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View Full Version : So IF we made a trade...



jredmo2
04-14-2006, 04:37 AM
..what do we want? What are we willing to give up? Before the season started I'm sure everyone would say we need starting pitching and we would be willing to give up say a Kearns, right? Now it looks like everyone wants relief, for say a Larue. Without a doubt, our bullpen absolutely sucks, and if our team is going to legitamitely contend we're gonna have to shore it up. The frustrating thing for us Reds fans has to be that our rotation has sucked so bad the last few years.. how can we understand and appreciate a good start by our young pitchers when it seems to be instantly ruined by our crappy bullpen veterens. So...

-Do we push for youth? Can Shack and Wagner help our pen enough that we don't even have to make a move?

-Is our rotation even good at all? On one hand, none of the starters are proven aces on any staff. On the other hand, Arroyo is 29 pitching real damn good, Milton has had success, Claussen and Harang have promise and were top prospects in pitching-rich organizations... could they gel to be dominant?

-Do our starters even need to be dominant? Our offense is incredible. I don't know what idiocy keeps Freel out of the lineup and hacks like Womack and Hatteburg in, but regardless from 1-8 our lineup poses problems for pretty much any staff. Lopez needs to be signed long-term, he is by-far the most valuable asset on the team. EE is only going to get better, yes his errors piss me off like anyone, but watching him I have no doubt studliness is in his future. And Dunn is a monster. Kearns is looking to show why he was considered a better all-around prosepect than Dunn. And Griffey.. Jesus the guy is still absolutely DANGEROUS in any situation.

Basically what I'm trying to say is I have the faith. I went to Wrigley Field tuesday and had the pleasure of not only seeing a Jr. homerun land five feet next to me, but also hundreds of Cubs fans being pissed off (a REALLY beautiful thing). i saw the Reds' outfield, during a pitching change, convening solely to heckle the Cubs fans. I saw Griffey giggle like he was 24 years old again.

So doubt if you want to doubt. I'm not denying the team's weaknesses (BULLPEN). But, please let us appreciate possibly one of the most unbelievable lineups ever assembled, and let us appreciate hopefully a GM who knows how to get the rest of the pieces in place.

edabbs44
04-14-2006, 07:39 AM
The pen is my biggest concern. I'd like to keep Dunn, Kearns, EE, Lopez, Freel, Harang, Claussen and Arroyo. Mostly everyone else can go, even Griffey and Milton. But the caveat for those 2 is the money HAS to be put back into the team.

I am a realist and was not expecting much from Cincy this year with their staff. But after the 9 games, I am just hoping they can get a few legit arms in place and...who knows what happens next?

I think we need to cut Hammond and White and call up Shakcelford and Wagner. I really don't think those 2 can do any worse than the other guys. Then I'd call LA and see what is needed for Brazoban, since it seems as if they aren't in love with him. But any trades we make should be with an eye on the future. Hopeully get BP help of pitchers in their 20s, not someone who taught Hammond how to throw his changeup.

RedLegSuperStar
04-14-2006, 08:09 AM
Well you figure.. we have the arms to help our bullpen with the likes of Wagner and Shackelford. I don't see Burns remaining on the big league club so that would open a spot. You figure Wilson should be coming back either this month or early next month, which you could move Williams to spot start/long relief or do the same with Wilson. That improves the bullpen a little. If I were making a trade I'd try to get a Joey Gatheright from Tampa Bay or Starting Pitcher.. because you can't ever have enough pitching.

VI_RedsFan
04-14-2006, 09:53 AM
At this point, I think the only trade we should make should be for bullpen help; I am not concerned about the rotation. Package a catcher and a middle infielder for a couple of relievers (maybe even a 1st baseman too).

I've seen on espn.com that the Reds are shopping Kearns for a DECENT starting pitcher. I don't like this, we should not be trading Kearns right now, especially for only a decent starting pitcher. Austin is finally starting to look like the Kearns of old, and if we are going to trade him for anything, it has to be better than only a decent starter. Or we can go the other way and NOT trade him, and I like that idea.

StillFunkyB
04-14-2006, 09:56 AM
Right now, there are only two players the Reds have that would fetch any real cheese on the market, and that's FeLo and Dunn.

Griffey is going nowhere. 10-5, yada yada yada....

Milton, possibly at the deadline if he pitches very well, and the Reds are out of it. Won't get a whole lot even then.

edabbs44
04-14-2006, 10:41 AM
At this point, I think the only trade we should make should be for bullpen help; I am not concerned about the rotation. Package a catcher and a middle infielder for a couple of relievers (maybe even a 1st baseman too).

I've seen on espn.com that the Reds are shopping Kearns for a DECENT starting pitcher. I don't like this, we should not be trading Kearns right now, especially for only a decent starting pitcher. Austin is finally starting to look like the Kearns of old, and if we are going to trade him for anything, it has to be better than only a decent starter. Or we can go the other way and NOT trade him, and I like that idea.


Agreed on that. Kearns looked like a superstar until Ray King sat on him. If he continues hitting the way he has been, I would only trade him for a pitcher with youth who could contribute NOW. Someone like Brandon McCarthy.

Krusty
04-14-2006, 11:25 AM
How about Homer Bailey and Chris Denorfia for LHP Dontrelle Willis?

KearnsyEars
04-14-2006, 11:27 AM
I think you guys will regret it in 5 years if Kearns is traded, time and time again. He's going to be really really good. Not superstar, but I forsee big time solid numbers out of him for the next 7-8 years.

edabbs44
04-14-2006, 11:35 AM
I think you guys will regret it in 5 years if Kearns is traded, time and time again. He's going to be really really good. Not superstar, but I forsee big time solid numbers out of him for the next 7-8 years.

I don't think anyone on this thread wants to trade Kearns. But if we got a young, potential stud SP I don't think anyone would complain, either. I would trade Kearns for McCarthy.

Patrick Bateman
04-14-2006, 11:43 AM
How about Homer Bailey and Chris Denorfia for LHP Dontrelle Willis?

If the Marlins wanted to trade WIllis, and offered him up for bidding, Bailey and Denorfia would get you about half way there.

indyred
04-14-2006, 11:50 AM
I'd be calling the Twins.....they have some nice young rocket arms.......Rincon or Crain would be a nice pick up..........and I think Kearns could net one of them..........

BuckeyeRedleg
04-14-2006, 11:52 AM
How about Homer Bailey and Chris Denorfia for LHP Dontrelle Willis?


In a heartbeat.

edabbs44
04-14-2006, 12:26 PM
I'd be calling the Twins.....they have some nice young rocket arms.......Rincon or Crain would be a nice pick up..........and I think Kearns could net one of them..........

I would love Crain, but Kearns would be a little too much for him. I'd want something else in the mix as well.

NewEraReds
04-14-2006, 01:07 PM
..what do we want? What are we willing to give up? Before the season started I'm sure everyone would say we need starting pitching and we would be willing to give up say a Kearns, right? Now it looks like everyone wants relief, for say a Larue. Without a doubt, our bullpen absolutely sucks, and if our team is going to legitamitely contend we're gonna have to shore it up. The frustrating thing for us Reds fans has to be that our rotation has sucked so bad the last few years.. how can we understand and appreciate a good start by our young pitchers when it seems to be instantly ruined by our crappy bullpen veterens. So...

-Do we push for youth? Can Shack and Wagner help our pen enough that we don't even have to make a move?

-Is our rotation even good at all? On one hand, none of the starters are proven aces on any staff. On the other hand, Arroyo is 29 pitching real damn good, Milton has had success, Claussen and Harang have promise and were top prospects in pitching-rich organizations... could they gel to be dominant?

-Do our starters even need to be dominant? Our offense is incredible. I don't know what idiocy keeps Freel out of the lineup and hacks like Womack and Hatteburg in, but regardless from 1-8 our lineup poses problems for pretty much any staff. Lopez needs to be signed long-term, he is by-far the most valuable asset on the team. EE is only going to get better, yes his errors piss me off like anyone, but watching him I have no doubt studliness is in his future. And Dunn is a monster. Kearns is looking to show why he was considered a better all-around prosepect than Dunn. And Griffey.. Jesus the guy is still absolutely DANGEROUS in any situation.

Basically what I'm trying to say is I have the faith. I went to Wrigley Field tuesday and had the pleasure of not only seeing a Jr. homerun land five feet next to me, but also hundreds of Cubs fans being pissed off (a REALLY beautiful thing). i saw the Reds' outfield, during a pitching change, convening solely to heckle the Cubs fans. I saw Griffey giggle like he was 24 years old again.

So doubt if you want to doubt. I'm not denying the team's weaknesses (BULLPEN). But, please let us appreciate possibly one of the most unbelievable lineups ever assembled, and let us appreciate hopefully a GM who knows how to get the rest of the pieces in place.
i wouldnt have said to trade kearns. in fact i would never say that. hes one of our best all around performers. we currently have 3 guys i would not move, Lopez, Freel and Kearns. id move dunn and get as much good and young pitching as possible, IF i were to make any moves(and thats not counting small ones involving an aurillia or something) personally i like our team as is right now with the exception of our bullpenn. but i wouldnt want to hurt our team in the field just yet in a trade


as for lopez, he needs locked up NOW

NewEraReds
04-14-2006, 01:08 PM
In a heartbeat.
i dont know if id do that. but then ive never been a fan of willis'.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-14-2006, 01:13 PM
i dont know if id do that. but then ive never been a fan of willis'.

If we are really lucky, Bailey will be 3/4 the talent of Dontrelle Willis.

And we'd have to wait 3-4 years to even find out.

As some have said, if you can flip a HS arm that has the law of averages stacked up against him for a sure thing, you do it.

Krusty
04-14-2006, 01:20 PM
Add Ryan Wagner to the deal.

Bailey, Wagner, Denorifia for Willis.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-14-2006, 01:23 PM
I still do it.

reds44
04-14-2006, 01:24 PM
I agree with you on Felipe, although I think everyone knows that by now.

Patrick Bateman
04-14-2006, 01:24 PM
Add Ryan Wagner to the deal.

Bailey, Wagner, Denorifia for Willis.

Add in EE and they might start thinking about it.

pedro
04-14-2006, 01:28 PM
I think everyone has to be available in the right trade.

The needs are as follows IMO.

Pitching, a good defensive CF, Pitching, a good defensive SS, Pitching and Pitching.

Oh, did I mention pitching?

KronoRed
04-14-2006, 03:42 PM
Add in EE and they might start thinking about it.
+ Votto

redsfan30
04-14-2006, 03:49 PM
Milton, possibly at the deadline if he pitches very well, and the Reds are out of it. Won't get a whole lot even then.
That's a catch-22. If Milton pitches well, there's a good chance the Reds will still be breathing at the deadline.

KronoRed
04-14-2006, 03:50 PM
If it's over 5 games out I'd still deal him, he's gonna make 10 mill next year, I'd want that gone.

LoganBuck
04-14-2006, 04:28 PM
I keep seeing people saying that Lopez needs locked up now. I think we should look at it as a mortal lock that Lopez will leave the Reds when he gets to Free Agency. Remember he is a Boras client. He will demand top of the market money. The Reds won't have the cash to pay him, and I doubt that Boras will take a hometown discount.

indyred
04-14-2006, 04:34 PM
If Lopez has another big season..he's going to want the 10-12 million dollar a year long term deal.......something like 5 year for 60 million.....would the Reds pay that.......

Aronchis
04-14-2006, 04:46 PM
Remember, Felipe can be the coldest hitter on the planet at times. Remember Felipe Augest 2005........brrrrrr. I think that will keep his value down somewhat though the cold streaks may not be as long this year.

If the Reds make a trade in the coming future, it will be with Austin Kearns going for a young arm(Scott Baker sir?). The rumors, like with Pena, are to strong to ignore. With Griffey BADLY needing to leave CF. I could see Griff moving to RF(not that I would love him in that position, but it would be better than CF and he probably won't accept a trade) with Deno coming into CF. Votto than would be groomed for 1st.

Matter of fact, the only reason the trade hasn't been made IMO, is because Kearns can't fetch a Scott Baker...........yet.

columbusbrian
04-14-2006, 04:47 PM
I thought there was going to be a trade by now, but judging by the way things are shaping up, I'd bet nothing happens until at least mid-June, and maybe not until the dead line. No one (at least on this thread) is considering what will happen when Wilson comes back in 3-4 weeks. In all likelihood he or Williams will go to the pen. If either Hammonds or White are droped for that, then I think there either of their continued presence as a place holder in out of reach games is not a huge deal.

Adding Wilson/Williams into the pen as a potential mid/long reliever might actual allow the BP to congeal a little bit. Shack and Wagner are obviously workable options meaning that there is a little depth, even if is not a best of all worlds situation.

I think this team, for better or worse is going to drag along the extra fat being carried on the roster simply because there really isn't anything substantially better on the farm at the moment. All of the suggested trades really require more than the reds can or should give up, and would basically end the season anyways. I wouldn't be surprised to see Milton moved mid season for workable prospects just to free up money to sign in the offseason. That to me is the real wild card. Krivskey is less likely to make any moves that don't free up money to make some big signings in the offseason with an above average FA pool to draw from after the season.

The next move is likely that Abad gets sent down to make room for McCraken, not a trade.