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View Full Version : The future- its not as bleak as you think (my take)



Benihana
04-18-2006, 09:34 PM
How long are Hatteberg, Womack and Aurillia's contracts? Are they up after this year? I ask because I for one think Brandon Phillips could be the real deal. He could finally fufill his once touted top-notch potential. And I say this knowing that I will be blasted for jumping to conclusions too early with such a small sample size and yadda yadda yadda. However, I loved this acquisition when it happened. For some reason, faded prospects have a way of flourishing in Cincinnati, and hopefully Brandon Phillips is the next in the line of Felipe Lopez, Jose Guillen, Juan Encarnacion, etc. While some have never found their luster like Ruben Mateo, Ruben Rivera, and Russ Branyan, the aforementioned have flourished into the allstar caliber players they were supposed to be when they were coming with other teams. If this is indeed the case, it would be scary to move Dunn to 1B (hence the Hatteberg/Aurillia/Womack question) and field a lineup of

CF Freel
SS Lopez
1B Dunn
RF Kearns
LF Griffey, Jr.
3B Encarnacion
2B Phillips
C LaRue/Valentin/Ross/whoever

for the next 5-10 years. Everyone in that lineup is young enough to play (and play relatively inexpensively) for the next five years with the exception of Griffey. I also believe that we should lock Harang and Claussen up to longterm yet relatively cheap Bronson Arroyo-like contracts. With the above lineup set and those three teamed up with an already improved Eric Milton, we are truly one frontline starter away from being a Pennant contender. And with our first two promising young guns in some time coming up through the minors in Travis Wood and Homer Bailey, the future may not be as bleak as you think!

TOBTTReds
04-18-2006, 09:38 PM
I would throw Joey Votto in there for the future. He has started off hot this season and can hopefully bounce back and be ready in 07 to atleast play a bit for the Reds.

Benihana
04-18-2006, 09:53 PM
I would throw Joey Votto in there for the future. He has started off hot this season and can hopefully bounce back and be ready in 07 to atleast play a bit for the Reds.

Yep, I agree. My only point was that right now with no further acquisitions the Reds have all the major league proven guys at every position that they need. In a year or two when KGJ is done, hopefully Votto can take over 1B and we'll move Dunn back to the OF to take Jr's spot.

Patrick Bateman
04-19-2006, 12:36 AM
Everyone in that lineup is young enough to play (and play relatively inexpensively) for the next five years with the exception of Griffey. I also believe that we should lock Harang and Claussen up to longterm yet relatively cheap Bronson Arroyo-like contracts.

Dunn and Lopez will make $50M plus each over the next 5 years.

Sabo Fan
04-19-2006, 12:49 AM
I wouldn't be so quick to jump on the Brandon Phillips bandwagon. I like what he's done thus far and I'd like to think a change of scenery will do him good, but the sample size is way too small. I think Freel is a more likely option at second base than Phillips, with Griffey moving either to first or left and Denorfia manning center. My lineup would look something like this:

2B Freel
SS Lopez
LF Dunn
1B Griffey
RF Kearns
3B Encarnacion
CF Denorfia
C ???

I left the catcher spot open because I feel like the Reds biggest need beyond pitching is the cather position. LaRue has an awful lot of innings behind the plate and he's not getting any younger. I think going out and getting a young catcher with some good upside should be priority #2 ,right behind starting pitching. Something to think about: Atlanta has a young catcher coming in Jarrod Saltalamacchia that could either force a position switch or lead them to look to move Brian McCann. If neither become available (McCann is probably the more likely to be moved), there's a third guy in that system named Brayan Pena who is worth a look. If nothing else he can be part of a younger catching platoon, not unlike the LaRue/Valentin combo that the Reds currently employ.

I'll agree that the future looks somewhat promising, especially if Votto continues to hit and Jay Bruce gets fast-tracked like I think he will, but this organization's fortunes rest squarely on its ability to find pitching. I'm not so worried with the bullpen despite its current state because it has been proven that good bullpens can be built by taking advantage of freely-available talent. It's going to be bad this year, but I think it can improve by 2007. If the Reds can find a legit #1 or #2 then they might just have something with Harang, Arroyo, and Claussen.

flyer85
04-19-2006, 12:56 AM
Dunn and Lopez will make $50M plus each over the next 5 years.Lopez will get it from someone else. He will not sign with the Reds.

The everyday lineup is not the problem.

WVPacman
04-19-2006, 12:59 AM
Reds | LaRue to start Wednesday
Tue, 18 Apr 2006 20:19:44 -0700

Reds.MLB.com's Mark Sheldon reports Cincinnati Reds C Jason LaRue is slated to start Wednesday, April 19. He was available to play Tuesday night, April 18, after being recalled, but he had already caught on consecutive days in his rehab stint and sat in favor of C David Ross. "As far as I know, I'm the starting catcher," said LaRue.

Read that last line guys,you think Larue is worried about his starting spot??

reds44
04-19-2006, 01:27 AM
Don't forget about Mr. Bergolla down in AAA.

KronoRed
04-19-2006, 03:49 AM
Dunn and Lopez will make $50M plus each over the next 5 years.
One has a chance to give us a discount, hometown team and all that, the other is out of here if he keeps it up..sadly.

WMR
04-19-2006, 04:04 AM
One has a chance to give us a discount, hometown team and all that, the other is out of here if he keeps it up..sadly.

Astrobuddy, is that you???

KronoRed
04-19-2006, 04:11 AM
That's a flame!!!! ;)

KronoRed
04-19-2006, 04:11 AM
I said chance..not a guarantee that he's going to sign for the minimum :evil:

WMR
04-19-2006, 04:12 AM
Lmao!! ;)

princeton
04-19-2006, 11:08 AM
How long are Hatteberg, Womack and Aurillia's contracts? Are they up after this year? I ask because I for one think Brandon Phillips could be the real deal. He could finally fufill his once touted top-notch potential. And I say this knowing that I will be blasted for jumping to conclusions too early with such a small sample size and yadda yadda yadda. However, I loved this acquisition when it happened. For some reason, faded prospects have a way of flourishing in Cincinnati, and hopefully Brandon Phillips is the next in the line of Felipe Lopez, Jose Guillen, Juan Encarnacion, etc. While some have never found their luster like Ruben Mateo, Ruben Rivera, and Russ Branyan, the aforementioned have flourished into the allstar caliber players they were supposed to be when they were coming with other teams. If this is indeed the case, it would be scary to move Dunn to 1B (hence the Hatteberg/Aurillia/Womack question) and field a lineup of

CF Freel
SS Lopez
1B Dunn
RF Kearns
LF Griffey, Jr.
3B Encarnacion
2B Phillips
C LaRue/Valentin/Ross/whoever

for the next 5-10 years. Everyone in that lineup is young enough to play (and play relatively inexpensively) for the next five years with the exception of Griffey. I also believe that we should lock Harang and Claussen up to longterm yet relatively cheap Bronson Arroyo-like contracts. With the above lineup set and those three teamed up with an already improved Eric Milton, we are truly one frontline starter away from being a Pennant contender. And with our first two promising young guns in some time coming up through the minors in Travis Wood and Homer Bailey, the future may not be as bleak as you think!

I read these posts in 2002, in 2003, and in 2004.

Phillips helps because the Reds need someone to catch the ball. But he's non-impact, the FO remains too meek to address the Griffey defense problem, the farm system is all fertilizer/no crop, and many more 2005s will happen before a 1999 does.

lollipopcurve
04-19-2006, 11:34 AM
I read these posts in 2002, in 2003, and in 2004.

veteran

Benihana
04-19-2006, 04:53 PM
That's fine, but to answer the naysers, I even preceded my claim by saying I know sample size and its too early and yadda yadda. I'm just saying (not even because of what he's done in the past week) but because I've been following the kid since he was a AA prospect in the Expos system, I think worst case the Reds have another Pokey Reese, best case he could be another FeLo. Obviously only time will tell.

Benihana
04-20-2006, 11:46 PM
I mean, I love this kid!! 3-4 with a GS tonight, and counting...

Phhhl
04-21-2006, 12:32 PM
I like Phillips. But, he is "toolsy". He wasn't a prospect because he sported a .400 obp throughout the minor leagues. I think the comparisons to Pokey Reece are valid, although Brandon seems to have quite a bit more power. He is just locked in right now. He's not looking for pitches, working the count or doing anything cerebral at the dish. He is just locked in and ripping. That's great, but we all know that doesn't last very long.

He may be the solution even if he hit's .240 and bats eighth, if he can help fix the horrific infield defense and sub for Lopez on occasion. He doesn't have to be the next coming of Joe Morgan on a team that can hit like this.

I love the deal. It made the Reds a little younger and improved the defense. If he continues to hit at all, I do think Phillips will be looked at as a key acquisition for this club for years to come.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 12:43 PM
I like Phillips. But, he is "toolsy". He wasn't a prospect because he sported a .400 obp throughout the minor leagues. and neither was Felipe Lopez. The .400 OBP and 900 OPS guys at defensive positions are few and far between.

The career and minor league numbers of Phillips are very similar to one Felipe Lopez.

smith288
04-21-2006, 01:20 PM
I love the deal. It made the Reds a little younger and improved the defense. If he continues to hit at all, I do think Phillips will be looked at as a key acquisition for this club for years to come.

D'Angelo Jiminez says hi :wave:

Reds1
04-21-2006, 02:04 PM
Dunn and Lopez will make $50M plus each over the next 5 years.

That's the problem. this team offensively is ready to win now or at least maybe next season. The problem is by the time we home grow pitching these guys will be too expensive to keep. The hope I have is our starters keep us in the game and then we go out and get a front line pitcher and closer and then we could be talking about something, but at this point I don't think the pitching with this defense is going to be strong enough.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 03:42 PM
D'Angelo Jiminez says hi :wave:
That turned bad when Dan O extended him when we had Freel to play the same spot, dumping him for nothing was just the expried frosting on top.

buckeyenut
04-22-2006, 09:58 AM
and neither was Felipe Lopez. The .400 OBP and 900 OPS guys at defensive positions are few and far between.

The career and minor league numbers of Phillips are very similar to one Felipe Lopez.

If I remember right, the numbers are actually eerily similar but in fact a little better, and he has not had some of the huge freak injury issues that Felipe I believe had. I think Phillips is going to be a nice add to this team's long term future, but he is going to take patience.

As much as I love Freel (and I do love him as a ballplayer and believe he ought to be our everyday leadoff hitter somehow), Phillips IMO has to start every day (obviously with normal days off) the rest of the season regardless of how good or bad (pending mendoza line effort) he performs. That is what is best for long term future of club.

Benihana
04-22-2006, 05:07 PM
If I remember right, the numbers are actually eerily similar but in fact a little better, and he has not had some of the huge freak injury issues that Felipe I believe had. I think Phillips is going to be a nice add to this team's long term future, but he is going to take patience.

As much as I love Freel (and I do love him as a ballplayer and believe he ought to be our everyday leadoff hitter somehow), Phillips IMO has to start every day (obviously with normal days off) the rest of the season regardless of how good or bad (pending mendoza line effort) he performs. That is what is best for long term future of club.

couldnt agree more. Phillips should be the everyday 2B on this club for the rest of the year, with Freel starting 4-5 days a week in the OF.