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View Full Version : Time for Coffey as closer



nc redsfan
04-16-2006, 07:37 PM
I was impressed with Coffey Friday and today!! To me he showed great poise under pressure, especially against a team like the Cardinals. Weathers is a good pitcher, but not as a closer, I would have prefered to see a duel of Pujols vs. Coffey myself. Many more endings like these and I don't think it will be long before we see him in there.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 07:43 PM
might happen but only because he is best among a choice of bad options. The Reds pen is a group of pitchers who on the best day are middle relievers.

RedLegSuperStar
04-16-2006, 07:54 PM
Well I think he could be giving that chance... soon I hope. This team isn't going to go anywhere if they stick with a suspect bullpen.

indyred
04-16-2006, 08:04 PM
Why not give him the role.........maybe he turns out like Turnbow of the Brewers.......

2001MUgrad
04-16-2006, 08:14 PM
I have been sort of impressed with Coffey this year, but I wasn't today. His butchering of the bottom of the Cards lineup in the 8th led to Pujols batting in the 9th.

If the Reds are going to contend or hang around .500 they do need a solid closer, but up until today Weathers had great numbers especiall OBA. Let's not forget that Coffey's first 3 batters all reached base. I think the closer position is one of the more over rated positions, but it has been proven that its tough to be a contender unless you have a solid one. The closer by committee thing just hasn't worked for anyone in the past really.

RedsManRick
04-16-2006, 08:21 PM
Coffey as closer doesn't really improve our chance to win very much -- but it certainly makes him much more expensive down the road when he goes in to arb....

Big Klu
04-16-2006, 08:28 PM
I have been sort of impressed with Coffey this year, but I wasn't today. His butchering of the bottom of the Cards lineup in the 8th led to Pujols batting in the 9th.

If the Reds are going to contend or hang around .500 they do need a solid closer, but up until today Weathers had great numbers especiall OBA. Let's not forget that Coffey's first 3 batters all reached base. I think the closer position is one of the more over rated positions, but it has been proven that its tough to be a contender unless you have a solid one. The closer by committee thing just hasn't worked for anyone in the past really.

1975 Cincinnati Reds

Rawly Eastwick: 58 games, 90 IP, 5-3 record, 2.60 ERA, 22 saves, 61 Ks, 25 BBs
Will McEnaney: 70 games, 91 IP, 5-2 record, 2.47 ERA, 15 saves, 48 Ks, 23 BBs
Clay Carroll: 56 games, 96.1 IP, 7-5 record, 2.62 ERA, 7 saves, 44 Ks, 32 BBs
Pedro Borbon: 67 games, 125 IP, 9-5 record, 2.95 ERA, 5 saves, 29 Ks, 21 BBs

captainmorgan07
04-16-2006, 08:36 PM
it's time jerry needs to hvae them in set roles

edabbs44
04-16-2006, 08:37 PM
It's time for Castellini to hire Monty Hall and make a deal for some pen help.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 08:52 PM
It's time for Castellini to hire Monty Hall and make a deal for some pen help.that would likely be a bad idea

2001MUgrad
04-16-2006, 09:00 PM
1975 Cincinnati Reds

Rawly Eastwick: 58 games, 90 IP, 5-3 record, 2.60 ERA, 22 saves, 61 Ks, 25 BBs
Will McEnaney: 70 games, 91 IP, 5-2 record, 2.47 ERA, 15 saves, 48 Ks, 23 BBs
Clay Carroll: 56 games, 96.1 IP, 7-5 record, 2.62 ERA, 7 saves, 44 Ks, 32 BBs
Pedro Borbon: 67 games, 125 IP, 9-5 record, 2.95 ERA, 5 saves, 29 Ks, 21 BBs

I should have rephrased that. In my lifetime. I'm 27, so for virtually my whole life the closer has been a defined role. I'd guess not many teams have been successful since that haven't had a a defined good closer.

reds44
04-16-2006, 09:04 PM
I honestly don't think Weathers is the problem.

Look what Pujols did to Lidge last year, he is going to do that to people. We need to surround Coffey, Weathers, and maybe even Kent with some better arms.

Mutaman
04-16-2006, 09:08 PM
You could see this coming a mile away. The time to come up with a respectable closer was in January, not April. The failure of this organization to resolve this problem over the winter was probably due to its typical cheapness and we will pay the price for the rest of the season.

Reds1
04-16-2006, 09:12 PM
Why not give him the role.........maybe he turns out like Turnbow of the Brewers.......

LOL. He's not a turnboy

James B.
04-16-2006, 09:26 PM
I just don't think that there is a pitcher on the reds staff that is ready to be a closer. Coffey is as close as your going to get but I don't think he is ready. I think that if the reds had a legitimate closer this could be a good pen, with Weathers,Merker, and Coffey as setup men.

edabbs44
04-16-2006, 09:28 PM
I honestly don't think Weathers is the problem.

Look what Pujols did to Lidge last year, he is going to do that to people. We need to surround Coffey, Weathers, and maybe even Kent with some better arms.


I agree, but for a diff reason. I think that closers are valuable but overpriced. So for it to be worth getting a legitimate, proven closer, you have to be a contender. There is no reason for a team who hopes to reach .500 to sign or trade for Wagner, Lidge, etc etc. That would just be a wasted $8 million and that money would be better spent for a team to reach the point where they need a closer like that by getting another SP or bat.

Getting to my point, right now the Reds need pen help and Weathers isn't the problem at this point. Sure he's not a legit closer, but how many sure fire ones are there? If we want to get a good closer, we are probably going to have to draft one (i.e., Coffey or Wagner). If the front office doesn't make multiple moves to improve the BP and 5th starter, this team is not going to contend and we won't have a need for a legit closer. Plain and simple.

TOBTTReds
04-16-2006, 09:41 PM
The one thing I dont like is that if I had this same situation, I would have had anybody else pitch the 8th, bc if 2-3-4 comes up anytime in that lineup at the end, I want Coffey in there, period. He should be saved for the heart, not 7,8, 9 or whatever it was. We don't need set roles, bc anyway, I think stormy is the closer and coffey is the setup. But in this scenario I would have taken stormy in the 8th, then coffey in 9th.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:07 PM
I honestly don't think Weathers is the problem.
the problem is an entire relief core that gives up too many hits and HRs and doesn't miss nearly enough bats.

GAC
04-16-2006, 10:09 PM
Our best shot at a set closer is Ryan Wagner. But he's down on the farm perfecting his sinker. ;)

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:13 PM
Our best shot at a set closer is Ryan Wagner. and the reason is ???

When right, he has an out pitch that is tough to hit. We saw it when he first came up. If he can recapture that plus-plus slider he would be the answer because he would miss a lot of bats.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:13 PM
Our best shot at a set closer is Ryan Wagner. But he's down on the farm perfecting his sinker. ;)
What about Shack?

He hasn't given up a run yet in AAA.

paintmered
04-16-2006, 10:16 PM
and the reason is ???

When right, he has an out pitch that is tough to hit. We saw it when he first came up. If he can recapture that plus-plus slider he would be the answer because he would miss a lot of bats.

It was an out pitch until hitters began to realize they can simply lay off of it and wait for his fastball. Wagner is a one-trick pony and until he can find something to compliment that slider, he will not be the answer to our closer question.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:21 PM
It was an out pitch until hitters began to realize they can simply lay off of it and wait for his fastball. Wagner is a one-trick pony and until he can find something to compliment that slider, he will not be the answer to our closer question.His slider was a two plane pitch when he first came up. He seemed to lose some of that. He has an excellent sinking fastball as well. That first summer what made him successful was the 2 pitches with decent command, he has lost the command since then. Why hitters waited was knowing that he couldn't pitch to the corners with consistency they laid off and waited for the over the plate mistake. The whole point of a good slider is a certain amount of deception.

George Foster
04-17-2006, 12:18 AM
I have been sort of impressed with Coffey this year, but I wasn't today. His butchering of the bottom of the Cards lineup in the 8th led to Pujols batting in the 9th.

If the Reds are going to contend or hang around .500 they do need a solid closer, but up until today Weathers had great numbers especiall OBA. Let's not forget that Coffey's first 3 batters all reached base. I think the closer position is one of the more over rated positions, but it has been proven that its tough to be a contender unless you have a solid one. The closer by committee thing just hasn't worked for anyone in the past really.

I totally disagree with your first paragraph. The first hit was a "bang-bang" play at first, I thought he was out. The second hit happened after about 15 foul balls, then their was an intentional walk to load the bases. That is not butchering. Coffey intentionally waik the bases loaded with one out. so no your wrong again, the first three batters did not reach base as you stated in the second paragraph. Get your facts straight before you enter this forum

George Foster
04-17-2006, 12:24 AM
and the reason is ???

When right, he has an out pitch that is tough to hit. We saw it when he first came up. If he can recapture that plus-plus slider he would be the answer because he would miss a lot of bats.

Coffey had a pretty good out pitch on Friday night. With the bases loaded today and one out he got the job done again.

Wagner has been shelled a lot more than he's gotten people out. Remember, if "if's and but's" were candy and nuts we'd all have a marry Christmas.

Chip R
04-17-2006, 01:06 AM
It was an out pitch until hitters began to realize they can simply lay off of it and wait for his fastball. Wagner is a one-trick pony and until he can find something to compliment that slider, he will not be the answer to our closer question.

I read in the Enquirer today that Wagner was throwing a change down in LOU this year. Say, who is the pitching coach im LOU? Oh, I remember, it is none other than the master of the change himself, Mario Soto. Could it be that instead of punishing Wagner by sending him to AAA they are actually trying to improve him so he can eventually contribute for the Reds? Wagner is no better than White if hitters are laying of the slider and hitting the fastball. He is cheaper but you have to pay White even if you release him.

Bobcat J
04-17-2006, 08:30 AM
Coffey intentionally waik the bases loaded with one out. so no your wrong again, the first three batters did not reach base as you stated in the second paragraph. Get your facts straight before you enter this forum

Before you go off half cocked, maybe you should get your facts straight.

Bottom of the 8th:

Encarnacion reached on infield single. Was later caught stealing
Luna Singled
Molina Doubled
Schumaker intentionally walked.

Technically the first four batters of the inning reached base.

kbrake
04-17-2006, 10:25 AM
Todd Coffey should not come even close to being the closer until July 31. Weathers is a guy that can pick up 15 or so saves around the deadline and be dealt. There is no reason to kill his value and move him to a set up role. I like Coffey but he is going to be around for awhile so dont rush it. I have said it before this team is not going anywhere this season, however we can rebuild much quicker by getting the max value out of guys like Weathers and Mercker at the deadline.

flyer85
04-17-2006, 10:28 AM
Todd Coffey should not come even close to being the closer until July 31. Weathers is a guy that can pick up 15 or so saves around the deadline and be dealt. There is no reason to kill his value and move him to a set up role. I like Coffey but he is going to be around for awhile so dont rush it. I have said it before this team is not going anywhere this season, however we can rebuild much quicker by getting the max value out of guys like Weathers and Mercker at the deadline.Saves are not going to increase Weathers value, good pitching will. Teams that would trade for Weathers are a)not likely in need of a closer(most contenders have a solid closer or a better option than Weathers) b)if they are in need of a closer Weathers is going to be down the list no matter how many he might have with the Reds.

kbrake
04-17-2006, 10:37 AM
I know teams that want Weathers will already have a closer, but you really dont think if he has 15 saves it will make him look that much better then if he has no saves and the same ERA. Saves are sexy.

Jpup
04-17-2006, 10:46 AM
...the rest of the story is that Pujols should have had the bat taken out of his hands in that situation.

kbrake
04-17-2006, 10:52 AM
Completely agree with you Jpup. That whole situation remind anyone of last year at Wrigley when Miley opted to pitch to DLee with first base open and Burnitz on deck. I know the situation was different in that Miley should have been fired on the spot, because that was the easiest baseball move ever. I think it is the same in the idea that I knew both would go yard and didnt want to see either one get a pitch to hit.

GAC
04-17-2006, 09:31 PM
I read in the Enquirer today that Wagner was throwing a change down in LOU this year. Say, who is the pitching coach im LOU? Oh, I remember, it is none other than the master of the change himself, Mario Soto. Could it be that instead of punishing Wagner by sending him to AAA they are actually trying to improve him so he can eventually contribute for the Reds? Wagner is no better than White if hitters are laying of the slider and hitting the fastball. He is cheaper but you have to pay White even if you release him.

And that is why Wags should be down there IMO. He 'll be back.... and a better pitcher IMO.

RedFanAlways1966
04-29-2006, 12:41 PM
What is this: 3.38, 2.46, 1.80, 1.59, 1.35, 1.17, 0.96, 0.90, 0.75, 0.64??

It is Todd Coffey's post-appearance ERA starting with the Apr. 7 game in which he allowed his only earned run through 23 REDS games.

* 11.1 consecutive innings w/out an earned run.
* Has not allowed a HR in 14 innings pitched this year (58 batters).

Any other setup-types or closers in the NL with comparable numbers at this point? If they had an All-April team for the NL (or for MLB!), would Todd Coffey deserve to be on that team (hoping all stays the same for the last 2 Apr. games)?

Gotta give it up Todd thus far. He has been a force to this point. Closer? I don't know. The REDS are in 1st as things have been. If it works, don't mess with it is how I usually feel. The BP as a whole has been key in the last week. 4ER in the last 7 games over 17.2 innings pitched.

Patrick Bateman
04-29-2006, 12:59 PM
I'd prefer to use him in the key times, not just as closer. Let him face the tough parts of the line-up whether it's in the 7th, 8th or pth innings and give Weathers/Merker the easier guys. I think that would be our best chance of winning games.

HalMorrisRules
04-29-2006, 01:07 PM
He does seem to do well when he is brought in when there are runners are on. He might be more valuable doing that. If a Rick White or Hammonds gives up the lead in the 7th or 8th it wont matter if Coffey is the closer.

Hubba
04-29-2006, 01:21 PM
I totally disagree with your first paragraph. The first hit was a "bang-bang" play at first, I thought he was out. The second hit happened after about 15 foul balls, then their was an intentional walk to load the bases. That is not butchering. Coffey intentionally waik the bases loaded with one out. so no your wrong again, the first three batters did not reach base as you stated in the second paragraph. Get your facts straight before you enter this forumHey who died and made you boss of this forum?

Matt700wlw
05-11-2006, 10:55 PM
I brought this back.

2001MUgrad
05-11-2006, 11:20 PM
They might as well begin a fire sale if they aren't going to get a BP. If the starters don't pitch 9 innings its a toss up. Coffey seems okay, but compared to Weathers bringing Rob Dibble out of retirments doesn't sound crazy. Weathers sucks and the reds have won this year despite him. Its called a closer for a reason. Weathers cannot close the door, he has no "out" pitch. He would fit in nicely with Dano's pitch to contact philiosophy though. Maybe this is where the wheels come off the for the Reds. 2 blown saves in back to back games. If they don't revamp the BP and I mean now they are in big trouble.

savafan
05-11-2006, 11:30 PM
Weathers has now blown 4 out of 12 save opportunities. That's 66.6%. We're talking Danny Graves at the end of the line territory. Of course, I think closers are overrated. I don't see why managers feel they have to go to the closer if they have a 3 run or less lead in the ninth inning.

savafan
05-11-2006, 11:32 PM
As an addendum, looking at tonight's game, after Weathers blew the save in the ninth and Coffey pitched the tenth...I had a bad feeling when White came in to pitch the 11th. White has been too inconsistent and ineffective, I don't understand why you go to him with the game on the line.

kheidg-
05-11-2006, 11:53 PM
As an addendum, looking at tonight's game, after Weathers blew the save in the ninth and Coffey pitched the tenth...I had a bad feeling when White came in to pitch the 11th. White has been too inconsistent and ineffective, I don't understand why you go to him with the game on the line.

Especially versus a left handed batter (Nick Johnson) when you have Mercker, Hammond, and Shackelford all available.