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View Full Version : Lineup proposal when Jr. returns



44Magnum
04-21-2006, 09:55 AM
This is not the batting order, just whom I would start on a regular basis:
LF: Jr.
CF: Freel
RF: Kearns
3B: Encarnacion
SS: Lopez
2B: Phillips
1B: Dunn
C: Whomever

What does everyone think? Let's face it, Dunn has to become a 1B and Freel needs to be in the lineup.

HotCorner
04-21-2006, 09:59 AM
Yes. I agree completely. Makes the bench better as well.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 09:59 AM
This is not the batting order, just whom I would start on a regular basis:
LF: Jr.
CF: Freel
RF: Kearns
3B: Encarnacion
SS: Lopez
2B: Phillips
1B: Dunn
C: Whomever

What does everyone think? Let's face it, Dunn has to become a 1B and Freel needs to be in the lineup.

That's just dandy but it is highly unlikely that Dunn is going to move to 1st and Jr. to LF. If they don't then the $64K question is what do you do with Freel and Phillips?

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:00 AM
I think everyone sees it but I am not sure the Reds will. Plus Hatteberg is much worse than I expected at first. He almost trips over himself every time he has to adjust to a throw. He makes Casey look like Hernandez.

44Magnum
04-21-2006, 10:10 AM
The bench would be strengthened with Aurillia and Hatte. Maybe they can package Womack and a catcher for a pitcher as well.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 10:15 AM
I think everyone sees it but I am not sure the Reds will. Plus Hatteberg is much worse than I expected at first. He almost trips over himself every time he has to adjust to a throw. He makes Casey look like Hernandez.

Party line is that he's better than Dunn. I doubt the Reds are going to all of a sudden put Dunn back at 1st after all they said about Mr. Hat's defense being better than Dunn's in ST - although with the incuriousness of the media here they may not have to do any 'splaining.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:16 AM
Party line is that he's better than Dunn. I doubt the Reds are going to all of a sudden put Dunn back at 1st after all they said about Mr. Hat's defense being better than Dunn's in STand Billy Beane referred to him as "a pickin' machine". After watching him play I now realize it was sarcasm(in Billy's case it may have been salemanship).

BuckWoody
04-21-2006, 10:20 AM
This is not the batting order, just whom I would start on a regular basis:
LF: Jr.
CF: Freel
RF: Kearns
3B: Encarnacion
SS: Lopez
2B: Phillips
1B: Dunn
C: Whomever

What does everyone think? Let's face it, Dunn has to become a 1B and Freel needs to be in the lineup.
Yup, that's pretty much the deal right there. I think the chances of it happening are slim though. Personalities and egos enter into it for players and management. You may have to keep Jr. in CF to keep him happy and jerking Dunn between 1B and LF wouldn't help his morale any either.

I'd love to see it happen.

roby
04-21-2006, 10:20 AM
I agree with that lineup completely. Dunn has played first base before, and I do not recall that he was especially bad there. I have also seen Hatteburg for several games now...and he IS especially bad there. The Reds would improve their defense and offense both by moving Griffey to left field, opening up center for Freel (maybe even bringing Denorfia back up and giving him a little playing time there as well), and letting Phillips hopefully become the second baseman that his potential says he can be. I would also trade LaRue for another decent pitcher, put Belisle in the starting rotation, and either move Williams to the bullpen, the DL, or to Louisville. This would all help a lot.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 10:22 AM
That's just dandy but it is highly unlikely that Dunn is going to move to 1st and Jr. to LF. If they don't then the $64K question is what do you do with Freel and Phillips?When that happens, Freel goes to second, and Phillips becomes super-sub.

Red Stocking
04-21-2006, 10:22 AM
I like those defensive positions, to go a step further...

CF: Freel
SS: Lopez
LF: Griffey
1B: Dunn
RF: Kearns
3B: EE
2B: Phillips
C: LaRue/Valintin/Ross


I believe that this would make our defense better, especially since the IF would be throwing to a 6 ft. 6 target with Adam Dunn.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:22 AM
It should be about winning. I think most players would be willing to do what it takes to try to get into the playoff picture because that sure makes the season a lot more fun.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 10:25 AM
and Billy Beane referred to him as "a pickin' machine". After watching him play I now realize it was sarcasm(in Billy's case it may have been salemanship).

Actually I believe it was one of the coaches - Ron Washington - who referred to him like that. I think it was to build his confidence since he wasn't a natural 1B and took some time to get acclimated over there. I don't think anyone ever thought he was particularly good.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 10:28 AM
When that happens, Freel goes to second, and Phillips becomes super-sub.

You sure it won't be the other way around?

Newman4
04-21-2006, 10:32 AM
Anyone concerned with Freel's throwing arm in center?

Chip R
04-21-2006, 10:35 AM
Anyone concerned with Freel's throwing arm in center?
No. I've seen him uncork some beauties out there. Besides, you don't need a great arm to play CF. Just ask Johnny Damon.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 10:36 AM
Anyone concerned with Freel's throwing arm in center?not at all

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 10:48 AM
You sure it won't be the other way around?I hope not. Phillips can't stay white hot forever, and I think that Ryan's numbers will project better over the long haul.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 11:19 AM
I hope not. Phillips can't stay white hot forever, and I think that Ryan's numbers will project better over the long haul.and they both project better than Hatteberg.

Blimpie
04-21-2006, 11:25 AM
and they both project better than Hatteberg.Alright, Mr. Two Steps Backward....I thought we had Dunn at first?? :bang:

My head is starting to hurt..:D

flyer85
04-21-2006, 11:33 AM
Alright, Mr. Two Steps Backward....I thought we had Dunn at first?? :bang:

My head is starting to hurt..:DOk, we do, its the Reds that don't. Around here it never hurts to reinforce the obvious:p:

Highlifeman21
04-21-2006, 12:27 PM
Anyone concerned with Freel's throwing arm in center?


I doubt it's any worse than what Griffey gives us these days. After watching Dunn not throw out IIRC Weeks on that Sac Fly last night (although Valentin's effort or lack thereof to block the plate allowed Dunn's throw to hit Weeks), Freel's arm is the least of our defensive concerns. If anything, I'm concerned with his break on some of the balls hit to him. He seemed to be taking WMP paths to some of them last night, but at least has the speed to not look completely lost like WMP.

toledodan
04-21-2006, 12:44 PM
freel has played left field before. i don't think we would see dunn at first everyday but narron said dunn would play some first this season. the way BP has came along they may be forced into sooner than later.

Reds1
04-21-2006, 01:09 PM
I agree except I'd still have Aurilia in there a lot too. Eitherway you have a good bench.

This will be the team when griffey is back
CF: Griffey
SS: Lopez
LF: Dunn
1B: Hat/Aurilia
RF: Kearns
3B: EE
2B: Freel/Phillips
C: LaRue/Valintin/Ross

At least until a trade is done :)

Does that Arroyo for Mo trade look great now.

GridironGrace
04-21-2006, 01:42 PM
I tottally agree with the lineup except for Freel in CF

he dont have the arm that JR has, nor the range.

LF is perfect for freel though, and dunn on 1B id only agree on after i seen him play there a few times. I havent got to yet.

BRM
04-21-2006, 01:43 PM
I tottally agree with the lineup except for Freel in CF

he dont have the arm that JR has, nor the range.

LF is perfect for freel though, and dunn on 1B id only agree on after i seen him play there a few times. I havent got to yet.

Freel has considerably more range than Junior. It's not even close.

membengal
04-21-2006, 01:46 PM
I tottally agree with the lineup except for Freel in CF

he dont have the arm that JR has, nor the range.

LF is perfect for freel though, and dunn on 1B id only agree on after i seen him play there a few times. I havent got to yet.


Freel has range that at this point that Jr. only can think back on fondly as he recalls his days in the mid 1990s in Seattle...

44Magnum
04-21-2006, 01:46 PM
You gotta play Freel and Phillips together. Those two along with Lopez and Encarnacion gets the Reds away from what they were last year (a station to station team) and the year before that, etc.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 02:53 PM
Dunn to 1st and Freel to CF with JR to LF is the only logical way to do it.

1-8 it would be a great offensive lineup and also pretty decent D.

Of course that has 0 chance of happening, we need the solid vets in the lineup.

GAC
04-21-2006, 04:58 PM
That's just dandy but it is highly unlikely that Dunn is going to move to 1st and Jr. to LF. If they don't then the $64K question is what do you do with Freel and Phillips?

Exactamuendo! ;)

For me, an ideal lineup?....

Freel (LF)
Lopez (SS)
Jr (CF) (he ain't gonna move IMO.... and he does have pull)
Dunn (1B) (He doesn't want to go)
Kearns (RF)
EE (3B)
Phillips (2B)
LaRue (C)


You got speed/OB% at the top of the lineup, followed by your RBI guys. And what I like - if Freel or Lopez struggle, you got speed with EE and Phillips (providing they are hitting). But you have options to tinker if needed.

REDJAKE
04-21-2006, 05:33 PM
I do not want Dunn anywhere he is going to get more action with the ball .The guy is taylor made for the DH and we do not have that so keep him in left where he can do the LEAST AMOUNT OF DAMAGE and still benefit from the guys power but please no 1st base the poor infielders are having enough trouble with throws.GO CINCY!!!!!

buckeyenut
04-22-2006, 07:27 AM
To me the ideal lineup is Jr at 1B, not Dunn. I still firmly believe (despite the ugly start) Dunn will be a solid to above average OF over time, and I want him happy. Then Jr is replaced by Votto just as he is ML ready.

Chip R
04-22-2006, 08:36 AM
I do not want Dunn anywhere he is going to get more action with the ball .The guy is taylor made for the DH and we do not have that so keep him in left where he can do the LEAST AMOUNT OF DAMAGE and still benefit from the guys power but please no 1st base the poor infielders are having enough trouble with throws.GO CINCY!!!!!

Unless the ball is bouncing out of his glove, he will be fine at 1st.

Spitball
04-22-2006, 09:30 AM
First, I don't believe we will see Dunn at first nor Griffey in left. Maybe Narron doesn't want to alienate the clubhouse leaders (as Miley did), or maybe the two are being afforded star status. Whatever the reason, it is highly unlikely either will be moved for "the betterment" of the team. I can live with it and am willing to move on...

That said, maybe it's time to think outside the box here...How do you get Freel and Phillips into the same line-up everyday?

If you don't want to upset the star players by moving them, then move the youngsters. Rotate the infield...

Move Encarnacion to first.
Put Freel at second.
Phillips to short.
Lopez to third.

I believe the defense improves while Freel and Phillips stay in the lineup.

Variation on this same thought would leave Lopez at short and Phillips at second, while Freel plays third and Encarnacion moves to first. However, that option wouldn't really improve the defense.

Crash Davis
04-22-2006, 09:59 AM
I don't think anyone ever thought he was particularly good.

I read an interview with Beane about 2-3 years ago where he said the A's defensive metrics showed Hatteberg as one of the premier defensive 1B in baseball. He said the same thing about Mark Ellis at 2B.

At that time, other defensive metrics were showing both players as below average defensively. I believe Ellis' defensive reputation has probably gotten to the point where it is close to matching the Oakland defensive stats, but Hatteberg's defensive rep never really measured up.

MartyFan
04-22-2006, 10:22 AM
I think everyone sees it but I am not sure the Reds will. Plus Hatteberg is much worse than I expected at first. He almost trips over himself every time he has to adjust to a throw. He makes Casey look like Hernandez.

I am really surprised at how bad he has been at first...Rich has been pretty respectable.

I like the lplayers though I would be willing to bolt Kearns or even Freel in a trade for pitching and bring Denorfia into CF.

reds44
04-22-2006, 10:28 AM
LF Freel
SS FeLo
CF Junior
1B Dunn
RF Kearns
3B EE
2B Phillips
C LaRue

BigRed
04-22-2006, 11:47 AM
There are 2 things to consider, what we'd like to happen and what the Reds will actually do.

I agree that moving Dunn to 1B is the best move. Dunn's biggest problem defensively seems to be misjudging fly balls. At 1B, that is not really an issue. He has got good size for a 1B which is optimal. As long as he can learn to scoop, I think that he would be great there. I really don't think that Dunn would complain that much. He is a team player and will do what's best for the team.

I also love Freel and Phillips both in the lineup. Defensively, Phillips is better than Freel at 2B. I think that Freel's best position is OF, whether it be left or center. I don't think that Griffey would be as willing to move. Therefore, I would have Dunn at 1B, Freel in LF, Phillips at 2B, and Griffey in CF.

However, I don't think that the Reds will make the moves. For whatever the reason, I think that they are set with Hatteberg and Aurilia at 1B. They will end up leaving things status quo and moving Phillips, Freel, and Aurilia in and out at 2B.