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flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:33 PM
Does anyone else think that if Jr actually comes back next week that EE stands a good chance of being sent out when Larue comes back?

I still think the Reds are itching to send him back to AAA and turn 3B over to Aurilia.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:34 PM
No.

2nd on the team in doubles, 3rd in OBP among players who have played at least 7 games, 6th in RBIs, 5th in total bases.

He is doing fine for a 23 year old in his 1st full season.

KronoRed
04-16-2006, 10:36 PM
Only if Hatteberg got real hot, they can't justify it otherwise.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:37 PM
If they do send EE down, it will be for a very, very short period--until a trade is made. But the point is moot: I suspect it will be Phillips or Belisle, even though Phillips is out of options (I think).

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:37 PM
Only if Hatteberg got real hot, they can't justify it otherwise.They've already made a lot of moves that don't have any justification.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:38 PM
If they do send EE down, it will be for a very, very short period--until a trade is made. But the point is moot: I suspect it will be Phillips or Belisle, even though Phillips is out of options (I think).
He isn't going anywhere.

RA needs to be the everyday 1st baseman, however.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:38 PM
But the point is moot: I suspect it will be Phillips or Belisle, even though Phillips is out of options (I think).that would be really stupid(having traded for him) because Phillips would not make it through waivers.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:39 PM
that would be really stupid(having traded for him) because Phillips would not make it through waivers.


Phillips sucks--he's almost totally worthless. He can't vanish soon enough.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:39 PM
He isn't going anywhere.

RA needs to be the everyday 1st baseman, however.
Ack, a couple of good games and the man's a stud. I for one am still turned off by a .293 OBP

KronoRed
04-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Ack, a couple of good games and the man's a stud. I for one am still turned off by a .293 OBP
Better then the Hat

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Ack, a couple of good games and the man's a stud. I for one am still turned off by a .293 OBP
Yes, but don't you think he is better then Hatteberg?

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:40 PM
Phillips sucks--he's almost totally worthless. He can't vanish soon enough.that may be true but then why trade for the guy just to give him away. In addition couldn't the same be said for hatteberg and Womack

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:41 PM
Phillips sucks--he's almost totally worthless. He can't vanish soon enough.
I wouldn't go that far, but his "studly" defense has been a dissapointment.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:41 PM
Yes, but don't you think he is better then Hatteberg?That isn't saying much and certainly shouldn't be a qualification for being the everyday 1B.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:42 PM
that may be true but then why trade for the guy just to give him away. In addition couldn't the same be said for hatteberg and Womack

Hatteberg could work out as a pinch hitter. Womack sucks, but he costs money, so....

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:43 PM
Hatteberg could work out as a pinch hitter. Womack sucks, but he costs money, so....and Phillips cost both money and a player

RedsMan3203
04-16-2006, 10:44 PM
In our Best Lineup we can put on the field (with the guys we have on the 25)

RA is at 1st, Freel is at 2nd and EE is at 3rd.

I'd much rather see RA at 1st then Scott H.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:44 PM
That isn't saying much and certainly shouldn't be a qualification for being the everyday 1B.
When Hatteberg is your other 1st baseman it is.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:44 PM
and Phillips cost both money and a player

Minimum and some pathetic chaff from the minors. Whatever. It was a low-risk gamble that clearly hasn't paid off. Phillips makes me pine for Donnie Sadler.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:45 PM
Minimum and some pathetic chaff from the minors. Whatever. It was a low-risk gamble that clearly hasn't paid off. Phillips makes me pine for Donnie Sadler.
:eek:

It has been what a week? Give the man time.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:46 PM
Minimum and some pathetic chaff from the minors. Whatever. It was a low-risk gamble that clearly hasn't paid off. Phillips makes me pine for Donnie Sadler.so what can be learned in aorund ~10ABs and two games in the field that they didn't already know. And having experienced DanO and Jimbo we know how hesitant GMs are to admit a clear mistake.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:47 PM
:eek:

It has been what a week? Give the man time.

His entire MLB career. He's carrrying the same awful hitting habits that got him bupkis lo these years. Nothing's changed. He's an ort (I love the crossword).

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:49 PM
so what can be learned in aorund ~10ABs and two games in the field that they didn't already know. And having experienced DanO and Jimbo we know how hesitant GMs are to admit a clear mistake.

I don't know what they were thinking? Change of scenery? I don't know. But I know he needs to go away.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:49 PM
His entire MLB career. He's carrrying the same awful hitting habits that got him bupkis lo these years. Nothing's changed. He's an ort (I love the crossword).
You don't drop bad habits in a week. It doesn't happen on this planet sorry.

flyer85
04-16-2006, 10:50 PM
His entire MLB career. He's carrrying the same awful hitting habits that got him bupkis lo these years. Nothing's changed. He's an ort (I love the crossword).they already knew that. Do you really think they thought he changed in two weeks of inactivity?

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:51 PM
You don't drop bad habits in a week. It doesn't happen on this planet sorry.

You'd think he'd want to impress his new employees by changing his habits just a tad, even if he was uncomfortable with it. But he looks the same as ever. Lost. It's not much worth arguing over honestly. When Larue returns, he needs to go.

reds44
04-16-2006, 10:52 PM
You'd think he'd want to impress his new employees by changing his habits just a tad, even if he was uncomfortable with it. But he looks the same as ever. Lost. It's not much worth arguing over honestly. When Larue returns, he needs to go.
he has been hitting the ball hard, but right at people.


No he doesn't. Womack should be gone way before BP is.

Heath
04-16-2006, 10:54 PM
There are ways that Brandon Phillips is Tony Womack, 12 years younger.

Than I use the WMP word-potential.

Sometimes people get it the second time around.

Falls City Beer
04-16-2006, 10:54 PM
he has been hitting the ball hard, but right at people.


No he doesn't. Womack should be gone way before BP is.


Yeah, he should be gone too. But I was arguing who I think it will be among the players who could be sent out.

They'd have to release Womack, which is different.

Betterread
04-16-2006, 11:10 PM
You'd think he'd want to impress his new employees by changing his habits just a tad, even if he was uncomfortable with it. But he looks the same as ever. Lost. It's not much worth arguing over honestly. When Larue returns, he needs to go.

When LaRue returns, you would carry 3 catchers and 4 OFers and Aurelia/Encarnacion as the defensive backup for Lopez? I think when Larue comes back, Ross and McCracken get optioned to AAA and Denorfia comes back. Whether or not Phillips reaches the Olympian offensive heights of Juan Castro is not the factor that pushes the Reds out of mediocrity.
Brandon Phillips=Gookie= Pokey
We need to draft/FA sign some middle infield talent for our organization. It's a priority.

KronoRed
04-16-2006, 11:12 PM
Deno won't be back with McCracken healthy, they love them some vets.

I think Ross goes, they won't keep 3 catchers.

2001MUgrad
04-16-2006, 11:43 PM
I'm still waiting on the other shoe to drop. I don't understand the Phillips move alone at all. It doesn't make a lot of sense to me that we'd carry 3 catchers when Larue comes back unless you get rid of Hatteberg.

indyred
04-17-2006, 12:09 AM
Is it clear yet, what the Reds gave up for Phillips...........

flyer85
04-17-2006, 12:10 AM
I think when Larue comes back, Ross and McCracken get optionedRoss is out of options

KronoRed
04-17-2006, 12:20 AM
Ross is out of options
Aww crap.

Keeping 3 catchers along with a guy who can only play 1st (Hatteberg) would be pure foolishness.

Casey_21
04-17-2006, 05:28 PM
He isn't going anywhere.

RA needs to be the everyday 1st baseman, however.

True that. The line-up would look loads better without Hatte in it. Plus, word on the street is, Rich is 'clutch'.. :thumbup:

TRF
04-17-2006, 05:36 PM
To me the best lineup is Dunn at 1B, Bergolla at 2B Freel in LF or CF. Release Womack and try and pass Phillips through Waivers. Aurilia is the supersub, the Hat becomes man number 25. Ross gets the Philips treatment too.

Bergolla is on a hot streak, and can field the position better than Freel or Aurilia.

EE stays at third. forever.

Just my 2 cents.

redsfan30
04-17-2006, 05:43 PM
Without reading any other replies, the answer to the original question is "No."

Maybe show just a tiency-wiency bit of confidence in Krivsky??? Maybe?
:dunno:

I think you're stuck in the Dan O'Brien way of thinking....

joshnky
04-17-2006, 07:08 PM
To me the best lineup is Dunn at 1B, Bergolla at 2B Freel in LF or CF. Release Womack and try and pass Phillips through Waivers. Aurilia is the supersub, the Hat becomes man number 25. Ross gets the Philips treatment too.

Bergolla is on a hot streak, and can field the position better than Freel or Aurilia.

EE stays at third. forever.

Just my 2 cents.
Bergolla certainly isn't any better than Phillips right now and they both are young with potential. There is no way we'll get rid of Phillips after two weeks. It certainly seems that they're holding off on Larue as long as possible seeing how this was supposed to be a very minor injury. They might be waiting for a trade or perhaps the situation will take care of itself with Griffey going to the DL. If not I would be shocked if we didn't get get rid of a pitcher and go to a staff of 11.

One other note: Bergolla just came off the DL and only has 15 ABs. Hardly enough to constitute a hot streak or a call up.

reds44
04-17-2006, 07:10 PM
Bergolla certainly isn't any better than Phillips right now and they both are young with potential. There is no way we'll get rid of Phillips after two weeks. It certainly seems that they're holding off on Larue as long as possible seeing how this was supposed to be a very minor injury. They might be waiting for a trade or perhaps the situation will take care of itself with Griffey going to the DL. If not I would be shocked if we didn't get get rid of a pitcher and go to a staff of 11.
Yeah Begolla is very similar to BP.

MartyFan
04-17-2006, 07:28 PM
:eek:

It has been what a week? Give the man time.

I agree...he shows signs of his rookie campaign in Cleveland and he will be a very potent addition to this lineup.

reds44
04-17-2006, 07:37 PM
I agree...he shows signs of his rookie campaign in Cleveland and he will be a very potent addition to this lineup.
He has had some terrible luck since coming here. He is hitting it hard, but always right at someone.

TOBTTReds
04-17-2006, 09:23 PM
So far he is looking good today. Hard double to left, used his speed to score on Freel double. Then a great scoop on a bad throw by JV on a stolen base attempt and applied the tag for the out.

joshnky
04-17-2006, 10:07 PM
Phillips sucks--he's almost totally worthless. He can't vanish soon enough.
Good timing. I know its just the Marlins but "sucks" wouldn't be a good word to use to describe him after today.

westofyou
04-18-2006, 04:03 PM
Minimum and some pathetic chaff from the minors. Whatever. It was a low-risk gamble that clearly hasn't paid off. Phillips makes me pine for Donnie Sadler.
What a load, the guy is a better fielder and he has 20 times more power.

Plus he didn't nail Troy O'Leary's wife.

Falls City Beer
04-18-2006, 04:28 PM
Whatever. When Phillips is left like wreckage on the side of the road by the end of the season, I promise I won't say I told ya so.

Like I said, it's low risk, so I don't have a problem with it, but expect Castro-like offense from the guy.

pedro
04-18-2006, 04:34 PM
Phillips kicks Bergolla's rump as a player. It isn't even close.

Not that that says much.

As for the original topic of this thread. Ridiculous IMO.

TRF
04-18-2006, 04:35 PM
I'm ok with either Phillips or Bergolla at 2B, especially if Bergolla has rememberd how to take a walk. Both are improvements defensively at 2B, any offense is a plus.

Donnie Sadler got busy with Mrs. O'Leary?

Insert cow reference here.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-18-2006, 04:52 PM
I'll take Phillips over Bergolla and Olmedo any day. Way higher ceiling. FCB, I think you better get used to BP, because he's not going anywhere for a long time. In fact, I think the Tribe will someday regret the decision to keep Ramon Vazquez on their roster instead of Phillips.

2007 Infield (with back-ups)

1b = Dunn (Votto)
2b = Lopez (Phillips, Freel)
SS = Phillips (Lopez, Freel)
3b = EE (Freel)
C = Ross/Valentin

Trade Larue, Aurillia, and dump Womack. Hatteberg will not be re-signed. If he is, it's for peanuts and strictly as a back-up to Dunn. Denorfia to CF (platooning) and a healthy Griffey to LF, with Kearns in RF.

Can Votto play LF better than Dunn? The worst OF of the two gets 1b. The other gets LF if Griffey is injured. Votto gets some consistent AB's in Louisville until someone goes down (see: Denorfia in 2006). Freel (super-sub) gets 450 AB's playing everywhere other than C and 1B.

MartyFan
04-18-2006, 04:58 PM
What a load, the guy is a better fielder and he has 20 times more power.

Plus he didn't nail Troy O'Leary's wife.

WOY...we're all gathered here...go ahead, tell us a story.

(cue the bad jazz music..as the scene opens we see a pizza delivery guy approaching the sorority house...)

Aronchis
04-18-2006, 04:58 PM
I'll take Phillips over Bergolla and Olmedo any day. Way higher ceiling. FCB, I think you better get used to BP, because he's not going anywhere for a long time. In fact, I think the Tribe will someday regret the decision to keep Ramon Vazquez on their roster instead of Phillips.

2007 Infield (with back-ups)

1b = Dunn (Votto)
2b = Lopez (Phillips, Freel)
SS = Phillips (Lopez, Freel)
3b = EE (Freel)
C = Ross/Valentin

Trade Larue, Aurillia, and dump Womack. Hatteberg will not be re-signed. If he is, it's for peanuts and strictly as a back-up to Dunn. Denorfia to CF (platooning) and a healthy Griffey to LF, with Kearns in RF.

Can Votto play LF better than Dunn? The worst OF of the two gets 1b. The other gets LF if Griffey is injured. Votto gets some consistent AB's in Louisville until someone goes down (see: Denorfia in 2006). Freel (super-sub) gets 450 AB's playing everywhere other than C and 1B.

Dunn is the LF. Votto is a 1st baseman who came from catcher. Deal with that fact. Dunn to 1st simply isn't happening.

westofyou
04-18-2006, 05:01 PM
WOY...we're all gathered here...go ahead, tell us a story.

(cue the bad jazz music..as the scene opens we see a pizza delivery guy approaching the sorority house...)
Ok... but it's second hand from a guy in the news business in New England, plain and simple.

He Tallied and she Hoed and the Reds Sox had to trade him before he was broken in half.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-18-2006, 05:08 PM
Dunn is the LF. Votto is a 1st baseman who came from catcher. Deal with that fact. Dunn to 1st simply isn't happening.

Okey-dokey. Dunn stays in LF and Votto at 1b. Sounds fine to me.

Thanks for answering my question.

pedro
04-18-2006, 05:20 PM
I have a hard time believing Votto will actually be a starter in the majors.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-18-2006, 06:15 PM
I have a hard time believing Votto will actually be a starter in the majors.


Why not?

Joey Votto is putting up very good numbers so far in AA. It's early, but this could be his year he breaks out. With Florida being in town, I think it's an appropriate to time to compare Votto to their top prospect, Jeremy Hermida. They both were drafted high out of high school in 2002. Hermida in the 1st round, Votto in the 2nd. Hermida is 6-4, 200 and Votto is 6-2, 222. They are both powerful LH hitters and are within 4 months of each other in age.

Now, why couldn't Votto be on the same upward trend as Hermida was in 2005? He can, just a year behind. Let's blame it on being a Canadian. Blame Canada.

Let's take a look....



Prior to Hermida's breakout 2005 campaign, he put up the following numbers in 2003 and 2004 between low A and high A at 19 and 20 years of age:

808 AB's
16 HR
99 RBI
.790 OPS*
173 K's
122 BB's

Now, taking the angle that Votto is a year behind Hermida (for whatever reason). These are his numbers in 2004 and 2005 between low A and high A (same levels) at 20 and 21 years of age:

939 AB's
36 HR's
175 RBI
.840 OPS*
253 K's
142 BB's

Hermida's breakout season (at age 21) in AA (Southern League - same league Votto is currently in) last year consisted of:

386 AB's
18 HR's
63 RBI
.968 OPS
89 K's
111 BB's

Now, coming into this season he is regarded as the top Florida prospect, in an organization deep in talent.



Votto currently is putting up the following numbers in AA (at age 22):

50 AB's
4 HR's
10 RBI
1.037 OPS
8 K's
3 BB's


I know, it's early and we have a small sample size here, but if Votto keeps tearing it up, I think the comparison is fair. In fact, I see no reason why Votto couldn't rise to the ranks of a Hermida and get some quality AB's with the big club late in 2006 and be a big time major league prospect for 2007.


*OPS numbers are not exact, but within .005 (give or take 5 points).

pedro
04-18-2006, 06:18 PM
I'm pleased that Votto is off to a good start this year.

Last years numbers weren't so hot so I'm just sceptical. I really hope he turns out.

Either way, I don't see him as option in 2007.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-18-2006, 06:22 PM
I understand, but as bad as his numbers were last year (in a pitching league), they wren't much worse than Hermida's the year befor he busted out in AA.

I think Votto is one of the keys to turning around the perception of this weak farm system. He and Rosales and, of course, Bruce give us a few bats to drool over down the road.

TOBTTReds
04-21-2006, 04:09 AM
About Brandon Phillips:


You'd think he'd want to impress his new employees by changing his habits just a tad, even if he was uncomfortable with it. But he looks the same as ever. Lost. It's not much worth arguing over honestly. When Larue returns, he needs to go.

You made a lot of bold comments.

StRedlegs900
04-21-2006, 07:05 AM
Now looking back at this, it's funny how people make judgements on people without hardly having seen them play. Phillips now has 13 RBI in 5 games. I'd say that's pretty decent. That's why you give people chances I guess! :eek:

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 03:57 PM
Keeping 3 catchers along with a guy who can only play 1st (Hatteberg) would be pure foolishness.
I stand by this :angry: