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traderumor
04-20-2006, 02:25 PM
As one who shrugged his shoulders at losing Dustin when I still thought Ortiz had something to offer, which I was admittedly wrong on that, this oughta make a fan of an org. devoid of young pitching prospects a little ill:

Line so far for the Salt Lake Bees (AAA, PCL, Angels):

3-0, 1.59 ERA, 17IP, 11H, 17K, 5 BB, 2 HR

deltachi8
04-20-2006, 02:27 PM
How old is Dustin now?

traderumor
04-20-2006, 02:33 PM
DOB 12/26/81, so just turned 24

A 1st round HS pitcher that might actually make the majors---for somebody else. Good idea to flip them, I guess, but for better than Ramon Ortiz. Another fine DanO move.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 02:36 PM
Trade rumor, contrary to popular belief, a lot of first round HS pitchers make it to the big leagues.

Aronchis
04-20-2006, 02:38 PM
As one who shrugged his shoulders at losing Dustin when I still thought Ortiz had something to offer, which I was admittedly wrong on that, this oughta make a fan of an org. devoid of young pitching prospects a little ill:

Line so far for the Salt Lake Bees (AAA, PCL, Angels):

3-0, 1.59 ERA, 17IP, 11H, 17K, 5 BB, 2 HR

Uh, TR,Germano, The Lizard. Already got plenty of "Moseleys" inside the Reds. It is having the talents of Homer Bailey's of the world which the Reds lack in the upper minors and what we sorely need.

RedsIn07
04-20-2006, 02:45 PM
He bombed badly last year after the trade though didn't he?

traderumor
04-20-2006, 02:45 PM
Trade rumor, contrary to popular belief, a lot of first round HS pitchers make it to the big leagues.Dude, you've just opened up a can of worms. That is a topic that has been hashed out many times. A search oughta reveal some really interesting discussions already on the books.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 02:47 PM
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/dustin-moseley.shtml

Here's his career.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 03:21 PM
Actually, the chance that they succeed isnt so good, especially prior to 2000, but the chance that they make it to the big leagues is no where near as bad as you would be lead to believe. Most of them prior to 2000 however have turned out to be a reliever. I have researched this myself, so I dont need to search the boards for it.

Caveat Emperor
04-20-2006, 03:26 PM
As one who shrugged his shoulders at losing Dustin when I still thought Ortiz had something to offer, which I was admittedly wrong on that, this oughta make a fan of an org. devoid of young pitching prospects a little ill:

Line so far for the Salt Lake Bees (AAA, PCL, Angels):

3-0, 1.59 ERA, 17IP, 11H, 17K, 5 BB, 2 HR

PCL's got a really big rep for being a pitcher's league, IIRC. I might be dead wrong about that, though.

Either way, I wasn't terribly pleased to lose Dustin Mosely, but he would've been crowded out in AAA by "O'Brien Guys" like Germano and Ramirez and never given a fair shake anyway, I have a hunch.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 03:32 PM
Actually, the chance that they succeed isnt so good, especially prior to 2000, but the chance that they make it to the big leagues is no where near as bad as you would be lead to believe. Most of them prior to 2000 however have turned out to be a reliever. I have researched this myself, so I dont need to search the boards for it.Ok, I'll rephrase. Make it to the bigs and have a significant career. It's really what I was thinking, anyhow, just didn't phrase it that way. Also, you might want to consider opposing opinions, even if you disagree with them, and even if you consider yourself an expert on the topic. Maybe you've heard them all before, but at least you know where the view is coming from, since I can see you will probably have something to say in this year's draft thread, where the debate happens every year.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 03:33 PM
PCL's got a really big rep for being a pitcher's league, IIRC. I might be dead wrong about that, though.

Either way, I wasn't terribly pleased to lose Dustin Mosely, but he would've been crowded out in AAA by "O'Brien Guys" like Germano and Ramirez and never given a fair shake anyway, I have a hunch.I was thinking it was the opposite. :confused:

oneupper
04-20-2006, 03:38 PM
http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/M/dustin-moseley.shtml

Here's his career.


Hey. He can hit!

NC Reds
04-20-2006, 03:43 PM
I hated the Ortiz trade then. Still hate it now.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 03:44 PM
Ok, I'll rephrase. Make it to the bigs and have a significant career. It's really what I was thinking, anyhow, just didn't phrase it that way. Also, you might want to consider opposing opinions, even if you disagree with them, and even if you consider yourself an expert on the topic. Maybe you've heard them all before, but at least you know where the view is coming from, since I can see you will probably have something to say in this year's draft thread, where the debate happens every year.

I consider other opinions all the time. I doubt I will have much to say in the draft thread becuase I tend to let things settle with the draft and let the players get at least that first half of a season in before even trying to figure out what someone was thinking taking a player where they did. There are still quite a few good arms who were high school first round draftees in the 90's but I really think you will begin to see a lot more of them now that teams are in general, taking better care of these young arms than they used to.

Aronchis
04-20-2006, 03:45 PM
I was thinking it was the opposite. :confused:

No, I think the International league is the big hitting league, Germano's numbers dropped somewhat when he got traded, which wasn't surprising.

Anyways, between The Lizard,Germano and Moseley, the Lizard has definitely the biggest upside. Matter of fact, Germano and Moseley aren't even prospects anymore IMO.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 03:48 PM
Aronchis, I agree with you on Ramirez, but I am wondering why Germano and Mosely dont fit into "prospects" anymore in your eyes? Is it age? Projectibility? Just curious.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 03:54 PM
Germano is only 23 and has held his own in AAA for two years. I would much rather see him in that 5 slot right now than Williams throwing BP every fifth day.

dougdirt
04-20-2006, 03:58 PM
I definately agree TR, I dont think it will be much longer until we see him in Cincinnati. Well, unless they decide to go with Belisle as a starter again...

Aronchis
04-20-2006, 04:07 PM
Aronchis, I agree with you on Ramirez, but I am wondering why Germano and Mosely dont fit into "prospects" anymore in your eyes? Is it age? Projectibility? Just curious.

Because neither project much physically or stuff wise. I remember Chris Welsh commenting how the Lizard would get better overtime because he had not filled out physically yet(Welsh's usual gentle jab at O'brien that the Lizard wasn't nearly ready yet) and would probably gain more velocity and stamina as he got older.

Germano and Moseley both throw in the high 80's, topping out in the low 90's, while the Lizard most likely will throw in the low 90's regularly. It doesn't sound like much, it means alot to their futures as starting pitchers. I just think Moseley/Germano will get shelled in the Bigs.

The Lizard on the otherhand, is 23 and IMO will catch up to the AAA level as the season progresses, improving, growing stronger. By the time 2007 comes around, a 24 year old Lizard will be able to compete on the Major's level. By the time he is 25 in 2008, he could be a serviceable starter. If I were Krivsky, the Lizard could be a nice chip thrown in a deal for a more talented starter.

creek14
04-20-2006, 04:32 PM
He bombed badly last year after the trade though didn't he?
You have to factor in his dad killing himself into that.

flyer85
04-20-2006, 04:41 PM
Salt Lake(at altitiude) is a big time hitters haven. Pitching well playing half your games there is quite a feat(same goes for las vegas).

flyer85
04-20-2006, 04:43 PM
I would much rather see him in that 5 slot right now than Williams throwing BP every fifth day.I really enjoyed seeing that 82mph "heater" he was tossing up last weekend. Can't wait for tonight.

traderumor
04-20-2006, 04:53 PM
I really enjoyed seeing that 82mph "heater" he was tossing up last weekend. Can't wait for tonight.His finish looks like an 82 year-old constipated nursing home resident tossing a horseshoe.

TRF
04-20-2006, 05:21 PM
You have to factor in his dad killing himself into that.

It was suicide? didn't know that. I thought he was in poor health and succumbed to it.

RBA
04-20-2006, 05:29 PM
It was suicide? didn't know that. I thought he was in poor health and succumbed to it.


That's what I thought too. I didn't know anything about a suicide. I hope nobody from redszone pushed him over the edge. He was a great guy to chat with.

pedro
04-20-2006, 05:34 PM
PCL is a big time hitters league.

I'll have to keep my eyes open and see if Mosely ever pitches here in Portland this year. I'd like to check him out.

pedro
04-20-2006, 05:38 PM
Looks like Moseley is pitching here sunday afternoon.

might go check him out

Doc. Scott
04-20-2006, 06:22 PM
-It was an illness.

-The IL is a pitcher's league.

-The PCL is a hitter's league.

creek14
04-20-2006, 06:39 PM
It was suicide? didn't know that. I thought he was in poor health and succumbed to it.
Sadly it was. Broke my heart. Terry was a great guy. We got together with him a few times when he came to Dayton to see Dustin play. I still have the last PM he sent me and it haunts me.

Enough of that. I wish Dustin the best.

No Doc, it wasn't. I talked to a family member.

Doc. Scott
04-20-2006, 07:14 PM
Sadly it was. Broke my heart. Terry was a great guy. We got together with him a few times when he came to Dayton to see Dustin play. I still have the last PM he sent me and it haunts me.

Enough of that. I wish Dustin the best.

No Doc, it wasn't. I talked to a family member.

Sorry. I was just remembering the press clippings and was unaware of your closer connection.

Ravenlord
04-21-2006, 04:33 AM
Moseley also had issues last year with an oblique strain.

pedro
04-24-2006, 01:14 PM
Saw Dustin pitch here in Portland yesterday. He keeps the ball down for the most part but his fastball tops out at 88 and by the 4th inning it was only coming at 84-85. He gave up a couple of dingers too.

I honestly don't ever seeing him being effective in the majors.

Doc. Scott
04-24-2006, 01:36 PM
That was, to be fair, his first poor outing of the season. And his breaking stuff was 10-15 mph less, always a decent sign. But still, you've gotta have pinpoint location to be effective when you top out at 88.

westofyou
04-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Walter Young was the bomb at the Beavers game yesterday, smashing a Sac Fly and 2 HR's in about 4 pitches in his last 3 AB's