PDA

View Full Version : Rocket Could Become a Red



NatiRedGals
04-20-2006, 01:12 PM
:eek: listening to Homer this morning and discussion was about Rocket being in Lexington, and his son Koby plays for Legends and since he is a Free Agent that Reds should go after him. Thinking about situation you would think Clemons would give it a thought? Richard Skinner says that Griffey Jr suggested as an idea for Castellini to go after Roger on May 1st....The buzz would be in Cincy if that happen, might cost him a few apples....10-12 million. Would it be worth it? If Paul Wilson can come back and be a 5th Starter, we could trade our excess 2b/C situation for a good decent relievers...Some ot these other teams setup men are better than our closers...

RBA
04-20-2006, 01:15 PM
I'd take a look at. If it just drives the price up for Houston to pay, I'm for it.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 01:15 PM
10-12 million? Didnt Clemens make like 18 million last season? I dont see him coming here for anything less than 15 million, and I dont think its worth it if that is what you have to pay him.

NatiRedGals
04-20-2006, 01:16 PM
Well its a thought and ya what RBA said if it drives the price up for Huston we should lol ethier way D-Train is the easier route to go

pedro
04-20-2006, 01:16 PM
I'd love it, but I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

My money is on the Red Sox

M2
04-20-2006, 01:19 PM
Clemens has already made it clear that he's got a short list of clubs for whom he would be willing to pitch ... and the Reds are not on that list.

Unassisted
04-20-2006, 01:20 PM
I don't see Castellini opening the wallet that far for a one-year rental. Especially not before getting a sense of how this team will do against traditional contenders.

I also don't think The Rocket will be willing to stray that far from the Lone Star State.

This sounds less like informed speculation and more like talk-radio fodder that is designed to inspire listeners to call in.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 01:22 PM
I'd love it, but I seriously doubt that would ever happen.

My money is on the Red Sox

I agree but I think he will either go back to HOU or the Yankees.

I think it's a good opportunity for Bob to get some good will. He can say he tried to get him but Clemens wanted to play where they had the best chance for a championship. And, like RBA said, it drives the price up for a team like HOU which may make Clemens' agents grateful to Bob. Bob can always say they tried. The fans will believe thats more than Lindner ever did.

macro
04-20-2006, 01:26 PM
The fact that a couple of radio guys opined that the Reds should go for him doesn't increase the likelihood of it happening in any way, so I think the title of the thread is misleading. I guess talking about it makes for good radio, though.

MartyFan
04-20-2006, 01:26 PM
If the Rocket didn't play for the team before, he isn't going to close his career there...the Reds, Rangers, etc...no chance.

My money is on Houston but I could see him playing for Boston to mend the fence between he and the fans.

Blimpie
04-20-2006, 01:28 PM
The Rocket was in town for a few days last week when the Legends opened their home season. He did a few local interviews and, of course, had nothing to offer in the way of a decision. When one of the local writers mentioned (in jest) about the Reds need for starting pitching, Clemens almost wet himself with laughter...at least that what the evening news sportscaster relayed.

Really, Clemens has just been taking a little time to watch his son play and has offered to pitch a little BP to the team in the coming days/weeks. I don't see this being anything more than him taking a little R & R while he has time to do so.

I, too, feel that he will eventually land with either NY of Boston. It will be interesting to see if the Red Sox grant him his "stay at home when you don't pitch" clause...however, there's no way that the Yanks go for it IMO.

NatiRedGals
04-20-2006, 01:28 PM
well people will do anything to get closer to their family and he and his son have a great relationship thats why it could happen

redsmetz
04-20-2006, 01:35 PM
well people will do anything to get closer to their family and he and his son have a great relationship thats why it could happen

The thought has crossed my mind in a dreaming sort of way and that's before I knew his son was playing for the Legends. I'm curious as to why Clemens is looking for the giant contract. He's made a gazillion dollars. Now back to dreaming, maybe he thinks the Reds have the full season Houston schedule to play (7 games there?) plus he's 80 miles from his son, he works a sweetheart deal about being with the team (ala Houston's arrangement last year) and suddenly it works.

Will it? No, but we can dream, right?

:p:

Joseph
04-20-2006, 01:38 PM
Being closer to Koby as he becomes a pro is the only reason Clemens might even let the notion enter his mind. He would have to believe he could be the difference in the Reds being a contender or not for this to even have any legs at all, and he just isn't at this point. At least not IMO. We'd need two or three of him.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2006, 01:40 PM
I guarantee that if the Reds outbid the other suitors, he'd quit laughing and probably accept the offer.

But no way would I get in a bidding war for a 43 (?) year old man.

HotCorner
04-20-2006, 01:42 PM
If this team is in the thick of come May, this would be a great idea. Whether or not Clemens would seriously consider the Reds is another debate. Here are the reasons why is makes sense:

1. Gives Castellini and new ownership immediate credibility with players and fans. The Reds would now be seen as a place where ownership will do what it takes to win - a nice drawing card for free agents.

2. Revenue generated from his signing (tickets, merchandise, etc) would probably pay for a large chunk of his salary.

3. Proximity of Lexington to Cincinnati. A quick drive or use of the owner's private jet would be a major perk.

4. Fills the biggest need for Reds.

corkedbat
04-20-2006, 01:49 PM
If this team were within 1 starter of serious contention, I'd consider a 1yr. deal. Until this bullpen is fixed (at the very least) they are no where near being serious contenders.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 01:54 PM
If this team is in the thick of come May, this would be a great idea. Whether or not Clemens would seriously consider the Reds is another debate. Here are the reasons why is makes sense:

2. Revenue generated from his signing (tickets, merchandise, etc) would probably pay for a large chunk of his salary.


I'm not sure this would be that big of a deal. He would pitch only 1 of every 5 days - and that's just at home. That would be the day the fans would sell the place out. The other 4, not so much. He probably would increase merchandise revenue but we'd still only get 1/30 of a cut from that. It would be a decent windfall but probably wouldn't pay for his salary even on a prorated basis.

LincolnparkRed
04-20-2006, 01:55 PM
I wouldn't do it for more than $8 million. He did pitch in the WBC but it would still be a few weeks until he was ready. So you are talking the middle of May plus he is 43 so you really have no idea what you are getting.

klw
04-20-2006, 02:01 PM
If this team were within 1 starter of serious contention, I'd consider a 1yr. deal. Until this bullpen is fixed (at the very least) they are no where near being serious contenders.


Maybe the Reds can then talk Jeff Shaw into coming out of retirement to save the pen.:D :D :D ;)

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:04 PM
If the Reds can sign Clemens...then they NEED to do it. He may be 43, but looked at the way he pitched when he was 42. Clemens is a great pitcher, and we aren't talking a long term contract here. Clemens could possibly make the Reds a contender this year. Not to mention the increase in ticket sales that it would generate. Reds tickets would be a lot harder to get if Clemens was in town. It would be a great PR move, and make the team a lot better. Having said that, I would be shocked if it ever happened.

Red Leader
04-20-2006, 02:04 PM
Maybe the Reds can then talk Jeff Shaw into coming out of retirement to save the pen.:D :D :D ;)

We could probably get him on the cheap.

He's from Ohio, you know, so I bet he'd sign for less to play for the Reds.

M2
04-20-2006, 02:06 PM
If the Reds can sign Clemens...then they NEED to do it. He may be 43, but looked at the way he pitched when he was 42. Clemens is a great pitcher, and we aren't talking a long term contract here. Clemens could possibly make the Reds a contender this year. Not to mention the increase in ticket sales that it would generate. Reds tickets would be a lot harder to get if Clemens was in town. It would be a great PR move, and make the team a lot better. Having said that, I would be shocked if it ever happened.

In fact, if a sleeper team in the NL Central were to swoop in and land Clemens it most likely would be the Cardinals. There's a club with money and in the championship picture.

klw
04-20-2006, 02:07 PM
We could probably get him on the cheap.

He's from Ohio, you know, so I bet he'd sign for less to play for the Reds.


And he's well rested- or he should be.

CTA513
04-20-2006, 02:08 PM
In fact, if a sleeper team in the NL Central were to swoop in and land Clemens it most likely would be the Cardinals. There's a club with money and in the championship picture.

The Reds announcers made it seem like they didnt have a whole lot of money to put out after building the stadium.

M2
04-20-2006, 02:11 PM
The Reds announcers made it seem like they didnt have a whole lot of money to put out after building the stadium.

I'm not buying that. First division team banging out a brand new ballpark on a nightly basis? There's money in them there coffers.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:12 PM
In fact, if a sleeper team in the NL Central were to swoop in and land Clemens it most likely would be the Cardinals. There's a club with money and in the championship picture.

I'd love to see Clemens wearing the birds on the bat. In any other year, I would agree that they would be the team to do it. I just don't see it happening this year. The Cardinals have both Wainwright and Reyes itching to get a shot at the rotation this year.

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2006, 02:15 PM
Clemens has already made it clear that he's got a short list of clubs for whom he would be willing to pitch ... and the Reds are not on that list.

Not that I think this would ever happen in a billion years (but it's fun to dream), but what if the Reds signed Clemens with the understanding that if they were out of the hunt, they'd deal him to Boston before the deadline.

That's a win-win situation from where i sit:
* The Reds get Clemens (amazing pitching, ticket sales when he pitches, merchandise sales of Clemens t-shirts and jersies) for at least half a season
* Clemens gets to spend time close to his son in Lexington
* If the Reds make a run, Clemens is a part of that
* If the Reds can't make a run, Clemens goes someplace where he can make an impact
* The Reds get some kind of prospect back in return for Clemens

I'd love to see it happen for the selfish reason of getting to see Clemens pitch more often (I've only seen him pitch 1 time in person), but I know he'd still have to turn games over to the awful pen and get more than his share of N/Ds and not really help the team as much as it would take to put them over the top.

Reds Fanatic
04-20-2006, 02:16 PM
Clemens has said he only wants to go to a team with a serious chance at making the postseason this year. One look at our bullpen and I don't think he will be signing with the Reds.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:16 PM
The Reds announcers made it seem like they didnt have a whole lot of money to put out after building the stadium.

The Cardinals sold 3Million tickets before they even went on sale to the public. Then the rest of the tickets were sold out a few hours after they went public. If you want to go to a Cardinal game...you can get standing room only tickets. The Cardinals just announced a special deal today where you can go to the ticket office at 9:00am and buy a voucher for two tickets. Then 10 minutes before the game they will give you whatever is left...it might be a seat or it might be standing room only. People will do this because they have no other choice unless they want to buy the $100 Outfield party room seats. The Cardinals are making a ton on ticket sales. I don't believe they are hurting at all.

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2006, 02:19 PM
The Cardinals sold 3Million tickets before they even went on sale to the public. Then the rest of the tickets were sold out a few hours after they went public. If you want to go to a Cardinal game...you can get standing room only tickets. The Cardinals just announced a special deal today where you can go to the ticket office at 9:00am and buy a voucher for two tickets. Then 10 minutes before the game they will give you whatever is left...it might be a seat or it might be standing room only. People will do this because they have no other choice unless they want to buy the $100 Outfield party room seats. The Cardinals are making a ton on ticket sales. I don't believe they are hurting at all.

Amazing what happens when you open a brand new ballpark with a great product on the field already, as opposed to counting on fans to get excited about seeing a new structure more than the team playing.

Me = Franchise Envy.

Falls City Beer
04-20-2006, 02:22 PM
The Cardinals sold 3Million tickets before they even went on sale to the public. Then the rest of the tickets were sold out a few hours after they went public. If you want to go to a Cardinal game...you can get standing room only tickets. The Cardinals just announced a special deal today where you can go to the ticket office at 9:00am and buy a voucher for two tickets. Then 10 minutes before the game they will give you whatever is left...it might be a seat or it might be standing room only. People will do this because they have no other choice unless they want to buy the $100 Outfield party room seats. The Cardinals are making a ton on ticket sales. I don't believe they are hurting at all.

I agree the Cardinals are doing well. But I'm not sure it's the same thing as saying that the Cards can shoot their payroll over the 105 million mark this season, which is what it would be. And the Cardinals middle relief is barely, and I do mean barely, better than the Reds'. And Izzy's looking questionable too (though I'm sure he'll work out the kinks sooner or later).

I think the Cardinals are much closer to scraping their payroll ceiling than the Reds, strangely enough. I think you'll see the Reds' payroll expand next season to a much greater degree than the Cards.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:26 PM
I think the Cardinals are much closer to scraping their payroll ceiling than the Reds, strangely enough. I think you'll see the Reds' payroll expand next season to a much greater degree than the Cards.

There is no reason why the Reds don't have a payroll similar to the Cardinals payroll now. Both cities are very similar in size. The Reds have the benefit of the taxpayers paying for their ballpark which is a luxury the Cardinals don't have. I would hope the Reds expand their payroll more than the Cardinals do next year. I don't know if it will happen, but it should happen. There is a difference between ability to spend and willingness to spend.

George Foster
04-20-2006, 02:30 PM
The Cardinals sold 3Million tickets before they even went on sale to the public. Then the rest of the tickets were sold out a few hours after they went public. If you want to go to a Cardinal game...you can get standing room only tickets. The Cardinals just announced a special deal today where you can go to the ticket office at 9:00am and buy a voucher for two tickets. Then 10 minutes before the game they will give you whatever is left...it might be a seat or it might be standing room only. People will do this because they have no other choice unless they want to buy the $100 Outfield party room seats. The Cardinals are making a ton on ticket sales. I don't believe they are hurting at all.

I don't agree, this stadium was built with private money from the owners and sponsors. They want to get their money back ASAP. If you just bought a new house, you probobly don't have a lot of spare cash. Thats why Reggie Sanders went to KC, they outbid St. Louis who really wanted him back.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 02:33 PM
There is no reason why the Reds don't have a payroll similar to the Cardinals payroll now. Both cities are very similar in size. The Reds have the benefit of the taxpayers paying for their ballpark which is a luxury the Cardinals don't have.

Actually there is a reason. The Cards have drawn way better than the Reds since the 80s. I can't remember how many times the Cards have drawn 3M people. The Reds have never drawn 3M They have only drawn above 2.5M a couple of times and one of those was 30 years ago.

PuffyPig
04-20-2006, 02:34 PM
But no way would I get in a bidding war for a 43 (?) year old man.

Querey????

Would you get into a bidding war for an 18 year old girl???

Escpecially one with "Rockets".

traderumor
04-20-2006, 02:37 PM
The Cincy/St. Looie "same market" myth again?

PuffyPig
04-20-2006, 02:37 PM
I'd love to see Clemens wearing the birds on the bat. In any other year, I would agree that they would be the team to do it. I just don't see it happening this year. The Cardinals have both Wainwright and Reyes itching to get a shot at the rotation this year.

Somehow I don't think the presence of a couple of itchy rookies would give Tony Larussa even a second to consider whether he'd want Roger Clemens to lead his charges into the playoffs.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:42 PM
I can't remember how many times the Cards have drawn 3M people. The Reds have never drawn 3M They have only drawn above 2.5M a couple of times and one of those was 30 years ago.

There is a reason for that. What do you think it is?

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2006, 02:49 PM
There is a reason for that. What do you think it is?

The evil, mind-controlling powers of Kurt Warner's wife?

http://media.scout.com/Media/Other/157496_brendaGateTwo.jpg.JPG

2001MUgrad
04-20-2006, 02:50 PM
That would be awesome. But, I'd say he will either play within the state of Texas or go to NY or Bos.

But, could you imagine the morale boost that would give the guys to have a signing like that?

PuffyPig
04-20-2006, 02:54 PM
There is a reason for that. What do you think it is?

It's certainly not winning the World Series.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 02:58 PM
It's certainly not winning the World Series.

It isn't market size either.

Hap
04-20-2006, 03:01 PM
I have some ocean-front property for sale in Northwest Ohio near the Mississippi Delta.

deltachi8
04-20-2006, 03:33 PM
If Rocket becomes a red, i'll buy a round of rootbeer floats for the board.

Chip R
04-20-2006, 03:36 PM
There is a reason for that. What do you think it is?

Well, I know what it is but the difference is still there.

KronoRed
04-20-2006, 03:47 PM
It's the arch.

It beacons the pods.

MattyHo4Life
04-20-2006, 03:49 PM
Well, I know what it is but the difference is still there.

The difference is the ownership. It is how they market the team and how they treat their fans. That is something that can be changed. It's things like investing in the team instead of making excuses. Things like broadcasting every game on television so that every fan in the area with cable can watch the games. The Reds can easily draw as many fans as the Cardinals do. The team history is there and the fan base is there. Just look at this forum. This is the most active team forum that I have ever seen. Field a competetive team year after year and the Reds will draw 3Mil fans a year. The past Reds ownerships have just been really good at convincing fans that Cincinnati is a small market team and will never be more than that. That's the big difference as I see it.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 04:21 PM
Somehow I don't think the presence of a couple of itchy rookies would give Tony Larussa even a second to consider whether he'd want Roger Clemens to lead his charges into the playoffs.You think they're itchy now, wait till Rocket tells them about the ICY/HOT pregame preparation ritual. They'll wish for itchy.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 04:26 PM
The difference is the ownership. It is how they market the team and how they treat their fans. That is something that can be changed. It's things like investing in the team instead of making excuses. Things like broadcasting every game on television so that every fan in the area with cable can watch the games. The Reds can easily draw as many fans as the Cardinals do. The team history is there and the fan base is there. Just look at this forum. This is the most active team forum that I have ever seen. Field a competetive team year after year and the Reds will draw 3Mil fans a year. The past Reds ownerships have just been really good at convincing fans that Cincinnati is a small market team and will never be more than that. That's the big difference as I see it.MM, here we are agreeing again, although one thing that has been adequately shown is that there is a bit of a different attitude and always has been between Cincy and Cards fans. Cards fans generally have always attended, even in down cycles, while Reds fans only came out in droves for the BRM. Otherwise, Cincy is a hard sell attendance wise and is very skeptical before coming on board. I would say the new owners have a heckuva sales job ahead of them, but like the example of the Bengals show, give Cincy fans a winner and there is plenty of support to be had.

They can quit with the excuses, esp. the small market excuses, which I've said myself for quite some time.

beb30
04-20-2006, 04:41 PM
If Rocket becomes a red, i'll buy a round of rootbeer floats for the board.

I'm holding you too that;)

HalMorrisRules
04-20-2006, 04:43 PM
I will go on the record and say I dont think there is a chance in this world that Roger would pitch for the Reds, but like RTL mentioned he is from here and he still has lots of family here. One of his cousins is one my family's oldest and dearest friends. Right after he started making a name for himself, I would root for him because of the connection with our friend. Over the years she has given me lots of autographed stuff from Roger and pictures of the two of them at family functions. That family connection still being here in this area would be one of the only things that I would ever imagine drawing him here to play.

redsmetz
04-20-2006, 05:21 PM
I will go on the record and say I dont think there is a chance in this world that Roger would pitch for the Reds, but like RTL mentioned he is from here and he still has lots of family here. One of his cousins is one my family's oldest and dearest friends. Right after he started making a name for himself, I would root for him because of the connection with our friend. Over the years she has given me lots of autographed stuff from Roger and pictures of the two of them at family functions. That family connection still being here in this area would be one of the only things that I would ever imagine drawing him here to play.

I had forgotten about Clemens originally being from Dayton. Sometimes you forget that players have relatives and old family friends. Tom Henke was my wife's second cousin and we hollered for him once while he was shagging flies here at Cincinnati. My wife finally called out "Hey Tom Henke, we're related" and he jogged over and chatted, autographed a ball for my son.

I went to grade school with Buddy Bell's sister and brother. I remember going over to their house and going to a park to toss a baseball. As you might expect, he had a Gus Bell model glove, which I thought was pretty cool. I didn't have anything with my dad's name on it! :)

Strikes Out Looking
04-20-2006, 06:43 PM
You had me at Rocket.

Astrobuddy
04-21-2006, 12:18 AM
If Clemens was going to sign with another team he would have already done it. He pitches in Houston or not at all. May 1st he signs or announces his retirement.

If Clemens doesnt retire, which he isnt....Clemens will sign with the only team that gives him a chance to play in a MLB game with his son. Koby will get a call-up this September and take the field in one of his Dads starts. Bank on it.

One other note... The Yankees and Boston cant give Clemens the deal the Astros can. Sleeping in his bed everynite with his wife and waking up with his other boys. Plus, there is that DH thing in the AL. Roger really likes hitting, plus he likes a low ERA. he gets both in the NL.

Then there is that whole 10 year deal he has with the Astros upon his retirement. It would be a media disaster for the Astros and Clemens if he signs with another team. Drayton and the Astros will give him whatever he wants to come back to the Astros. They will top any offer. I actually believe a deal is already in place.

kyred14
04-21-2006, 12:25 AM
If Clemens was going to sign with another team he would have already done it. He pitches in Houston or not at all. May 1st he signs or announces his retirement.

If Clemens doesnt retire, which he isnt....Clemens will sign with the only team that gives him a chance to play in a MLB game with his son. Koby will get a call-up this September and take the field in one of his Dads starts. Bank on it.

One other note... The Yankees and Boston cant give Clemens the deal the Astros can. Sleeping in his bed everynite with his wife and waking up with his other boys. Plus, there is that DH thing in the AL. Roger really likes hitting, plus he likes a low ERA. he gets both in the NL.

Then there is that whole 10 year deal he has with the Astros upon his retirement. It would be a media disaster for the Astros and Clemens if he signs with another team. Drayton and the Astros will give him whatever he wants to come back to the Astros. They will top any offer. I actually believe a deal is already in place.

I hope Koby doesn't think he's going to play LF. The 'stros already have Adam Dunn playing there, right. :evil:

Astrobuddy
04-21-2006, 12:29 AM
Boy, I had to know that was coming.

OnBaseMachine
04-21-2006, 07:56 AM
I hope Koby doesn't think he's going to play LF. The 'stros already have Adam Dunn playing there, right. :evil:

:laugh:

You beat me to it.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 10:35 AM
If Clemens was going to sign with another team he would have already done it. He pitches in Houston or not at all. May 1st he signs or announces his retirement.

If Clemens doesnt retire, which he isnt....Clemens will sign with the only team that gives him a chance to play in a MLB game with his son. Koby will get a call-up this September and take the field in one of his Dads starts. Bank on it.

One other note... The Yankees and Boston cant give Clemens the deal the Astros can. Sleeping in his bed everynite with his wife and waking up with his other boys. Plus, there is that DH thing in the AL. Roger really likes hitting, plus he likes a low ERA. he gets both in the NL.

Then there is that whole 10 year deal he has with the Astros upon his retirement. It would be a media disaster for the Astros and Clemens if he signs with another team. Drayton and the Astros will give him whatever he wants to come back to the Astros. They will top any offer. I actually believe a deal is already in place.The kid is batting .216 for a low A ballclub in the South Atlantic League. The only place he will be in late September will be the local swimming pool.

Astrobuddy
04-21-2006, 10:42 AM
Then you under-estimate the power of Roger Clemens and the fact that Drayton loves to make money.

The publicity stunt would be worth a few million dollars.


If Roger wants it to happen, it will.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 11:55 AM
Then you under-estimate the power of Roger Clemens and the fact that Drayton loves to make money.

The publicity stunt would be worth a few million dollars.


If Roger wants it to happen, it will.I believe it is you, who underestimate the value of a spot on a 25 man rossiter of your beloved MLB team. I have seen Koby Clemens play in person this month. He bats eighth in the Lexington Legends lineup for a reason.

You also underestimate the unmitigated greed of Roger Clemens, who has always chased the ever-loving greenback. He would rather line his own pockets--as opposed to the owners.

smith288
04-21-2006, 12:23 PM
I believe it is you, who underestimate the value of a spot on a 25 man rossiter of your beloved MLB team. I have seen Koby Clemens play in person this month. He bats eighth in the Lexington Legends lineup for a reason.
Pete Rose Jr. Says hi :wave:

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 12:27 PM
Pete Rose Jr. Says hi :wave:Yeah, and Drayton McClain is no Marge Schott. He's much more handsome....

MattyHo4Life
04-21-2006, 02:24 PM
I believe it is you, who underestimate the value of a spot on a 25 man rossiter of your beloved MLB team. I have seen Koby Clemens play in person this month. He bats eighth in the Lexington Legends lineup for a reason.

You also underestimate the unmitigated greed of Roger Clemens, who has always chased the ever-loving greenback. He would rather line his own pockets--as opposed to the owners.

Two points...

1) I believe AstroBuddy did say that he would be a September callup. In that case he wouldn't take up a spot on the 25 man roster.

2) If it is money that Roger Clemens is after then why would he choose the Reds over the Astros? Afterall, the Astros did pay him 18Mil last year didn't they? Obviously he won't make anywhere near that this year, but the Reds can't offer Clemens more money than the Astros can offer.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 02:25 PM
he would be a September callup. In that case he wouldn't take up a spot on the 25 man roster.
but he would take a spot on the 40 man roster.

MattyHo4Life
04-21-2006, 02:36 PM
Correct... I was just responding to Blimpies comment about the 25 man roster.

traderumor
04-21-2006, 02:54 PM
If Roger wants it to happen, it will.Dang, open this thread back up to see Rocket is much too much of an understatement for a nickname, but perhaps "Adonai" would be more fitting.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 03:38 PM
Two points...
2) If it is money that Roger Clemens is after then why would he choose the Reds over the Astros? Afterall, the Astros did pay him 18Mil last year didn't they? Obviously he won't make anywhere near that this year, but the Reds can't offer Clemens more money than the Astros can offer.Two Points of my own:

1) I never posted that the Reds should even offer Clemens a contract.

2) If the Reds were naive enough to play the role of supplying his contract leverage, Clemens would still never sign to play here because the Reds don't have a prayer of making the post-season this year.

Clemens has always been about the money. Ever since he got his first real contract with Boston. He will always follow the dollars regardless of where he might end up having to lay his head at nights.

To say that he would bypass the crazy money that will be thrown at him by NY or BOS--solely for the purpose of staging a father/son dog & pony show during some meaningless September game in Houston--is preposterous.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 03:40 PM
Correct... I was just responding to Blimpies comment about the 25 man roster.My whole point to Astrobuddy is that Koby Clemens is not good enough to make the Astros' 25, 40, or 125 man rossiter this year. That little Rocket/Koby sideshow during the Astros ST was nothing more than a staged photo opportunity.

MattyHo4Life
04-21-2006, 04:33 PM
My whole point to Astrobuddy is that Koby Clemens is not good enough to make the Astros' 25, 40, or 125 man rossiter this year. That little Rocket/Koby sideshow during the Astros ST was nothing more than a staged photo opportunity.


I can't argue with that :)

Chip R
04-21-2006, 04:49 PM
I can't argue with that :)

No way! It was real! ESPN said so so it must have been real. ;)

Astrobuddy
04-21-2006, 07:01 PM
Blimpie.. you think games in Houston in September will be meaningless?

You think the Red Sox or Yankees will offer more than the Astros?

Neither the Yankees or Red Sox can match Houston's offer when all things are considered.


You under estimate the Astros and Drayton McLane.

MattyHo4Life
04-22-2006, 04:14 PM
Blimpie.. you think games in Houston in September will be meaningless?

I don't know about Blimpie, but I think they will be meaningless. :)

Astrobuddy
04-22-2006, 04:29 PM
So I am guessing you have seen enough of your Cardinals to know that it aint going to be their year and the Astros will have already clinched the division? :)

Blimpie
04-22-2006, 09:52 PM
Blimpie.. you think games in Houston in September will be meaningless?
You think the Red Sox or Yankees will offer more than the Astros?

Neither the Yankees or Red Sox can match Houston's offer when all things are considered.


You under estimate the Astros and Drayton McLane.Let's try to stay on task here, okay. Your original post was regarding Koby Clemens playing in a major league game with his Dad this September, right? My contention remains: If Koby Clemens appears on the field in an Astro uniform this September, then their games--by definition--will have become meaningless.

The point is moot however, because he won't get promoted that high this year anyway. He would have to undergo a startling metamorphasis as a hitter (think Bruce Banner) during the next five months in order to get a whiff of AAA life...forget about the show.

Astrobuddy
04-22-2006, 10:06 PM
OK, point taken and you are probably right.

WMR
04-22-2006, 10:11 PM
Two Points of my own:

1) I never posted that the Reds should even offer Clemens a contract.

2) If the Reds were naive enough to play the role of supplying his contract leverage, Clemens would still never sign to play here because the Reds don't have a prayer of making the post-season this year.

Clemens has always been about the money. Ever since he got his first real contract with Boston. He will always follow the dollars regardless of where he might end up having to lay his head at nights.

To say that he would bypass the crazy money that will be thrown at him by NY or BOS--solely for the purpose of staging a father/son dog & pony show during some meaningless September game in Houston--is preposterous.

Blimpie, I've said it before, but it bears repeating: You really do bring it every post.

Do you feel conflicted at all rooting for the Legends? You're basically rooting for the progression of players that one day will be making Astrobuddy's heart go pitter-patter. ;)

Neo
04-22-2006, 10:16 PM
With Lee out for 6-8 weeks, the Astros will do whatever it takes to get Clemens so they can either win division or the WC.

blumj
04-23-2006, 11:43 AM
You really have to hand it to Roger's agents. All the NY writers expect he'll go to NY, most of the Bos writers have been convinced that there's a good chance he's going to Bos, and I'm assuming that the same thing is going on in Houston. None of this was really necessary. If Roger wants to pitch, he'll pitch wherever he wants for whatever money and perks are required, including the NYY relaxing their rules for him, or the Astros giving his son an undeserved sept. call up. Plus, the added bonus of having all of the teams' owners and executives wasting time and money sucking up to him for months, especially the Rangers, who I doubt have any real chance to sign him at all.

Jpup
04-23-2006, 01:09 PM
Blimpie.. you think games in Houston in September will be meaningless?

You think the Red Sox or Yankees will offer more than the Astros?

Neither the Yankees or Red Sox can match Houston's offer when all things are considered.


You under estimate the Astros and Drayton McLane.

I hope you didn't forget that you have to buy me season tickets to the Reds if Roger Clemens' signs with the Yankees.

Didn't forget did you?

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showpost.php?p=872812&postcount=71


jpup... you think Clemens will go back to the Yankees?

That I can promise you will not happen. I will buy you Reds season tickets if Clemens goes back to NY.

blumj
04-23-2006, 05:42 PM
I don't know how anyone can make a bet like that. What if Steinbrenner offers him $30 million, a private jet, part ownership of the YES network, and a statue next to the Babe's in monument park? How much do Reds season tickets cost?

Astrobuddy
04-23-2006, 06:44 PM
Because George isnt going to offer him that. Not for a 1/2 season.

The Astros will have the top offer and Clemens will take it or retire.

With the great start the Astros have and the offense this team now has I dont know why he would go to another team anyway. Right now, the team that affords him the best shot at another WS is Houston with the best record in the NL.

Blimpie
04-23-2006, 09:54 PM
Blimpie, I've said it before, but it bears repeating: You really do bring it every post.

Do you feel conflicted at all rooting for the Legends? You're basically rooting for the progression of players that one day will be making Astrobuddy's heart go pitter-patter. ;)Nah. I just like seeing the game played live. Sitting in a beautiful stadium that holds 3,500 folks is not too bad either. It is pretty tough for me to catch a mid-week Reds game being about 70 miles away, so the Legends are a nice creature comfort to have.

Besides, the Legends ownership group has been crossing their fingers for a Reds affiliation ever since the team's inception five years ago. The Astros have been very good to Lexington, but it would just make too much sense geographically to have Lexington as a Reds' affiliate.

BTW, I've got five tickets for the game versus the Hickory Crawdads next Sunday afternoon. What better way to finish off the weekend?

WMR
04-23-2006, 10:03 PM
Nah. I just like seeing the game played live. Sitting in a beautiful stadium that holds 3,500 folks is not too bad either. It is pretty tough for me to catch a mid-week Reds game being about 70 miles away, so the Legends are a nice creature comfort to have.

Besides, the Legends ownership group has been crossing their fingers for a Reds affiliation ever since the team's inception five years ago. The Astros have been very good to Lexington, but it would just make too much sense geographically to have Lexington as a Reds' affiliate.

BTW, I've got five tickets for the game versus the Hickory Crawdads next Sunday afternoon. What better way to finish off the weekend?

I can understand that. My fraternity rented out the party deck a few times, and it was always a blast.

Yep, very beautiful park.

Let's keep our fingers crossed on the Reds affiliation!! That would be great for the Reds marketing in this area (discussed ad nauseum in an earlier thread). Good for the Legends, too.

And I know lots of people who'd go from 'idle Legends observers/fans' to extremely interested diehards if they were a Reds affiliate.

Blimpie
04-24-2006, 10:28 AM
Looks like Astrobuddy's movie of the week involving the Clemens Clan might be placed on the back burner for a little while....

http://www.kentucky.com/mld/kentucky/sports/14414421.htm


Posted on Mon, Apr. 24, 2006

LEGENDS 7, POWER 4

Clemens lost in 'Twilight Zone'
ROCKET'S SON HURT, MAY BE OUT 'AWHILE'
By Mark Maloney
HERALD-LEADER STAFF WRITER

In a sense, the Lexington Legends got a freebie yesterday.

The Legends took advantage of eight walks, two hit batsmen and two West Virginia errors en route to a 7-4 victory at Applebee's Park.

Then again, the win came with a painful cost.

Designated hitter Koby Clemens suffered a dislocated left pinkie finger. Clemens was on base during the second inning when he was hurt, diving back to first on an attempted pickoff play.

"The finger just popped out of the joint, probably tore some tendons and broke the skin," Legends Manager Jack Lind said. "He could be out awhile."

After a trip to the hospital, Clemens was scheduled to fly last night to Houston for further evaluation.

Still, the Legends snapped a three-game slide and kept a half-game ahead of second-place Delmarva in the Northern Division.

They did so despite being outhit 10-6 and committing some gaffes of their own.

Mike Thompson was picked off base. Mitch Einertson didn't run out a wind-blown pop fly, reaching only first. And West Virginia scored a run when the Legends failed to properly execute a rundown.

Said Lind: "It was kind of a Twilight Zone, beer league baseball game."

"It was one of those days where we just had to work hard to make up for things that we probably caused to go wrong. And most of them were mental."

Levi Romero (3-0) started, giving up two runs on six hits over five innings. He fanned five and walked one.

"I feel pretty good today," said Romero, a 6-foot-4 right-hander from Venezuela. "I felt real lose in my arm."

Three relievers followed, with Sammy Gervacio notching his first save. The staff combined for 10 strikeouts and only two walks.

Einertson had two of the Legends' six hits, drove in a run and scored three times.

"Balls are finally dropping a little bit," Einertson said.

The Legends rallied from a 1-0 deficit with three runs in the third.

Power left-hander Derek Miller (0-1) issued two-out walks to Einertson, Ole Sheldon and J.R. Towles.

Eli Iorg, who hit a two-run homer Saturday, lined Miller's next pitch into center field, scoring two runs.

Iorg, hitting .214, was assisted by a pre-game video session with Sean Berry, Astros minor-league hitting coordinator.

"In baseball, it's all about making adjustments," Iorg said. "You can make adjustments in your next at-bat. I'm very grateful to have a guy like Sean in town right now. It helps out a whole lot when you're struggling. Even though I had a good at-bat yesterday, my swing's still not perfect, and it never will be."

Ryan Reed, who also homered Saturday, followed Iorg with an RBI single.

The Power came back with a run in the fifth and two in the sixth. The Legends answered each time.

A Towles single and Tommy Manzella sacrifice fly plated runs in the fifth. Einertson doubled home a run in the sixth, later scoring on a throwing error by shortstop Ryan Crew.

Jpup
04-24-2006, 11:37 AM
Because George isnt going to offer him that. Not for a 1/2 season.

The Astros will have the top offer and Clemens will take it or retire.

With the great start the Astros have and the offense this team now has I dont know why he would go to another team anyway. Right now, the team that affords him the best shot at another WS is Houston with the best record in the NL.

The news from New York this morning says Clemens is talking with the Yankees.

blumj
04-24-2006, 12:08 PM
The Astros will have the top offer

Maybe it's just my own warped, Red Sox fan perspective, but the mere possibility of the NYY allowing themselves to be OUTBID(IN DOLLARS!) by another team for a player they really want seems beyond the realm of possibility. It doesn't even fit the framework of the universe I've spent my entire life living in.

Jpup
04-24-2006, 12:11 PM
Maybe it's just my own warped, Red Sox fan perspective, but the mere possibility of the NYY allowing themselves to be OUTBID(IN DOLLARS!) by another team for a player they really want seems beyond the realm of possibility. It doesn't even fit the framework of the universe I've spent my entire life living in.

Beltran

blumj
04-24-2006, 12:33 PM
Beltran
They never even made him an offer.

sigep529
04-24-2006, 10:01 PM
Just a follow up on an earlier post about Koby Clemens' injury.

http://fantasybaseball.rotoworld.com/content/playerpages/player_main.asp?sport=MLB&id=4250

Single-A Lexington's Koby Clemens is expected to miss at least six weeks with a dislocated left pinkie finger.
"The finger just popped out of the joint, probably tore some tendons and broke the skin," Lexington manager Jack Lind said. Clemens was hitting .186/.327/.302 in 43 AB for the South Atlantic League club

Six weeks... I doubt we'll be seeing Roger in Lexington for a while.

vaticanplum
04-24-2006, 10:07 PM
I can totally see Roger Clemens signing with the Astros instead of the Yankees for a number of reasons, but money won't be one of them. It is one rare case in which I think money won't be his top priority. I do think it's unlikely that the Yankees will be outbid if they decide they want him (and I don't know that they will).

realistic
04-25-2006, 01:04 AM
Clemens will only end up on a team that is SURE they will be deep into the postseason. Why would anyone pay 10-20 million for a 3-4 game difference? thats essentially what he'd be worth pitching 3 months at home only compared to replacement value.

Now, having him on the postseason roster makes that money worth it - so if you plan on being in the LCS then hes worth bidding on. And I dont think thats realistic for the Reds just yet. Id like 1 more starting pitcher (Willis caliber arm) before even thinking about Clemens.

Astrobuddy
04-25-2006, 10:36 AM
No team can be SURE to go deep the PLayoffs. BUT.. thats would be the Astros anyway. They are the only team of the 3 that have been DEEP in the playoffs the last 2 seasons running.

registerthis
04-25-2006, 10:55 AM
No team can be SURE to go deep the PLayoffs. BUT.. thats would be the Astros anyway.

Oh, of course.

Blimpie
04-25-2006, 11:54 AM
No team can be SURE to go deep the PLayoffs. BUT.. thats would be the Astros anyway. They are the only team of the 3 that have been DEEP in the playoffs the last 2 seasons running...and yet they have just as many World Series trophies and the Tampa Bay Devil Rays.

Astrobuddy
04-25-2006, 12:00 PM
... and that matters how ?? The Astros have numerous Division titles and Playoff appearances, PLUS an NL Pennant. Do the D-Rays have that? 1990 the Astros have the 2nd best record in the NL and the 4th best record in all of baseball. Thats consistancy.

The Cards havent won a WS in 24 years either. They are still a better team than the Reds and have been for a LONG time.

Hell, the Cubs are a better team than the Reds.

How many WS titles do the Reds have since 1990? 16 years and counting, nothing.

Please dont give me the Team history, I am well aware of it. But is matters none to this discussion. There isnt one member of the 1990 Reds team on this current team. I venture to say there isnt one employee still working with the Reds that was around back then. But I could be wrong. There may be a coach or someone and a beer vender.

redsfan30
04-25-2006, 12:07 PM
There isnt one member of the 1990 Reds team on this current team. I venture to say there isnt one employee still working with the Reds that was around back then. But I could be wrong. There may be a coach or someone and a beer vender.
Wasn't Chris Hammond a member of that team?

MattyHo4Life
04-25-2006, 12:07 PM
The Cards havent won a WS in 24 years either. They are still a better team than the Reds and have been for a LONG time.

This thread has nothing to do with the Cardinals. The Cardinals aren't going to even attempt to sign Clemens.

guttle11
04-25-2006, 12:10 PM
... and that matters how ?? The Astros have numerous Division titles and Playoff appearances, PLUS an NL Pennant. Do the D-Rays have that? 1990 the Astros have the 2nd best record in the NL and the 4th best record in all of baseball. Thats consistancy.

The Cards havent won a WS in 24 years either. They are still a better team than the Reds and have been for a LONG time.

Hell, the Cubs are a better team than the Reds.

How many WS titles do the Reds have since 1990? 16 years and counting, nothing.

Please dont give me the Team history, I am well aware of it. But is matters none to this discussion. There isnt one member of the 1990 Reds team on this current team. I venture to say there isnt one employee still working with the Reds that was around back then. But I could be wrong. There may be a coach or someone and a beer vender.

Oh my. How many World Series titles do your beloved Astros have, like ever? I hope you relish that NL title last year. You know, the one it took your team 40 some years to get.

Oh, and the Stowe's have been around for a long, long time.

Even with the last five years, I'd rather be a Reds fan.

Astrobuddy
04-25-2006, 12:11 PM
Redsfan.. I think if you go back and read my post you will see that I said other than a coach.

The front office isnt the same, the team isnt the same, the manager isnt the same.

pedro
04-25-2006, 12:12 PM
Redsfan.. I think if you go back and read my post you will see that I said other than a coach.

The front office isnt the same, the team isnt the same, the manager isnt the same.


Chris Hammond is a player, not a coach.

guttle11
04-25-2006, 12:12 PM
Redsfan.. I think if you go back and read my post you will see that I said other than a coach.

The front office isnt the same, the team isnt the same, the manager isnt the same.

How many people on the Astros were there in 1990? Bad arguement.

registerthis
04-25-2006, 12:13 PM
How many WS titles do the Reds have since 1990? 16 years and counting, nothing.

This from a fan of a team with a grand total of zero titles. That's rich.

Astrobuddy
04-25-2006, 12:14 PM
Guttle.. I didnt ask you about team history or which team you would rather be a fan of.


I asked about the current teams.

Which team would you rather have in Reds uniforms RIGHT NOW?

I know the Reds history. The Astros had horrible owners and made horrible decisions. The Astros were an expansion team and it took the town, the Fans and the owners time to get with the program.


TEAM, NOT HISTORY. Why is that so hard to understand?

Blimpie
04-25-2006, 12:16 PM
... and that matters how ?? The Astros have numerous Division titles and Playoff appearances, PLUS an NL Pennant. Do the D-Rays have that? 1990 the Astros have the 2nd best record in the NL and the 4th best record in all of baseball. Thats consistancy.

The Cards havent won a WS in 24 years either. They are still a better team than the Reds and have been for a LONG time.

Hell, the Cubs are a better team than the Reds.

How many WS titles do the Reds have since 1990? 16 years and counting, nothing.

Please dont give me the Team history, I am well aware of it. But is matters none to this discussion. There isnt one member of the 1990 Reds team on this current team. I venture to say there isnt one employee still working with the Reds that was around back then. But I could be wrong. There may be a coach or someone and a beer vender.On another thread, you called the Astros "the Braves of the NL Central." I disagree--the Astros haven't won squat. At least the Braves have one championship to go with their numerous failed playoff appearances.

Your team might have several recent playoff appearances...but are you really that proud of Division banners? Ironically, if it weren't for the Braves, your team might have been in a few playoff series for longer than one weekend.

Astros. Nice looking team. Well put together. Lot's of playoff appearances.

Big, fat, hairy deal. In this game, it is all about the trophies. Your team has nada. Those are the facts and they are non-disputable.

guttle11
04-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Guttle.. I didnt ask you about team history or which team you would rather be a fan of.


I asked about the current teams.

Which team would you rather have in Reds uniforms RIGHT NOW?

I know the Reds history. The Astros had horrible owners and made horrible decisions. The Astros were an expansion team and it took the town, the Fans and the owners time to get with the program.


TEAM, NOT HISTORY. Why is that so hard to understand?

The only two people I would take from the Astros are Oswalt and Pettite. I'll take the Reds lineup over the Astros eight days a week. EDIT: Forgot Lidge.

Oh, and all I did was answer your questions.

Astrobuddy
04-25-2006, 12:22 PM
So you would keep Hatteberg over Berkman?

Who do the Reds have at 3rd?

You would keep WHO? Over Lidge?

You wouldnt trade rotations with the Astros? You must be crazy.

guttle11
04-25-2006, 12:24 PM
So you would keep Hatteberg over Berkman?

Who do the Reds have at 3rd?

You would keep WHO? Over Lidge?

You wouldnt trade rotations with the Astros? You must be crazy.

I don't like Berkman, never have. Plus, if I had control, Dunn would be at first and Freel would be in LF. Berkman over Dunn? No.

Trade rotations with the Astros? No, but I'd take Oswalt and Pettite combine them with Arroyo, Harang, Claussen and win 125 games.

BrooklynRedz
04-25-2006, 12:33 PM
Who do the Reds have at 3rd?



Edwin Encarnacion. You'll be hearing a lot about him in the very near future.