center scored pinch-hitter Ryan Freel from first base. Roberto Hernandez closed the game for Pittsburgh with a scoreless ninth inning for his first save.


Mark Sheldon is a reporter for MLB.com. This story was not subject to the approval of Major League Baseball or its clubs.

SteelSD
04-09-2006, 09:11 PM
Never said it wasn't, but it's still the truth. We have a bad bullpen playing behind a bad defensive team..........ie we have to score alot of runs to win. I don't like it, but it is what it is for right now. If we don't see the ball well and put up runs in bunches most of the time we are going to lose...

...because the pitching (and defense) sucks.

When a team needs to have it's offense put up more than 5 Runs per game to have a reasonable shot at winning, it's futile to lay an iota of blame on the offense when they don't put up more than 5 Runs.

Today's loss wasn't- in any way, shape, or form- attributable to the Reds offense.

Big Klu
04-10-2006, 12:31 AM
I heard Ryan Freel beat a Cheetah in a race once. Then killed it and cooked it with his own two bare hands.

No, that was Billy Bates in 1990.

Big Klu
04-10-2006, 12:41 AM
I have an idea for a change in the lineup that just might make everyone happy. It might not happen soon, as it will call for either Griffey or Dunn to move to 1B, but here it goes:

1. Dunn or Griffey moves to 1B. If Dunn moves to 1B, then Griffey moves to LF. This makes RedsZoners happy, as Griffey is out of CF (and possibly Dunn is out of LF).

2. Freel starts full-time in CF. This makes Freel and RedsZone happy, because he is now in the lineup every day.

3. Womack and Aurilia now form the 2B platoon. This makes Womack, Aurilia, and Narron happy, as neither Wo nor Richie lose any PT.

4. Hatteberg goes to the bench to be the Reds' top left-handed pinch-hitter. This makes RedsZone happy, as it strengthens the bench with a legit lefty PH.


Lineup:

CF Freel
SS Lopez
LF/1B Griffey
1B/LF Dunn
RF Kearns
3B Encarnacion
C LaRue/Valentin
2B Womack/Aurilia (when Richie starts, he bats 7th, with the C hitting 8th)
<pitcher>

Comments?

Nugget
04-10-2006, 12:49 AM
Its funny on how everyone is commenting about this game going back to the offense and bullpen sucks. But where we gave up the runs today it was through the guys who no-one is saying should be moved on or out.

The runs in the 5th came from a throwing error by EE. No-one is going to say get rid of him. And MB gave up the bullpen runs. Not White, Hammond or Burns. Even if you had made the changes that are being called for the three runs still would have scored.

Yes the REDS need to improve in certain areas but they still would have lost this game. If you find a team that can win 162/162 games then you will also be able to pick next week's lotto numbers and know the secret to eternal youth.

pedro
04-10-2006, 12:50 AM
Defense was the Reds biggest problem today. Griffey's drop didn't help either.

Nugget
04-10-2006, 12:56 AM
What drop?

JohhnyBench1001
04-10-2006, 12:56 AM
...because the pitching (and defense) sucks.

When a team needs to have it's offense put up more than 5 Runs per game to have a reasonable shot at winning, it's futile to lay an iota of blame on the offense when they don't put up more than 5 Runs.

Today's loss wasn't- in any way, shape, or form- attributable to the Reds offense.



First of all, our D and pitching aren't going to get that much better. Yes it sucks, but it is what it is. I say again I don't like it, but our offense has to put up big numbers most nights for us to have a shot at winning, becasue our pitching and D sucks..........if they don't we will lose most of the time. Is it the O's fault they have that kind of pressure.........no, but again it is what it is until we get the pitching and D messes cleaned up.


Secondly, our O was bad today, and did contribute to the loss. They chased alot of bad pitches and made a very mediocre pitcher at best look good. In the grand scheme of things though it doesn't matter, becasue our O is going to have games like this throughout the course of a 162 game schedule.....all teams do. Playoff teams win those games when it happens with good pitching and D..........we aren't a playoff team most likely this year, and hence I said that we are screwed if we don't score alot of runs.

Nugget
04-10-2006, 01:04 AM
I agree with that. Just looking at a recap and some elements of the game. The REDS had one out, runner on second and the heart of the lineup to come and couldn't score a run.

And looking at Junior's play on the sac-fly he wasn't really in a position to throw the ball for the out as neither of the fielder's were in position. Better to keep the ball in hand than to give up a run on a wild throw.

M2
04-10-2006, 11:15 AM
Secondly, our O was bad today, and did contribute to the loss. They chased alot of bad pitches and made a very mediocre pitcher at best look good. In the grand scheme of things though it doesn't matter, becasue our O is going to have games like this throughout the course of a 162 game schedule.....all teams do. Playoff teams win those games when it happens with good pitching and D..........we aren't a playoff team most likely this year, and hence I said that we are screwed if we don't score alot of runs.

I'd give the Pirates pitching some credit for the win. They disrupted a fairly scary offense. Even with that, the Reds got 10 baserunners and forced Pittsburgh to throw 153 pitches. That more baserunners and more pitches than the Pirates managed in three of the four games during the series (including yesterday).

The Pirates hurlers managed to keep the ball in the park and to avoid the big inning. It wasn't pretty and I bet Pittsburgh fans watched that game with a constant sense of dread, but it worked out for them because, as you noted, on those days when the Reds only score three or four runs, they're likely to lose more often than not. I wouldn't assign blame or fault to the offense for that. You're right that the team is in trouble on those days when the offense is mortal, but it's one thing to recognize the Reds generally will have to win on the strength of their bats and another to issue demerits because they didn't overwhelm the other team.

If this is a bad day for the Reds offense, that's pretty awesome. Put that together with a pitching staff and you'd have a juggernaut. This was not a one-run, five-baserunner, 120-pitch spanking.

JohhnyBench1001
04-10-2006, 10:11 PM
No demerits bro, I said that ALL teams have games like this one, and as you noted when we have them their usually better than what other teams "bad" days are. I'm not saying the O is the problem with this team, so that nobody misinterprets what I am saying. All I am saying is the obvious..........our pitching stinks.........our D stinks..........therefore to win we have to put up big #s most nights to have a shot at winning..............we didn't Sunday so we lost. That's all I'm saying man........I don't know where you guys think that I am saying that the O is a problem on this team.

I am also suprised at the # of pitches that we made them pitch...........thought it would be much lower. If Griffey makes that catch in CF we probably win that one. Oh well 162 game season, and we aren't going to win them all..................I'd be happy with half of them if we don't do something with the pitching staff and make some defensive changes.