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reds44
04-12-2006, 07:51 PM
I haven't read much of the game thread, but from what I did there was some EE bashing going on. I was at the game today, and the EE plays were not easy plays. Should he have had them? Yes, but it wasn't like he was blowing easy plays. It would be nice if we had an actual 1st baseman out there, and not a 5'9 DH.

If you are expecting EE to automatically step in and not have his bad games at the field or at the plate, you are sadly mistaken. If you want some bleh guy that is going to not make alot of mistakes, and basically just do his job and be decent, then you better get the Pirates on the phone and get Joe Randa back here.

Edwin is going to make plays and dazzle you with his arm, but then he is going to have games like today. He is going to hit homers and swing the bat well, then he will have games like Opening Day.

He is 23 years old, he is GOING to go through groing pains. It is going to happen. He drove in our only run today, and should have had 2 hits. Yesterday he hit a Grand Slam, it seems as if he is finding his stroke at the plate.

Nobody feels worse right now then EE. I am sure he isn't going around Chicago feeling good about himself. He will learn, and everything about his game will improve. I am sure Jerry will be patient with him, and so should everyone else.

EdE is not the reason we lost today. He was the only one who did anything on offense today, and the fact of the matter is when we score 1 run, we aren't EVER going to win.

/end rant

VI_RedsFan
04-12-2006, 07:55 PM
Good post, reds44. I agree.

kbrake
04-12-2006, 07:55 PM
I think its cause he was on his cell phone the other day :devil:

pedro
04-12-2006, 07:56 PM
:thumbup:

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 08:01 PM
Word.

Why does everyone expect youngsters to be Albert Pujols? he's a 1 in century type, accept it.

RedLegSuperStar
04-12-2006, 08:02 PM
thanks R44.. that was much needed. Good post!

The Baumer
04-12-2006, 08:10 PM
Edwin is lucky Maddux did his usual Jedi mind tricks on the Reds offense and that his errors didn't factor in beyond tiring Claussen out quicker. I'd say he got away as clean as you can while still making three errors in a ballgame.

GAC
04-12-2006, 08:13 PM
Red fans are not known for their patience.

Where's Larson when we need him? ;)

KittyDuran
04-12-2006, 08:16 PM
Red fans are not known for their patience.

Where's Larson when we need him? ;)Oh, the fans can be patient if the player is someone they like...;)

Falls City Beer
04-12-2006, 08:18 PM
Oh, the fans can be patient if the player is someone they like...;)

Or you can be like me and really like Encarnacion but still feel he needs a breather for one game. :)

Reds Nd2
04-12-2006, 08:28 PM
Or you can be like me and really like Encarnacion but still feel he needs a breather for one game. :)

:thumbup:

GAC
04-12-2006, 08:30 PM
Oh, the fans can be patient if the player is someone they like...;)

They loved Larson once. I remember the numerous threads screaming for him to be called up because he was tearing AAA up.

But by saying that, let there be no mistake (to quote Lloyd Benson)

EE is no Larson. ;)

Most Red fans are bi-polar, and need medication. :lol:

reds44
04-12-2006, 08:31 PM
We would have a serious offensive outage if EE sits Thursday.

Now watch he will sit and we will score 8 runs.

GAC
04-12-2006, 08:31 PM
Or you can be like me and really like Encarnacion but still feel he needs a breather for one game. :)

And I agree with you guy. I really have no problem with it.

My problem is looking at the alternatives we have to play 3B. :bang:

reds44
04-12-2006, 08:32 PM
And I agree with you guy. I really have no problem with it.

My problem is looking at the alternatives we have to play 3B. :bang:
RA
Hatteberg
Womack

in the lineup at the same time is a scary thought.

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 08:36 PM
Batting 12 and 3 ;)

Redmachine2003
04-12-2006, 08:37 PM
Since most of EE errors are throwing errors I wonder if his future is maybe at 1st. He has good reactions and quick feet, if his bat develops like everyone thinks it will he might make a darn good 1st baseman.

reds44
04-12-2006, 08:41 PM
Since most of EE errors are throwing errors I wonder if his future is maybe at 1st. He has good reactions and quick feet, if his bat develops like everyone thinks it will he might make a darn good 1st baseman.
This board has an obsession with moving people to different positions.

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 08:41 PM
He'll be a fine 3b, Larkin commited a goodle of errors when he first came up, glad we didn't move him.

Reds Nd2
04-12-2006, 08:42 PM
And I agree with you guy. I really have no problem with it.

My problem is looking at the alternatives we have to play 3B. :bang:

Oh no doubt the options are worse but your looking at one game, tomorrows game. EzE's developement will still be paying dividends for the Reds long after Aurillia is gone. You have to keep the bigger picture in mind.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2006, 08:43 PM
I agree. Edwin will be fine. He just needs to learn to dampen the enthusiasms.

SirFelixCat
04-12-2006, 08:44 PM
This board has an obsession with moving people to different positions.

People were saying the same thing about Lopez last year. And the year before. etc etc. EdE will stay the Reds 3B for quite awhile. He and Lopez are/were going thru growing pains. Most every player does....

reds44
04-12-2006, 08:44 PM
I agree. Edwin will be fine. He just needs to learn to dampen the enthusiasms.
I would rather him have to do that, then needing to care more.

Reds Nd2
04-12-2006, 08:45 PM
This board has an obsession with moving people to different positions.

:laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

I've been trying to convince Reds.com that Griffey needs to move to LF.

Falls City Beer
04-12-2006, 08:47 PM
I would rather him have to do that, then needing to care more.

Sure, of course. I don't for a minute think he's dogging it. But knowing when to lay off the gas is just as important as knowing when to step on it.

StillFunkyB
04-12-2006, 08:50 PM
goodle

That's a new one! :thumbup:

Reds Nd2
04-12-2006, 11:16 PM
You've got to hustle on every play. Just watching the Rox game and they just cost themselves a run in a close game.

With two outs, Miguel Batista intentionally walks Danny Ardoin to load the bases and get to the pitcher. Well, Jeff Francis hits a shot down the left field line. Garrett Atkins scores from third base easily. Ardoin trys to make third and is thown out, but Matt Holliday, jogging home from second, doesn't score ahead of the out.

Lot's of things went wrong for the Rockies on this play. Ardoin trying to make 3rd from 1st on a hard hit single to LF, Atkins holding his hands up and signaling Holliday not to slide, and Holliday taking a morning jog into home plate. Plenty of blame to go around for one play, in a single game. Still, I hate to see the lack of hustle Holliday displayed on that play. Even if he didn't have to slide to beat the throw home, he should have been running all out.

paintmered
04-12-2006, 11:20 PM
Most Red fans are bi-polar, and need medication. :lol:

Truer words have never been spoken. :laugh:

WVRedsFan
04-12-2006, 11:26 PM
I was captive most of the day in my car, heading to various places. I only had the Cubs' radio guys (ugh!) to follow the game. They were brutal with Edwin, but the worst was to come.

Now XM radio has WLW on Channel 173, so I changed the channel to WLW to hear the post game. What I got was a Furman tirade against EdE and Brandon Claussen. "How many errors did Aaron Boone make," and then saying that Claussen was just too inconsistent and that we needed Boone back, yada, yada, yada.

I gritted my teeth, remembered we were 5-3 and playing on the road. Also that Encarnacion was a rookie and Claussen was getting squeezed on pitches (why does that always happen to him? Even the Cubs guys were wondering), plus the bullpen had a better outing.

Give the kid (both of them) a break. They're our future stars.

MWM
04-12-2006, 11:26 PM
This board has an obsession with moving people to different positions.

That, and with thinking the player they see when they first come up is the finished product.

KronoRed
04-12-2006, 11:26 PM
That's a new one! :thumbup:
(c)

aodaniel
04-13-2006, 09:59 AM
I haven't read much of the game thread, but from what I did there was some EE bashing going on. I was at the game today, and the EE plays were not easy plays. Should he have had them? Yes, but it wasn't like he was blowing easy plays. It would be nice if we had an actual 1st baseman out there, and not a 5'9 DH.

If you are expecting EE to automatically step in and not have his bad games at the field or at the plate, you are sadly mistaken. If you want some bleh guy that is going to not make alot of mistakes, and basically just do his job and be decent, then you better get the Pirates on the phone and get Joe Randa back here.

Edwin is going to make plays and dazzle you with his arm, but then he is going to have games like today. He is going to hit homers and swing the bat well, then he will have games like Opening Day.

He is 23 years old, he is GOING to go through groing pains. It is going to happen. He drove in our only run today, and should have had 2 hits. Yesterday he hit a Grand Slam, it seems as if he is finding his stroke at the plate.

Nobody feels worse right now then EE. I am sure he isn't going around Chicago feeling good about himself. He will learn, and everything about his game will improve. I am sure Jerry will be patient with him, and so should everyone else.

EdE is not the reason we lost today. He was the only one who did anything on offense today, and the fact of the matter is when we score 1 run, we aren't EVER going to win.

/end rant

Agree. Remember when FeLo used to blow routine throws all the time? Ed E will get it all together and reduce the errors in time.

Chip R
04-13-2006, 10:17 AM
Benching him today sends the message that if he makes an error, he may be benched. Sure, it's only supposed to be for 1 game but stranger things have happened. If EE is benched and RA gets in there and gets 4 hits, we might not see EE for awhile except as a pinch hitter. What's he going to learn sitting on the bench? Young players make mistakes. It's called growing pains.

RichRed
04-13-2006, 12:22 PM
Most Red fans are bi-polar, and need medication. :lol:

The voices in my head tell me that this is not true.

Oh, and they also say that EE will be fine. ;)

edabbs44
04-13-2006, 12:35 PM
Thanks R44...I think that people forget he is young and that this team is looking more towards the future than the present. With that in mind, he better be up here for the season unless he's hovering around the Mendoza line.

pedro
04-13-2006, 12:42 PM
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

There's a time you got to go and show
You're growin' now you know about
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

When the world never seems
to be livin up to your dreams
And suddenly you're finding out
the Facts of Life are all about you, you.

It takes a lot to get 'em right
When you're learning the Facts of Life. (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life.

You'll avoid a lot of damages
an enjoy the fun of managing
the facts of life;
they shed a lot of light
If you hear them from your brother,
better clear them with your mother
better get them right,
call her late at night

You got the future in the palm of your hands
all you gotta do to get you through is understand
you think you rather do without,
you will never make without the truth
the facts of life is all about you

KittyDuran
04-13-2006, 12:48 PM
Thanks R44...I think that people forget he is young and that this team is looking more towards the future than the present. With that in mind, he better be up here for the season unless he's hovering around the Mendoza line.There's a fine balance here - the team is looking more towards the future but it wants to win in the present... how to achieve that will be the hard part.

westofyou
04-13-2006, 12:50 PM
the team is looking more towards the future but it wants to win in the present

The Teams Motto since 1996

vaticanplum
04-13-2006, 01:00 PM
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

There's a time you got to go and show
You're growin' now you know about
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

When the world never seems
to be livin up to your dreams
And suddenly you're finding out
the Facts of Life are all about you, you.

It takes a lot to get 'em right
When you're learning the Facts of Life. (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life.

You'll avoid a lot of damages
an enjoy the fun of managing
the facts of life;
they shed a lot of light
If you hear them from your brother,
better clear them with your mother
better get them right,
call her late at night

You got the future in the palm of your hands
all you gotta do to get you through is understand
you think you rather do without,
you will never make without the truth
the facts of life is all about you

This board is all-reaching.

Puffy
04-13-2006, 01:01 PM
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

There's a time you got to go and show
You're growin' now you know about
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

When the world never seems
to be livin up to your dreams
And suddenly you're finding out
the Facts of Life are all about you, you.

It takes a lot to get 'em right
When you're learning the Facts of Life. (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life (learning the Facts of Life)
Learning the Facts of Life.

You'll avoid a lot of damages
an enjoy the fun of managing
the facts of life;
they shed a lot of light
If you hear them from your brother,
better clear them with your mother
better get them right,
call her late at night

You got the future in the palm of your hands
all you gotta do to get you through is understand
you think you rather do without,
you will never make without the truth
the facts of life is all about you

http://img.villagephotos.com/p/2005-8/1070272/mindyearly.jpg

KittyDuran
04-13-2006, 01:10 PM
He'll be a fine 3b, Larkin commited a goodle of errors when he first came up, glad we didn't move him.Well, Larkin was a 1st round draft choice... ;)

danforsman
04-13-2006, 01:12 PM
Good post reds44. With Dunn in LF, Kearns in RF, Encarnacion at 3B, Lopez at SS and even Phillips potentially at 2B, it's an exciting time to be a Reds fan, at least for me.

Reds Nd2
04-13-2006, 01:12 PM
You take the good, you take the bad,
you take them both and there you have
The Facts of Life, the Facts of Life.

That is just wrong on so many levels. :laugh:

KronoRed
04-13-2006, 03:24 PM
Well, Larkin was a 1st round draft choice... ;)
EVen worse ;)

reds44
04-13-2006, 10:20 PM
Just to let everyone know, besides the time he was hitting, he spent all of BP standing at third working on his defense.

Heath
04-13-2006, 10:29 PM
Just to let everyone know, besides the time he was hitting, he spent all of BP standing at third working on his defense.

I think its time for a redszone.com collection to get this boy an EdE jersey. :D

reds44
04-13-2006, 10:31 PM
I think its time for a redszone.com collection to get this boy an EdE jersey. :D
I was just saying.

He was the only one doing it the entire time, but BP did alot of work, and Felipe and RA did some.

Bob Borkowski
04-13-2006, 10:34 PM
We would have a serious offensive outage if EE sits Thursday.

Now watch he will sit and we will score 8 runs.


You called it. :eek: :)

reds44
04-13-2006, 10:35 PM
You called it. :eek: :)
:laugh:

Reds Nd2
04-14-2006, 12:25 AM
Here's a follow up on my rant from last night.

http://colorado.rockies.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060413&content_id=1399105&vkey=news_col&fext=.jsp&c_id=col

PHOENIX -- Colorado manager Clint Hurdle issued his first punitive benchings of the season on Thursday night at Arizona, with the main target being left fielder Matt Holliday for costing his team a run with lax baserunning in Wednesday night's 5-4 loss to the Diamondbacks.
Holliday slowed up just before reaching the plate from second on a bases-loaded single. His run didn't count because he didn't get there before the third out occurred at third base. The player that made the faulty baserunning read that led to the out, catcher Danny Ardoin, also arrived to see his name not in the lineup on Thursday night.

Hurdle admitted making a mistake by not sitting center fielder Cory Sullivan when the outfielder got himself picked off first base, with Todd Helton on deck, for the final out of a two-run loss at home to the Diamondbacks last week.

Ardoin entered the day 2-for-20, so not starting him is at least as strategic as anything else. But Holliday is considered a cornerstone of the lineup.

"There come certain situations where I think a manager has an opportunity to make a statement to his team," Hurdle said. "I might have missed one with Sullivan earlier in the season. That kind of falls in the same line of what happened last night, and I just wasn't going to let it go any further.

"Let these guys know that when we don't finish plays ... it basically comes down to a shortage of effort. We're going to make physical mistakes. I'm going to make wrong decisions. Bad judgment comes into play. There are a lot of gray areas. You want the punishment to fit the crime, and in this case, I needed to make a statement to the club."

Holliday, who has struggled while compiling a .242 batting average with one home run and five RBIs in seven appearances, was clearly unhappy after meeting with Hurdle on Thursday afternoon. The previous night, Holliday said he thought he reached the plate before Ardoin was tagged, but split-screen TV replays showed him slowing up well before the plate. Television analysts for both clubs criticized Holliday.

"It doesn't matter," Holliday said when asked if he'd seen a replay. "You can analyze the game any way you want."

Hurdle said he was watching Ardoin at the time and hadn't seen the play for himself, but he took the advice of those he trusts.

Hurdle has been calm and even keeled in handling his club, which is a year removed from being dominated by rookies. The approach has worked this road trip. After losing two of three at home to start the season, the Rockies will return home on Friday with a winning record on the six-game road trip, which ends on Thursday.

However, he has expressed ire at mistakes of omission and poor execution, such as pitcher Aaron Cook walking toward the dugout after only the second out of the first inning of his first start, and when Clint Barmes was unable to get a bunt down in three chances in San Diego. This time, he spoke with his pen while filling out the lineup card.

"It's unfortunate it's Matt," Hurdle said. "But those kind of errors in judgment ... we're not last year's team. We're not going to be last year's team. We are not going to keep continuing to call guys in and just say, 'Don't do this again.'

"This won't be acceptable, no matter who it is. I'm going to set the bar, and I'm going to hold the bar."

EDITED TO ADD: Holliday got a pinch hit double in the 9th inning. He scored on a double by Barmes.