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View Full Version : Pena-Arroyo deal not working out for anyone: Short sighted thinking



savafan
04-19-2006, 02:23 PM
http://msn.foxsports.com/mlb/story/5515898

Kevin Hench / FOXSports.com


Surprise, surprise, surprise, David Wells and Ken Griffey, Jr. are on the DL.

Who could possibly have seen this coming?

Apparently not the Red Sox or Reds, who made a trade in March that sent pitcher Bronson Arroyo from Boston to Cincinnati in exchange for outfielder Wily Mo Pena. The rationale was clear: The Sox had too many starting pitchers and the Reds had one too many outfielders. The deal was made, no backsies.

Yes, it's true, the Red Sox had seven potential starters in spring training. But Jonathan Papelbon became the closer, Arroyo was dealt and then the 42-year-old, left-handed tub of goo suffered the latest in a long line of injuries that might have been avoided if he had any interest in taking care of himself. (Or has Wells found a doctor to tell him that carrying 50 extra pounds is good for your back and knees?) And this is how a team that supposedly had seven starters in spring training ends up having Lenny DiNardo make a start just two weeks into the season.

The Reds are probably having a lot less trader's remorse at this point, since Arroyo (2-0, 3.86) has gotten off to a good start and Pena looks bewildered in the Boston outfield. But, that said, Cincy dealt a 24-year-old power hitter for a 29-year-old pitcher who came into the season with 33 career wins.



It's too bad Boston and Cincinnati can't borrow a page from English soccer for the next couple of months. In the Premiership, teams regularly loan players to one another with the understanding that they are still under contract to their original team while they get valuable playing time for their temporary side. Arroyo could help hold the fort in Boston for the next two months until Roger Clemens and his Brinks truck arrive this summer. (The back-to-back calamities by Wells and Matt Clement last week brought me around right quick to the notion of the Rocket returning for what must surely be the twilight we heard about 10 years ago.) Pena, meanwhile, could provide some of the missing pop while Griffey convalesces from this injury and the inevitable one that will follow.

Wily Mo would no doubt welcome the brief respite from the year-round playoff intensity of Boston. His tape-measure shots had made him a fan favorite in Cincinnati, but his curious approach to fly balls in Boston has already made him a target of the Boston fans' derision. In his first week in right field while Trot Nixon recovered from his own all-too-predictable groin injury Pena dropped a Frank Catalanotto fly ball into the bullpen for a home run, misjudged a Raul Ibanez line drive into a ground-rule double and misplayed a Jose Lopez sinking liner into a triple. Is there such a thing as fielding for the cycle? Poor Wily Mo has already made so many gaffes in Fenway's expansive right field that the fans gave him a Bronx cheer on Monday when he successfully bent over and fielded a routine base hit.

Arroyo could be loaned back to Boston with the understanding that he would be flown to Cincy on short notice if the Reds were facing the Cubs' Glendon Rusch, who famously served up home runs to Arroyo in back-to-back starts. While Arroyo may not have been in Boston's long-term plans despite the three-year, home-team-discount contract they got him to sign the scrawny righty would certainly be a welcome sight in the short term. Over the last three seasons, right-handed batters have hit .228 against him with a .281 OBP and a .647 OPS. Boston fans could hardly be blamed for thinking about those numbers when Derek Jeter, Gary Sheffield and Alex Rodriguez are due up against DiNardo or, heck, even Wells next month. Starting May 1 the Sox and Yankees play 12 games in five weeks. Yikes.

Arroyo has never lost to the Yankees in six career regular-season starts. Okay, okay, he's never won either, but sometimes a six-inning no-decision is just what a team needs when it's going up against Hall of Famers' Row.

But, sadly, Arroyo won't be toeing the slab in Yankee Stadium for the Sox next month. No, he'll be pitching in increasingly inconsequential games as summer wears on and the Reds fade out of contention. Pena, meanwhile, will discover that his early baptism by fire was nothing compared to the heat of a pennant race in Boston. Assuming he continues to platoon with Nixon, Pena and his one strikeout every 2.8 at bats will be squaring off against Randy Johnson next month. Can you think of any other matchup less likely to produce a run with a runner on third and less than two outs? (Well, in fairness, Arroyo does strike out 58 percent of the time for his career, a stat Glendon Rusch refuses to believe.)

Don't get me wrong, I'm excited about Wily Mo. For next year. And the year after that. As for the here and now, it sure would be nice to have the hugely versatile rubber arm of Arroyo in the fold. The middle relief corps, of which Arroyo was pegged to be an indispensable member this season, looks like a looming disaster for Boston. David Riske was awful in spring training and worse in his single regular-season appearance before landing on the DL with a bad back. Rudy Seanez has been slapped around to the tune of a 10.80 ERA. The volcanic Julian Tavarez may have set some kind of record by serving a 10-day suspension before ever throwing a pitch for Boston. And now the pen's lone lefty, DiNardo, has been forced into the rotation by Wells's regularly scheduled trip to the DL.

Boy, the three-year, $12 million contract Arroyo signed before being dealt seems like a better deal than ever.

Seeing Boston's list of viable starting candidates reduced from seven to four and that includes the increasingly perplexing Clement in the span of less than a month inspired me to coin a new phrase. Ready? "You can never have too much pitching." I know it sounds radical never? but I think it might stick.

westofyou
04-19-2006, 02:24 PM
The Reds are probably having a lot less trader's remorse at this point, since Arroyo (2-0, 3.86) has gotten off to a good start and Pena looks bewildered in the Boston outfield. But, that said, Cincy dealt a 24-year-old power hitter for a 29-year-old pitcher who came into the season with 33 career wins.Yet the whole article is about how bad a deal it is now for the Sox.

Meanwhile 3 years of Plus 5 ERA is once again glossed over.

pedro
04-19-2006, 02:27 PM
why exactly isn't the trade working out for teh Reds at this point?

just another example of crappy sports writing.

savafan
04-19-2006, 02:29 PM
Well, if it isn't working out for the Red Sox (or Yankees), then it apparently isn't good for baseball writers.

TeamBoone
04-19-2006, 02:47 PM
Oh for Pete's sake... one bad start does not a long-term crappy pitcher make.

These writer's make me sick.

Roy Tucker
04-19-2006, 02:49 PM
... then the 42-year-old, left-handed tub of goo suffered the latest in a long line of injuries that might have been avoided if he had any interest in taking care of himself.
This writer cannot use the term "tub of goo". It was permanently retired for Terry Forster.

membengal
04-19-2006, 02:49 PM
By "anyone", he means "Boston".

By the way, for any of you that read Bill Simmons, that's his friend he won't shut up about, "Hench." Read with appropriate grains of salt...

Reds1
04-19-2006, 03:03 PM
Funny he was pointing out Arroyo had only 33 wins, but then said how he has pitched against the yanks and never lost or won! In my book that's amazing pitching. He also led that rotation last year in quality starts last season. The article just shows how good of a deal the reds got. Especially considering we have Freel and Deno down on the farm that can play a little bit. OF are easier to find. Pitching is not and that cheap contract is music to the reds ears. The more I hear and see the better the deal seems. Especially watching Wily Mo's defense. Does he even have a HR in a game this year yet? I did see he was 1-1 with 2 BB yesterday. not bad.

HalMorrisRules
04-19-2006, 03:04 PM
That is absolutely one of the worst articles I have ever read. It is written from a Red Sox perspective while trying to make it sound like it is written by a writer with no personal interest in either organization. I am enjoying all of the Red Sox fans doing 180's about this deal, when a month ago they were proclaiming Pena the next Sammy Sosa.

And we are really missing Pena, arent we? Freel is playing better than Pena could ever hope to play.

blumj
04-19-2006, 03:08 PM
Kevin Hench isn't a journalist, he's Bill Simmons's buddy, the Boston Sports Guy. He doesn't care about the effect on the Reds, anyway, because he's just another Red Sox fan blogger. And the whole premise of his argument is based on this: the Reds can't possibly make a deal that makes them better now because the Reds can't be a contending team, and the Red Sox can't make a deal for the future because the Red Sox can't not be a contending team. But everything that Red Sox fans are saying about Lenny Dinardo now, they were saying about Bronson Arroyo 2 years ago, and the Reds still have plenty of OFs. I'm surprised he isn't complaining about the Red Sox letting Damon go since Coco Crisp has a boo-boo. And Hanley Ramirez hit 2 HRs already, he'll be complaining about that trade as soon as Josh Beckett gets a blister.

KronoRed
04-19-2006, 03:58 PM
If Wily Mo stinks so bad why we would want him back?

Terrible article.

vaticanplum
04-19-2006, 05:15 PM
I second, third, fourth all of these thoughts. I wonder why articles like this are even written. It's short-sighted, it's uneducated, it's for whom -- the casual fan? The casual fan does not care a great deal about Wily Mo or Bronson Arroyo at this point.

Analyses of trades need to have a lot of things factored in, a lot of research and insight, and certainly cannot be made two weeks into the first season of said trades.

OldXOhio
04-19-2006, 05:36 PM
Kevin Hench = Red Sox fan

reds2221
04-19-2006, 05:40 PM
If Wily Mo stinks so bad why we would want him back?

Terrible article.
I agree with you on that!

smith288
04-19-2006, 05:54 PM
Bloggers like this makes actual knowledgable fans who keep blogs look dumber. There should be a law...

klw
04-19-2006, 06:08 PM
The trade wasn't shortsighted by the Red Sox and the writer actually confirms this by saying how excited he is by Wily Mo for the future. The trade was longsighted by the Sox to get a Nixon replacement, etc.:bang: :bang: :bang:

UK Reds Fan
04-19-2006, 06:16 PM
I am so sure that Germano, Belisle, Gosling, etc..or whomever would have filled Arroyo's spot in the rotation would be able to put up Bronson's numbers....:rolleyes:

While Kearns and Dunn are off to stearling years to offset any Wily Mo production...:rolleyes:

Was that article submitted by a 2nd grader in Boston?

PuffyPig
04-19-2006, 06:43 PM
With Griffey injured, we have used Freel/Phillips instead of Pena.

It has worked out exceedingly well for us. better hitting, better defense.

And Arroyo has pitched very well.

REDREAD
04-19-2006, 06:49 PM
Yet the whole article is about how bad a deal it is now for the Sox.


Yes, the Sox might have some regrets, but I don't think the Reds do.

I admit Arroyo isn't an ace, but he's going to be an affordable pitcher for the next 3 years. Hopefully he'll put up good numbers.. I like his chances better than Gosling, who apparently was the next on the depth chart, since he just got called up.

registerthis
04-19-2006, 06:52 PM
If Wily Mo stinks so bad why we would want him back?

So the Red Sox would be BETTER. Duh!!!

blumj
04-19-2006, 06:53 PM
Was that article submitted by a 2nd grader in Boston?
As a Red Sox fan, I'm embarrassed by it. Yes, there is a vocal segment of fans who are acting like they've never seen an OF misplay a ball before, and like the Red Sox traded Pedro '99 for Wily Mo. We're not really all like that.

StillFunkyB
04-19-2006, 06:56 PM
The more time passes, the more I like the deal.

I was not pleased at first, but I said I would reserve judgement, and I am glad I did.

Bill
04-20-2006, 01:00 AM
I believe he alluded to the thought that the Reds dealt a young power hitter for an older pitcher while they are not ready to contend (pitching in meaningless games in august to paraphrase). Perhaps he was suggesting they should have dealt young hitting for young pitching.

Benny-Distefano
04-20-2006, 09:28 AM
Well, if it isn't working out for the Red Sox (or Yankees), then it apparently isn't good for baseball writers.


Ding.


:confused: :bang:

reds1869
04-20-2006, 10:15 AM
As a fan of both teams, I'm ashamed of writers like this. Unfortunately they speak for a lot of the elitist New England element who thinks the world ends west of the MASS commonwealth line. I have family and friends in Boston and they feel like nothing in Cincinnati could ever be worthwhile. They make fun of our food, culture, accents, and style. Would you care to guess how many of them have ever been here since I moved to the Queen City? I cheer for both teams, but the hospitality and restrainedpassion in this city is why I love the Reds and merely follow the Red Sox. Boston is a beautiful city, but you couldn't pay me enough to leave Cincinnati ever again.

gm
04-20-2006, 11:51 AM
Wily Mo = DH

Pena's offensive defense reminds me of what Casey Stengel once said of a young Met's outfielder (Swoboda?) "He's a little weak on balls in the air...he jumps after them when they ain't there..."

TeamBoone
04-20-2006, 11:54 AM
Wow! Bostonians should NEVER make fun of others' accents because their's are about the worst.

reds1869
04-20-2006, 12:03 PM
Wow! Bostonians should NEVER make fun of others' accents because their's are about the worst.


Yep, my sister has lived there for only a few years but already talks about "cawhs drawvin doon the straight." :)

membengal
04-26-2006, 05:59 PM
To Kevin Hench, Bill Simmons' bestest friend:

From: Reds fans

Re: The Pena/Arroyo trade

It's working out for the Reds juuuuussssttttt fine, thanks.

danwl
04-26-2006, 06:48 PM
You mean that's one of his friends he won't shut up about.

Mario-Rijo
04-26-2006, 07:13 PM
"Pena-Arroyo deal not working out for anyone: Short sighted thinking ".................Is this statement Short Sighted thinking? Ahhhh Yeah!

Yachtzee
04-26-2006, 08:45 PM
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.

kbrake
04-26-2006, 09:04 PM
Wily Mo just went deep.......I think we got screwed.

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 09:14 PM
Wily Mo just went deep.......I think we got screwed.
Is he out of negative HR territory yet ? :evil:

smith288
04-26-2006, 09:52 PM
Mr. Madison, what you've just said is one of the most insanely idiotic things I have ever heard. At no point in your rambling, incoherent response were you even close to anything that could be considered a rational thought. Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points, and may God have mercy on your soul.
A simple "incorrect" would havbe sufficed. ;)

kbrake
04-26-2006, 10:10 PM
Is he out of negative HR territory yet ? :evil:

lol......I feel bad for Wily Mo in Boston.

RedsBaron
04-26-2006, 10:36 PM
I believe he alluded to the thought that the Reds dealt a young power hitter for an older pitcher while they are not ready to contend (pitching in meaningless games in august to paraphrase). Perhaps he was suggesting they should have dealt young hitting for young pitching.
Maybe so, but given how many young pitching arms have flamed out, and how many older pitchers are still going strong, I might prefer a mature 29 year old pitcher rather than a youngster.