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Benihana
04-21-2006, 09:50 AM
So here's a question. With all the talk surrounding the potential Marlins rumor, and given the hot start EdE has jumped out to, in an effort to acquire Dontrelle Willis, would you rather package Homer Bailey or Edwin Encarnacion along with Austin Kearns to get Dontrelle Willis? I keep going back and forth on this one, but I was curious to hear your opinions.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 09:59 AM
So here's a question. With all the talk surrounding the potential Marlins rumor, and given the hot start EdE has jumped out to, in an effort to acquire Dontrelle Willis, would you rather package Homer Bailey or Edwin Encarnacion along with Austin Kearns to get Dontrelle Willis? I keep going back and forth on this one, but I was curious to hear your opinions.That's a tough, Willis is going to get extrememly expensive and the Reds don't have another good option at 3rd and it still leaves the bullpen problem unaddressed(althougjh I wouldn't deal for bullpenners at this point).

smith288
04-21-2006, 11:15 AM
Dont want Willis. He is a great pitcher but I dont like his mechanics and his upcoming salary.

Johnny Footstool
04-21-2006, 11:57 AM
Bailey, in a heartbeat. Especially considering the Reds' history with developing young pitchers.

Joseph
04-21-2006, 12:01 PM
Dont want Willis. He is a great pitcher but I dont like his mechanics and his upcoming salary.

My sentiments exactly.

BCubb2003
04-21-2006, 12:15 PM
If we talk ourselves out of Dontrelle Willis, for valid reasons probably, who then? How does a GM brins back a quality pitcher, especially in mid-season?

flyer85
04-21-2006, 12:16 PM
If we talk ourselves out of Dontrelle Willis, for valid reasons probably, who then? How does a GM brins back a quality pitcher, especially in mid-season?I could easily live with Heilman(a starter being underutilized as a reliever) of the Mets.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 02:43 PM
We won't be in the Willis stakes, what Reds.com member keeps this rumor going?? ;)

max venable
04-21-2006, 05:20 PM
...the Reds don't have another good option at 3rd ...
Hey, I know, we could trade EdE and move kEARnS to 3B.

wait....never mind.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 05:30 PM
Hey, I know, we could trade EdE and move kEARnS to 3B.

wait....never mind.
:laugh:

How bout Freel catch and LaRue play 3rd? :D

Mario-Rijo
04-21-2006, 05:42 PM
How bout Freel catch and LaRue play 3rd?

Talk about passed balls!

Sea Ray
04-21-2006, 06:06 PM
This team will not be made by acquiring guys like Willis and Roger Clemens. We can't afford the loss of prospects or players and we can't afford the salaries of such guys. Given baseball's current system, that's where we stand.

Spitball
04-22-2006, 09:54 PM
I could easily live with Heilman(a starter being underutilized as a reliever) of the Mets.

I can't imagine why the Mets would trade Heilman. The Mets have built a solid bullpen, why would they want to tear away an important component? And for what? What do they need that the Reds could provide to pry away a valuable set-up man?

RedlegJake
04-23-2006, 09:15 AM
The rumored trade with the Marlins has been shot down. There is no deal.

red-in-la
04-23-2006, 11:28 AM
The rumored trade with the Marlins has been shot down. There is no deal.

I don't agree with John Fay on this one. His reasons for the trade not happening are not based on logic.

His biggest reason is that Kearns makes 1.85 million and will get a huge raise in arbitration.....well, that is about as silly as it gets. Does he really think Miguel Cabrerra is going to get less in arb.? Cabrerra's raise will make Kearns' raise look like pocket change.

And if the Marlins owner is really wanting to keep Willis (who again makes Kearns' current a future salary look like a caddy tip) and Cabrerra, he is willing to spend lots of bucks and the cost of what the Reds might send them is negligible.

The second reason this trade won't work is the Reds don't have the prospects. Again, bunk and double bunk. Few teams are able to trade two young CURRENT ML players and two promising young pitchers, one of whom has already had succes at the ML level. I believe the Reds would have to trade both Wagner and Bailey to get the Marlins to bite.

So you send Kearns, EdwinE, Wagner and Bailey to the Marlins for Willis and Cabrerra. The Reds offense stays about the same, the defense gets better at 3rd and Denorfia is probably a wash with Kearns in RF, but the pitching staff is suddenly set to win right now. Willis, Harang and Arroyo make a pretty decent 1-2-3 punch.

IMHO, you also make a trade of Freel and some minor league stuff for another reliever.

Krusty
04-23-2006, 11:35 AM
What if you added Bailey in the deal to make it Bailey, Wagner, Encarncion and Kearns for Cabrera and Willis?

And if Kearns salary is too much, I think the Marlins can find a third team to send Kearns.

TeamBoone
04-23-2006, 01:38 PM
Sunday, April 23, 2006

The word on Reds-Marlins trade? No
Reds insider / J. Fay

MILWAUKEE - They could do a whole "CSI" episode on it: The Anatomy of a Rumor.

Surely you've heard it by now. The Reds are going to trade Austin Kearns, Edwin Encarnacion and Ryan Wagner to the Florida Marlins for Dontrelle Willis and Miguel Cabrera.

Let's pause here to say: It's not going to happen. It never was going to happen and, as far as I can determine, there was never any discussion between the clubs.

Reds general manager Wayne Krivsky does not respond to trade rumors. So he wouldn't talk about this one. But he refuted it without really refuting it.

"I don't know where that stuff comes from," he said. "There's nothing to 99 percent of it."

So where does it come from?

I first heard the rumor involving the Reds and Marlins a week ago. Someone posted it on fellow Reds beat writer Marc Lancaster's blog.

Lancaster quickly shot it down, which apparently had the effect of gas on a bonfire.

I heard it on talk radio two days later. That added a little more fuel.

The talk about the Marlins wanting to move Willis and Cabrera apparently came from one of the talking heads on ESPN.

My guess is an enterprising Reds fan picked three likely suspects in Kearns, Encarnacion and Wagner to create the Reds' version of it.

The deal makes sense from the Reds' standpoint. They'd get a No. 1 starter and the best young third baseman in baseball. But it makes absolutely no sense from the Marlins' standpoint. Kearns makes $1.85 million. That's huge money in the Marlins' $14.9 million payroll world. And Kearns will get a massive raise in arbitration.

If they were going to move Willis and/or Cabrera, the Marlins could demand the best prospects in the baseball. The Reds don't have the kind of prospects to get the deal done.

Reds-Marlins rumors weren't the only ones out there.

It got to the point that Marlins owner Jeffrey Loria broke with his usual policy of not talking about trades in an effort to end the speculation.

"They are so unfounded as to be ridiculous," Loria told the Miami Herald. "We are not shopping players. We're rebuilding a team here."

What Loria said did little to squelch the ongoing speculation.

It's impossible to un-ring a bell.

So when I walked into Champions Grille the other night, a buddy asked if I'd heard the Reds-Marlins rumor.

"Yes," was my reply. "And, no, it's not true."

My guess is I'll repeat that a lot between now and the trade deadline. A good rumor is easy to start but nearly impossible to kill.

Krivsky had heard the Willis-Cabrera rumor. Heck, word probably got to monks in Tibet.

But Krivsky tries to stay insulated from such talk.

"I don't pay much attention to all the stuff that's on the Internet," he said. Seems like sound advice.



http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060423/COL09/604230421/1071/SPT04

Spitball
04-23-2006, 02:37 PM
I don't agree with John Fay on this one. His reasons for the trade not happening are not based on logic.

His biggest reason is that Kearns makes 1.85 million and will get a huge raise in arbitration.....well, that is about as silly as it gets. Does he really think Miguel Cabrerra is going to get less in arb.? Cabrerra's raise will make Kearns' raise look like pocket change.

And if the Marlins owner is really wanting to keep Willis (who again makes Kearns' current a future salary look like a caddy tip) and Cabrerra, he is willing to spend lots of bucks and the cost of what the Reds might send them is negligible.

The second reason this trade won't work is the Reds don't have the prospects. Again, bunk and double bunk. Few teams are able to trade two young CURRENT ML players and two promising young pitchers, one of whom has already had succes at the ML level. I believe the Reds would have to trade both Wagner and Bailey to get the Marlins to bite.

So you send Kearns, EdwinE, Wagner and Bailey to the Marlins for Willis and Cabrerra. The Reds offense stays about the same, the defense gets better at 3rd and Denorfia is probably a wash with Kearns in RF, but the pitching staff is suddenly set to win right now. Willis, Harang and Arroyo make a pretty decent 1-2-3 punch.


You've argued a good case here. Though I don't believe the Reds will be lucky enough to pull this off, you've convinced me that it is a possibility. Actually, if you substitute Denorfia for Kearns, I believe the trade really could happen. I'd want some bullpen help like Herges, Borowski, or Bump thrown in to help polish the "contender" tag.

Willis alone would sell tickets, but imagine if the Reds were to contend for the wild card. I believe the Reds need to rebuild the fan base.

TylerScottDavis
04-23-2006, 02:58 PM
What if we offered Bailey, Chick, Wagner, EE, and their choice of 2 of Kearns/Denorfia/Bruce. Think that would at least catch their attention?

KronoRed
04-23-2006, 03:19 PM
What if we offered Bailey, Chick, Wagner, EE, and their choice of 2 of Kearns/Denorfia/Bruce. Think that would at least catch their attention?
That would be empty our small farm system of everything :help:

Sea Ray
04-23-2006, 09:45 PM
That would be empty our small farm system of everything :help:

It sure would and who says that we can afford Willis and Cabrerra next year and years beyond? Unless Griffey is dumped, we can't afford those guys. Those 2 Marlins will go to rich teams in exchange for prospects like they always do. This is the way of baseball these days. You have a team trading guys not because they want to trade them but because they can't afford them. We've seen it happen over and over again with Oakland and it may happen again this year with Barry Zito. These talented but expensive players will end up with the "haves" and the have nots will be forced to make do.