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Falls City Beer
04-11-2006, 09:52 PM
In 14 ABs this season, Freel has drawn 8 BBs.

Discuss.

Fullboat
04-11-2006, 09:57 PM
Bat Dunn second

alexad
04-11-2006, 09:57 PM
In 14 ABs this season, Freel has drawn 8 BBs.

Discuss.

I like it. It is proving he is way more valuable than what some think. Plus his stolen bases are huge at this point.

Maybe they will change the On base stat to the Ryan Freel stat.

George Foster
04-11-2006, 09:59 PM
In 14 ABs this season, Freel has drawn 8 BBs.

Discuss.

The reason Freel is not in the line-up EVERY SINGLE DAY is??? He is a on base machine. I don't get it. He has to play, period.

CincyRedsFan30
04-11-2006, 10:00 PM
I loved that 10-pitch AB today. Even though he saw his BA drop a good deal today, he still got on base at a .400 clip for the game and worked the Cubs' pitching. He is a catalyst in so many ways, I find it beyond ridiculous that he isn't starting every game at this point.

His steals are just icing on the cake at this point. Even when he isn't stealing, he's distracting opposing pitchers, which is always a good thing. I really think he helps our other hitters in that regard and I think they like swinging the bat with him on base in front of them. In fact, I believe Lopez made a comment saying as much.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2006, 10:06 PM
I would start him 5 out of 7 games. He will wear himself down if he plays every game.

CincyRedsFan30
04-11-2006, 10:09 PM
I don't believe you only start Freel some of the time over fear of the unknown. Let him play. If he starts to wear down, sit him. Otherwise, just let the guy play.

Nugget
04-11-2006, 10:22 PM
No I think you sit him in games where you can not ones where you have to. There are 162 games and if Freel plays in 100 that count its better than playing him in the first 100 and have him on the DL for the rest of the season.

KronoRed
04-11-2006, 11:14 PM
I'd rather he play in 150.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2006, 11:21 PM
I don't believe you only start Freel some of the time over fear of the unknown. Let him play. If he starts to wear down, sit him. Otherwise, just let the guy play.

I dont think this is unknown. Freel does wear down. It has happened it probably would again. Plus, it's not like he isn't valuable when he doesn't start. He came in off the bench on Sunday, walked and scored. It's not like other players that are only good when they start. He is very valuable off the bench too. Of course I would like to start him a lot, but I would rather have a healthy Freel at the end of the season.

TOBTTReds
04-11-2006, 11:22 PM
I'd rather he play in 150.

Of course we all would, I just don't think that will happen if he starts 80 of 82 games...

CincyRedsFan30
04-11-2006, 11:32 PM
Freel's style of play can cause him to get injured, but I don't think you give him days off because of that fear.

That seems very "Dan O'Brien-like" to me. A fear of what COULD happen and a lack of action as a result. This team hasn't been run aggressively enough in recent years and it's time to change, IMO.

wolfboy
04-11-2006, 11:33 PM
I dont think this is unknown. Freel does wear down. It has happened it probably would again. Plus, it's not like he isn't valuable when he doesn't start. He came in off the bench on Sunday, walked and scored. It's not like other players that are only good when they start. He is very valuable off the bench too. Of course I would like to start him a lot, but I would rather have a healthy Freel at the end of the season.

Where do you get this idea from? Freel had more at bats in September of '05 than in any other month. The same was true in 2004. If he was worn down, why so many at bats?

I understand he was valuable off of the bench on Sunday, but why does that mean he wouldn't have been much more valuable if he had started? If he walked and scored in one plate appearance, wouldn't he be more valuable if he could do that in 4 or 5?

I don't understand all of this "we have to save Freel from himself" rhetoric. It's not based in reality, and it has the potential to lose games for this team.

KronoRed
04-11-2006, 11:39 PM
But why? chances are at the end of the season we'll be 20 games back, our only chance to stay in it is to play our best players as much as possible.

Dunner44
04-11-2006, 11:51 PM
I think freel right now is projected to slug .727 without ever hitting a homer and to steal 161 bases. Thats why first week stats mean crap... however, I love freel and he needs more ABs!

StillFunkyB
04-11-2006, 11:59 PM
I would start him 5 out of 7 games. He will wear himself down if he plays every game.

I think Steve Stewart said this about 800 times during the rain delay. I was driving home from Chicago, so I listened the whole time.

Nugget
04-12-2006, 12:13 AM
Out of a season of 162 there are going to be times when you can play your B team, which is kind of what the REDS put out against Pittsburgh in game 4. And part of the Manager's job is managing the position players so that they can play them in the important games. I would prefer to have Freel available against teams like the Cards or Cubs than to have him worn out against the Pirates.

GOREDSGO32
04-12-2006, 12:30 AM
Freel wears down, like others have said and Marty said today. I would like to keep a fresh rotation in the lineup.

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 03:05 AM
I don't buy that he wears down, maybe he gets hurt but that's a maybe for anyone.

wolfboy
04-12-2006, 09:27 AM
Out of a season of 162 there are going to be times when you can play your B team, which is kind of what the REDS put out against Pittsburgh in game 4. And part of the Manager's job is managing the position players so that they can play them in the important games. I would prefer to have Freel available against teams like the Cards or Cubs than to have him worn out against the Pirates.

I always felt that a manager's job was to field the best players on the team. If "saving" players is a valid strategy, then why isn't Griffey getting more rest? Why not Kearns as well? Those two have certaintly shown that they can be injury prone.

I know one thing for certain: this so called strategy is more about managing egos than talent. If Freel is handed the job at 2nd, you have two unhappy vets on the bench in Womack and Aurilia. This whole notion of Freel being too good to start is just spin. Unfortunately, a lot of people have bought it hook, line, and sinker. As the season goes on, and the team fails to score enough runs because guys like Womack can't get on base, I hope the spell wears off. Until fans demand the best from this team, we're going to be a lot more like the Royals or Pirates than the Red Sox or Cardinals.

TRF
04-12-2006, 09:43 AM
Ryan Freel 2004: 143 Games, 505 AB's

That's how he should be used... as often as possible.

BRM
04-12-2006, 09:46 AM
I always felt that a manager's job was to field the best players on the team. If "saving" players is a valid strategy, then why isn't Griffey getting more rest? Why not Kearns as well? Those two have certaintly shown that they can be injury prone.


Exactly. If Freel should sit two or three times a week out of fear of injuring himself, then Junior's PT should be limited as well.

I just don't see it. Play Freel until he starts to "wear down" (if he does), then sit him for a few games and let him recharge.

Johnny Footstool
04-12-2006, 09:48 AM
14 ABs plus 8 Walks equals 22 Plate Appearances.

6 for 14 with 1 Caught Stealing means he's only produced 9 outs all season.

Impressive. Most impressive.

registerthis
04-12-2006, 11:22 AM
Thsi "Freel wears down" line is bunk. There's no evidence to support that. Freel has a track record of injuries, yes, but not of wearing down. So let's drop this argument when discussing Freel's playing time (or lack thereof.)

Puffy
04-12-2006, 11:29 AM
This wear down stuff is the biggest load of crap I have ever heard. It has no basis in reality yet because it gets repeated so much people buy it hook, line and sinker.

Freel plays hard and might injure himself because of it - fine, I can buy that. But wearing down, the cat has played baseball everyday growing up (he grew up in Florida), do you really think his body isn't used to it?

Come on.

Chip R
04-12-2006, 11:42 AM
Thsi "Freel wears down" line is bunk. There's no evidence to support that. Freel has a track record of injuries, yes, but not of wearing down. So let's drop this argument when discussing Freel's playing time (or lack thereof.)

Thank you. Unfortunately this seems to be the party line as far as the Reds are concerned since we hear it repeated so often by the media, the coaching staff and some fans. I ask those of you who only want to play Freel every so often because he may get hurt, would you have done that with Eric Davis? Treating these players like china dolls aren't going to prevent injuries. Pitchers, I understand you have to coddle but not everyday players. I understand they need a break every once in a while but if they are the best option at their position, play them on a regular basis. I understand Freel is very versatile and can be used late in the game at other positions. That doesn't mean you have to hide him on the bench like a secret weapon. Last I checked there was no rule against switching players from one position to another during a game. If there's anything we should have learned from the Bob Boone era it is that.

Puffy
04-12-2006, 12:08 PM
Thank you. Unfortunately this seems to be the party line as far as the Reds are concerned since we hear it repeated so often by the media, the coaching staff and some fans. I ask those of you who only want to play Freel every so often because he may get hurt, would you have done that with Eric Davis? Treating these players like china dolls aren't going to prevent injuries. Pitchers, I understand you have to coddle but not everyday players. I understand they need a break every once in a while but if they are the best option at their position, play them on a regular basis. I understand Freel is very versatile and can be used late in the game at other positions. That doesn't mean you have to hide him on the bench like a secret weapon. Last I checked there was no rule against switching players from one position to another during a game. If there's anything we should have learned from the Bob Boone era it is that.

How come you didn't thank me?

registerthis
04-12-2006, 12:09 PM
How come you didn't thank me?

He likes me better. :p:

Puffy
04-12-2006, 12:12 PM
He likes me better. :p:

In fairness to me, it is only Chip we are talking about here.

:evil:

RichRed
04-12-2006, 01:11 PM
Like I've said before, Freel needs to be in the lineup until parts start falling off his body. And depending on what those parts are, he should probably still start over Womack.

registerthis
04-12-2006, 01:24 PM
In fairness to me, it is only Chip we are talking about here.

:evil:

So, what, you've moved on to accepting gratitude from only the Steels, WOYs and M2s of the Redzone world? ;)

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 02:35 PM
Like I've said before, Freel needs to be in the lineup until parts start falling off his body. And depending on what those parts are, he should probably still start over Womack.
Amen.