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View Full Version : So I'm thinking Edwin Encarnacion might not suck



M2
04-21-2006, 03:08 AM
Now this is just me going out on a limb here, but the kid boasts a .288/.413/.577 statline and he's now on pace to score and drive in 150 runs.

And I'm thinking I could live with that.

pedro
04-21-2006, 03:31 AM
That bat speed don't lie.

pedro
04-21-2006, 03:35 AM
I really like the fact he's got 8 walks already.

pedro
04-21-2006, 03:39 AM
I'm also very encouraged by how well he's doing against RH pitching.

Actually, his splits across the board are really nice.

SteelSD
04-21-2006, 03:40 AM
I was on record over a year ago noting that Encarnacion's Error rate may place him at a position other than 3B.

At this point, his play has demonstrated that he can cover the 3B position very well even with his errant throws due to his range. I expect his aim to consistently improve as he gets more reps at the MLB level.

What I'm most enamoured with is his ability to identify Balls and Strikes thusfar. I expected Felipe Lopez to do so, but didn't expect Encarnacion to do it at his young age.

At this point, I'm ecstatic at Encarnacion's development and I hope he holds down the 3B position for the next decade. We may actually have a highly productive guy who can play that position for the first time in what seems like decades.

To everyone who was less concerned about his defense than I: Good call. :)

M2
04-21-2006, 03:57 AM
Through his first 81 games in MLB, he had committed 16 errors at 3B. That would be 32 errors over a full season. That's on the high side, but it's on the acceptably high side for a kid with big range and a good bat.

Plus, one thing I think you can reasonably count on in baseball is that young players with actual defensive skills will cut down their error rates over time. I know I've cut down my error rate as I've matured. Got my second marriage totally right.

Ravenlord
04-21-2006, 06:27 AM
also gotta love the 3.84 P/PA this year, and the 3.96 P/PA for his brief MLB career.

OnBaseMachine
04-21-2006, 07:48 AM
Nice post, M2. As impressive as that .288/.413/.577 statline is, you what impresses me the most? How about that 10 walk/9 strikeout ratio he has in just 63 plate appearances. Plus the kid already has nine extra-base hits.

Encarnacion is going to be a lot better than most people thought he would be. Think Scott Rolen.

MrCinatit
04-21-2006, 08:51 AM
I would be very happy if he was a Craig Nettles-type player, with a bit of a higher average.
But then again, that is because I always did like Nettles.

RFS62
04-21-2006, 09:16 AM
I know I've cut down my error rate as I've matured. Got my second marriage totally right.



Yeah, that's been my experience too. Something about that first trip to the bigs when you aren't really ready for it.

Red in Chicago
04-21-2006, 09:21 AM
i think if we had a better fielding first baseman, it would also help ee...imagine having a derrick lee type over there rather than hatte...i'm shocked at how bad he appears to be...

Redmachine2003
04-21-2006, 10:19 AM
i think if we had a better fielding first baseman, it would also help ee...imagine having a derrick lee type over there rather than hatte...i'm shocked at how bad he appears to be... Or at least a bigger target. Dunn would of had at least 3 of those ER's of EE, with his longer reach and higher reach.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:27 AM
Now this is just me going out on a limb here, but the kid boasts a .288/.413/.577 statline and he's now on pace to score and drive in 150 runs.

And I'm thinking I could live with that.He may not be scrappy enough, he did walk with the bases loaded last night.

lollipopcurve
04-21-2006, 10:33 AM
For his last year or two in the minors I suspected he was better than the ballyhooed Andy Marte. So far, so good.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:34 AM
For his last year or two in the minors I suspected he was better than the ballyhooed Andy Marte. So far, so good.EE had a better AAA season last year than Marte. There is one HUGE difference. EE was not a Braves prospect.

Krusty
04-21-2006, 10:45 AM
Why do I see a young Tony Perez here? Perez started at third base and eventually shifted to lst base. The same could happen to Encarncion but I think we have to endure the growing pains right now.

lollipopcurve
04-21-2006, 10:47 AM
There is one HUGE difference. EE was not a Braves prospect.

Exactly. (Plus, Reds prospects tend to be undervalued, in my opinion -- ever since Marge)

traderumor
04-21-2006, 10:48 AM
Suddenly, a very strong young nucleus is possible at 5 of 8 positions, and you could go as high as 6 if you move Dunn in to 1b and bring up Denorfia to play LF/CF.

lollipopcurve
04-21-2006, 10:50 AM
The same could happen to Encarncion but I think we have to endure the growing pains right now.

True -- EdE and Phillips will both have growing pains. Give them time -- they're both superb talents at their positions.

johngalt
04-21-2006, 11:06 AM
In two years you could be looking at...

1. Denorfia CF
2. Lopez SS
3. Dunn LF
4. Kearns RF
5. Encarnacion 3B
6. Votto 1B
7. Phillips 2B
8. Perez C

Not a bad under-30 lineup, and I think there would be enough offense to withstand Perez's horrible bat in exchange for his defense behind the plate.

westofyou
04-21-2006, 11:08 AM
Why do I see a young Tony Perez here? Perez started at third base and eventually shifted to lst base. The same could happen to Encarncion but I think we have to endure the growing pains right now.
I have no idea why.

EE is way better at 3rd than Perez ever was, no comparison other than they both grew up speaking spanish.

lollipopcurve
04-21-2006, 11:11 AM
In two years you could be looking at...

1. Denorfia CF
2. Lopez SS
3. Dunn LF
4. Kearns RF
5. Encarnacion 3B
6. Votto 1B
7. Phillips 2B
8. Perez C

Not a bad under-30 lineup, and I think there would be enough offense to withstand Perez's horrible bat in exchange for his defense behind the plate.

If not Votto, you've got Bruce on the doorstep (w/ Dunn moving to 1B).

smith288
04-21-2006, 12:11 PM
Why does it seem like I have seen Votto's name since grade school?

BRM
04-21-2006, 12:17 PM
You mean he might actually be better than Joe Randa?

IslandRed
04-21-2006, 12:21 PM
I think Marte's stat lines supported his reputation, as he was playing excellent defense and showing more power at earlier ages (he's about a year younger than EE) in a Braves system where the parks/leagues favor pitchers, leading to the general opinion that he was going to be a monster. But Encarnacion's power caught up last year.

Caveat Emperor
04-21-2006, 12:45 PM
Why does it seem like I have seen Votto's name since grade school?

It does seem like he was proclaimed the "heir to Sean Casey" a long time ago -- possibly when Votto was stil in CYO ball.

Truth be told, my hope for Votto is that he continues to perform well this year, gets a cup this September, then is moved for pitching or a solid C prospect. Adam Dunn has to be the long-term future of this team at 1B -- the team can't use a rising prospect as an excuse to keep him out in LF.

RedsManRick
04-21-2006, 12:48 PM
I'm going to reserve my enthusiam...

Willie Greene in 1997: .253/.354/.459, 26 HR, 91 RBI, 78 BB, 111 K - .934 FLD%

I'm not saying he's Willie Greene. He's 3 years ahead of him but their general profiles seem somewhat similar. Let's wait more than a few hundred ABs before we pencil him for the next decade.

westofyou
04-21-2006, 12:51 PM
I'm going to reserve my enthusiam...

Willie Greene in 1997: .253/.354/.459, 26 HR, 91 RBI, 78 BB, 111 K - .934 FLD%

I'm not saying he's Willie Greene. He's 3 years ahead of him but their general profiles seem somewhat similar. Let's wait more than a few hundred ABs before we pencil him for the next decade.
Willie didn't like to play baseball, he Chris Browned it.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 01:06 PM
Willie didn't like to play baseball without a doubt, which is rather amazing when you consider the talent to make it to the majors playing a game you never really worked at.

BRM
04-21-2006, 01:17 PM
Has Marty started to warm up to EE yet? Just curious. I don't get to listen to Marty living out here.

Doc. Scott
04-21-2006, 01:20 PM
Actually, Marty remarked something along the lines of, "And people say this guy shouldn't play every day!" after Edwin hit his two-run homer last night.

So he does appear to be sold on him. But it took clutch hits, which is why Adam Dunn still gets no valentines.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 01:23 PM
But it took clutch hitsClutch hits? EE allowed himself to be walked with the bases loaded. A cardinal sin if ever there was one.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 01:26 PM
Actually, Marty remarked something along the lines of, "And people say this guy shouldn't play every day!" after Edwin hit his two-run homer last night.


Marty's evil twin said the other day he was struggling and wondered to Marc Lancaster if he was going to be successful.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 01:29 PM
Marty's evil twin said the other day he was struggling and wondered to Marc Lancaster if he was going to be successful.Maybe Marty got a lot smarter in the last two days. Marty have you been lurking on Redzone?

BRM
04-21-2006, 01:32 PM
Clutch hits? EE allowed himself to be walked with the bases loaded. A cardinal sin if ever there was one.

Maybe EE is getting paid to walk?

flyer85
04-21-2006, 01:36 PM
Maybe EE is getting paid to walk?you could be right, I hadn't thought of that possibility.

Reds1
04-21-2006, 02:00 PM
I wish we had a long list of pitchers we could pencil in for the next couple years. That's the biggest issue on this team. If we had pitching we are playoff bound now.

princeton
04-21-2006, 02:05 PM
I wish we had a long list of pitchers we could pencil in for the next couple years.

we do have a long list: it's the 6-year free agent list on the Baseball America site

long lists have never been our problem.

quick solution? make the Twins' Rick Anderson a part-owner

CTA513
04-21-2006, 02:12 PM
we do have a long list: it's the 6-year free agent list on the Baseball America site



:laugh:

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 03:41 PM
Clutch hits? EE allowed himself to be walked with the bases loaded. A cardinal sin if ever there was one.
A DP would have been better. :D

deltachi8
04-21-2006, 03:47 PM
without a doubt, which is rather amazing when you consider the talent to make it to the majors playing a game you never really worked at.

to this day, I still remember a homerun Willie hit playing in Buffalo while with Indy....quick bat and the ball just jumped.

membengal
04-21-2006, 05:49 PM
First saw EE in person in Spring Training in 2005. He was just one of "those" players...the ball jumped off his bat with authority, the sound his hits make when he connects is special, just looked the part of a big-time ballplayer. Nice to see the player show signs of touching the potential.

Even nicer, the batting eye he is displaying. He can be a real devastating offensive force if he can retain that pitch selectivity going forward. I have been rather impressed by his ability to lay off the hard outside breaking stuff. Pretty impressive for a young hitter.

MWM
04-21-2006, 07:20 PM
Let's just hope the coaches have the good sense to leave him alone.

Mario-Rijo
04-21-2006, 07:24 PM
In two years you could be looking at...

1. Denorfia CF
2. Lopez SS
3. Dunn LF
4. Kearns RF
5. Encarnacion 3B
6. Votto 1B
7. Phillips 2B
8. Perez C

Not a bad under-30 lineup, and I think there would be enough offense to withstand Perez's horrible bat in exchange for his defense behind the plate.

I do like the Bruce thing alot.

1. Denorfia CF RH
2. Lopez SS SH
3. Dunn 1B LH
4. Kearns RF RH
5. EE 3B RH
6. Bruce LF LH
7. Phillips 2B RH
8. Perez C RH

Bench
1B- Votto LH
2B/SS- Bergolla RH
SS/3B- Janish RH
OF- Szymanski LH
C- Ross/Sardinha/Valentin??
UT- Freel RH

Rotation:
Harang
Claussen
Arroyo
Wood
Bailey

Wew, Not Bad!

buckeyenut
04-22-2006, 10:08 AM
I think this is where dealing a guy like LaRue to a team like LA can pay off big dividends. If we could get something like Penny and Navarro or Martin (who they like better and I would shy away from) for LaRue and say Mercker or Aurillia, I think we set ourselves up longterm.

reds44
04-23-2006, 12:02 AM
i think if we had a better fielding first baseman, it would also help ee...imagine having a derrick lee type over there rather than hatte...i'm shocked at how bad he appears to be...
Ok we have to stop. You can't just move people from position to position like nothing will happen. This isn't a video game and you can't put people wherever and they will work. Edwin has great range, and a great arm. Accuracy will come. According to redzone Griffey, Dunn, and EE should all be starting at 1st, and Felipe at second with Freel and Deno in CF. You can't just have people switching positions.

EE has been really good so far this year. He has been one of the most consitent hitters, and has really impressed me with his eye at the plate.

Keep it up EE! :thumbup:

Also if the Reds can keep the core of this team together and get Griffey's and Milton's contracts off the books in a few years and spend that money WISELY (key word) on pitching. We could be scary good in a few years.

Caveat Emperor
04-25-2006, 11:30 PM
4 more RBI on a 2-4 evening to raise his batting average to .279. His 9th double of the season as well puts him on pace to hit almost 70 for the season, obliterating the Reds record held by Pete Rose and Frank Robinson.

Upon further review -- this guy, indeed, might not suck. In fact, it might be quite the opposite.

Cyclone792
04-25-2006, 11:47 PM
4 more RBI on a 2-4 evening to raise his batting average to .279. His 9th double of the season as well puts him on pace to hit almost 70 for the season, obliterating the Reds record held by Pete Rose and Frank Robinson.

Upon further review -- this guy, indeed, might not suck. In fact, it might be quite the opposite.

Earl Webb (http://www.baseball-reference.com/w/webbea01.shtml) is starting to get nervous. Not known for much in a career that spanned only 650 games, Webb's best and likely only claim to fame is being the all-time single season doubles leader with 67 two baggers in 1931.

Edwin's eyein' Earl; the chase is on!

OnBaseMachine
04-29-2006, 05:50 PM
Encarnacion is now hitting .303/.404/.579 after today's game. 14 extra-base hits and 12 walks in 89 plate appearances. He is two RBI away from Tony Perez April record of 26 RBI.

He's a pretty good player, huh? I've been saying it for a while now - Edwin Encarnacion is going to be even better than what most people think. A 1.000 OPS down the road is not out of the question.

SirFelixCat
04-29-2006, 06:21 PM
I'm really excited about what he has been doing from ST til now. Every indication is that this is his "norm" and he is really going to be something special.


I'm loving that interview that I did with him 2 years ago here for the 'Zone...just might have to keep that tape ;)

M2
04-29-2006, 07:02 PM
Last year I gave some guff to the folks at Baseball America for failing to include Encarnacion on their weekly "hot" lists.

I made the argument that seemingly any A-baller could post hot weeks like EdE was having and at least get an honorable mention, but here's a guy putting a good-sized hurt on AAA and he doesn't draw an ounce of notice.

The smarmy answer I got back was who would I cross off the list to add Encarnacion, not so easy huh? My response was just about any A-baller on the list and that I figured what Encarnacion was doing at the time was at least equivalent to what Conor Jackson was doing with his PCL-inflated numbers. I also noted that Encarnacion is younger than Jackson and he was scorching the same level. Beyond that I noted that if Andy Marte were posting numbers like Encarnacion, he'd have been near the top of the list.

I'm sure the BA guy took me for a complete homer, but hopefully now people are starting to realize how good this kid is. Not how good he will be, not how good he can be, but how good he is.

I don't know how a kid with his tools and performance never got much in the way of notoriety, but he never did.

pedro
04-29-2006, 07:15 PM
Thanks Rob Bell.

Aronchis
04-29-2006, 07:21 PM
EE is baseball's unwanted child. Everything is Marte, Marte and more Marte and EE is ignored.

I remember when the Bell/Mateo deal went down, people on Reds message boards were going nuts. Little did they know what little work ethic and party mannerism Bell had. They had to dump that guy, weird that the 18 year old nobody is the best player involved lol.

lollipopcurve
04-29-2006, 07:24 PM
Beyond that I noted that if Andy Marte were posting numbers like Encarnacion, he'd have been near the top of the list.

I'm sure the BA guy took me for a complete homer, but hopefully now people are starting to realize how good this kid is. Not how good he will be, not how good he can be, but how good he is.

I don't know how a kid with his tools and performance never got much in the way of notoriety, but he never did.

Amen. In general, BA undervalues Reds minor leaguers. And when it came to comparing Marte, from Atlanta (who BA loves), to EdE, there was a robotic tilt toward the future Brave (oops, Red Sox...oops! DRay) that always bugged me too.

I love watching this kid hit -- he's so much more comfortable up there this year than he was last year, at least from what I've seen. And I haven't seen a righthanded Red pull balls as hard as he does in a long time. I give Narron a lot of credit for how he's handled him. Seems just the right mix of confidence and protection.

MWM
04-29-2006, 09:36 PM
On BBTN, Tim Kirkijan said that the Reds should eventually move him to first base where he'll be able to play better defense. I swear these guys do no thinking or research whatsoever when uttering such clueless opinions on a daily basis.

membengal
04-29-2006, 11:34 PM
I think the BBTN guys are just mad that the Reds are winning at this point, and have not gotten over that fact.

Kirkjian is usually smarter than that...didn't Mike Schmidt and other illustrious 3b of the past have some adjustment issues in terms of D when they were first breaking into the bigs? This isn't a new thing...

Just went and looked up Schmidt's errors in his first few years in the bigs, 26 and 24. 17 in part time action in 1973 prior to that. EE will be fine as he grows into the position in the bigs...

OnBaseMachine
04-29-2006, 11:49 PM
On BBTN, Tim Kirkijan said that the Reds should eventually move him to first base where he'll be able to play better defense. I swear these guys do no thinking or research whatsoever when uttering such clueless opinions on a daily basis.

Kirkijan must be listening to that scout who said Encarnacion is better suited for the DH. :rolleyes:

I think Encarnacion will win multiple gold gloves once Scott Rolen moves on to another team or retires. Edwin has all the tools to be a great defensive third baseman: considerable range, lightening-quick reactions, and a very strong arm. His problem is his throws, and IMO that will improve with age.

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 12:09 AM
/\ I agree, his trouble will all go away with reps, moving him would be flat out insane.

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 12:10 AM
Thanks Rob Bell.
And the Atlanta Braves ;)

marcshoe
04-30-2006, 12:23 AM
I think the BBTN guys are just mad that the Reds are winning at this point, and have not gotten over that fact.

Kirkjian is usually smarter than that...didn't Mike Schmidt and other illustrious 3b of the past have some adjustment issues in terms of D when they were first breaking into the bigs? This isn't a new thing...

Just went and looked up Schmidt's errors in his first few years in the bigs, 26 and 24. 17 in part time action in 1973 prior to that. EE will be fine as he grows into the position in the bigs...


Maybe he just thought EE would follow Albert Pujols' career path. :cool:

wheels
04-30-2006, 11:13 AM
He'll never amount to anything if he doesn't start using right field.

Remember?:laugh:

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:20 AM
He'll never amount to anything if he doesn't start using right field.

Remember?:laugh:

He tried yesterday lol. When that ball went foul all I could think about was that idiot on Marcs blog complaining about Edwin pulling the ball.