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View Full Version : Game 11: Reds (7-3) @ Cardinals (5-5) Game Thread



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paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:02 PM
Unless someone else has the horn, of course.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:02 PM
Krono, you wanna do pbp? It's all yours if you want it.
I'll tell it like it is.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:02 PM
My reputation is down to 4 ... thanks guys, nice to know you take it out on someone when you don't like what they like.


Negging people for disagreeing. Grow up, folks.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:03 PM
Belisle has good stuff.. I think he deserves a shot..

His heater has some ooomph, and his curve is pretty nasty if I remember right.. The one game that sticks out in my mind is that spot start he had last year vs. the cards.. and if I remember correctly he dominated.

He had another really good spot start in a day game against the Nationals.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:03 PM
Marty is a perfect example of someone who never played and has ZERO appreciation for how difficult baseball is to play at any level much less the majors. Add to the fact he has done nothing to educate himself about the statistical revolution that has taken place and compound it with a smugness that he is right about any topic he chooses to comment about simply because of his authority as a HOF broadcaster.

MWM
04-15-2006, 04:03 PM
Which by my summation consists of about 95% of the action.

Joe Nuxhall, former player never rode the players as much as Marty... could it be because he knows how hard it is?

Good point. I never tired of Joe. It was time for him to go, but I mise Joe. I can't wait for the day when Marty leaves the booth and I can start listening to the Reds on the radio again. I love listening to baseball on the radio. It's been about 3 years since I've been able to do so. I've listened to about 5 games over the last 3 years. And it's ususally when I've been in the car with my dad.

membengal
04-15-2006, 04:03 PM
My reputation is down to 4 ... thanks guys, nice to know you take it out on someone when you don't like what they like.

Perhaps they are just doing like Marty and "telling it like it is"?

M2
04-15-2006, 04:03 PM
What's the team doubles record?

Because someday I expect Encarnacion to break it.

pedro
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
Belisle has good stuff.. I think he deserves a shot..

His heater has some ooomph, and his curve is pretty nasty if I remember right.. The one game that sticks out in my mind is that spot start he had last year vs. the cards.. and if I remember correctly he dominated.


yeah, but the next start he pitched against the cubs and they sat on that curve and killed him.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
I don't really care about it .. I'm just saying. Before I came here I honestly thought Marty was well loved by practically all Reds fans ... I never knew this kind of hate existed ... wow. I'm just shocked, I think he's entertaining, he laughs and jokes around with Steve all the time and whoever comes in the booth. When the Reds are doing aweome, like in 1999 he seemed as optomistic as anyone. You make it sound like he sits in the booth grinding his teeth shaking his fist at the field.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
Negging people for disagreeing. Grow up, folks.

True. I disagree with FCB all the time, but the only rep I have ever given him has been positive! :cool:

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
Brad Thompson in..he's a righty

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:04 PM
Brad Thompson in to pitch.

Redeye fly
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
So people are going to complain as long as he has flaws? That's too bad, because Adam Dunn is never going to be Albert Pujols. He's never going to be Barry Bonds or A-Rod. If that's what people expect they're never going to be happy. Dunn isn't the best player in the game. He's a flawed player, but he's still a great offensive force. What he does contribute far outshadows his flaws, which he certainly has. Unfortunately, I think the attempt to "improve" on those things is actually having a counter productive impact on his performance in the very situations he supposedly needs to improve on.
Again, I'm not disagreeing. I'm just saying that the argument used to be Adam Dunn is great or will be great versus Adam Dunn sucks or Adam Dunn is just another Dave Kingman or Rob Deer. I very distinctly remember the rash of people who argued the latter. I'm not seeing that anymore, but I think there are some people who actually overreact a little bit in defending Adam because they think that people again are saying or thinking "Dunn sucks" or "Dunn's a bum" and looking at it objectively I'm seeing very few people, if any, actually saying that.

And again, while I can certainly agree with the point of a counter productive impact, there's nothing wrong with wanting to see improvement, whether it's Dunn making adjustments and expanding his strike zone (one argument) or going back to having the same approach every at bat and be willing to work a walk in those situations(the other argument). Either way the indisputable fact is Adam's struggling with guys on base and in scoring position right now, and good advice, bad advice, or too much advice I don't think it's wrong for any Reds fan,player, coach, or announcer to want to see that change.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
baseball is all about failure. If Marty had ever played he would know that and would give him some much needed perspective.

westofyou
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
When the Reds are doing aweome, like in 1999 he seemed as optomistic as anyone.My stock portfolio looked better then too.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
40 point rep bump for ya there GOReds ;)

pedro
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Negging people for disagreeing. Grow up, folks.


no kidding. that's bush.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Kearns lines a single to center. 6-2 Cards.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
Kearns singles EE in

Come back time.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
yeah, but the next start he pitched against the cubs and they sat on that curve and killed him.

hes young, gotta find some consistency.. but I think he has considerably more upside than Williams..

paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:05 PM
40 point rep bump for ya there GOReds ;)

There's a lesson in there somewhere but I can't just can't find it. ;)

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:06 PM
Fantic can do PBP..I have to go to church in a bit..I feel that's my best hope for helping the Reds ;)

westofyou
04-15-2006, 04:06 PM
Fantic can do PBP..I have to go to church in a bit..I feel that's my best hope for helping the Reds ;)
Don't drop the host.

pedro
04-15-2006, 04:06 PM
hes young, gotta find some consistency.. but I think he has considerably more upside than Williams..


hard to argue with that.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
McCracken on deck.

paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Meanwhile, kearns single drives in EE to make it a 6-2 ballgame. Still 1 out.

M2
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
I don't really care about it .. I'm just saying. Before I came here I honestly thought Marty was well loved by practically all Reds fans ... I never knew this kind of hate existed ... wow. I'm just shocked, I think he's entertaining, he laughs and jokes around with Steve all the time and whoever comes in the booth. When the Reds are doing aweome, like in 1999 he seemed as optomistic as anyone. You make it sound like he sits in the booth grinding his teeth shaking his fist at the field.

IIRC, he griped about the 1999 team pretty much the entire season.

In fact, that was year when I began to wonder why the franchise puts up with this clown.

kaldaniels
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Hats off to Belisle today.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Valentin lines into a DP at 1st. 6-2 Cards mid 7th.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Unassisted Dbl play...on to the bottom.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
hard to argue with that.

LOL.. love the avitar.. just noticed it.. :laugh:

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:07 PM
Damn ... double play ... coulda had a big rally chance if he missed that one.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:08 PM
I I think he's entertaining, he laughs and jokes around with Steve all the time and whoever comes in the booth. you mean not paying attention to calling the game and think that people tune in to listen to Marty and his shtick and not Reds baseball.

I quit listening because it morphed into the Marty show and quit being about the game.

paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:08 PM
you mean not paying attention to calling the game and think that people tune in to listen to Marty and his shtick and not Reds baseball.


Potato, potahto....

membengal
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Sounds like the Reds have hit their share of bullets today, but just at people. Too bad...one of those days.

I wouldn't know, btw, it's blacked out here in Memphis. Apparently we are still a Cards market here, and despite the fact that it is NOT on Fox Sports Midwest, I am denied it. So...Mike Shannon and Matt "Belize" it is...

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
I would give Belisle one more inning.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Give Marty a pre game show and let Steve and Joe call the action.

Steve PBP Joe the other guy.

pedro
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
LOL.. love the avitar.. just noticed it.. :laugh:


I'm trying to bring a little class to my game.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Mike Burns in to pitch.

paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:09 PM
Okay Burns, 1-2-3 this inning. Please.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:10 PM
Burns.

Helmets on.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:10 PM
. So...Mike Shannon and Matt "Belize" it is...

Isn't it "BE-LYE-L"?

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
J. Encarnacion double to left off Dunn's glove.

membengal
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Isn't it "BE-LYE-L"?

Yes. To the rest of the universe.

In Mike Shannon's world, it is Matt "Belize".

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
The earth shakes.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Give Marty a pre game show and let Steve and Joe call the action.

Steve PBP Joe the other guy.If they were smart they would bring Dan Hoard back to Cincy

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Molina sacrifices the runner to 3rd. 1 out.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:11 PM
Burns has a WHIP higher than his ERA.

paintmered
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Dunn had it in his glove but it popped out when he hit the ground from his dive. We can call it a dive, right?

Scored a double. Sportstalk callers are already chomping at the bit.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
It will be tough to have many comeback victories this season with this BP. When 6-2 games become 10-2, all hope goes out the window.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Burns has a WHIP higher than his ERA.
That's an accomplishment

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
Man.. Dunn has looked pretty bad in LF this year...

vaticanplum
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
What's the score now? I've lost track.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:12 PM
J. Encarnacion double to left off Dunn's glove.


Dunn made a sensational effort on that play, btw. Just squirted out of his glove on impact with the ground.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:13 PM
So how many games is CE working this year? :D

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:13 PM
Burns.

Helmets on.

AIR RAID! AIR RAID!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/ed/Frank-burns-sized.jpg

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:13 PM
Luna drives in the run with a bloop hit to right. 7-2 Cards

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:13 PM
Dunn made a sensational effort on that play, btw. Just squirted out of his glove on impact with the ground.

Effort aside, it seems like most anything hit Dunn's way these days turns into a double...

I'm confident that wont be the case all year though..

membengal
04-15-2006, 04:14 PM
When you let Hector Luna go off in a game, you probably are not going to win...

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:14 PM
"Albert" Luna makes it 7-2.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:14 PM
Damn ... I guess you can't expect to go into St Louis and sweep the Cardinals, no matter how good the Reds started. Hopefully tomorrow we can get the series win, but I thought today was a golden opportunity with Ponson pitching. Game isn't over yet though!

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:14 PM
Schumaker flies out to right. 2 outs.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:14 PM
Dunn made a sensational effort on that play, btw. Just squirted out of his glove on impact with the ground.Dunn is a poor OF who should be playing 1B. A few years from now he will wonder how he ended up being a DH.

MWM
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
I'm watching Buster Olney on ESPNNews right now and he starts almost every sentence with, "I spoke to a scout last week".

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Spezio owns us.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Bombs Away!!

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Crap ..2 run HR .. nevermind then. We need some bullpen help badly.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Effort aside, it seems like most anything hit Dunn's way these days turns into a double...

I'm confident that wont be the case all year though..


It was an "excuse-me" off the end of the bat flare to left, Dunn charged like hell to even get there.

It's stuff like homers to Scott Spiezio that kill you. :rolleyes:

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
That pretty much ends this one. Spiezio hits a 2 run pinch hit homer. 9-2 Cards.

membengal
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
When you keep running Mike Burns out there, only people like me, who are stuck with Scott Spezio in deep NL only fantasy leagues, benefit...

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
Like I said, I would have left Belisle in to pitch.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:15 PM
I'm watching Buster Olney on ESPNNews right now and he starts almost every sentence with, "I spoke to a scout last week".

Is Buster Olney the guy with the terribly annoying lisp?

The Baumer
04-15-2006, 04:16 PM
It burrns. It Burrrns.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:16 PM
Of course who would have guessed. It's not like Burns didn't have a serious problem with gopher balls last year.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:16 PM
Oh this is getting bad.

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:16 PM
The Reds have gave up 9 runs today to a Triple-A lineup. Rolen and Pujols are the only major league hitters in that lineup.

M2
04-15-2006, 04:16 PM
Noooo! It Burns us!

http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/avl/pics/lotr/ttt/gollum.jpg

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Eckstein reaches on a bad throw by Encarnacion but Aurilia throws him out going to 2nd. 9-2 Cards after 7.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Speizio. Seriously. Burns can go hang out with White and Hammond for all I care.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
A curtain call for extending a five-run lead to a seven-run lead?! Pretty bush-league, if you ask me.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Pen smells like day old taco bell.

M2
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Is Buster Olney the guy with the terribly annoying lisp?

This would as opposed to the folks with an appealing and mellifluous lisp?

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Of course who would have guessed. It's not like Burns didn't have a serious problem with gopher balls last year.

When he sent his resume to the Reds, that was actually the part he boldfaced.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:17 PM
Crap ..2 run HR .. nevermind then. We need some bullpen help badly.Whatever gave you that idea. ANd what about Marty and his pumping up the "much improved bullpen" before the season when anyone could see the pen with Burns, Hammonds and White was a disaster waiting to happen.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:18 PM
Heads-up defense by Rich!

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:18 PM
http://www.cnn.com/interactive/entertainment/0302/gallery.simpsons.characters/gallery.mr.burns.jpg

Not so excellent...

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:18 PM
I bet that Burns would do better

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:18 PM
That was brutal. Good thing we still have the residual glow of last night's game.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Looper in to pitch.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Hey Unassisted! nice to see ya :)

westofyou
04-15-2006, 04:19 PM
That was brutal. Good thing we still have the residual glow of last night's game.
Hey stranger.... nice avatar.. send it here

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:19 PM
Just not our day..hitting stuff right at people

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Pujols is an excellent 1st baseman.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Brandon Phillips pinch hitting lines out right to Pujols.

M2
04-15-2006, 04:20 PM
The San Antonio Marlins could be the best franchise name since the Utah Jazz.

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2006, 04:20 PM
Chris Hammond now warming up in the Reds bullpen, because somewhere God is saying "How can this be funnier?"

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:21 PM
Freel grounds out to short. 2 outs.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 04:21 PM
At least all the whiners in "Cardinals Nation" that were likely put on suicide watch after last night's game can be giddy with happiness again today at the backyard BBQ

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:21 PM
The San Antonio Marlins could be the best franchise name since the Utah Jazz.
La Lakers?

CTA513
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Chris Hammond now warming up in the Reds bullpen, because somewhere God is saying "How can this be funnier?"

They could have just let Belisle pitch the rest of the game instead of using up the rest of the bullpen.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Chris Hammond now warming up in the Reds bullpen, because somewhere God is saying "How can this be funnier?"
Better to use the bad pitchers in a sure loss

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Pujols is an excellent 1st baseman.

He was a pretty good 3b too before Rolen came along if I remember correctly..

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Now I have to come up with new nicknames. A couple years ago I had Jimmy Haynes Her Way, Danny "Dig your own" Graves, and Ryan Dumpster.

Any suggestions?

M2
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
La Lakers?

That's the funniest pre-Jazz nickname.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:22 PM
Lopez grounds out to 2nd. 9-2 Cards mid 8th.

Chip R
04-15-2006, 04:23 PM
I am not one for saying, Get rid of this guy or get rid of that guy but could we please end the Mike Burns experiment now?

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:24 PM
On the way home from St.Lou send Burns to Louisville.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:24 PM
I am not one for saying, Get rid of this guy or get rid of that guy but could we please end the Mike Burns experiment now?tell him to get in line behind Hammonds and White. Of course all of it was entirely predictable.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:25 PM
I am not one for saying, Get rid of this guy or get rid of that guy but could we please end the Mike Burns experiment now?

But.. But.. he had a good ERA when converted to a reliever in the minors..

Just sayin

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Phillips stays in the game at SS.
Hammond now pitching and batting 2nd.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Third Degree Burns. Chris Hammond on Big Fly. Rick "If Giving Up HRs Is Wrong, I Don't Wanna Be" White.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Albert up, the cycle is no longer a possibility

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:25 PM
Hammond in to pitch.
Taguchi strikes out swinging.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Raining at the stadium now

traderumor
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Pile on Hammond all you want, but this is the type of game for him to try and get some things in order.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Hammond's ERA is now 36.00

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
But.. But.. he had a good ERA when converted to a reliever in the minors..

Just sayinbut last year he was HR happy at both AAA and in the majors. Certainly not a sign of impending success.

Matt700wlw
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Hammond goes 1,2,3!!

:shocked:

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
On to the 9th..Dunn Aurilia and Hatteberg to start the rally.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Hammond with a 1-2-3.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:26 PM
Tommy "Hitman" Burns.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Pile on Hammond all you want, but this is the type of game for him to try and get some things in order.He still serves no purpose. Hey maybe Jerry will use him to close tomorrow.

Chip R
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
tell him to get in line behind Hammonds and White. Of course all of it was entirely predictable.

I am less concerned with those guys than I am with Burns.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Pujols and Rolen ground out. 9-2 Cards after 8.
Now raining in St. Louis. We needed rain about 2 hours ago.

M2
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Hammond in to pitch.
Taguchi strikes out swinging.

Taguchi has whiffed against both Williams and Hammonds today. He ought to be forced to pay a year's salary to the Cardinals kangaroo court.

vaticanplum
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Raining at the stadium now

As it is in my heart.

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:27 PM
Nice inning by Hammond.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:28 PM
Rincon in.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:29 PM
Ricardo Rincon in to pitch.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:29 PM
Rally time!

Gallen5862
04-15-2006, 04:29 PM
What is Hammonds ERA now?

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:29 PM
his era is 6.25 :) which means atleast 6 runs sweetness hah

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
No way!!!!!!!!!!!

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
Booooooooo.

Not a strike.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
What is Hammonds ERA now?

36.00

Matt700wlw
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
Dunn out.

Raining (lightly).

Hurry up!!! :D

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
Dunn strikes out looking. 1 out.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
that pitch was only 6 inches outside

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
this freaking strikezone will kill you

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:30 PM
36.00 for Ham.

Gallen5862
04-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Hey Hammonds ERA is improving at least.

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:31 PM
Hes calling that pitch thats freaking gay

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:32 PM
Aurilia walks.

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:32 PM
just me or has the last 2 dunn strikeouts been rip offs?

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:32 PM
John Allen sighting

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:32 PM
just me or has the last 2 dunn strikeouts been rip offs?
Yes they have.

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:32 PM
Screw home plate umps. Go with questec. Just think how much better Dunn would be if they used questec.

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Dunn has a strong case there.

Umpire was probably tired of getting rained on.

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:33 PM
Dunn has a strong case there.

Umpire was probably tired of getting rained on.

Maybe this time but its happend already once before:mooner: oops sorry ump

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:33 PM
just me or has the last 2 dunn strikeouts been rip offs?

The first one was legit. Dunn swung at two pitches in the dirt during that atbat.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:34 PM
Hatte has 1 HR and 3 RBI. Very productive since his first AB.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:34 PM
Screw home plate umps. Go with questec. Just think how much better Dunn would be if they used questec.
Agreed, only use umps for calls at bases.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Hatteberg strikes out swinging. 2 outs.

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:35 PM
:( 1 more out!

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:35 PM
can we do what they did to us last year?????

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:35 PM
Hatteberg now batting .136 why is he batting 5th????

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:36 PM
EE plunked.

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:36 PM
We need 1B.

In order of need:

Bullpen help
Another starter
First baseman

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Encarnacion hit by the pitch. 1st and 2nd with 2 outs.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Hatteberg now batting .136 why is he batting 5th????
he knows how to play the game

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:36 PM
Hah starting to smell like last year other way around :)

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:37 PM
We need 1B.

In order of need:

Bullpen help
Another starter
________

Stracht first baseman we have Dunn! :) Which allows Chris or someone esle to play outfield:beerme:

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:38 PM
run differential back to zero

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:38 PM
I see no evidence the front office is aware of the problems or has a clue about potential solutions

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:39 PM
Kearns stayin alive.

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:39 PM
Would Griffey be out pinch hit if needed??

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:39 PM
The Reds are alive..Kearns with a DBL

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:40 PM
Kearns lines a double to the left field corner. One run scores. 2nd and 3rd with 2 outs. 9-3.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:40 PM
+ 1 in run differential ;)

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:40 PM
To the pen.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:40 PM
Kearns hits a double .. good job Kearns! He's kicking butt this year. A nice RBI. At least we got them to change pitchers, make them work to get this game.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
OK, Kearns needs to move up in the order. He should hit fourth while Griffey is out, and hit fifth once Griffey is back.

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Kearns already has 6 doubles on the young season.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Would Griffey be out pinch hit if needed??I would think only if he were to be the tying run cause Narron still has the scrappy McCracken

Matt700wlw
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
La Russa.....6 run lead, 2 out, top 9 and he makes a pitching change.

As Marty said..."shades of Bob Boone"

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Ya quinton but who knows :)

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
JTM sucks.

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:41 PM
Almost feel sorry for Rincon. I thought he appeared to be making good pitches when he came out there.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
OK, Kearns needs to move up in the order. He should hit fourth while Griffey is out, and hit fifth once Griffey is back.not while the Reds have Aurilia and Hatteberg they could bat there:help:

NatiRedGals
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
can we repeat last year :) But turn it back to them ! !!!!!

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
I see no evidence the front office is aware of the problems or has a clue about potential solutions

Yikes.. its only 11 games.. we are 3 games above .500.

I for one don't see the need for the front office to panic, and go make a kneejerk trade because some guys are struggling. We're not even past month 1 of baseball(not counting march).

Patience guys.. patience. Long way to go yet, things could improve... and if not, i'm confident Krivsky will get something done that is beneficial to the team.

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Josh Hancock in for the Cards.

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
This is why I dislike Tony LaRussa -- this game is a laugher with the bottom of the lineup coming up.

Save your bullpen, let Rincon take care of this. If he can't make one more out, what's he good for?

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:42 PM
Almost feel sorry for Rincon. I thought he appeared to be making good pitches when he came out there.it apeeared to me he was getting a lot of help from an umpire ready for the game to end.

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:43 PM
LOL I guess Hancock has a chance for sweet revenge huh?

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:43 PM
The most distressing news today from this game is not that Williams sucks--most of us knew that; the scary thing about today is that the Cards have resurrected yet another corpse in the person of Sidney Ponson.

The Cards are going to ride 4 mediocre starters over the Central once again: Mulder, Suppan, Ponson, and Marquis. That's unreal, folks.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:43 PM
Yikes.. its only 11 games.. we are 3 games above .500.

I for one don't see the need for the front office to panic, and go make a kneejerk trade because some guys are struggling. We're not even past month 1 of baseball(not counting march).print those playoff tickets. Do you remember 2004?

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:43 PM
So LaRussa turns Valentin around to bat from his stronger side. Even if this works for the Cards, it is a bad move.

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:43 PM
It would be ironic to see Hancock close the door here.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:44 PM
Yikes.. its only 11 games.. we are 3 games above .500.

I for one don't see the need for the front office to panic, and go make a kneejerk trade because some guys are struggling. We're not even past month 1 of baseball(not counting march).

Patience guys.. patience. Long way to go yet, things could improve... and if not, i'm confident Krivsky will get something done that is beneficial to the team.


If the people who were struggling were their better players, then I would agree. But when the question marks of the team are hitting .136 or have ERAs in the 30s, then a move has to be made.

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:45 PM
I disagree.

Ponson will be lucky to post an ERA under 5.00 this year. He looked bad against the Cubs and didn't look all that great today vs the Reds. A more patient team would have eaten him alive today.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Game over.

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Who's starting the LaRue countdown?

Reds Fanatic
04-15-2006, 04:45 PM
Valentin strikes out swinging. Game over. Cards win 9-3.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Sure glad we have Burns and White instead of Hancock. I am sure making a point was more important.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:46 PM
print those playoff tickets. Do you remember 2004?

I'm not here proclaiming we're playoff bound.. I'm not here proclaiming we're 2 relievers away. More than likely, we'll struggle to get close to .500.. its a long process.

All I'm trying to stress is that Krivsky has been on the job what.. 3 months? 4? And we're only about 1/16th done with the season..

Lets not hit the big red panic button yet.

KronoRed
04-15-2006, 04:46 PM
46 here for the titanic struggle.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:46 PM
Who's starting the LaRue countdown?not until Jr goes to the DL

GOREDSGO32
04-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Game over, but I feel good about the fact Arroyo is pitching tomorrow. Hopefully these types of games aren't what we'll be seeing from Dave Williams this year.

NC Reds
04-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Bring back Wagner for the pen.

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2006, 04:47 PM
Sure glad we have Burns and White instead of Hancock. I am sure making a point was more important.

To borrow from The Producers -- it's merely a distinction between the quick fuse and the short fuse.

Either way, something's gonna blow up badly.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:47 PM
I'm not here proclaiming we're playoff bound.. I'm not here proclaiming we're 2 relievers away. More than likely, we'll struggle to get close to .500.. its a long process.

All I'm trying to stress is that Krivsky has been on the job what.. 3 months? 4? And we're only about 1/16th done with the season..

Lets not hit the big red panic button yet.nothing to panic about. This team as currently composed just isn't very good. The holes are numerous and obvious.

Unassisted
04-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Season is now more than 1/16 over. ;)

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:48 PM
I disagree.

Ponson will be lucky to post an ERA under 5.00 this year. He looked bad against the Cubs and didn't look all that great today vs the Reds. A more patient team would have eaten him alive today.

nah. He looked good. He had the Reds' hitters timing off in all kinds of ways. Two or three hard-hit balls all day off him.

If Ponson pitches like he did today all season, he'll post a sub 4.00 ERA easily. Now, there's no way of knowing if he can keep every lineup off balance like that.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Sure glad we have Burns and White instead of Hancock. I am sure making a point was more important.

You really think Hancock is any good? I don't. Ok, so he struck out a guy with a six-run lead. It doesn't make him any better than the guys we have.

westofyou
04-15-2006, 04:48 PM
Lets not hit the big red panic button yet.

It's the Redszone way...

MWM
04-15-2006, 04:49 PM
The most distressing news today from this game is not that Williams sucks--most of us knew that; the scary thing about today is that the Cards have resurrected yet another corpse in the person of Sidney Ponson.

The Cards are going to ride 4 mediocre starters over the Central once again: Mulder, Suppan, Ponson, and Marquis. That's unreal, folks.

Maybe, but I don't think Ponson will amount to much this year. This is just one good game, which has been his MO his entire career. His first outing wasn't very good. I think he'll wind up throwing close to 200 innings with an ERA around 4.9. That's not awful, but it's not very good. I think the Cards will win the Central, but mostly because there really isn't any other really good teams (unless Clemens returns to Houston).I think they'll win 90-92 games.

Chip R
04-15-2006, 04:50 PM
FWIW, George saying Hancock would have been paid at least $200K even if he had not made the Reds out of ST. The more things change...

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:50 PM
You really think Hancock is any good? I don't. Ok, so he struck out a guy with a six-run lead. It doesn't make him any better than the guys we have.I have no problem prediciting he will have a better year than White and Burns. You want to get players attention and make a point, then cut a starter not the 11th or 12th pitcher on you staff. Cutting Hancock was dumb before you find out if he could help. He is likely to end up being better than White or Burns.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:50 PM
If the people who were struggling were their better players, then I would agree. But when the question marks of the team are hitting .136 or have ERAs in the 30s, then a move has to be made.

Give me a break.. 11 games. Small sample sizes everywhere. Things can improve awfully quick. Even Rich Aurilla started off last year very slow(again this year) and turned it up over the course of the season.

say it with me.. 11 games.. 11 games..

1/2 way through april...

I dont know if I'm in the minority around here, but I don't expect us to contend this year. Realistically, I'm not sure Krivs does either. And I dont think he thinks Womack, Hatt, Hammond, etc are long term solutions.

Baseball is a game of patience. It is timeless. The only sport I can think of that truely is. lets take a deep breath fans, recognize we're still 3 games up over .500, and we have what.. 151 more games to go?

OnBaseMachine
04-15-2006, 04:52 PM
nah. He looked good. He had the Reds' hitters timing off in all kinds of ways. Two or three hard-hit balls all day off him.

If Ponson pitches like he did today all season, he'll post a sub 4.00 ERA easily. Now, there's no way of knowing if he can keep every lineup off balance like that.

I think it was the Reds that made him look good. They were swinging at pitches that would make Tony Womack blush.

BTW, I don't have any kids yet, but I would willing to wager my first born(whenevr that is) that Ponson will not post an ERA under the 5.00 mark this year. ;)

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:52 PM
It's the Redszone way...
No panic, I just am not fooled by a 7-3 start.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 04:53 PM
Post-game comments:

Belisle pitched very well (three innings of shutout relief). Could he possibly have been auditioning for a future start?

Spiezio has one in the earhole coming to him. A curtain call for extending a five-run lead to a seven-run lead is bush.

("One in the earhole" is a figure of speech, folks. I don't mean he should get hit in the head. But he should definitely get plunked.)

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:54 PM
nothing to panic about. This team as currently composed just isn't very good. The holes are numerous and obvious.

And have been for a long, long time. And unfortunately, there isn't many in house options that would make us significantly better. Give Krivsky a good offseason to shore up the holes... At the deadline, and this offseason, will be the test of Krivsky's true abilities as a GM...

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:55 PM
I dont know if I'm in the minority around here, but I don't expect us to contend this year. Realistically, I'm not sure Krivs does either. And I dont think he thinks Womack, Hatt, Hammond, etc are long term solutions. Then why have them around? Having them around actually smacks of a GM thinking this team can compete and wants some guys around who have been there before.

If Krivsky believes this team cant compete there is no point to the vets when potentially better short term and obviously better long term replacements are everywhere

flyer85
04-15-2006, 04:56 PM
And have been for a long, long time. And unfortunately, there isn't many in house options that would make us significantly better. Give Krivsky a good offseason to shore up the holes... At the deadline, and this offseason, will be the test of Krivsky's true abilities as a GM...Sounds a lot like the slack DanO got after he got here when most were left scratching their heads by his moves. Deja vu.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 04:58 PM
No panic, I just am not fooled by a 7-3 start.

Niether am I..

But thats not to say that players such as hammond, aurillia, hatteberg, wont improve from where they currently are over the course of the year. Does taht make us contenders? In my mind, absolutely not..

I'm just saying that a slow start does not make it necessary to cut ties with such a player after 11 games.

Falls City Beer
04-15-2006, 04:58 PM
I tend to judge a pitcher's start by the kinds of contact made by the hitters--were they late getting around on the ball, weird swings, fouls, popups, etc? If the answer to the above questions is: yes, all those things, then I generally feel that the pitcher was having a good game. I could answer yes to all those questions today with Ponson. No one looked very comfortable in there against him.

Caveat Emperor
04-15-2006, 05:01 PM
No one looked very comfortable in there against him.

They were all bedazzled by his awe-inspiring physique and chisled-from-stone body.

The Cardinals probably told Ponson that the sooner he retired the Reds, the sooner he could get at the Post game buffet.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:01 PM
Niether am I..

But thats not to say that players such as hammond, aurillia, hatteberg, wont improve from where they currently are over the course of the year. hard to be worse. I am puzzled by getting 2b, OF and 1B wrong. Is it because Krivsky is just biding his time and will work it out or is he just a more active version of the clueless DanO? At this point it is impossible to say.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 05:02 PM
Then why have them around? Having them around actually smacks of a GM thinking this team can compete and wants some guys around who have been there before.

If Krivsky believes this team cant compete there is no point to the vets when potentially better short term and obviously better long term replacements are everywhere

Better short term replacements? Better long term replacements?

Who? What in house option is really better than what we currently have? Dunn is probably better offensively at 1b than Hatt, yeah - but I'm not sold on his D there. Denorfia is still an unproven commodity, but he looks promising. I dont mind him in AAA since he really only had a 1/2 season there, if that, last year. Other than that, I really dont see any better inhouse options.

If I'm Krivsky, I let these guys play, hope to get their value up, so I can even have the remote possibility of sending these guys out in a trade somewhere, somehow. Perhaps he can sell someone on the idea that they can use Tony Womack as a relatively cheap stopgap for an A ball prospect.. Perhaps he can convince the Twins that Rich Aurillia is a better option for them than Juan Castro? I dont know.. but its way to early to cut these guys IMHO. You need to give Krivsky more than 4 months to reshape this team.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:03 PM
I tend to judge a pitcher's start by the kinds of contact made by the hitters--were they late getting around on the ball, weird swings, fouls, popups, etc? If the answer to the above questions is: yes, all those things, then I generally feel that the pitcher was having a good game. I could answer yes to all those questions today with Ponson. No one looked very comfortable in there against him.Ponson has always had some ability and throws in quality starts. What has defined him is his inconsistency and inability to do again and again excepting half a season.

Big Klu
04-15-2006, 05:03 PM
Updated Reds HR list (players in italics are active):

Reds All-Time Home Run Leaders
1. Johnny Bench - 389
2. Frank Robinson - 324
3. Tony Perez - 287
4. Ted Kluszewski - 251
5. George Foster - 244
6. Eric Davis - 203
7. Barry Larkin - 198
8. Vada Pinson - 186
9. Wally Post - 172
10. Adam Dunn - 164
11. Gus Bell - 160
12. Joe Morgan - 152
12. Pete Rose - 152
14. Lee May - 147
15. Ken Griffey, Jr. - 140
16. Dan Driessen - 133
17. Reggie Sanders - 125
18. Ernie Lombardi - 120
19. Sean Casey - 118
20. Frank McCormick - 110
21. Dave Parker - 107
22. Chris Sabo - 104
23. Dave Concepcion - 101
24. Gordy Coleman - 98
25. Paul O'Neill - 96

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:04 PM
Better short term replacements? Better long term replacements?

Who? What in house option is really better than what we currently have? Wagner, Shack, Denorfia to name three. That wasn't hard at all.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Sounds a lot like the slack DanO got after he got here when most were left scratching their heads by his moves. Deja vu.

Comparing Dan'o to Krivs is apples to oranges so far..

Krivs has proven to be a GM that can make a decision.. Dan'O was not.

Krivs seemingly has the ability to get value in a trade, ala Arroyo(which I know you disagree with given your posts).. Dan'O was not.

Krivs has proven to be very active.. Dan'O would bore you to sleep.

I'm not saying Krivs will prove to have any more ability in making a winner than Dan'O was.. but I will say at this point in time, I dont think you can make a fair assessment...

edabbs44
04-15-2006, 05:05 PM
Give me a break.. 11 games. Small sample sizes everywhere. Things can improve awfully quick. Even Rich Aurilla started off last year very slow(again this year) and turned it up over the course of the season.

say it with me.. 11 games.. 11 games..

1/2 way through april...

I dont know if I'm in the minority around here, but I don't expect us to contend this year. Realistically, I'm not sure Krivs does either. And I dont think he thinks Womack, Hatt, Hammond, etc are long term solutions.

Baseball is a game of patience. It is timeless. The only sport I can think of that truely is. lets take a deep breath fans, recognize we're still 3 games up over .500, and we have what.. 151 more games to go?

I don't think these are overreactions from the postings here. It is quite obvious where the problems are. First base, the pen and the 5th starter. A few times over the last 5-6 years, the Reds have gotten off to hot starts and every fan knew it was by using smoke and mirrors. The front office never did anything during those times to make the team better and they ended up dumping at the deadline. Right now, not many people can argue that this team might be able to contend with some help. But instead of making the team better, we keep trotting out Burns, White, Hatte, Hammond and the rest of the retreads. If we keep playing these guys, then the FO has basically given up on the season b/c there is NO WAY Cincy will be in the hunt with these guys on the roster. And if that is the case, then I'd rather have Denofria in LF and Dunn at 1B. Wagner and Shack in the pen. Make a deal for a starter and put him in the rotation for Williams.

And before I get blasted for giving up on the team, I have to say that I am more than pleased with the start to this season. But it is obvious that help is needed right now to keep them competitive. We can't even pitch half our BP when the game is on the line. And that will mean Coffey and Weathers will be hurting b/f June.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:06 PM
If I'm Krivsky, I let these guys play, hope to get their value up, so I can even have the remote possibility of sending these guys out in a trade somewhere, somehow. other GMs aren't likely to be fooled unless DanO has his next gig yet. These guys could have been signed/claimed by anybody after last year.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 05:06 PM
hard to be worse. I am puzzled by getting 2b, OF and 1B wrong. Is it because Krivsky is just biding his time and will work it out or is he just a more active version of the clueless DanO? At this point it is impossible to say.

Exactly what I'm trying to say.. at this point its not possible to compare DanO and Krivs. They seem polar opposites to me.. we need more time to judge..

Anyway guys, good game thread today.. bad game though.. haha.. I gotta run! Thanks for the interesting discourse.

ochre
04-15-2006, 05:07 PM
Comparing Dan'o to Krivs is apples to oranges so far..




So they are different colors, but still both fruits?

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 05:08 PM
Wagner, Shack, Denorfia to name three. That wasn't hard at all.

And my quick counter before I really go..

What kind of track record do these guys have again?

Oh yeah.. not much.. Wagner was overpromoted, he could probably use the time in AAA. Shack is still a relatively unproven commodity, as is Denorfia. What would you be saying if THESE guys were up and struggling ala Hatteberg, White, Burns, etc...?

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:09 PM
Krivs seemingly has the ability to get value in a trade, ala Arroyo(which I know you disagree with given your posts).Nope. To quote myself, "ambivalent". Seemed like a trade of long term potential for short term gain but with a staff short of starters and with an awful pen a potential innings eater was not a bad trade and how WMP develops will determine if it was a good one.

Matt700wlw
04-15-2006, 05:09 PM
They lost with their 5th starter going....oh well. Hopefully he will improve as the season goes on.

At this point, it's shown with the other 4 this team has a chance to win.

That is a major improvement over last season.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:10 PM
And my quick counter before I really go..

What kind of track record do these guys have again?not the track record of failure of the likes of the veterans. And guys don't suddenly get better at 35(actually they tend to hit the wall and fall off a cliff) or older where guys just coming up actually may have potential to improve. A stunning concept I'm sure.

cincyinco
04-15-2006, 05:16 PM
not the track record of failure of the likes of the veterans. And guys don't suddenly get better at 35 or older where guys just coming up actually may have potential to improve. A stunning concept I'm sure.

I wouldn't call the track record of Hammond a failure.. or Aurillia.. for their careers, they've had degrees of success. I wouldn't call the track records of Wagner a success either. I agree they may not get better, but some of these guys are better than their current numbers and struggles indicate. A stunning concept.. I'm sure. Meanwhile, the younger guys who dont have established track records.. good or bad.. can't get hurt by perfecting their craft at AAA.. in a season where we are really pretenders.. and not contenders.

Dunner44
04-15-2006, 05:18 PM
other GMs aren't likely to be fooled unless DanO has his next gig yet. These guys could have been signed/claimed by anybody after last year.

As long as a certian someone is still the Gm of the Nats, we will always have someone interested in trading with the Reds. Bowden is so stinking obsessed with Reds players...

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:19 PM
I wouldn't call the track record of Hammond a failure.. Hammond hit the wall the 2nd half of last season while pitching half the time in the most extreme pitchers park in baseball. At age 40 the train wreck was not hard to see coming for him and others like Womack, White, Hatteberg and Burns. Aurilia I do not deride(except as a cleanup hitter) because he has some usefulness as a role player.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:24 PM
After watching Williams again today, one of the most bizzare stories to come out of baseball in quite some time is that DanO sold him to Castellini as a #1. And were it not for his pursuing Milton to throw a big contract at, I wouldn't believe it, but you would really think that with the millions of dollars at stake, nepotism would get you nowhere in baseball. Yet there he was, someone with a rep as a talent evaluator, signing Eric Milton to a 25 M contract, and trading for Dave Williams as a #1. Its just stunning. You would think that stuff would end once you get out of the amateur ranks.

But then, if the buddy system weren't alive and well, a manager who really thinks that Rich Aurilia is a cleanup hitter in a regular season game wouldn't have a job.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:28 PM
After watching Williams again today, one of the most bizzare stories to come out of baseball in quite some time is that DanO sold him to Castellini as a #1. that is one story I don't believe. I don't hold DanO with any regard but no one has ever confused Williams with anything but a back of the rotation starter at best.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:30 PM
Hammond hit the wall the 2nd half of last season while pitching half the time in the most extreme pitchers park in baseball. At age 40 the train wreck was not hard to see coming for him and others like Womack, White, Hatteberg and Burns. Aurilia I do not deride(except as a cleanup hitter) because he has some usefulness as a role player.Hammond is throwing lobs up there. His age is not as much of an impact as it would be with a fastball/slider type guy. However, Hammond might not be the right fit for a bullpen that does not have some different looks coming out of it. He's just a little bit more of soft tossing than the rest of what we run out there. His best fit is a bully with some power arms in it. Then, you bring him in between a couple of fireballers and really mess with the hitters timing.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:33 PM
Hammond is throwing lobs up there. His age is not as much of an impact as it would be with a fastball/slider type guy. However, Hammond might not be the right fit for a bullpen that does not have some different looks coming out of it. He's just a little bit more of soft tossing than the rest of what we run out there. His best fit is a bully with some power arms in it. Then, you bring him in between a couple of fireballers and really mess with the hitters timing.It would seem to me the 2nd lefty in a pen should be a LOOGY if the other guy is not. Neither Mercker or Hammonds has ever been confused with a LOOGY as they have always been more effective against RH hitters.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:33 PM
that is one story I don't believe. I don't hold DanO with any regard but no one has ever confused Williams with anything but a back of the rotation starter at best.
Like I said, normally neither would I, but we're talking about the same guy who wooed Milton here and sold him as a #1 and called his first offseason signing of pinch hitter John Vanderwal "big." DanO just was more clueless than nepotism ever allowed to be revealed until he had the job where he was accountable for decisions.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:35 PM
It would seem to me the 2nd lefty in a pen should be a LOOGY if the other guy is not. Neither Mercker or Hammonds has ever been confused with a LOOGY as they have always been more effective against RH hitters.Not last year for Mercker. He was more effective against lefties, esp. with the K rate. BTW, I could care less about having a LOOGY. I don't care what side someone gets guys out from, plus it gives the lazy manager the option of bringing in the LOOGY even though his righty on the mound (like Ryan Wagner) is very effective against lefties.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:38 PM
Not last year for Mercker. He was more effective against lefties, esp. with the K rate.over his career he has been better against RH hitters, he does not have a quality breaking ball and the Reds don't use him as a LOOGY.

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:42 PM
over his career he has been better against RH hitters, he does not have a quality breaking ball and the Reds don't use him as a LOOGY.No, they don't generally use a LOOGY, one of the things on the good side of the ledger for Narron. Regardless, you said he has always been more effective against LH hitters. He went an entire season last year where he was very good against lefties. I'd say that's significant and makes him an option to come in and face a tough lefty, whether you leave him in to just face one guy or to face 2-3 hitters.

flyer85
04-15-2006, 05:45 PM
No, they don't generally use a LOOGY, becaue they don't have one. Honestly if you are not a serious playoff contender it is as not as big of a deal. I think LOOGYs are more important in a pennant race and the playoffs

traderumor
04-15-2006, 05:49 PM
becaue they don't have one. Honestly if you are not a serious playoff contender it is as not as big of a deal. I think LOOGYs are more important in a pennant race and the playoffsthey had one last year in Shackleford but rarely did they use him as such, so Narron doesn't generally use them when he does have one.

pedro
04-15-2006, 06:16 PM
It's the Redszone way...


http://ourworld.cs.com/WeezelX/rs/button.jpg

DropDocK
04-15-2006, 08:01 PM
Does LaRussa still want Williams?

Straight up for Ponson

M2
04-15-2006, 08:45 PM
Does LaRussa still want Williams?

Straight up for Ponson

Make mine Adam Wainwright.