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View Full Version : Help! My roster's a friggin' mess....



Red Leader
04-18-2006, 02:14 PM
Simply put, I don't like my team.

R, H, HR, RBI, SB, BB, AVG, OBP, SLG, OPS
IP, W, L, SV, R, HR, BB, K, ERA, K/9

C - V. Martinez
1B - R. Sexson
2B - C. Utley
3B - M. Mora
SS - R. Furcal
OF - J. Bay
OF - M. Holliday
OF - B. Hawpe
UT - J. Gomes
UT - T. Hafner

I like Martinez, Utley, Bay, Gomes and Hafner. Don't mind Sexson or Mora.
I can't stand Furcal, Holliday or Hawpe. Ideally I'd like to have a different SS and 2 new OF's in place of Holliday and Hawpe.

SP - R. Harden
SP - J. Patterson
SP - B. Myers
SP - E. Bedard
RP - B. Ryan
RP - C. Ray
P - J. Papelbon
P - T. Gordon
BN - B. Penny
BN - J. Bonderman

I like all of my pitchers. I don't think I need 4 RP's and I'd like to have 1 bench hitter instead of 2 bench pitchers, but I'm ok with what I have.

Not sure what to do with my team overall. The two SS's I'd want in place of Furcal are Felipe Lopez and Derek Jeter. Lopez is on a team that made a trade earlier this year and I fought with him telling him that the trade was too lopsided and now that owner won't trade with me. I could possibly get Jeter, but would have to give up Furcal and another player. Can't figure out which second player I should give up, and he can't figure out what 2nd player he should give up, and he doesn't want to do a 1-1 of Jeter and Furcal. As for the OF, I can't figure out a way to get a good OF. I've offered Bonderman + Holliday for H. Matsui, V. Wells, C. Beltran, etc, etc with no takers at all. Nobody wants Holliday it seems. Same with Hawpe. Not sure what to do there.

So players I want to or could give up and not have any problems with it: Furcal, Holliday, Hawpe, Bonderman, and Gordon.

Players I'd want to get back: Jeter or Lopez; and 2 decent OF's.


Any thoughts or ideas on how I can do this?

westofyou
04-18-2006, 02:26 PM
I'd offer Bonderman & Furcal AND Holladay straight up for Jeter.

Heath
04-18-2006, 02:30 PM
at least you don't play in an NL-only league like I do.

Which, I must admit, is actually a lot more challenging .. and fun.

Red Leader
04-18-2006, 02:30 PM
I'd offer Bonderman & Furcal AND Holladay straight up for Jeter.


3-1?

Bonderman, Furcal and Holliday for Jeter? Yikes, that's a steep price to pay.

I'm pretty sure I could get away with offering Bonderman + Furcal, or Holliday + Furcal for Jeter.

He was thinking about doing Bonderman + Furcal for Jeter + Pierre. I hate Juan Pierre, but it doesn't really matter to me.

He also has Cliff Lee. I was thinking maybe Bonderman, Holliday and Furcal for Jeter and Cliff Lee.

westofyou
04-18-2006, 02:36 PM
3-1?

Bonderman, Furcal and Holliday for Jeter? Yikes, that's a steep price to pay.
Maybe, but Bonderman has experienced arm pains this spring, Furcal has had some health problems and will take an offensive hit in LA, and jeter is a stud in the middle of an offensive team, he'll rack up more points alone then those three.

If you hate your team then a bold move might help... that gives you some great up the middle power.. Bay/Utley/Martinez/Jeter is way sexier than Furcal in there, with Bonderman on the bench.

The real gamble is whether Holliday increases his BB totals or hits .300

Handofdeath
04-18-2006, 03:00 PM
You might not like to do it but the best way to get what you want is to trade Harden, perhaps package him with another player or two. But why trade Furcal? He's a .280 lifetime hitter and most importantly he steals bases. 46 last year if I'm not mistaken. Most owners won't trade you a good stolen base guy without getting one in return. Furcal always starts a little slow. Don't trade those stolen bases away because you won't get them back. Hawpe is raking right now too. Four homers last week and he wasn't playing at Coors Field. Calm down, pour yourself a drink and put some Pink Floyd on. It's going to be okay. Good pitching, believe it or not, can always be had on the waiver wire. Especially early in the season. If he's not taken see if you can pick up Clemens. This time of the year there are pitchers on the waiver wire who were either hurt last year or just had a bad year and no one wants to take a chance. Also it might not be a bad thing to check out that rookie player on the wire who you have never heard of but who's playing pretty good right now. Be patient and educated but be ready to take chances. Keep Martinez, Furcal, Bay, Utley, and Ryan because the chances of getting equal players in a trade is nil. Build the rest of your team around them.

westofyou
04-18-2006, 03:08 PM
Calm down, pour yourself a drink and put some Pink Floyd on.

But make sure it's not The Final Cut unless the cutterley in the home has been removed.

Red Leader
04-18-2006, 03:09 PM
But make sure it's not The Final Cut unless the cutterley in the home has been removed.



:laugh:

Thanks for the help and advice, guys. :thumbup:

IowaRed
04-18-2006, 04:22 PM
RL, in my opinion it's way too early to give up on Holliday, I think he's going to end up with some good numbers. I like your team but I think you're going to need Furcal's SB's. Somebody will come calling for a closer at some point

Red Leader
04-18-2006, 04:31 PM
What makes me mad is that I've either won or come in 2nd place in this league each of the last 5 years by punting the SB category. Not really punting it, but I never drafted a SB guy. I'd get guys like Vlad, Jeter, etc that would give me a handful of SB's, maybe 1 a week and stay competitive in that category. This year, I screwed up in the draft and the computer auto-selected Furcal for me. I'm trying to undo that and get a roster closer to what I've had in the past, and no one wants these SB guys, they all want power guys. I can't make an offer to someone without them countering it asking for V.Martinez, Bay, Utley, or Harden in return.

I just don't like Furcal. Don't even like watching him play. If I could just trade him and Hawpe for a decent SS, I'd be fine with that.

Everybody in my league acts like Bonderman pitches for the Royals. No one wants him. I'm amazed. He's a pretty good pitcher. Gets decent K's, wins 10+ games and his ERA is pretty respectable. He should be worth something.

Johnny Footstool
04-18-2006, 05:43 PM
Your team is very solid, top to bottom. Slow starts from Sexson, Utley, and Furcal are nothing to worry about. The only place your lineup isn't strong is at the two OF positions, and those are the easiest to fill via the waiver wire.

Don't sweat it.

Red Leader
04-19-2006, 08:50 AM
Your team is very solid, top to bottom. Slow starts from Sexson, Utley, and Furcal are nothing to worry about. The only place your lineup isn't strong is at the two OF positions, and those are the easiest to fill via the waiver wire.

Don't sweat it.


Would you drop Hawpe and pick up Alexis Rios, who is really starting to come into his own in Toronto?

Also, discussing a deal where I would send SS Furcal, OF Hawpe, and SP Penny and get SS Jeter and SP Cliff Lee. I could then use the extra spot on Rios, or another player. In the end is that better for my team. Sure, I'll be down SB's, but I think Jeter is better than Furcal, and I think Lee is better than Penny. Hawpe as I mentioned before was a waiver pickup for me and I have no problems losing him one way or another. I think I've been too impatient with Matt Holliday. His bat should come around, and he's leading my team in RBI despite hitting like .220 and not drawing a walk all year.

Johnny Footstool
04-19-2006, 10:16 AM
Personally, I don't like Cliff Lee. His K/9 is too low for my taste. Penny's problem is and always will be his health, but when he's healthy, he's very good.

I like Hawpe better than Rios, thanks to the Coors factor.

That said, if you have a chance to get Jeter for Furcal, I'd take it. With Michael Young still not knowing the strike zone and with Tejada going through steroid withdrawal, I think Jeter is the game's top SS this season.

Red Leader
04-19-2006, 10:28 AM
Personally, I don't like Cliff Lee. His K/9 is too low for my taste. Penny's problem is and always will be his health, but when he's healthy, he's very good.

I like Hawpe better than Rios, thanks to the Coors factor.

That said, if you have a chance to get Jeter for Furcal, I'd take it. With Michael Young still not knowing the strike zone and with Tejada going through steroid withdrawal, I think Jeter is the game's top SS this season.

He won't do Furcal for Jeter straight up, We've already talked about that ad nauseum.

I kind of felt the same way about Cliff Lee and since K's and K/9 are stats in our league, that's a legit argument.

I guess I could just offer Furcal and Hawpe for Jeter by himself and forget about the pitchers, but if he really wants Penny or Bonderman and really wants to include Lee, I'd probably still take it.

My main concern all along is to get Jeter. I'm just not sure which other players to kick into this deal on my side, or which other players on his side to try and get back.

His current roster:

C - J. Lopez
1B - L. Overbay
2B - B. Roberts
3B - A. Rodriguez
SS - D. Jeter
OF - G. Sheffield
OF - C. Crawford
OF - J. Damon
UT - R. Freel
UT - J. Pierre
BN - B. Wilkerson

SP - B. Webb
SP - K. Millwood
SP - M. Cain
SP - T. Glavine
RP - B. Wickman
RP - D. Baez
P - C. Lee
P - M. Batista
DL - M. Prior
DL - E. Gagne


He's got tons of Yankees, and doesn't really like the Yankees. He's also got tons of "speed guys", Crawford, Pierre, Roberts, Freel, Jeter, Damon, A-Rod, etc. So if he traded Jeter for Furcal, he should NEVER lose the SB category any given week. He needs another bat to drive in runs and he could use Penny or Bonderman to help his rotation down the road.

Reds Nd2
04-19-2006, 06:10 PM
I can't stand Furcal, Holliday or Hawpe.

I just picked up Hawpe from the free agent wire about a two weeks ago. I was wondering why you don't like him, or more importantly, am I missing something with him?

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 12:57 PM
I just picked up Hawpe from the free agent wire about a two weeks ago. I was wondering why you don't like him, or more importantly, am I missing something with him?

No, you're not missing anything.

I'm hating him because I can't decide what to do with him. On paper, it would appear that he's my weakest offensive player, but he's producing, moreso than Holliday at this point.

I'm just not sure what to expect out of Holliday or Hawpe at this point. I don't know whether I should try and trade Hawpe, while his value is high, or ride it out and then dump him when his numbers start to go down, or keep him and enjoy a good offensive season from him. With Holliday, I'm not sure if this is a sophmore slump, or whether he'll rebound and put up really good numbers... They're both capable of anything, I suppose.


My trade of Bonderman, Furcal, and Hawpe for Jeter and Cliff Lee was turned down.

I'm going to see if he'll take Bonderman and Furcal for Jeter by himself. If not, I'm not sure what to do. I'll probably drop Bonderman and pick up an offensive bench player.

I also have Coco Crisp on the DL. I'm not sure who to drop to activate him, especially if Hawpe, and Holliday continue to produce like they are now, and the player I pick up for Bonderman is continuing to produce. I'd hate to lose Holliday's power for Crisp's SB's, runs, and hits.

If I could trade for Jeter, I think my team wouldn't suffer as much dropping Holliday or Hawpe and activating Crisp because Jeter produces more HR and RBI than Furcal....

:dunno: :dunno:

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 01:27 PM
You might try offering Furcal and Harden for Jeter and a lesser pitcher. One question, has he ever offered a counter deal with Jeter involved?

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 01:28 PM
You might try offering Furcal and Harden for Jeter and a lesser pitcher. One question, has he ever offered a counter deal with Jeter involved?

No, he hasn't countered at all just says "not interested in that one, but I'm willing to listen" in all of his replies.

Harden will not be included in this deal, in any way.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 01:36 PM
No, he hasn't countered at all just says "not interested in that one, but I'm willing to listen" in all of his replies.

Harden will not be included in this deal, in any way.
Just ask him flat out what he wants for Jeter. If he can't give you a definite answer then you ain't gonna get him. Of course he may be one of those mealy mouth punks who shoot down a reasonable offer from one owner and take a less reasonable offer from another. Problem is, he knows how bad you want him. You may have to give up Harden to get him.

IowaRed
04-20-2006, 01:40 PM
At this point I would do 1 of 2 things (if you already haven't done them)
1-I would flat out say "what is it you want for Jeter?"
2-I would back way off and let him come to you. He knows you are interested, he may just be waiting to see how lopsided a deal you are willing to make. Like the kind of deal you usually see less experienced fantasy players make to get their favorite player on their team. Your team is still solid-as they say sometimes the deals you don't make are the best ones

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 01:47 PM
At this point I would do 1 of 2 things (if you already haven't done them)
1-I would flat out say "what is it you want for Jeter?"
2-I would back way off and let him come to you. He knows you are interested, he may just be waiting to see how lopsided a deal you are willing to make. Like the kind of deal you usually see less experienced fantasy players make to get their favorite player on their team.


Yeah, I have reached my cut off point. I told him "this is my final offer, Bonderman and Furcal for Jeter. If you aren't interested, that's fine, but this is the last offer I'm making."

And it is. It's not that I want "Jeter" that bad, I just want a somewhat equal return for Furcal. The owner that has Felipe won't deal, and the owner that has Rollins won't deal. The only owner that has said that he'd deal has Jhonny Peralta, and I'm not sure that he'll even come close to last years numbers. If I was more than 50% sure he would, I'd deal Furcal and maybe Holliday or Hawpe for Peralta and maybe Jorge Cantu or Eric Chavez.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 01:57 PM
Have you offered Furcal for Peralta straight up? That's a fair deal. The Indians would not have given a long term deal to Peralta if they thought he wasn't going to do it again.

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 01:59 PM
Have you offered Furcal for Peralta straight up? That's a fair deal. The Indians would not have given a long term deal to Peralta if they thought he wasn't going to do it again.

No. I don't think that's a fair deal.

With that team it would have to be Furcal and Hawpe / Holliday for Peralta and Cantu / E. Chavez.

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 02:31 PM
He accepted.

Bonderman and Furcal for Jeter.

Now that he has Furcal, he's going to try and deal Crawford and Pierre in sepearate deals for power bats, which I think is a smart move on his part.

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2006, 02:50 PM
You got the best end of that deal.

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 02:54 PM
You got the best end of that deal.

Looking at their numbers last year.

Furcal hit 12 HR's, Jeter hit 19.
Furcal had 58 RBI, Jeter had 70.
Furcal had 46 SB's, Jeter had 14.

Now, I think Furcal's HR's will go down because of playing in Chavez Ravine, and its possible Jeter's will go up maybe 2-3 to get him in the 20's, but I think Jeter needs to steal at least 20 bags for this to be a surefire win trade for me, and that doesn't even take Bonderman into consideration. If he somehow "gets it" at some point this season and becomes more consistent, this may end up actually being a loss for me.

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2006, 05:13 PM
Nah. Jeter will outperform Furcal in every category except SBs. Your league counts OPS, too, and Jeter's will be around .835. Furcal's will be closer to .760.

It would take a sudden, dramatic decline in performance for Jeter to drop to Furcal's level.

And Bonderman is the type of pitcher you can replace with a waiver wire pickup.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 10:23 AM
Ok, so my Furcal and Bonderman for Jeter trade has been accepted.

Now another team in my league wants Jonny Gomes, and he wants him badly.

Players on his team that interest me:

J. Cantu, E. Chavez, J. Peralta, R. Winn, A. Rios, and R. Weeks.

I was going to pick up Rios when my trade went through, but he beat me to it. I'm now probably going to pick up Edwin Encarnacion.

Not sure if a Gomes for Cantu and Rios trade would work. He said that he's willing to do a 2-1 for Gomes, he just didn't specify players that he'd be willing to give up.

If I do a 2-1 of Gomes for 2 of his players, I won't be picking Edwin up.

Which 2 players would you try and get for Gomes, or would you just hold tight with what I have now:

C - V. Martinez
1B - R. Sexson
2B - C. Utley
3B - M. Mora
SS - D. Jeter
OF - J. Bay
OF - M. Holliday
OF - B. Hawpe
UT - T. Hafner
UT - J. Gomes (or one of his players)
BN - FA pickup (E. Encarnacion, R. Ibanez, C. Granderson, J. Gibbons) or other player in Gomes' deal.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 10:47 AM
His initial offer was Jorge Cantu and Jhonny Peralta for Gomes.

Good deal for me, or should I stick with Gomes and Edwin, or counter and ask for Cantu and Rios, or Chavez and Rios, and forget Peralta since I now have Jeter?


:dunno:

IowaRed
04-21-2006, 11:32 AM
take the deal

Johnny Footstool
04-21-2006, 11:47 AM
I'd keep Gomes. He'll OPS in the .950 range this season. He hits for average, power, and draws walks. The dude is a top 15 OF.

Cantu is allergic to walks. Rios is off to a good start, but he's unproven.

You don't need to make a deal now. Hold off.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 11:56 AM
take the deal

I like what I've heard of Cantu. Many people rave about his swing being similar to Manny's. He doesn't walk at all, though. I'm concerned about him taking a step back this year, less than Peralta, but there is still a concern there. His 2B/3B eligibility would be nice to have, though. Having Jeter now, I don't really have a need for Peralta, unless he really heats up, then I can deal him possibly down the road.

I've stated before that I think Gomes will be a monster this year, though. Maybe Travis Hafner circa 2005. He's walked a lot more this year than he has in the past. If that keeps that up, we'd surely be looking at a .950 OPS guy, if not more. That's invaluable. He OPS'd .906 last year and only drew 39 BB's in 348 AB's. He's already walked 13 times in 52 AB's this year. That's a big difference, and I'm not sure I want to give that up because I won't be getting the walks or OPS from anyone I'd be getting back.

On the surface, this really looks like a lopsided deal in my favor. If you look at the stats from last year - but I don't know about this year. Do you really think this is a good deal for me overall?

Johnny Footstool
04-21-2006, 12:13 PM
He OPS'd .906 last year and only drew 39 BB's in 348 AB's. He's already walked 13 times in 52 AB's this year. That's a big difference, and I'm not sure I want to give that up because I won't be getting the walks or OPS from anyone I'd be getting back.


A BB rate over 10% is already very good -- it's a great rule of thumb when evaluating players. Gomes BB rate this year is even better. Those are the marks of an elite hitter, as are 7 HR in 52 ABs.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 12:22 PM
I'd keep Gomes. He'll OPS in the .950 range this season. He hits for average, power, and draws walks. The dude is a top 15 OF.

Cantu is allergic to walks. Rios is off to a good start, but he's unproven.

You don't need to make a deal now. Hold off.

Thanks, Johnny. Kind of what I was thinking on Gomes. A 950+ OPS guy doesn't emerge on the waiver wire too often, and its difficult to replace in a trade, especially when you're trading a guy as "unknown" as Gomes.

The other positions I worry about are 2 OF spots and 3B, which is why I had some interest in Cantu. I have Melvin Mora now at 3B. I think M2 called for him to be the MVP of the AL this year. He is in a contract year. He's started slowly, but he is capable of being a monster, too. Only have to go back to 2004 to see that. I think if I keep Gomes and pick up Edwin, I should be alright at 3B, though.

As far as the OF, I have Coco Crisp on the DL, and he should be back in about 3 weeks. He can replace either Encarnacion, Hawpe or Holliday, whoever is producing the least.




I'm leaning toward: No deal.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 12:25 PM
A BB rate over 10% is already very good -- it's a great rule of thumb when evaluating players. Gomes BB rate this year is even better. Those are the marks of an elite hitter, as are 7 HR in 52 ABs.

Thanks, Johnny. That helps a bunch.

IowaRed
04-21-2006, 02:12 PM
While I agree with the math, the reasons I would do the deal are-OF's are generally easier to find than position players, especially one with multiple pos. eligibility. Also, I don't see OPS as an issue for your team especially with the addition of Jeter/subtraction of Furcal. BB's may be another story but you would have Peralta and Jeter at SS, plus you would have Cantu backing up Utley and Mora. You have depth in case of injury to your team or in case somebody else needs to trade for a quality IF.