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View Full Version : Merged: Trouble In Paradise For Womack? / Womack May Ask For Trade



shredda2000
04-19-2006, 04:05 PM
Narron quote Per Reds.com:

"I said, 'You might only play once or twice a week.' I, in no way, shape or form gave him any indication that he'd be our every day second baseman," Narron explained. "He knew coming in about what his situation would be. So far, he's handled it real well."


I am sure this is music to all Redszoner's ears :thumbup:

traderumor
04-19-2006, 04:13 PM
And to think we could have Kevin Howard playing in AAA and still have $1M in our pockets. Minor move in the big picture, but certainly a great example for anyone wanting to say "DanO wasn't all that bad." There is little doubt that Dick Wagner stepped up a rung in his little personal corner of Reds' hell after the DanO regime.

Aronchis
04-19-2006, 04:18 PM
Cast should have ordered O'brien locked down. None of his moves did overly alot of damage, but signing guys like Hammond(Kullman influenced?), trading for Womack were unnecessary. Ditto for the Kullman White signing. None of those guys should have been given power to make moves since they were not kept on.

traderumor
04-19-2006, 04:26 PM
Cast should have ordered O'brien locked down. None of his moves did overly alot of damage, but signing guys like Hammond(Kullman influenced?), trading for Womack were unnecessary. Ditto for the Kullman White signing. None of those guys should have been given power to make moves since they were not kept on.Didn't want to miss that small window of opportunity on those studs, though.

RedsManRick
04-19-2006, 04:36 PM
I imagine that the Casey and Womack deals largely played in to the reason why O'Brien didn't get much of a chance under Cast. I imagine he basically said "You know this squad better than me, so feel free to act. Just run it past me first." O'Brien horribly failed his audition and Cast didn't need to see him work through the season.

Red Leader
04-19-2006, 04:38 PM
I don't think it's right for a new owner to tell the current or temp GM (O'Brien, Kullman) to sit there and do nothing. Whether he's going to fire them or not, they should still be allowed to do their jobs until control of the team is taken over or a permanant replacement is put in place.

Having said that, I'm sure that Cast was notified of what moves were being made. It is possible that he didn't realize how truly incompetant O'Brien really was, though, and just assumed that O'Brien had some idea of what he was doing with the lesser known players like Howard.

TOBTTReds
04-19-2006, 04:39 PM
but signing guys like Hammond(Kullman influenced?)

I'm not giving up on him yet. He had a few bad games to start, but his ERA has dropped from infinite, to 189.00, all the way to 24.00 ;)

I think he will be ok. He has had sings on turning it around K'ing 3 of the last 7 batters faced. Small sample, but so was his bad string.

KronoRed
04-19-2006, 04:40 PM
He might get it down to 10, solid ;)

traderumor
04-19-2006, 04:42 PM
I don't think it's right for a new owner to tell the current or temp GM (O'Brien, Kullman) to sit there and do nothing. Whether he's going to fire them or not, they should still be allowed to do their jobs until control of the team is taken over or a permanant replacement is put in place.

Having said that, I'm sure that Cast was notified of what moves were being made. It is possible that he didn't realize how truly incompetant O'Brien really was, though, and just assumed that O'Brien had some idea of what he was doing with the lesser known players like Howard.Yes, but they missed a great opportunity to have all the pencils for the year sharpened and for all the execs to have their vehicles detailed. Pets needed taken care of. I could have found many important things for them to do ;)

OldXOhio
04-19-2006, 04:48 PM
Narron quote Per Reds.com:

"I said, 'You might only play once or twice a week.' I, in no way, shape or form gave him any indication that he'd be our every day second baseman," Narron explained. "He knew coming in about what his situation would be. So far, he's handled it real well."


I am sure this is music to all Redszoner's ears :thumbup:

Subtracting his PT by one or two days a week works for me.

redsfan30
04-19-2006, 04:53 PM
Hammond will be fine. That change is N A S T Y, nasty! Just think of him like David Weathers last season. He started slow and everyone wanted his head, not he is one of our best options out of the pen.

Chris Hammond
Kent Mercker
David Weathers
Todd Coffey

That's four decent to good relievers. Hopefully Brian Shakleford will pan out and make five. Now you've got two spots to fill (White and Belisle). I really think the five above will be ok. It's alot easier to fill two spots than it is to fill five.

kbrake
04-19-2006, 05:20 PM
Hammond still worries me, he looked good the other night agaisnt the Marlins, a Triple A team, with an 8 run lead. Anyone at his age will worry me. Not saying release him now, but I would keep him on a very short leash.

Hubba
04-19-2006, 05:50 PM
Hammond still worries me, he looked good the other night agaisnt the Marlins, a Triple A team, with an 8 run lead. Anyone at his age will worry me. Not saying release him now, but I would keep him on a very short leash. Some of the Reds starters also didn't look so good against the AAA's for that matter>

Fullboat
04-19-2006, 05:50 PM
Narron quote Per Reds.com:

"I said, 'You might only play once or twice a week.' I, in no way, shape or form gave him any indication that he'd be our every day second baseman," Narron explained. "He knew coming in about what his situation would be. So far, he's handled it real well."


I am sure this is music to all Redszoner's ears :thumbup:


This sounds like a setup by Rich Aurilia.

Rich Aurilia: Hey Tony, you got to complain to get playing time around here.

Tony Womack:Hey Rich,I took your advice and now there is talk of me being let go. :(

Rich Aurilia:Oh thats to bad Tony,but hey your a former Yankee you will be picked up
like that.

Rich Aurilia:One down One to go. :evil:

OnBaseMachine
04-20-2006, 07:38 AM
Idle Womack getting a bit antsy
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER

Tony Womack wasn't in a chatty mood Wednesday, but he gave a pretty good indication he's not real happy about his situation.

Womack was out of the starting lineup for the fifth straight game Wednesday.

More significantly, Brandon Phillips started at second base for the fourth straight game.

If Womack's playing time doesn't pick up, will he ask for a trade?

"It will come to that point," he said. "I don't know when."

Womack hasn't talked to manager Jerry Narron about the situation.

"There's nothing I can do about it," he said.

Womack, 36, is hitting .250 with three RBI. He's coming off a season in which he hit .249 with a .276 on-base percentage. So there's a good chance that there's no trade market for him.

Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky said no move is coming to ease the crowd at second base.

"I don't have to do anything today," Krivsky said. "(Womack's) on the team. He's a valuable guy. Everybody here is here for a reason. If they're not playing, they've got to stay ready to play. You never know when they might come up late in a game."

Womack is a player Krivsky inherited; Phillips is a player Krivsky obtained.

Former GM Dan O'Brien traded for Womack in December, despite having Ryan Freel available to play second. O'Brien then re-signed Rich Aurilia.

Krivsky added to the second-base jam by trading for Phillips.

Phillips, 24, went 2-for-5 with three RBI in the Reds' 9-8 win Wednesday. He had seven RBI in the three-game series.

Talk among scouts is that Womack will be released when Ken Griffey Jr. comes off the disabled list April 28.

Womack makes $2 million this year, but the New York Yankees are paying $900,000 of that.

Krivsky expects Womack to contribute as long as he's on the club.

"He's a pro," Krivsky said. "Tony knows he's got to stay ready. He's professional. He works hard. He wants to play. He works as hard as anyone we have."

E-mail jfay@enquirer.com

http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060420/SPT04/604200348/1071

E. Davis 44
04-20-2006, 07:40 AM
gitty up!

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 07:50 AM
He's a valuable guy.

:laugh:

RedFanAlways1966
04-20-2006, 07:54 AM
Well, well... this took 15 games into the season to get started. Tony wants traded. Can the REDS get a bag of used balls for him?

Who is the person responsible for signing this guy? That perosn should be out of a job. Oh...

Strikes Out Looking
04-20-2006, 08:01 AM
Our long national nightmare may soon be over...

Buckeye33
04-20-2006, 08:03 AM
Damn, I'm a SOOOOOOOO upset that Mr. Womack may want to be traded.

Goodbye Womack, Hello Denorfia.

Raisor
04-20-2006, 08:13 AM
Womack, 36, is hitting .250 with three RBI. He's coming off a season in which he hit .249 with a .276 on-base percentage. So there's a good chance that there's no trade market for him.


unless you're Dan O'Brien.


It was stupid to trade for him, and it's been stupid to keep him around.

klw
04-20-2006, 08:34 AM
Player POS G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG OPS E

Kevin Howard 2B 13 49 4 12 2 0 2 6 20 2 10 0 0 .288 .408 .245 .697 0


Kevin Howard of the Trenton Thunder says hello

Raisor
04-20-2006, 08:37 AM
Kevin Howard of the Trenton Thunder says hello


I really hope you're not implying that because Howard is sucking it up in Trenton that it was a good trade.

Trading ANYTHING for Womack was a mistake. If Womack had been a free agent it would have been a mistake to sign him.

Having Womack on the roster is a mistake, period.

TOBTTReds
04-20-2006, 08:42 AM
unless you're Dan O'Brien.


It was stupid to trade for him, and it's been stupid to keep him around.

I was about to say the same thing...had that line copied too, ready to paste. I'm glad he gave up two players for someone who was worth nothing.

smith288
04-20-2006, 08:42 AM
Womack seeks trade?

Does this guy realize O'Brien is no longer a GM in the MLB anymore. He can forget it.

redsmetz
04-20-2006, 08:52 AM
Womack, 36, is hitting .250 with three RBI. He's coming off a season in which he hit .249 with a .276 on-base percentage. So there's a good chance that there's no trade market for him.

Was it on this board that someone quoted a Yankees fan who asked if the two players the Reds sent were alive, but that if they weren't, it wasn't a dealbreaker? This trade never made sense.

As for Krivsky saying Womack is a valuable player, I believe he's being diplomatic. He knows he's still got this guy and needs him to be useful while he's still here. I don't think it helps to denigrate him, particularly if you're trying to move him and some (or all) of his salary that we're stuck for.

membengal
04-20-2006, 08:53 AM
Ah, the happy day when the cries of a fanbase line up with the cries of a player.

Time to accomodate both, if not a trade then a release.

Dunner44
04-20-2006, 08:56 AM
Damn, I'm a SOOOOOOOO upset that Mr. Womack may want to be traded.

Goodbye Womack, Hello Denorfia.

More like hello Griffey. Tony will still be a clubroom cancer until Grif is off the 15 day DL. Then poof, hes gone. Need i say DFA?

flyer85
04-20-2006, 08:58 AM
[subliminal message]

Repeat after me, the Mets needs Tony Womack

[end subliminal message]

Please send Heath Bell for him, we would all be pleased.

Heath
04-20-2006, 09:03 AM
[subliminal message]

Repeat after me, the Mets needs Tony Womack

[end subliminal message]

Please send Heath Bell for him, we would all be pleased.

That would be so cool on so many different levels.

Unless that player with the cool first name sucked badly.

Heath
04-20-2006, 09:06 AM
2 Million Dollars for Tony Womack.

Dear Bud Selig,

The above is a good example of how out-of-whack baseball economics has evolved.

Try a salary cap.

Sincerely,
Baseball Fans.

flyer85
04-20-2006, 09:08 AM
Try a salary cap.
Or at least a permanent ban for the GM that was stupid enough to trade for him.

StillFunkyB
04-20-2006, 09:11 AM
Was it on this board that someone quoted a Yankees fan who asked if the two players the Reds sent were alive, but that if they weren't, it wasn't a dealbreaker? This trade never made sense.

As for Krivsky saying Womack is a valuable player, I believe he's being diplomatic. He knows he's still got this guy and needs him to be useful while he's still here. I don't think it helps to denigrate him, particularly if you're trying to move him and some (or all) of his salary that we're stuck for.

Yeah, that was funny stuff.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 09:12 AM
Remember, asking for a trade doesn't necessarily mean one will happen.

StillFunkyB
04-20-2006, 09:13 AM
How about we trade him to Milwaukee for just some 4876th round draft pick in Low, Low A ball.

I think Karma owes us one. ;)

wolfboy
04-20-2006, 09:32 AM
Was it on this board that someone quoted a Yankees fan who asked if the two players the Reds sent were alive, but that if they weren't, it wasn't a dealbreaker? This trade never made sense.

As for Krivsky saying Womack is a valuable player, I believe he's being diplomatic. He knows he's still got this guy and needs him to be useful while he's still here. I don't think it helps to denigrate him, particularly if you're trying to move him and some (or all) of his salary that we're stuck for.

My sig. It's from the Yankees board I frequent. I'll probably change it when Womack is released. He won't be traded. There is no way someone would make that colossal mistake. Well, aside from DanO.

Gallen5862
04-20-2006, 10:01 AM
See if we can Trade Womack to the Indians as the player to be named in the Phillips deal. I know its a long shot but worth a try.:) :D

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2006, 10:04 AM
There are several teams I can think of that could use Tony Womack: KC T-Bones, Winnepeg Goldeneyes, Joliet Jackhammers, the Swedish national baseball team, my niece's T-ball team...

TRF
04-20-2006, 10:08 AM
Why would you want to tank your niece's t-ball team?

Heath
04-20-2006, 10:09 AM
Maybe Andy Furman can have him for the Richmond Roosters -

Oh wait, my bad - they are gone.

pedro
04-20-2006, 10:09 AM
If Womack asks for his release do the Reds still have to pay him?

westofyou
04-20-2006, 10:13 AM
If Womack asks for his release do the Reds still have to pay him?
Not if he asks for it, but his agent would advise against it unless the Reds let him sniff the market.

But IMO that dog won't hunt... I stand by my statement that I made the day the Reds got him, he'll cut his own throat with his play.

flyer85
04-20-2006, 10:18 AM
If Womack asks for his release do the Reds still have to pay him?yes, the players union will never let anyone step away from a contract unless they retire. It is a precedent they would not allow to be set.

registerthis
04-20-2006, 10:22 AM
yes, the players union will never let anyone step away from a contract unless they retire. It is a precedent they would not allow to be set.

But a player asking to be released has said that he does not want to play for his current team. If he, indeed, refuses to play, then the Reds could disqualify him, release him, and not pay him. A contract is a two way street, regardless of what the Players Union may want to believe.

deltachi8
04-20-2006, 10:28 AM
I think what Flyer means is that the MLPA will not allow Womack to ask for his release. And, as WOY pointed out, his agent certainly will advise against it.

REDREAD
04-20-2006, 10:31 AM
Womack isn't going to ask for his release and forfeit 2 million dollars.

And the article was trying to spin Womack's quote. It's a trick sportswriters do with everyone on the bench..

"Are you happy with being benched".. Of course any player will say no.

"Would you like a trade where you could get more playing time".. Of course any player would say yes.

To answer differently to any of those questions would make the player look pretty stupid (ie. to declare you like being on the bench, and you wouldn't want a trade that got you more playing time).

redsmetz
04-20-2006, 10:40 AM
Womack isn't going to ask for his release and forfeit 2 million dollars.

And the article was trying to spin Womack's quote. It's a trick sportswriters do with everyone on the bench..

"Are you happy with being benched".. Of course any player will say no.

"Would you like a trade where you could get more playing time".. Of course any player would say yes.

To answer differently to any of those questions would make the player look pretty stupid (ie. to declare you like being on the bench, and you wouldn't want a trade that got you more playing time).

But you're forgetting the Chico Ruiz players of the world. It was Ruiz who issued the ultimatum "Bench me or Trade me" to the Reds.

flyer85
04-20-2006, 10:47 AM
But a player asking to be released has said that he does not want to play for his current team. The money is guaranteed. It is not at the discretion of the player to release a team from their obligation to pay without union approval.(Thats what killed the Arod to Bosox trade, the union would not approve an actual reduction in the value of Arods contract).



If he, indeed, refuses to play, then the Reds could disqualify him, release him, and not pay him. in that case they could attempt to void his contract.

Most contracts have a morals clause as well and some teams have attempted to void contracts this way(Neagle/Rockies and Ponson/Orioles).

guttle11
04-20-2006, 10:48 AM
I'll miss that guy.

pedro
04-20-2006, 10:53 AM
Players do ask for their release from time to time though and I can't imagine that teams pay them when they do. Although TTBOMK, it's really only when a fringe player is sent to the minors.

hmmm.. I wonder if Tony has options left?

registerthis
04-20-2006, 10:55 AM
in that case they could attempt to void his contract.

Which is how I interpreted it. If a player asks to be released, and subsequently refuses to play, the Reds could be void his contract. it's what the Nats wanted to do with Soriano if he had continued to refuse to play the position they wanted him to.

All of this is moot, of course, since there's no way Womack would do this and forsake $2 million.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 11:02 AM
In 2004 Womack hit over .300. He was 7th last year in stolen bases despite barely playing 100 games. His lifetime average is around .270. He can play 5 positions, not well but he can play them. He's not a bad player. The Reds just had no business trading for him when they had Freel.

scounts22
04-20-2006, 11:02 AM
Remember, asking for a trade doesn't necessarily mean one will happen.

:pray: :pray: :pray:


Why would you want to tank your niece's t-ball team

:ughmamoru

OldXOhio
04-20-2006, 11:04 AM
The Reds just had no business trading for him when they had Freel.

Of the statements in your post, this is the only one that matters.

Doc. Scott
04-20-2006, 11:15 AM
(snif) I'm so crushed that T-Woe doesn't feel the playing time allotted to him is up to his high standards.

Crushed.

(snif)

Johnny Footstool
04-20-2006, 11:17 AM
Why would you want to tank your niece's t-ball team?

They're not really scrappy, and they need someone who can bunt.

Doc. Scott
04-20-2006, 11:23 AM
Although, in fairness, Jerry Narron missed another obvious opportunity to use Womack as a pinch-runner yesterday (in the ninth). That's the second time that I can personally recall, and I'm sure there are others.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 11:24 AM
Tony Womack isn't the type of player that you trade, he is the type of player that you release. A few years ago, the Cardinals did trade Matt Duff for him. Duff was a minor league journeyman reliever though, that likely will never pitch in the Major Leagues again. If the Reds do trade Womack, they won't get anything for him. Just release him if you don't want him.

MrCinatit
04-20-2006, 11:25 AM
Here is the full quote by Wayne K, in case you missed it:



"He's a pro," Krivsky said. "Tony knows he's got to stay ready. He's professional. He works hard. He wants to play. He works as hard as anyone we have. He tries. He is working to improve himself. I mean, there are things he could improve on, but he is working on it. Sure, he is subpar in some aspects. There are areas he could use improvement. He's not the best second baseman in the league, that is for sure. Not even the second-best. Not even close. But, he works hard. Okay, there are some glaring weaknesses in his game - his fielding, his hitting, his range, his arm - but his legs...well...they've been better. But he is trying. Okay, he flat out sucks. Dan, you piece of...I mean, what were you THINKING!?! Tony Womack?? Come on! You would have to have a railroad spike in your brain to think Tony Womack was going to help this ballclub."

klw
04-20-2006, 11:25 AM
I really hope you're not implying that because Howard is sucking it up in Trenton that it was a good trade.

Trading ANYTHING for Womack was a mistake. If Womack had been a free agent it would have been a mistake to sign him.

Having Womack on the roster is a mistake, period.

No I wasn't trying to comment at all. I hadn't seen anything about how Howard was doing so I thought I would post the info.

Guacarock
04-20-2006, 11:29 AM
The Reds might find a taker for Womack if they:

A. Follow the example of the Yankees and pick up a chunk of his contract.

or

B. Take some other team's overpriced vet in return -- Maybe a halfway reliable relief pitcher with a bloated salary.

Womack is, in fact, a decent enough bench option. Just not for the Reds (with Freel on board) or for any team at $2 million.

Gallen5862
04-20-2006, 11:33 AM
Try to get the Indians to accept Womack as the player to be named in the Phillips deal. Thats a long shot but worth a shot.:)

pedro
04-20-2006, 11:34 AM
Although, in fairness, Jerry Narron missed another obvious opportunity to use Womack as a pinch-runner yesterday (in the ninth). That's the second time that I can personally recall, and I'm sure there are others.

I was thinking the same thing. This might be a good occasion to actually use womack.

westofyou
04-20-2006, 11:35 AM
Although, in fairness, Jerry Narron missed another obvious opportunity to use Womack as a pinch-runner yesterday (in the ninth). That's the second time that I can personally recall, and I'm sure there are others.
Maybe he was in the clubhouse watching Dr Phil?

TRF
04-20-2006, 11:37 AM
In 2004 Womack hit over .300. He was 7th last year in stolen bases despite barely playing 100 games. His lifetime average is around .270. He can play 5 positions, not well but he can play them. He's not a bad player. The Reds just had no business trading for him when they had Freel.

uggg.

Tony Womack is described as a "leadoff hitter" by Tony Womack.

Except he couldn't find 1B with a map, has openly said he will NOT play any position but 2B (this year in fact) and is weak defensively.

but other than the fact that he can't hit, can't walk, and can't field, he's a fine ballplayer.

BTW I just PM'd you. When are you coming up to Amarillo again?

pedro
04-20-2006, 11:37 AM
Maybe he was in the clubhouse watching Dr Phil?

I bet he's more of an Oprah guy.

corkedbat
04-20-2006, 11:56 AM
I'd give someone Dave Williams if they'd take Tony Womack. :D

Chip R
04-20-2006, 12:00 PM
Maybe Andy Furman can have him for the Richmond Roosters -

Oh wait, my bad - they are gone.

Are they? I thought I heard a rumor about that. :( That's where I played my 1st vintage base ball game. They treated us real nice there.

reds2221
04-20-2006, 12:01 PM
I'd give someone Dave Williams if they'd take Tony Womack. :D
most people would.

redsmetz
04-20-2006, 12:04 PM
Tony Womack isn't the type of player that you trade, he is the type of player that you release. A few years ago, the Cardinals did trade Matt Duff for him. Duff was a minor league journeyman reliever though, that likely will never pitch in the Major Leagues again. If the Reds do trade Womack, they won't get anything for him. Just release him if you don't want him.

Maybe we can trade him for Matt Duff, now on Syracuse's roster. Last year he was 5-0 with a 3.51 ERA, 28 K's, in 25.2 innings in 15 games. Maybe a middle reliever. :D

Chip R
04-20-2006, 12:08 PM
Maybe we can trade him for Matt Duff, now on Syracuse's roster. Last year he was 5-0 with a 3.51 ERA, 28 K's, in 25.2 innings in 15 games. Maybe a middle reliever. :D

I'd sure trade Womack for a Duff. Mmmmmmmm, Duff.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 12:16 PM
uggg.

Tony Womack is described as a "leadoff hitter" by Tony Womack.

Except he couldn't find 1B with a map, has openly said he will NOT play any position but 2B (this year in fact) and is weak defensively.

but other than the fact that he can't hit, can't walk, and can't field, he's a fine ballplayer.

BTW I just PM'd you. When are you coming up to Amarillo again?

I never said he was great or even good. The guy did lead the league in stolen bases a few times though. His career stats aren't bad. He's got some speed and...ok ok he sucks now I know. But he hit. 307 in 2004. Oops! That's right I must remember OBP OBP OBP. His OBP was .349 in 2004.

pedro
04-20-2006, 12:17 PM
I never said he was great or even good. The guy did lead the league in stolen bases a few times though. His career stats aren't bad. He's got some speed and...ok ok he sucks now I know. But he hit. 307 in 2004. Oops! That's right I must remember OBP OBP OBP. His OBP was .349 in 2004.

his career stats are HORRIBLE.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3000

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 12:25 PM
Maybe we can trade him for Matt Duff, now on Syracuse's roster. Last year he was 5-0 with a 3.51 ERA, 28 K's, in 25.2 innings in 15 games. Maybe a middle reliever. :D

Duff has always been a very good minor league relief pitcher, but that's it. He did pitch a few innings in the Majors for the Cardinals in 2002, but that was the only time he pitched in the Majors. Now he's a 30 year old minor league reliever. I'm surprised he's still pitching.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 12:26 PM
his career stats are HORRIBLE.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/players/stats?playerId=3000


With a .273 lifetime average and 362 career stolen bases? Horrible? No. Totally devoid of power? Yes. Impatient at the plate? Yes. Should he retire? Yes. But horrible? No. That would be Bob Uecker.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 12:29 PM
I never said he was great or even good. The guy did lead the league in stolen bases a few times though. His career stats aren't bad. He's got some speed and...ok ok he sucks now I know. But he hit. 307 in 2004. Oops! That's right I must remember OBP OBP OBP. His OBP was .349 in 2004.

This is the reason that Tony Womack is making $2Mil this year. He had one good year with the Cardinals, and the Yankees were tricked into thinking he was a good player. As soon as they found out the truth, they traded him. I just can't figure out why a team like the Reds would take a bloated contract that the Yankees don't even want.

TRF
04-20-2006, 12:30 PM
I never said he was great or even good. The guy did lead the league in stolen bases a few times though. His career stats aren't bad. He's got some speed and...ok ok he sucks now I know. But he hit. 307 in 2004. Oops! That's right I must remember OBP OBP OBP. His OBP was .349 in 2004.

That .349 is the high water mark for him

by comparison Freel's has never been that low in a season ha played in more than 100 games. Womack hasn't had a SB season as good as Freel in 6 years.

awful awful awful.

And for any player OBP is king. Freel's is a sick .526 right now. EE is at .397.

But to point out finally just how overrated BA is, Kearns is hitting almost 25 points higher than Dunn and has 2 fewer RBI's. Why? Because SLG is the driving force behind RBI's and Dunn's is 140 points higher even though he has 5 fewer hits. Dunn's OBP is also 100 points higher. Kearns is having an out standing start to the season, but Dunn is having an elite start.

pedro
04-20-2006, 12:36 PM
With a .273 lifetime average and 362 career stolen bases? Horrible? No. Totally devoid of power? Yes. Impatient at the plate? Yes. Should he retire? Yes. But horrible? No. That would be Bob Uecker.

.317 lifetime OBP and no power means you are horrible no matter how you look at it. Being able to steal bases is only attractive if you can actually get on base.

Handofdeath
04-20-2006, 01:17 PM
.317 lifetime OBP and no power means you are horrible no matter how you look at it. Being able to steal bases is only attractive if you can actually get on base.

When you're in the career top 100 in a major statistical category, you are not horrible. Womack is 7th among active players in stolen bases and 92nd all time. Horrible now? Maybe. Horrible over his career? Sorry, but no. You don't get to do that without getting on base at least a little.

pedro
04-20-2006, 01:20 PM
When you're in the career top 100 in a major statistical category, you are not horrible. Womack is 7th among active players in stolen bases and 92nd all time. Horrible now? Maybe. Horrible over his career? Sorry, but no. You don't get to do that without getting on base at least a little.


sure you do. if teams keep running you out there, which they have.

would he be the best ball player I ever knew if I knew him. Yup.

Is he a bad major leaguer who never should have gotten the chance to waste as many ab's as he has? absolutley.

Doc. Scott
04-20-2006, 01:21 PM
When you're in the career top 100 in a major statistical category, you are not horrible. Womack is 7th among active players in stolen bases and 92nd all time. Horrible now? Maybe. Horrible over his career? Sorry, but no. You don't get to do that without getting on base at least a little.

Just say "horrible as an everyday player, mediocre-to-adequate on the bench." Virtually all of us can agree with that.

westofyou
04-20-2006, 01:25 PM
Maybe. Horrible over his career? Sorry, but no. You don't get to do that without getting on base at least a little.

Or accumulating PA's or outs in Womacks case.

When he was cheap, when he could steal 50 a year and play better defense then he was worth it, but cost, diminished skills and such means he's getting paid for something he used to do and can't do anymore.


CAREER
1997-2001

RUNS CREATED/GAME vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria
STOLEN BASES vs. the league average displayed only--not a sorting criteria

OUTS OUTS AB PA RC/G SB
1 Ray Durham 2396 3106 3528 0.36 91
2 Garret Anderson 2383 3185 3365 -.16 -19
3 Doug Glanville 2317 3051 3300 -.60 74
4 Sammy Sosa 2312 3091 3544 3.03 -9
5 Omar Vizquel 2296 2939 3376 -.25 100
6 Tony Womack 2294 3008 3254 -.74 201
7 Johnny Damon 2262 2996 3354 0.55 94
8 Derek Jeter 2246 3114 3546 2.11 65
9 Edgar Renteria 2234 2774 3116 -1.15 87
10 Rafael Palmeiro 2223 2963 3467 2.53 -35

Chip R
04-20-2006, 01:35 PM
When you're in the career top 100 in a major statistical category, you are not horrible. Womack is 7th among active players in stolen bases and 92nd all time. Horrible now? Maybe. Horrible over his career? Sorry, but no. You don't get to do that without getting on base at least a little.

Just think how good would be if he had ever learned how to take a walk.

buckshotrod
04-20-2006, 02:47 PM
What I would like to know is this. In a game vs the Cards, Narron pinch hit for Womack. The camera caught a glimpse of Tony down the steps and heading back to the clubhouse and he seemed to be in a slight huff. After he Reds won, we tried to see if we could find Tony out there congratulating the team but could not find him although we did not see everyone. Did he in fact disappear and go back and sulk? Just curious.

KronoRed
04-20-2006, 02:49 PM
Someone in one of the game threads mentioned that, interesting the local writers wouldn't have picked up on it.

Womack is impossible to trade, last year he was the worst player with enough at bats to qualify for the race, we should release him outright.

Heath
04-20-2006, 03:02 PM
Are they? I thought I heard a rumor about that. :( That's where I played my 1st vintage base ball game. They treated us real nice there.

The Roosters would get about 600-1000 per evening to Don McBride Stadium. The seats were way behind the action - it seemed like you were always a pole.

Great ticket prices and concessions. Beer was usually good for independant ball - nice and cold. I could take my boys and they would absolutely love it that a ballplayer in his uniform would sign autographs or talk to them. The GM of the club was also the ticket taker. My kids under 5 were free.

The team moved to Traverse City, Michigan for this year. There's talk that Richmond may get the Roosters back. McBride Stadium went under some serious renovations this past year.

Chip - that vintage ball has always piqued my interest. At somepoint I'd like to hear about getting to play on one of those teams. But my kids are still small.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 03:46 PM
Chip - that vintage ball has always piqued my interest. At somepoint I'd like to hear about getting to play on one of those teams. But my kids are still small.

Dayton has a team who plays up at Carriage Hill Farms. They are very good and usually don't take newcomers. Your best bet would be Springfield. I don't know how old your kids are but we have guys who bring their toddlers to games. Mom's usually with them and it's only a couple of hours on the weekend depending on how much or little you want to play.

reds44
04-20-2006, 06:55 PM
So basically if Tony doesn't play everyday he is going to want to be traded no matter where he goes.

He needs to come to the realization that he isn't an everyday player anymore.

buckshotrod
04-20-2006, 09:39 PM
Another good reason to unload this mistake. He just pinch hit..struck out on a dropped thrid strike (missed it by a foot) and the lazy a#@ did not even run. He needs to disapear pronto!!!!!:thumbdown

Big Klu
04-21-2006, 12:04 AM
He's just marking time until next Friday, when Griffey is activated.