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redsmetz
04-11-2006, 11:23 AM
I was looking at baseball-reference.com and Edd Roush's listing and noted the following:


July 20, 1916: Traded by the New York Giants with Christy Mathewson and Bill McKechnie to the Cincinnati Reds for Buck Herzog and Red Killefer.

What caught my eye was the Reds received three future Hall of Famers (which, of course, didn't exist at that point in time) for two players. Now granted, Mathewson only pitched in one game for the Reds and McKechnie was elected as a Manager, that's still pretty impressive. Of course, Roush was the greatest centerfielder of his time and was one of the linchpins of the 1919 Reds.

westofyou
04-11-2006, 11:27 AM
I was looking at baseball-reference.com and Edd Roush's listing and noted the following:



What caught my eye was the Reds received three future Hall of Famers (which, of course, didn't exist at that point in time) for two players. Now granted, Mathewson only pitched in one game for the Reds and McKechnie was elected as a Manager, that's still pretty impressive. Of course, Roush was the greatest centerfielder of his time and was one of the linchpins of the 1919 Reds.
I love that trade, by far my favorite Reds trade of the first half a century.

In fact I dug into it last year.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36848

redsmetz
04-11-2006, 11:57 AM
I love that trade, by far my favorite Reds trade of the first half a century.

In fact I dug into it last year.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=36848

For the record, Mathewson book Pitching in a Pinch is available through the public library. Do you think Wayne K. has a library card yet????

Great write-up and very interesting. Hmmm. Defense and pitching, now there's a thought!

Cyclone792
04-11-2006, 12:42 PM
Edd Roush is very similar to Heinie Groh in being vastly underrated by a large percentage of baseball historians. I've got Roush ranked 11th all-time among center fielders, and that's higher than most any other list I've ever seen.

Two of Roush's greatest seasons, 1918 and 1919, were shortened due to WWI, and he had the misfortune of playing in a pitcher's park for much of his career. Not only that, but roughly half of his career, including some of his peak seasons, occurred in an extreme pitching era before offense began picking up in the National League in 1920 and 1921.

Defensively, every bit of statistical and anecdotal evidence I've seen suggests he was an all-world defensive center fielder. While he wasn't a baseball god like Cobb and Speaker were in the American League, Roush was the class of the National League during his time, a very legitimate Hall of Famer and among the best dozen or so center fielders the game has ever seen.

BTW, I have Mathewson's Pitching in a Pinch, and it's a phenomenal read and comes highly recommended.

redsmetz
04-11-2006, 01:17 PM
BTW, I have Mathewson's Pitching in a Pinch, and it's a phenomenal read and comes highly recommended.

So send it to Wayne. I'm willing to bet it doesn't say one word about "pitching to contact". :D

westofyou
04-11-2006, 01:35 PM
So send it to Wayne. I'm willing to bet it doesn't say one word about "pitching to contact". :D
Slim Salle pitched to contact

redsmetz
04-11-2006, 01:45 PM
Slim Salle pitched to contact

Looking at his 1919 stats, I'd say you're right - 221 hits, 20 strike outs, but won 21 games. Whew.