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View Full Version : Jerry Narron in yesterdays game



WVPacman
04-17-2006, 07:00 PM
I don't want to point the finger at anybody and say they lost the game for the Reds,BUT anybody in their right mind would not pitch to Puhols or Rolan.Im not just talking about the 9th inning,im talking about the 9th inning and Puhols first two hr at bats.Why on earth would you pitch to those two guys when your lead is only by one or two runs. I would not give either one a chance to beat me exspecially with Edmonds out of the lineup.IMO Narron could atleast walked Puhols 2-3 times and Rolan atleast twice to get to an eaiser out.Again I don't want to blame nobody but I really think Narron could have managed the game a little smarter yesterday.

Patrick Bateman
04-17-2006, 07:12 PM
So you think it would have been better to walk the bases loaded with none out? That's very silly IMO.

It's very easy to say in hindsight we should have been walking Pujols, but the odds suggest that pitching to him is the right move in most situations. In the 9th inning, walking him intentionally to get to rolen would have been a poor move. It would increase the Cards chances of both tying the game and winning the game.

Narron made the right call it just didn't work. When your pitchers throw bad pitches you will give up runs and that is what happened to Weathers.

And what advantage does it serve to walk Rolen every time up other that in hindsight a walk would have been better? In an average at-bat Rolen does not get a walk. He averages something worse.

WVPacman
04-17-2006, 07:18 PM
No you are right I would have pitched to Rolan in the ninth but I sure would have walked Pujols.As far as the other Rolan at bats Yes I would have walked him b/c I knew Edmonds was'nt in the lineup to hurt me.I can't remember the guy who batted behind Rolan but he sure is no Edmonds so I would have took my chances with that guy.

redsfan30
04-17-2006, 07:22 PM
You can't walk Pujols and put the tying and go-ahead runs on base to get to Scott Rolen. The difference between Pujols and Rolen isn't much in that situation.

The key to the whole thing was the leadoff batter. Once Weathers gave up the single to the leadoff hitter in the 9th, I knew it was going to be very, very tough to pull the game out. If you retire the leadoff hitter, even if Pujols takes you deep it's only tied.

Patrick Bateman
04-17-2006, 07:23 PM
No you are right I would have pitched to Rolan in the ninth but I sure would have walked Pujols.As far as the other Rolan at bats Yes I would have walked him b/c I knew Edmonds was'nt in the lineup to hurt me.I can't remember the guy who batted behind Rolan but he sure is no Edmonds so I would have took my chances with that guy.

Walking Pujols decreased our chances of winning. The only reason everyone seems to have a problem with the call is hindsight.

Rodriguez was batting behind Rolen. With the Reds pitching staff putting guys on base is never a good idea. Rolen is good, but in an average at-bat he will do something worse than a walk. Constantly walking him will decrease the Reds' chances of winning even when guys like J-Rod are hitting behind him.

redsfan30
04-17-2006, 07:24 PM
No you are right I would have pitched to Rolan in the ninth but I sure would have walked Pujols.As far as the other Rolan at bats Yes I would have walked him b/c I knew Edmonds was'nt in the lineup to hurt me.I can't remember the guy who batted behind Rolan but he sure is no Edmonds so I would have took my chances with that guy.
Nevermind, I think I misunderstood.

WVPacman
04-17-2006, 07:29 PM
Surely you're not saying to walk both Pujols and Rolen are you?


Yep when we are only up by one or two runs and Edmonds out of the lineup I would walk them 90% of the time.Pujols and Rolen has always hit the ball very well againist us in their career.I would not let them beat me.Thats just my opinion!!

Falls City Beer
04-17-2006, 07:32 PM
I don't understand the hand-wringing over getting burned by great players like Pujols and Rolen. It's getting skunked by motile BMs like Rodriguez that chap this arse.

redsfan30
04-17-2006, 07:32 PM
Yep when we are only up by one or two runs and Edmonds out of the lineup I would walk them 90% of the time.Pujols and Rolen has always hit the ball very well againist us in their career.I would not let them beat me.Thats just my opinion!!
You would have even done that in the 9th inning???

KronoRed
04-17-2006, 07:34 PM
Normally I'd pitch to him, but after hitting 2 HR's in the game, I walk him and take a shot at Rolen

Patrick Bateman
04-17-2006, 07:34 PM
Yep when we are only up by one or two runs and Edmonds out of the lineup I would walk them 90% of the time.Pujols and Rolen has always hit the ball very well againist us in their career.I would not let them beat me.Thats just my opinion!!

That's an incredibly poor strategy to win a baseball game.

Up by 1 run you suggest walking both Pujols and Rolen?

If you do that let's say to lead off the inning, you now have two guys on and none out with the next guy only needing a single to tie. Pujols needs to hit a HR to tie.

Pretty much every single player in ML baseball (Womack included) has a better chance of getting a single or better than Pujols does of hitting a HR. If you walk both guys you might not be letting them beat you, but you are instead beating yourself.

Patrick Bateman
04-17-2006, 07:36 PM
I don't understand the hand-wringing over getting burned by great players like Pujols and Rolen. It's getting skunked by motile BMs like Rodriguez that chap this arse.

I agree. I would rather Pujols hittng a HR than guys like Miles doing it. At least when Pujols does it I can atrribute the loss to his greatness instead of our own pitcher's crapitude.

GAC
04-17-2006, 09:09 PM
The first mistake was giving up the hit to Marquis.

Getting that 1st out was important.

Then you can possible pitch around Pujol (at least not give him anthing to hit), and take your chance with Rolen.... may be set up for a DP.

I don't fault Narron. I fault Weathers. He had a 1-2 count and laid one right in there for him. Should have wasted a couple pitches.

Matt700wlw
04-17-2006, 09:39 PM
I don't want to point the finger at anybody and say they lost the game for the Reds,BUT anybody in their right mind would not pitch to Puhols or Rolan.Im not just talking about the 9th inning,im talking about the 9th inning and Puhols first two hr at bats.Why on earth would you pitch to those two guys when your lead is only by one or two runs. I would not give either one a chance to beat me exspecially with Edmonds out of the lineup.IMO Narron could atleast walked Puhols 2-3 times and Rolan atleast twice to get to an eaiser out.Again I don't want to blame nobody but I really think Narron could have managed the game a little smarter yesterday.

I would have walked Pujols (typically you don't want to put the winning run on base) and taken my chances with Rolen. However, had the bullpen done its job in the 8th, the lineup wouldn't have turned over allowing Pujols to come to bat in the 9th.

If you're going to pitch the Pujols, then you'd better brush him off the plate or even knock him down and make him think about it a bit. However, these are Reds pitchers and that's too aggressive for them.....if Pujols is going to beat you (which he will to many teams) don't make it easy on him.

GriffeyFan
04-17-2006, 10:28 PM
You don't let the other team's best player, and perhaps the best player in baseball, beat you in the 9th inning.

WVPacman
04-18-2006, 12:14 AM
You don't let the other team's best player, and perhaps the best player in baseball, beat you in the 9th inning.


Exactly!!

Gac you are right as well some of the plame goes on weathers to b/c he did'nt help things by throwing a ball right down the middle.Saying that I also blame Narron b/c he should have told him to walk him but its over with and we will beat them next time.:thumbup:

paintmered
04-18-2006, 12:19 AM
The game was lost when the leadoff batter reached base.

Keep him from reaching base and that game could still have gone to extra innings. Narron made the right decision despite the result.

WVRedsFan
04-18-2006, 01:29 AM
I don't understand the hand-wringing over getting burned by great players like Pujols and Rolen. It's getting skunked by motile BMs like Rodriguez that chap this arse.

Exactly. My father always told me that if you beat by someone better than you, you just got beat. Now, allowing Marquis to get a hit--that was pitiful, especially when you knew who was coming up next. But, of course, Weathers has never been a candidate for Mensa either.

ochre
04-18-2006, 02:31 PM
I don't understand the hand-wringing over getting burned by great players like Pujols and Rolen. It's getting skunked by motile BMs like Rodriguez that chap this arse.
Particularly when you are relying on a David Weathers type to overpower Pujols.