PDA

View Full Version : Bottom of the 9th, man on 1st, Pujols up, Rolen on deck, what's the move, meat?



WMR
04-16-2006, 05:54 PM
Walk the guy. Rolen is good, but at least Tackleberry has a shot. Any strike to Pujols ends up in the stands.

KronoRed
04-16-2006, 05:56 PM
Considering what had happened in the game before that, I walk him and let someone else win it for them.

reds44
04-16-2006, 05:57 PM
pitch to him

TeamBoone
04-16-2006, 06:18 PM
It was a no brainer... and apparently JN didn't know that.

The guy had already hit two homeruns for Pete's sake. So in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on and up only one run, Narron decides to pitch to him. My God! It doesn't get much stupider than that!

Nothing like just handing this game to the Cards on a silver platter. I blame no one but Narron for this one. The offense worked their butts off in this game and IMHO, Narron blew it.

SteelSD
04-16-2006, 06:29 PM
You pitch to Pujols and don't pump him a meatball when ahead in the count. You have to. Folks, the guy hitting behind Pujols is named Scott Rolen and Scott Rolen can tie it up more easily with a runner on 2B than can Pujols with a runner on 1B. At minimum, if Rolen manages to advance Marquis to 3B with one Out, you've set yourself up for a suicide squeeze or the opportunity for a Sac Fly, Error, WP, or Passed Ball to tie it up. And all because you just chose to put the tying Run at 2B with none out.

What you don't do is pitch to Pujols earlier in the game with a base open. If the Reds had played those other PA smartly, this thread wouldn't exist.

Red in Chicago
04-16-2006, 06:37 PM
i would have pitched to him...the inexcusable part of the inning to me, was letting marquis get on in front of albert in the first place...i really don't understand the "need" for weathers to have been brought in to close it out in the ninth...he's not dennis eckersley...

Newport Red
04-16-2006, 06:37 PM
In hindsight, I walk him.

savafan
04-16-2006, 06:53 PM
i would have pitched to him...the inexcusable part of the inning to me, was letting marquis get on in front of albert in the first place...i really don't understand the "need" for weathers to have been brought in to close it out in the ninth...he's not dennis eckersley...

I agree. Can Coffey not go two innings? In my opinion, the role of the closer is way overrated in baseball these days. I'm still relatively young, but I can still remember the days of closers going two and three innings.

kyred14
04-16-2006, 07:00 PM
I was thinking about Pujols after the Reds took the lead in the 8th. I knew if the Reds didn't score again and Pujols got to the the plate, the Cards win if you pitched to him. They did and they did.

The way I see it:

Pujols: Sure HR
Rolen: Maybe something better

savafan
04-16-2006, 07:03 PM
The big problem is the way the Reds pitch him. Who wrote the Reds' scouting report on Albert Pujols, Helen Keller? Why pitch him up and out over the plate? That's suicide. Pound him low and inside pitch after pitch. If he walks, fine, but make him hit your pitch.

WMR
04-16-2006, 07:04 PM
The big problem is the way the Reds pitch him. Who wrote the Reds' scouting report on Albert Pujols, Helen Keller? Why pitch him up and out over the plate? That's suicide. Pound him low and inside pitch after pitch. If he walks, fine, but make him hit your pitch.

Stevie Wonder?

lollipopcurve
04-16-2006, 07:15 PM
You have to pitch to him. No way do you go first and second, no outs, with Rolen coming up.

Weathers had him 1-2, and all he had to do, with multiple chances, was execute with his best pitch, a slider, down and away.

2001MUgrad
04-16-2006, 07:19 PM
You can second guess the move now. But, its against every concept in baseball to intentionally put the tieing run in scoring position and the winning run on base(although there are cases for putting a guy on 1st if its open). But the other times he hit a HR is what bugs me about not walking him. He'll end up hitting .350 this season because he'll face the Reds 16 more times and so far I've not been impressed with some of the philosophies used this year.

Strikes Out Looking
04-16-2006, 07:28 PM
Brush him back--even if he isn't on top of the plate. Make him pay for the previous homers.

MWM
04-16-2006, 07:35 PM
No brainer, pitch to him. He still makes an out almost 60% of the time.

Big Klu
04-16-2006, 07:37 PM
Stevie Wonder?

"My cherie amour, lovely as a summer day."

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/8/81/Stevie_Wonder.jpg/200px-Stevie_Wonder.jpg

ThatsAStrike
04-16-2006, 07:59 PM
Yeah, you have to pitch to him. As stated above, no way do you walk him and put the tying run in scoring position. It's textbook, really.

GAC
04-16-2006, 08:09 PM
You have to pitch to him. No way do you go first and second, no outs, with Rolen coming up.

Weathers had him 1-2, and all he had to do, with multiple chances, was execute with his best pitch, a slider, down and away.

And that is what really pee'd me off.... that he had him 1-2 and got careless (or maybe cocky, thinking he could get one by him and K him).

But to allow the pitcher on base before that was an absolute sin.

Reds1
04-16-2006, 08:11 PM
It was a no brainer... and apparently JN didn't know that.

The guy had already hit two homeruns for Pete's sake. So in the bottom of the 9th with a runner on and up only one run, Narron decides to pitch to him. My God! It doesn't get much stupider than that!

Nothing like just handing this game to the Cards on a silver platter. I blame no one but Narron for this one. The offense worked their butts off in this game and IMHO, Narron blew it.

ah. what's the chances of a 3rd home run! We need a closer bad.

GAC
04-16-2006, 08:30 PM
Wow! 36 (70%) say walk him.

And some of you want to be my manager? :lol:

James B.
04-16-2006, 08:36 PM
There is not a manager in baseball that would walk Pujols in that situation. If the reds would have walked him the Cardinals could have won the game without even getting a hit. If that would have happened then there would really be people second guessing.

Newman4
04-16-2006, 08:38 PM
Needless to say, I think that Weather's "invincibility" has just wore off. Really it was never there. It's just too bad the fall back to Earth hurt more than just his ego. Let's face it, Weather never has or will be the stopper at the end of the game and this was bound to happen sooner or later. If you have a true closer I think this discussion isn't taking place. As mentioned, walking Pujols really doesn't help when you have Rolen behind him now with a runner in scoring position. Heck, Rolen already went deep too, do you suggest we load the bases and walk him too? I don't disagree with the strategy, but Coffey may have been a better option.

Patrick Bateman
04-16-2006, 09:27 PM
If 70% of people say walk him, it certainly isn't a good testament of the board's managing ability.

There isn't a manager in baseball that would have walked him.

So what if he had already hit 2 HR's. His chance of hitting the 3rd was no better than usual.

If you walk him, you are almost conceding the tie, as they can score with productive outs.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 09:33 PM
D. Eckstein ss 4 1 2 0 1 0 3 .300
A. Miles 2b 4 1 1 0 0 0 3 .300

I post this above the lockers of my pitchers the next day.

IowaRed
04-16-2006, 09:33 PM
The problem wasn't pitching to him, the problem was with location. I know they wanted to come inside to set up the slider low and away, but in my opinion you don't throw that pitch unless you are waaaaay inside. A fastball to Pujols ON the inside corner is not the pitch in that situation. I would have went slider low and away and then came back with slider low and away and then slider low and away. If that didn't get the job done then I go to work on Rolen

Ryan the Reds Fan
04-17-2006, 11:35 AM
I don't walk him, but I don't give him an inside fastball either, I don't give him anything in that's over the plate, he crushes those pitches as he did all 3 times he got them yesterday.

To not walk him in my book isn't even a decision it's the only choice, you can't put the tying run on second, just no baseball logic in that, but you go down and away where he can't hit one out of the park. Use your best pitch and then if you walk him so be it, but up 1-2 you don't come in with a fastball unless it knocks him on his butt.

Roy Tucker
04-17-2006, 11:39 AM
If you have a true closer I think this discussion isn't taking place.
Brad Lidge says hi :wave:

Jpup
04-17-2006, 11:52 AM
you don't let the best player in the NL beat you. Walk him. I wouldn't even think twice. You have a much, much better chance to get Rolen out than you do Pujols.

RedsFanInMD
04-17-2006, 11:55 AM
In Narron's/Weathers' defense, according to Weathers the call on that 1-2 pitch was to bust Pujols inside. However, Weathers missed -- and the resulting pitch caught too much of the plate.

Pujols is a great player, maybe the best hitter in the league. Weathers is a career journeyman, so it's clear to see which way the scales were tilted. When Weathers allowed Marquise to get on, I knew it was over.

While it is true that you should never let the opponent's best player beat you, I think the bigger problem yesterday was the pitching staff's inability to get the guys in the lower portion of the order out. Arroyo deserves the blame early on there. And, even though Coffey managed to escape the 8th unscathed, it was the fact that he faced 6 batters rather than 3 that led to Pujols even having an at bat in the 9th.

Patrick Bateman
04-17-2006, 11:59 AM
you don't let the best player in the NL beat you. Walk him. I wouldn't even think twice. You have a much, much better chance to get Rolen out than you do Pujols.

Rolen has a better chance in winning the game and tying the game than Pujols does. Rolen would only need a single to tie or a double/triple/ HR to win. Pujols needs a double/triple to tie and a HR to win. As good as Pujols is, the odds were to pitch to him. Weathers made a bad pitch and Pujols crushed it. Happens to even the best of them, not just guys like Weathers.

Jpup
04-17-2006, 12:01 PM
Rolen has a better chance in winning the game and tying the game than Pujols does. Rolen would only need a single to tie or a double/triple/ HR to win. Pujols needs a double/triple to tie and a HR to win. As good as Pujols is, the odds were to pitch to him. Weathers made a bad pitch and Pujols crushed it. Happens to even the best of them, not just guys like Weathers.

I would take my chances with Rolen.

Ryan the Reds Fan
04-17-2006, 02:09 PM
I would take my chances with Rolen.

I'm guessing that 100% of MLB managers would have done exactly what Narron did and pitch to Pujols.

KronoRed
04-17-2006, 03:10 PM
I'm guessing that 100% of MLB managers would have done exactly what Narron did and pitch to Pujols.
Not Showalter;)

Casey_21
04-17-2006, 03:15 PM
If we had a solid closer, then pitch to him... Unfortunatly, I dont believe the Reds have any pitcher (except maybe Harang) that can shut this man down. The Reds should have Walked, Walked, Walked... Hell, they should have walked him all day.