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max venable
04-21-2006, 01:34 PM
Are you as irritated as I am?

http://images.usatoday.com/money/_photos/2006/04/21/gas-prices.jpg
It's currently $2.89 where I live. The word on the news channels is that we can expect gas prices to be around $3.50 by Memorial Day and then stay over $3 for the summer.

ARE YOU KIDDING ME?

Feel free to get your frustrations out in this thread...

pedro
04-21-2006, 01:41 PM
Glad I only have to fill my car up about once a month.

flyer85
04-21-2006, 01:44 PM
Are you as irritated as I am?Nah, my horse don't seem to care either.

BuckeyeRed27
04-21-2006, 01:46 PM
Just buy the stock of oil companies or energy mutual funds.

savafan
04-21-2006, 01:52 PM
Yeah, I'm irritated. Especially since there seems to be no good reason for it. For fear of getting political, I'll shut up now.

westofyou
04-21-2006, 01:55 PM
Especially since there seems to be no good reason for it.

It comes from the earth and costs money to make.

BRM
04-21-2006, 01:57 PM
Glad I only have to fill my car up about once a month.

I have to fill up at least twice per week.

pedro
04-21-2006, 02:00 PM
I have to fill up at least twice per week.

I don't miss that. I used to put 300-400 miles a week on my car when I lived in Atlanta.

Not to mention spending 2 hours a day in the car.

savafan
04-21-2006, 02:03 PM
I have to fill up at least twice per week.

Ditto

BRM
04-21-2006, 02:08 PM
I don't miss that. I used to put 300-400 miles a week on my car when I lived in Atlanta.

Not to mention spending 2 hours a day in the car.

I have a 35 mile commute each way. Luckily, it's almost all highway miles so my fuel mileage is pretty decent. Well, decent for an F250. Takes me about 40 minutes.

pedro
04-21-2006, 02:09 PM
I've put 6,000 miles on my car in the last three years. It's a nice change.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 02:10 PM
I've put 6,000 miles on my car in the last three years. It's a nice change.

That would be nice. I'm averaging around 13,000/yr on my car now.

Really wish I could cut that down a little.

BRM
04-21-2006, 02:11 PM
I used to have a short commute when I lived in town. I certainly don't miss the traffic but it did keep the miles off the car. Either way, I'm much happier where I am now.

beb30
04-21-2006, 02:17 PM
At least we dont live in say......England where it costs even more.....

reds1869
04-21-2006, 02:18 PM
If that's true I'm glad my wife and I are both teachers and have the summer off. We still drive then of course, but not as much as during the academic year.

On a related note, it is good schools don't have to run bus services during the summer. We better pray to God prices drop before late August. If you think there are too many operating levies now...

registerthis
04-21-2006, 02:19 PM
Ahh, trasnportation would be so much more epxensive if I still lived in Columbus.

The Washington Metro is my best friend right now...when I can actually get a seat on the train, that is.

paintmered
04-21-2006, 02:22 PM
That would be nice. I'm averaging around 13,000/yr on my car now.

Really wish I could cut that down a little.

I've put 30,000 on mine since January 2004. Fortunatly I only have one more summer of heavy driving. I should be able to move to within a few miles of my workplace after I graduate. I don't have buses reaching to where I live so I don't have any choices. Even as expensive as gas is, it is still cheaper for me to pay for the gas than a short-term lease closer to my employer.

westofyou
04-21-2006, 02:25 PM
I've put 30,000 on mine since January 2004.

40K in the last 5 years here.

registerthis
04-21-2006, 02:30 PM
45 K in 3.5 years.

Ugh.

All those DC-Ohio-DC drives will kill ya.

paintmered
04-21-2006, 02:48 PM
40K in the last 5 years here.

I only commute six months out of the year. So I'll be very glad after this summer is over and won't have to commute 45 minutes anymore.

max venable
04-21-2006, 02:50 PM
Just bought a motorcycle two days ago. So I'll be riding that and using less gas this summer.

Caveat Emperor
04-21-2006, 02:57 PM
Ahh, trasnportation would be so much more epxensive if I still lived in Columbus.

The Washington Metro is my best friend right now...when I can actually get a seat on the train, that is.

I miss the Ghetro more and more these days. I used to complain about the price of a subway ride from West Falls Church to Union Station when I was in high school, but that's a drop in the bucket next to what driving would cost me if if I was commuting into the city. Heck -- a drop in the bucket for compared to what I spent commuting into Cincinnati this summer.

Plus, as a bonus, you can sleep on the train on the morning commute. Every city should have a mass transit system in this country. It's phenomenolly shortsighted of cities like Cincinnati to keep killing plans to do so as gas prices creep higher and higher.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 03:01 PM
At least we dont live in say......England where it costs even more.....
National Health Service..lucky brits ;)

Cyclone792
04-21-2006, 03:07 PM
40K in the last 5 years here.

75K miles in the last five years for me. That's what commuting to both school and work did.

Thankfully I drive a 1.9L four cylinder and get good gas mileage. In fact, on my last tank of gas I averaged just over 32 mpg. I don't even want to know what it's like for people driving vehicles that barely reach 20mpg.

BRM
04-21-2006, 03:12 PM
I don't even want to know what it's like for people driving vehicles that barely reach 20mpg.

:wave:

westofyou
04-21-2006, 03:15 PM
http://robots.cnn.com/2006/AUTOS/04/19/good_fuel_misers/index.html

Best cars with great gas mileage

CNNMoney and Edmunds.com select the top cars to buy that are smart buys and easy on fuel.

NEW YORK (CNNMoney.com) - You find plenty of lists out there of cars that get the best fuel economy. Those lists are easy to produce, but they aren't really of much use.

For example, the most fuel-efficient car on the market today is the Honda Insight, but do you really want to buy a rough-riding two-seater with no storage space? After all, you probably need your car to do more than just get you from one place to another. You might like to carry a few other people or some luggage. You might even want a little driving enjoyment from all those miles you're driving with each fill-up.

We worked with Edmunds.com, the people who provide automotive data and content for CNN's automotive Web sites, to select vehicles in five categories that get very good fuel mileage but that are also otherwise outstanding automotive values. There's no point to buying a fuel-efficient car that doesn't pay off in other ways.

We've selected five -- a luxury car, family sedan, sports car, crossover SUV and a subcompact -- that are smart buys and easy on fuel. For each category, we've also mentioned two alternatives.

None of the top cars are hybrids. That's because, with their added cost, hybrids aren't really a good value from a purely economic standpoint. But we've provided a hybrid choice in some categories for those who are willing to pay more to burn less fuel.

One thing you'll notice is that Toyota is well represented on this list. That's because Toyota does two things particularly well. They build high-quality cars by every measure and cars that are very fuel-efficient. On a list like this, Toyota is bound to come out on top.


LIST

http://money.cnn.com/popups/2006/autos/fuel_efficient/frameset_cnn.exclude.html

BRM
04-21-2006, 03:17 PM
I've thought about buying a 3rd car to save some fuel money and miles on my truck. I'm not sure forking over the money to buy another car and paying the additional insurance costs would be worth it though.

RedsFan75
04-21-2006, 03:22 PM
Reminds me of the 70's when economy started to become the big issue, and cars got smaller and more efficient.

Red Leader
04-21-2006, 03:27 PM
It's a conspiracy. The government is trying to force us to go to hybrid and then electric cars by jacking up the price of gas.

I'm onto you!

RFS62
04-21-2006, 03:33 PM
20 - 25K miles per year.

Ouch.

KronoRed
04-21-2006, 03:34 PM
It's a conspiracy. The government is trying to force us to go to hybrid and then electric cars by jacking up the price of gas.

I'm onto you!
No no..the conspiracy is the gas companies are trying to force us all to STOP talking hybrid and electric cars, then they will drop the prices.

It's all the MAN keepings us down.

Matt700wlw
04-21-2006, 04:10 PM
Glad I only have to fill my car up about once a month.

Me too...moving 6 miles from work was a good move on my part.

RedsFan75
04-21-2006, 04:13 PM
No no..the conspiracy is the gas companies are trying to force us all to STOP talking hybrid and electric cars, then they will drop the prices.

It's all the MAN keepings us down.

No No No.. it's the anti-SUV/Anti-Muscle car group getting us to all go smaller!

Then they'll drop the prices...

Coffeybro
04-21-2006, 04:18 PM
I'm going to need a no interst loan from Todd to cover my gas if it gets and stays that high. :angry: I live about 45 miles from work. Unfortunately wife will not move closer.

Chip R
04-21-2006, 04:31 PM
I'm going to need a no interst loan from Todd to cover my gas if it gets and stays that high. :angry: I live about 45 miles from work. Unfortunately wife will not move closer.

Get a new wife. It will be cheaper. ;)

Johnny Footstool
04-21-2006, 04:59 PM
None of the top cars are hybrids. That's because, with their added cost, hybrids aren't really a good value from a purely economic standpoint. But we've provided a hybrid choice in some categories for those who are willing to pay more to burn less fuel.

...assuming gas prices don't continue to rise.

If they do, you're better off paying the extra up-front cost for a hybrid.

savafan
04-22-2006, 12:14 AM
It comes from the earth and costs money to make.

I know it costs money to make, but $75.19 a barrel for crude is ridiculous.

When my head hits the pillow tonight, I will dream of destroying all SUVs and nuking China.

KronoRed
04-22-2006, 12:15 AM
I know it costs money to make, but $75.19 a barrel for crude is ridiculous.

When my head hits the pillow tonight, I will dream of destroying all SUVs and nuking China.
Don't forget India.

WMR
04-22-2006, 12:20 AM
Don't forget India.


And Iran.

And Syria.

Wait.
Nevermind.
(nm)

savafan
04-22-2006, 12:21 AM
Here's what will happen next.

The price of food will go up.
The price of heating and cooling your home will go up.
The price of clothing will go up.
The price of public transportation will go up to meet with demand.
The price of air travel will go up.
The price of everything else will go up.

It's like dominoes, one falls and it starts a chain reaction.

KronoRed
04-22-2006, 12:28 AM
Then the underclass will take up arms and overthrow the government.

It will not be televised.

Caveat Emperor
04-22-2006, 12:35 AM
Here's what will happen next.

Consumers will balk at the high prices and reduce their discretionary driving in order to convserve fuel. Demand dips, and prices follow down to a lower (albeit still high) level.

The trouble is, gas is still (at the present time) too affordable. We won't start seeing all the non-gasoline technology emerge until the market dictates that it's cheaper to produce and sell those to consumers than it is to sell current gasoline-running cars.

The government should just issue a mandate the way they did with HDTV. Nobody was willingly going to switch over to HD technology because it was just too damned expensive -- it was destined to become the Laser Disc (affordable only to a select few while everyone else waited for the next generation of technology) of our time until the government forced manufacturers and broacasters to be completely HD complient by a certain date (2009, I believe). They should do the same with cars -- pass a law outlawing the sale of hydrocarbon based cars by 2015 and put requirements for production percentage (20% of all models must be compliant by 2009, 30% by 2010, etc.) and let the industry figure out how to meet the deadline.

savafan
04-22-2006, 12:36 AM
Then the underclass will take up arms and overthrow the government.



They'd be wrong, they need to take up arms and overthrow the upperclass. Like the reign of Louis XVI of France, one of the biggest culprits here are the aristocracy and their need to live to excess.

Although something is fishy when Exxon turns it's largest profit ever and their outgoing chairman gets a $400 million retirement package.

KronoRed
04-22-2006, 12:44 AM
The government should just issue a mandate the way they did with HDTV. Nobody was willingly going to switch over to HD technology because it was just too damned expensive -- it was destined to become the Laser Disc (affordable only to a select few while everyone else waited for the next generation of technology) of our time until the government forced manufacturers and broacasters to be completely HD complient by a certain date (2009, I believe). They should do the same with cars -- pass a law outlawing the sale of hydrocarbon based cars by 2015 and put requirements for production percentage (20% of all models must be compliant by 2009, 30% by 2010, etc.) and let the industry figure out how to meet the deadline.
Great idea but sadly it will never happen, those huge profits Sava mentioned come right to Washington with the lobbyists, and the short sighted will see to it that we stay with oil till everything collapses.

savafan
04-22-2006, 12:51 AM
This certainly won't help matters any.

http://www.philly.com/mld/philly/news/14391807.htm


By Harold Brubaker, Edward Colimore and Marc Schogol
Inquirer Staff Writers

As if rising prices weren't enough, the tanks have run dry at some Philadelphia-area service stations in the last few days as the refining industry stumbles through a change in the formulation of gasoline.

Oil refiners are phasing out a petrochemical that makes gasoline burn cleaner but which also has been found to contaminate groundwater. Refiners are switching to corn-based ethanol.

The changeover is creating supply-chain bottlenecks because much work must be done at fuel terminals and service stations to handle ethanol.

The maintenance-related shutdown of one area refinery, production problems at another, and the change from winter-blend to summer-blend gasoline are exacerbating the problems.

"There is truly a dearth of supply in the Philly and New York markets today," Wayne Hummel, of Liberty Petroleum L.L.C., said yesterday. His firm supplies 40 stations in the Philadelphia region.

Hummel said four Liberty stations had run out of fuel the last two days, as tanker trucks drove from terminal to terminal, unable to find fuel. "It's ugly. It's very ugly," he said.

AAA Mid-Atlantic warned drivers yesterday that gasoline-supply disruptions could continue for the next few weeks and contribute to higher pump prices.

The group said the average gasoline price in Philadelphia and its Pennsylvania suburbs had climbed 52 cents a gallon - or 22 percent - to $2.85 since the most recent upturn began on March 7. In South Jersey, yesterday's average was $2.71 a gallon, an 18 percent increase from a month ago. A key benchmark price for crude oil on the New York Mercantile Exchange yesterday was $71.95 a barrel, up more than $10 from a month ago.

Catherine Rossi, spokeswoman for AAA, said she knew of eight stations in the region that were out of fuel yesterday.

Areas of Virginia and Texas, also going through the ethanol conversion, have experienced similar supply disruptions, said Jeff Lenard, spokesman for the National Association of Convenience Stores.

Locally, gas retailers said scheduled deliveries had been late - sometimes up to a day or more - causing them to turn customers away.

Lou Stiles' Sunoco service station in Mount Laurel ran out of gas at least four times this month. Yesterday afternoon, he ran out of regular and was waiting for a tanker.

"We're a 24-hour operation and pay two men to stay on when there's nothing to do but wait for a load of gas," said Stiles, who has operated the station at Route 38 and Hartford Road for 40 years.

As of 6:25 p.m., cones were blocking the gas lanes at the station.

Jai Kulkarni, owner of a Lukoil station and Kwik Farms convenience store on Route 23 in West Conshohocken, said he was out of gas for about four hours Wednesday. He kept the convenience store open, but he closed the pumps - at a cost of $200 an hour in lost sales.

At that station yesterday was Vinnie Zambuto, a 31-year-old graphic designer from Coatesville who said he had never seen a dry gas station before encountering one last week. Recalling the gas shortages of the 1970s that his "parents keep talking about," he said he hoped the new shortages were short-lived.

"I'm hoping it will work itself out."

The conversion to ethanol was prompted by the federal Energy Policy Act of 2005, which left refiners vulnerable to groundwater contamination suits and mandated greater use of renewable fuels. The use of ethanol forced gasoline retailers to clean their tanks, remove all water from them and install extremely fine filters on their pumps.

Ethanol is a solvent that picks up any gunk in tanks and readily blends with water. Those properties could ruin a 9,000-gallon tank of gasoline at a huge cost to a retailer.

It costs up to $1,500 to clean tanks, said Kevin S. Kan, president and chief executive officer of American Auto Wash Inc. in Malvern, which operates 18 stations in the region, including 13 BPs that have converted to the ethanol blend.

Ethanol is logistically more complicated than the petrochemical it replaced - MTBE, or methyl tertiary butyl ether. Refiners could blend MTBE into gasoline at the refinery and send the finished gasoline through pipelines to terminals.

But ethanol must be blended into gasoline at the terminal because it would mix with water if it were sent through pipelines, ruining the fuel. So, fuel terminals have to go through a similar process of cleaning tanks to store ethanol before it is blended.

They must also install blending equipment.

Independent gasoline distributors said few fuel terminals had gas yesterday. Those that did, such as the former Exxon terminal in South Philadelphia now owned by Pacific Energy Partners L.P., had trucks waiting four hours for fuel because the terminal was filling trucks in only two of the five lanes that they use normally. "We are doing our best to activate the others," said Jennifer Shigei, manager of investor relations for the Long Beach, Calif., company.

The three companies that operate refineries on the Delaware River - Sunoco Inc., Valero Energy Corp., and ConocoPhillips - declined to discuss the supply situation in much detail.

Valero spokeswoman Mary Rose Brown said the company's Paulsboro refinery began blending ethanol yesterday, but did not respond to a question about a disruption there this week.

Shannon Breuer, a spokeswoman for Sunoco, said the company was "focused on being a reliable supplier" and was confident that any problems would be short-term.

NDRed
04-22-2006, 03:17 AM
I have an old friend who owns a gas station and also owns an auto sales lot and he always says; "20 year ago I pumped gasoline at 1.20 per gallon into a car that costs 8,000 dollars new, now I pump gasoline at 2.50 per gallon into a car that cost 35,000 dollars but nobody talks about the price of cars."

RedsBaron
04-22-2006, 07:51 AM
I drive probably 12,000-15,000 miles a year, most of it business related. I drive either a 2000 Ford Ranger 4X4 that gets around 16-18 mpg, or a 1992 Corvette that gets about 22-25 mpg (I'm amazed by the Vette's mileage). My wife racks up 15,000+ miles a year doing volunteer work and ferrying the kids to all their activities. Her 2005 Pacifica gets about 18 mpg.

MrCinatit
04-22-2006, 08:46 AM
I walk to work :D
However, even then, I am paying. The price of groceries is slowly crawling up.

westofyou
04-22-2006, 10:04 AM
I know it costs money to make, but $75.19 a barrel for crude is ridiculous. Based on what criteria?

Destroying the earth's health is ridiculous, yet it goes on everyday.

BTW Happy Earth Day.

SandyD
04-22-2006, 10:28 AM
I'm really hoping for a push for public transportation here as part of the rebuilding. Some people are settling in outlying areas between here and Baton Rouge, and across the lake. Not to mention the growth at Baton Rouge.

I'd like to see commuter rail service from Baton Rouge to Biloxi at least. Maybe even extending it to Pensacola eventually.

Thing is, it would take a change in culture to get people to use it. Even with the traffic congestion we have now, I'm not sure people are ready for it.

I am glad to see the the plans being offered for rebuilding St Bernard include light rail service locally. Not sure the plans will be accepted, but I kind of liked what I saw.

macro
04-22-2006, 11:16 AM
Here's what will happen next.

The price of food will go up.
The price of heating and cooling your home will go up.
The price of clothing will go up.
The price of public transportation will go up to meet with demand.
The price of air travel will go up.
The price of everything else will go up.

It's like dominoes, one falls and it starts a chain reaction.

This is no great economics lesson that I'm about to share, but to follow up on what sava is saying...

A family that drives two vechicles a combined average of 2,500 miles a month (we do that) and gets 20MPG will use 125 gallons of gas per month. With the price of that gas being $1.50 more than it was recently, that family will spend $187.50/month more on gas.

That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward eating out, which will put the squeeze on restaurants and their employees. That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward the purchase of a new TV, boat, motorcycle, or furniture, which will lower the incomes of people in those industries at the same time they're having to devote more of their budgets to gas. People that used to pay $40 a week to have their lawn mowed will now do it themselves, putting the crunch on those who mow lawns for a living. As sava has already said, everything we buy will go up because of the added cost of transporting it, and this will happen at the same time that people have less money to spend in the first place.

The bottom line is that we are headed for a recession, and a long one, as our society adjusts to the reality of extreme gas prices.

BuckeyeRed27
04-22-2006, 01:05 PM
This is no great economics lesson that I'm about to share, but to follow up on what sava is saying...

A family that drives two vechicles a combined average of 2,500 miles a month (we do that) and gets 20MPG will use 125 gallons of gas per month. With the price of that gas being $1.50 more than it was recently, that family will spend $187.50/month more on gas.

That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward eating out, which will put the squeeze on restaurants and their employees. That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward the purchase of a new TV, boat, motorcycle, or furniture, which will lower the incomes of people in those industries at the same time they're having to devote more of their budgets to gas. People that used to pay $40 a week to have their lawn mowed will now do it themselves, putting the crunch on those who mow lawns for a living. As sava has already said, everything we buy will go up because of the added cost of transporting it, and this will happen at the same time that people have less money to spend in the first place.

The bottom line is that we are headed for a recession, and a long one, as our society adjusts to the reality of extreme gas prices.


I think that you are right in some ways here. However the price of gas has been pretty high here for a while and the economy is still doing pretty well. People will still spend money to live the way they want. People will save even less than they already do and probably add on more debt. Gas, even at $3+ a gallon is still affordable for most of the middle class to still do things like eat out, buy stuff they don't really need, etc. I think there will be some slow down in the economy if gas stays this high, but not a long recession.

Dom Heffner
04-22-2006, 02:06 PM
If I were in charge, I'd get on the phone to the middle east and tell them to open up the spigots.

KronoRed
04-22-2006, 02:44 PM
I think that you are right in some ways here. However the price of gas has been pretty high here for a while and the economy is still doing pretty well. People will still spend money to live the way they want. People will save even less than they already do and probably add on more debt. Gas, even at $3+ a gallon is still affordable for most of the middle class to still do things like eat out, buy stuff they don't really need, etc. I think there will be some slow down in the economy if gas stays this high, but not a long recession.
Trouble with people saving less to keep living the way they want is that when the hard times come they will be worse because the people who lose their jobs or are deep in debt will have nothing to fall back on.

LawFive
04-22-2006, 05:51 PM
If I were in charge, I'd get on the phone to the middle east and tell them to open up the spigots.

Supply really isn't the problem. All the crude in the world does no good when you don't have the facilities to refine it. According to this week's US News, here in the US we are still 25% below normal refining capacity due to plants being shut down from the hurricanes last year.

dman
04-22-2006, 06:17 PM
It comes from the earth and costs money to make.
So does the natural gas used for heating and there's only son much that they can charge for it.

dman
04-22-2006, 06:30 PM
This is no great economics lesson that I'm about to share, but to follow up on what sava is saying...

A family that drives two vechicles a combined average of 2,500 miles a month (we do that) and gets 20MPG will use 125 gallons of gas per month. With the price of that gas being $1.50 more than it was recently, that family will spend $187.50/month more on gas.

That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward eating out, which will put the squeeze on restaurants and their employees. That's $187.50 a month that won't go toward the purchase of a new TV, boat, motorcycle, or furniture, which will lower the incomes of people in those industries at the same time they're having to devote more of their budgets to gas. People that used to pay $40 a week to have their lawn mowed will now do it themselves, putting the crunch on those who mow lawns for a living. As sava has already said, everything we buy will go up because of the added cost of transporting it, and this will happen at the same time that people have less money to spend in the first place.

The bottom line is that we are headed for a recession, and a long one, as our society adjusts to the reality of extreme gas prices.

Macro, I'll also add that a lot of people soon won't be able to afford to drive to work because their wages won't be enough to cover their fuel costs. I've spent a lot of time in rural Southeastern Ohio. Since a lot of the strip mine went under, most people commute to Columbus from as far away as place like Marietta. The jobs they are doing a lot of times are construction jobs that, if they lived in Columbus, would be mediocre paying jobs at best. Now I know people would say "why don't they move to Columbus or whatever city they are commuting to", but we all know that's easier said than done. What I feel is the same thing that Macro said, except I feel gas prices will be the demise of our economy. People won't be able to afford to drive to work, so people will be jobless, won't have the money to spend on things and the ripple effect will begin.

westofyou
04-22-2006, 07:39 PM
So does the natural gas used for heating and there's only son much that they can charge for it.
Some day they'll be able to charge more.

SeeinRed
04-24-2006, 03:14 PM
Update: Gas prices in Cincinnati could jump up to $3.10 today. Now, I'll admidt I haven't really read most of this thread, I'm sure sombody mentioned that oil companies turned the largest profits ever last year. Oil giants continue to be the largest companies in America and the heads of the companies are some of the richest people in the world. The craziest thing is that these companies continue to run prices up while the government turns its head. Politicians promise action, but nothing ever comes of it because of the influence the oil companies have on American politics. I'm not a conspiracy theorist (I believe we really did land on the moon), but this is rediculous. Not only do gas prices affect how you and I get around, but it drives up the prices of absolutely everything. Again, I'm not an economist, but I don't believe that working wages are keeping up with the rise in gas prices, and concequently, rising prices in everything else. Everyone keeps saying that the economy is strong despite gas prices, but the economy doesn't respond immediately, it has a delayed response. Once the employers are forced to raise wages, and the Inflation really accelerates, there will be problems.

Sorry, I got a little carried away. My time would have been better spent doing this: :bang: It may not have solved the oil crisis, but I sure wouldn't remember what I'm so mad about.

pedro
04-24-2006, 03:18 PM
So does the natural gas used for heating and there's only son much that they can charge for it.


and I can tell you that NG prices jumped quite a bit this past winter (at least out here)

dman
04-24-2006, 10:15 PM
On a related note and without going political, President Bush has ordered a probe into the gas prices, although this is likely going to be political lip service.

LoganBuck
04-24-2006, 10:57 PM
On a related note and without going political, President Bush has ordered a probe into the gas prices, although this is likely going to be political lip service.

Yawn, so did Clinton back in 2000 when the price hit (insert gasp) $2.00.

I can warn this, diesel fuel is just as expensive as gasoline, and while farmers don't have to pay the highway taxes, they are starting to go to the fields. The price of their fuel is going to impact your wallets, or if it doesn't your stomachs next year when they have been run out of farming.

Caveat Emperor
04-24-2006, 11:32 PM
On a related note and without going political, President Bush has ordered a probe into the gas prices, although this is likely going to be political lip service.

It's all political lip service until they get their tracking polls out in the field and find out that gas prices are high on most Americans "list 'o concerns" on a national level.

One party or the other will figure out a way to play this up and make an issue out of it. Then it'll move from political lip service to hot button, attack ads, election fodder...and then back to political lip service again.

Words like "investigation" , "proble" , "price fixing" and "gouging" are going to be in everyone's common vernacular this time 6 months from now.

KronoRed
04-24-2006, 11:39 PM
Vote for me..I'll lower gas prices

Krono for Congress :D

OldRightHander
04-24-2006, 11:49 PM
I can tell you about feeling the pinch. We have three vehicles, although one doesn't get driven that often. My wife commutes 30 miles one way to work. We put over 30k miles on our Sonata in the first year we owned it. We have a Corolla that neither one of us likes to drive much, so it sits there most of the time. In the evenings, I am a financial advisor, having to drive to clients' houses and what not, and during the day I drive our cargo van for an expediting company. Between my wife driving the Sonata to work and back during the day and me using it to meet clients in the evenings, we rack up some serious miles on that car. The real killer is the van. It costs over $70 to fill the tank in that thing and I go through half a tank a day. So on average we spend over $200 a week in gasoline. Last week we spent about $275 because I did a couple out of town runs and ran up some serious miles. It's nothing to log over 1000 miles a week on the van and probably 300 on the car. When the gas prices go up, something else has to be sacrificed, usually eating out, but we can't cut back on the gas consumption unless I quit the daytime driving job which supplements my other work rather nicely. If gas gets too expensive though, I might have to consider trading in the van for something with the same cargo capacity but with better mileage. I don't know if there is actually gouging going on, but it's rather frustrating nonetheless.

RBA
04-25-2006, 07:56 AM
Deleted.

RBA
04-25-2006, 09:09 AM
Deleted.

registerthis
04-25-2006, 10:01 AM
Supply really isn't the problem. All the crude in the world does no good when you don't have the facilities to refine it. According to this week's US News, here in the US we are still 25% below normal refining capacity due to plants being shut down from the hurricanes last year.

That's very true, which is why I don't understand why companies that are raking in excessive profits hand over foot don't re-invest that money to develop additional refining capacity.

Oh, that's right, it's not in their economic interests to do so. Never mind, then.

registerthis
04-25-2006, 10:03 AM
And if I were your Vice President, I would call in the leaders of energy industry to write our new energy policy. :help:

Hey now, be fair RBA. How's a lil 'ol company like ExxonMobil supposed to fund their own exploratory drilling when they're only bringing in $40 billion in profits per year? It's not fair to place that burden on them. tax breaks for all!

Puffy
04-25-2006, 10:09 AM
The real issue should be this - car manufacturers have the technology to make all cars, even SUV's, more gas-efficient. If they wanted to they could mandate all new cars sold must get 30 mpg minimum.

The reason they won't do that is because it would make car companies have to pay to develop this new technology and because oil company lobbyists fight on the car companies side because they don't want more fuel efficent cars cause it will cut into their profits.

So you have two large groups, both xtremely powerful, who won't let this go thru.

Make cars more fuel efficient and get working on other energy sources. Thats the solutions we need - but we won't get them til things get much worse then they are now.

westofyou
04-25-2006, 10:10 AM
Look up in the sky.... it's a bird, it's a plane....

It's THE DECIDER!!!

macro
04-25-2006, 11:30 AM
A talking head on TV last night said that prices would have to reach at least $4 per gallon before demand leveled out, and that we'd have to see $5 before people starting taking drastic steps to reduce their consumption.

savafan
04-25-2006, 12:58 PM
I've seen it written where if every gas consumer would cut their usage by as little as 3%, it would be enough to raise supply and lower demand so that a decrease in price would be necessary.

Sad that it will never happen though.

savafan
04-25-2006, 01:35 PM
On a related note and without going political, President Bush has ordered a probe into the gas prices, although this is likely going to be political lip service.

Put the heat on 'em

http://www.ksbitv.com/home/2689681.html

OldRightHander
04-27-2006, 08:55 PM
What percentage of the price per gallon is made up of taxes? What is the government's "profit" on the gas sold. I would venture a guess that it's more than 40 billion.

RBA
04-27-2006, 09:11 PM
Deleted.

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-27-2006, 10:29 PM
try living in middletown and working in covington.........:( my kingdom for a transporter room like on star trek

KronoRed
04-27-2006, 11:32 PM
try living in middletown and working in covington.........:( my kingdom for a transporter room like on star trek
Or a bullet train.

savafan
04-28-2006, 02:35 AM
What percentage of the price per gallon is made up of taxes? What is the government's "profit" on the gas sold. I would venture a guess that it's more than 40 billion.

According to this article, the federal tax is 18.4 cents per gallon.

http://apnews.myway.com/article/20060428/D8H8MRGOB.html

kbrake
04-28-2006, 10:12 AM
I've seen it written where if every gas consumer would cut their usage by as little as 3%, it would be enough to raise supply and lower demand so that a decrease in price would be necessary.

Sad that it will never happen though.

I will probaly stay away from this because I think this is a political issue, but I really think this has nothing to do with supply and demand. Not saying they should or should not, but dont be suprised if within at the least a year oil companies have their wish and are drilling in Alaska and wherever else they see fit. Some day soon someone will ask the citizens of this country to allow them to do so, because it will increase supply, they will never mention the state of the refineries, and we will cave because we will be willing to give up anything for lower prices. In the end oil companies get more oil which equals more money. Ok tried to keep that non political sorry if it was too much.

registerthis
04-28-2006, 12:59 PM
A talking head on TV last night said that prices would have to reach at least $4 per gallon before demand leveled out, and that we'd have to see $5 before people starting taking drastic steps to reduce their consumption.

I can entirly buy that. $3 a gallon, as much as as it hurts to see, is still too cheap for us. I burn through about 10 gallons of gas a week, so that's $30 a week for me in gas. More than I spent before, but certainly within the realm of what's affordable for me. Now, if you up that to $50 or $60/week, now we're talking some serious cash.

savafan
04-29-2006, 02:16 AM
2 new gas related stories, that I don't believe are political.

http://www.breitbart.com/news/2006/04/28/060428150248.kurimp3k.html

Anglo-Dutch oil group Royal Dutch Shell has announced plans to make its jointly owned Motiva refinery in Port Arthur, Texas, the biggest in the United States.

Shell founded the Motiva refiniery in 1998 with Saudi Refining and is considering increasing the output at the facility by 325,000 barrels per day.

"The project would make the Port Arthur Refinery the largest in the country," Shell said in a statement on Friday.

Output would rise to 610,000 barrels per day, higher than the 557,000 barrels per day produced by the ExxonMobil facility in Baytown, Texas, the current biggest in the country.

"Pending necessary regulatory approvals, Motiva would expect to initiate final engineering later in 2006 and begin construction in 2007," said Shell, while underlining that a final decision to expand the facility had not been taken.

"The new capacity would be projected to come online in 2010."

A shortage of refining capacity worldwide has been identified as one of the reasons behind the recent surge in crude oil prices. Oil companies have been accused of failing to invest adequately in new facilities.


http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20060428/ap_on_bi_ge/earns_chevron_3



By MICHAEL LIEDTKE, AP Business Writer Fri Apr 28, 10:20 AM ET

SAN RAMON, Calif. - Chevron Corp.'s first-quarter profit soared 49 percent to $4 billion, joining the procession of U.S. oil companies to report colossal earnings as lawmakers consider ways to pacify motorists agitated about rising gas prices.

Chevron released its results Friday after two of its biggest rivals, ConocoPhillips and Exxon Mobil Corp., already provoked public outrage with similarly large first-quarter profits. Combined, the three oil companies earned $15.7 billion during the first three months of the year.

San Ramon, Calif.-based Chevron's net income for the three months ended in March translated into $1.80 per share, two cents above the average estimate among analysts polled by Thomson Financial. It compared to a profit of $2.7 billion, or $1.28 per share, in the same January-March period last year.

Revenue totaled $54.6 billion, a 31 percent increase from $41.6 billion last year.

Investors cheered the results as Chevron shares gained $1.22, or 2 percent, to $61.20 in early trading on the
New York Stock Exchange.

If not for continuing production problems caused by Hurricanes Katrina and Rita last summer, Chevron said it would have made an additional $300 million an amount that would have generated the highest quarterly profit in the company's 127-year history.

As it was, the performance marked the fourth consecutive quarter that Chevron has earned at least $3.6 billion as the company continued to capitalize on oil prices that have climbed above $70 per barrel since the first quarter ended.

The run-up recently has pushed gasoline prices above $3 per gallon, much to the frustration of consumers straining to pay their bills and politicians looking to win votes in an election year.

As Congress discusses tax changes that threaten to crimp the industry's profits, oil executives have been emphasizing that their companies have been investing in projects that will eventually increase oil supplies something that could help lower prices.

Chevron raised its capital and exploratory budget by 76 percent in the first quarter to $3 billion. The company also it acquired a 5 percent stake in a joint venture that plans to build a refinery in Jamnagar, India that could process up to 580,000 barrels of oil per day. Chevron is considering boosting its stake in that refinery to 29 percent.

"Our company is in an excellent position to continue adding value for our stockholders and helping to satisfy the energy needs of the world economies," Chevron Chairman David O'Reilly said.

savafan
04-29-2006, 05:16 AM
Here is some interesting data concerning gas prices around the world in US dollars/gallon. Both sets of data come from CNN.


Nation City Price
UK TEESIDE $5.64
HONG KONG HONG KONG $5.62
UK MILFORD HAVEN $5.56
UK READING $5.56
UK NORWICH $5.54
GERMANY FRANKFURT $5.29
DENMARK COPENHAGEN $5.08
NORWAY STAVANGER $5.07
NORWAY OSLO $4.93
ITALY ROME $4.86
TURKEY ISTANBUL $4.85
PORTUGAL LISBON $4.80
KOREA SEOUL $4.71
SWITZERLAND GENEVA $4.56
KOREA KOJE/OKPO $4.53
AUSTRIA VIENNA $4.50
CROATIA ZAGREB $4.32
JAPAN TOKYO $3.84
AUSTRALIA SYDNEY $2.63
CAMBODIA PHNOM PENH $2.57
TAIWAN TAIPEI $2.47
GEORGIA TBILISI $2.31
LAOS VIENTIANE $1.66
THAILAND BANGKOK $1.60
CHINA TIANJIN $1.54
CHINA SHANGHAI $1.48
RUSSIA MOSCOW $1.45
KAZAKHSTAN ALMATY $1.36
KAZAKHSTAN ATYRAU $1.35
TAJIKISTAN DUSHANBE $1.32
AZERBAIJAN BAKU $1.15
VENEZUELA CARACAS $0.14

The main factor in price disparities between countries is government policy, according to AirInc, a company that tracks the cost of living in various places around the world. Many European nations tax gasoline heavily, with taxes making up as much as 75 percent of the cost of a gallon of gasoline, said a spokesperson for AirInc.

Netherlands Amsterdam $6.48
Norway Oslo $6.27
Italy Milan $5.96
Denmark Copenhagen $5.93
Belgium Brussels $5.91
Sweden Stockholm $5.80
United Kingdom London $5.79
Germany Frankfurt $5.57
France Paris $5.54
Portugal Lisbon $5.35
Hungary Budapest $4.94
Luxembourg $4.82
Croatia Zagreb $4.81
Ireland Dublin $4.78
Switzerland Geneva $4.74
Spain Madrid $4.55
Japan Tokyo $4.24
Czech Republic Prague $4.19
Romania Bucharest $4.09
Andorra $4.08
Estonia Tallinn $3.62
Bulgaria Sofia $3.52
Brazil Brasilia $3.12
Cuba Havana $3.03
Taiwan Taipei $2.84
Lebanon Beirut $2.63
South Africa Johannesburg $2.62
Nicaragua Managua $2.61
Panama Panama City $2.19
Russia Moscow $2.10
Puerto Rico San Juan $1.74
Saudi Arabia Riyadh $0.91
Kuwait Kuwait City $0.78
Egypt Cairo $0.65
Nigeria Lagos $0.38
Venezuela Caracas $0.12

In a few Latin America and Middle-East nations, such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, oil is produced by a government-owned company and local gasoline prices are kept low as a benefit to the nation's citizens, he said. All prices updated March, 2005.

KronoRed
04-29-2006, 02:42 PM
In a few Latin America and Middle-East nations, such as Venezuela and Saudi Arabia, oil is produced by a government-owned company and local gasoline prices are kept low as a benefit to the nation's citizens, he said.
Nationalization :clap:

creek14
04-29-2006, 04:44 PM
I don't know why this hasn't been in the news. Kuwait has a couple refineries shut down for repair right now. I know one produces in excess of 200,000 barrels a day. They should come back on line in a month or so, IIRC. So that can't be helping current prices.

But the good news is, they are in the process of building another new refinery that will increase their daily output from 930,000 to 1,400,000 a day.

Of course if we weren't dependent on all this foreign oil...

OldRightHander
04-30-2006, 05:46 PM
I burn through about 10 gallons of gas a week, so that's $30 a week for me in gas. More than I spent before, but certainly within the realm of what's affordable for me. Now, if you up that to $50 or $60/week, now we're talking some serious cash.

My case is a little different, with what I do during the day. I went through $250 in the last two days. I'd love to spend $30 a week.

max venable
07-17-2006, 09:11 PM
Update...

Currently $2.999 for regular unleaded where I live (NE Ohio). Nice. :bang:

Nugget
07-17-2006, 09:29 PM
I don't know where CNN gets their gas from but I can tell you its not $2.63 in Sydney. Its about $4.50. And thats the low grade stuff too. Also in Europe can't get 92RON, they only provide 95RON which in Sydney is about another $0.25 per gallon.

Super_Barry11
07-17-2006, 10:41 PM
I just got a new car and now have to buy premium gas... :eek: Definitely not used to paying this much for gas!!

zombie-a-go-go
07-18-2006, 08:41 AM
Increase the gas tax (the US hasone of the smallest gasoline taxes in the world, I think), roll back incentives to oil companies, and seriously invest those funds in alternative energy sources. There's your answer. We have the solutions, we just have to figure out how to make them more cost-effective.

Will it ever happen?

Of course not.

zombie-a-go-go
07-18-2006, 08:41 AM
I just got a new car and now have to buy premium gas... :eek: Definitely not used to paying this much for gas!!

Shoulda bought a Prius. ;)

RBA
07-18-2006, 09:09 AM
I just got a new car and now have to buy premium gas... :eek: Definitely not used to paying this much for gas!!

Why Premium Gas? I've never put premium in any of my cars and none of them had fuel related problems.

KronoRed
07-18-2006, 03:36 PM
Premium gas to me is a big scam, sure it's a bit better, but 20 cents per gallon better? I doubt it.

M2
07-18-2006, 06:51 PM
Six years ago I bought a car that gets 40 MPG. If gas prices keep rising, I figure it will pay for itself in another year.

Rojo
07-18-2006, 07:28 PM
My monthly bus pass is still $45. Why is that everyone lives so far from work. It shouldn't be that way. You travel the country and come across these quaint little towns with nice squares and cute downtowns but everyone lives in the cookie-cutters subdivisions where you can't grab a pop without getting into your car. Why? For an extra 100 square feet? Fear of black people? Granite counter tops? I just don't get it.

GIK
07-18-2006, 08:18 PM
I live less than 2 miles from work, but have a car because I just love to drive - not to work - but to just drive. It'd be hard not to have a car for me.

Rojo
07-18-2006, 08:50 PM
I live less than 2 miles from work, but have a car because I just love to drive - not to work - but to just drive. It'd be hard not to have a car for me.

I can totally understand that. I'm thinking of getting a car again. However, I just don't understand some of the choices people make, ie, a backyard versus two extra hours a day on the highway. People piddle their life away pursuing some marketed desire. Guy wrote a book about it, had a whale in it.

Super_Barry11
07-18-2006, 11:21 PM
Why Premium Gas? I've never put premium in any of my cars and none of them had fuel related problems.

Well honestly, I know nothing about cars. All I know is that there's a sticker on my car that says in bold letters, "PREMIUM GASOLINE ONLY." Or something along those lines. :laugh: I asked my stepdad if I could use something less than premium, and he said no. So I guess I'm stuck with it. :confused:

Nugget
07-18-2006, 11:28 PM
May I ask what kind of car you have?

If its European its more than likely meant to run on 95RON. I believe that the US and Australia are one of the few western countries to sell 92RON as the standard. There are 3 types of unleaded petrol 92RON, 95RON and 98RON. Only the super high performance cars like WRX, EVO etc require the 98RON.

A car that is recommended to run on 95RON will run on 92RON but you will get a pinging sound at lower revs. All in all the 95RON is meant to burn a little cleaner and better protect the engine. Whether or not it is worth the extra is debatable.

The other problem is that fuel companies don't have the same labelling for all their petrol. Some companies call their 95RON premium but others only label their 98RON premium with the 95RON given some other name.

Unassisted
07-18-2006, 11:44 PM
FWIW, I heard on a local car advice radio show that mileage drops significantly if you use regular gas in a vehicle that requires premium. I don't think they said if the mileage drop is significant enough to offset the savings from the cheaper fuel.

Super_Barry11
07-18-2006, 11:56 PM
May I ask what kind of car you have?

It's a Lexus IS 300 SportCross. I love it, so I don't want to risk messing it up or anything by using the wrong type of gas.

GIK
07-18-2006, 11:59 PM
You can also risk excessive carbon buildup if you drop lower than 91 on a vehicle tuned to run on premium.

Nugget
07-19-2006, 12:58 AM
It's a Lexus IS 300 SportCross. I love it, so I don't want to risk messing it up or anything by using the wrong type of gas.

Don't have tht car in OZ but if its the same Lexus brand as here then I would say that it probably needs to run on 95RON. The other thing with new cars is that even though the engine will run on 92RON it is tuned to run on 95RON which means that besides the excessive carbon build up you get jerkier gear changes and a decrease in performance.

LawFive
07-24-2006, 09:50 PM
Not really much else to be said.

StillFunkyB
07-24-2006, 09:59 PM
Exactly.

The sad thing is there is not much anyone can do to fix it in the immediate future.

traderumor
07-24-2006, 10:02 PM
Meanwhile...
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060723/bs_afp/kuwaiteconomygrant_060723145812


Oil-rich Kuwait gives citizens 690 dollars each

Sun Jul 23, 11:00 AM ET

KUWAIT CITY (AFP) - The one million citizens of Kuwait, where government financial assets have topped 166 billion dollars, are to receive a grant of 200 dinars (690 dollars) each, the government has announced.
ADVERTISEMENT

"In accordance with directives by the emir, the cabinet decided to provide all Kuwaiti citizens with a grant of 200 dinars each," state minister for cabinet affairs Ismail al-Shatti said Sunday after the cabinet weekly meeting.

The two million foreign workers in the oil-rich emirate were not included.

The
OPEC member posted a surplus in each of the past seven fiscal years, totalling more than 50 billion dollars. Kuwait is also headed for record revenues this year.

The government offered a similar grant in October 2004 and raised salaries of citizens by 170 dollars monthly last year. MPs in the outspoken parliament have been pressing for a new hike.

The Gulf Arab state provides a cradle-to-grave welfare system to its citizens who receive most public services at heavily subsidized prices and pay no income tax.

Some 92 percent of Kuwait's 300,000-strong workforce are employed in government jobs, with high wages and minimal work pressure.

So glad we drove the Iraqis out so they could retain their cushy government jobs and other benefits from having more money than they know what to do with

Red in Chicago
07-24-2006, 10:09 PM
$3.20 and climbing in my hood...

Rob Dicken
07-24-2006, 10:36 PM
$3.20 and climbing in my hood...

It's ridiculous....and there's nothing we can do about it.

savafan
07-24-2006, 10:37 PM
This one is destined for Ochre's board...

Unassisted
07-24-2006, 11:10 PM
You could always move to Texas. The station in my neighborhood is selling gas for 30 cents less than that. ;)

smith288
07-24-2006, 11:24 PM
$3.20 and climbing in my hood...
Move to Europe if you want to see some high prices...

RedsMan3203
07-25-2006, 12:05 AM
2.85 in Columbus.

guttle11
07-25-2006, 12:20 AM
Gas went up $0.10 in my neighborhood overnight. I've seen much worse. People are looking at the number in front of the decimal point too much. It went up $0.10 cents. Relax.

cincy jacket
07-25-2006, 12:22 AM
Move to Europe if you want to see some high prices...

Yeah but in Europe the taxes from that gas goes to help fund universal health care and free education all the way through grad school.

cincy09
07-25-2006, 12:39 AM
mine went up $.30 to 3.20

savafan
07-25-2006, 12:49 AM
What's the current reason being given for the price increase, did someone in Korea sneeze?

Jpup
07-25-2006, 02:28 AM
What's the current reason being given for the price increase, did someone in Korea sneeze?

Israel and Hezbollah are at war, if you hadn't noticed.;)

gas was 2.99 here @ 2 pm today. At midnight, it was 2.85.

That is what doesn't make sense to me. I'm glad I only fill up every couple of weeks, but it does cost about 60 bucks or so. I just worry about everything else going up because of it.

KronoRed
07-25-2006, 02:45 AM
Yeah but in Europe the taxes from that gas goes to help fund universal health care and free education all the way through grad school.
Yeah but that's socialism and that's evil and stuff...or so they say :devil:

Nugget
07-25-2006, 02:50 AM
Yeah but in Europe the taxes from that gas goes to help fund universal health care and free education all the way through grad school.

Not quite. You get much of that in Sweden and France but you are also slugged with a higher cost of living, your never likely to own your own house in the burbs and the reason that gas prices are higher are they use a higher octane gas.

Strange thing with the pump price v the barrel price is that the barrel price has been going down but the pump price going up!

Tony Cloninger
07-25-2006, 08:17 AM
GP in CA....my area is in between LA and OC....it has been $3.38 to
$3.78 for about 6 months now....it has not been under $3.00 in over a year.

And not everyone who lives in LA is loaded......or even making $50,000 a year.

What amazes me is that people still buy the big gas guzzling vehicles.....they refuse to buy a Honda or Toyota. I deal with car loans....and out in the midwest and south.... it's almost like a crime to think about purchasing anything that is not a Ford/GM big vehicle. And out here...... the car is your status..... i see these women driving these things.... i think they feel safe beacuse they know nothing will happen to them if they hit something.
I have a friend who bought one......he already had a Mercedes.... but his ego has overrun common sense. Or else he is making up for some shortcomings.

I drive a 1993 Honda Accord....has 200,000 miles.....have had it for 10 years.... have spent $2000 in minor repairs throught the years.

Now...i do have a Cuda that i drive once a week....but i barely spend $30 a month for gas. It is just for a fun cruise every now and then. :thumbup:

Heath
07-25-2006, 09:24 AM
2.91 here - at least today anyway. But the other stations are at 3.08, so that should be forthcoming soon.

I drive an Impala and my wife a Windstar van. I have 5 in my group. The Windstar is a tank on wheels with the steel cage rollbars and side impact absorbers. I'll pay gladly for some extra gas in case some idiot runs a red light and plows into the van.

I've been actually impressed with the Impala - 25-30 in the city - 35 on the open road.

Rob Dicken
07-25-2006, 11:27 AM
Quick solution to all of U.S.'s problems with gasoline:

3/4 of the people complaining about the prices of gasoline, are either driving a huge SUV or Truck. People need to quit whining, when they are driving GAS GUZZLERS! These people are the exact reason why gas is rising so rapidly!

- Get a gas efficient vehicle.

I currently drive a '98 Dodge Neon that gets about 30+ miles to the gallon. I spend about $25 a week in gas, and I drive to work 20 miles a day and back.

Getting a small vehicle or a hybrid vehicle (typically ethanol/gasoline), in my mind, would lower gas prices very effectively.

I've thought about this for quite sometime, and this probably the absolute BEST way that the prices are going to lower.

But, there are also many people who just don't care about the gas prices (celebrities, sports stars, etc.)

GIK
07-25-2006, 11:35 AM
2.99 here, but it was 3.19 on the West side of the state as I was driving through yesterday. 2.81 in Cedar Rapids, IA, though. :)

KittyDuran
07-25-2006, 12:18 PM
Quick solution to all of U.S.'s problems with gasoline:

3/4 of the people complaining about the prices of gasoline, are either driving a huge SUV or Truck. People need to quit whining, when they are driving GAS GUZZLERS! These people are the exact reason why gas is rising so rapidly!

- Get a gas efficient vehicle.

I currently drive a '98 Dodge Neon that gets about 30+ miles to the gallon. I spend about $25 a week in gas, and I drive to work 20 miles a day and back.

Getting a small vehicle or a hybrid vehicle (typically ethanol/gasoline), in my mind, would lower gas prices very effectively.

I've thought about this for quite sometime, and this probably the absolute BEST way that the prices are going to lower.

But, there are also many people who just don't care about the gas prices (celebrities, sports stars, etc.)I have a 1998 Chevy Prizm with about 213K miles on it (no A/C tho') and drive 30 miles to work - I spend about the same on gas.

Chip R
07-25-2006, 01:26 PM
I currently drive a '98 Dodge Neon

So sorry about that. I feel your pain. :(

savafan
07-25-2006, 01:27 PM
So sorry about that. I feel your pain. :(

As do I...I miss my Neon, but I'm stupid...

zombie-a-go-go
07-25-2006, 01:36 PM
So sorry about that. I feel your pain. :(

Watch it, pal... mine's paid off, gets great mileage, and takes me where I need to go.

The "bigger faster better-than-yours more more more" culture in this country is killing us... and, at the same time, blinding us to the fact.

Chip R
07-25-2006, 01:56 PM
Watch it, pal... mine's paid off, gets great mileage, and takes me where I need to go.


Just make sure your head gasket gets regular checkups. :help:

zombie-a-go-go
07-25-2006, 01:57 PM
Just make sure your head gasket gets regular checkups. :help:

You're telling me... :lol:

Falls City Beer
07-25-2006, 01:58 PM
The "bigger faster better-than-yours more more more" culture in this country is killing us... and, at the same time, blinding us to the fact.


Never went in for the bigger, faster cars/SUVs. I'm comfortable with the size of my genitals.

dman
07-25-2006, 05:25 PM
I have a Dakota with the 4.7 V8, not the best on gas consumption, but by far not the worst. I pretty much needed this truck to be able to pull the boat and travel trailer.

Ltlabner
07-25-2006, 07:19 PM
I clock in around 35,000 to 40,000 miles per year of driving. I'm in sales and have to drive so the cost of gas is a bit irrelevant to me. I have no choice in the matter so I don't really get too bent out of shape over the price. My old car averaged around 20mpg so a .$75 price increase cost me about $100 per month in extra cost. And that's based on a lot of miles per month. That's why I have a hard time understanding why people flip out over the gas prices. It's extra cost to be sure, but some people act as if it's the end of the world. I had one friend cancil a vacation even after I showed them that it that gas would be an extra $40. They were spending all sorts of money on different activities but they couldn't squeeze an extra $40 out of the trip and bagged it. Totally silly IMO.

That being said, however, I did reciently purchase a more fuel effecient vehicle and the savings have been nice. It averages closer to 30mpg (Volvo wagon) and even though I use premium fuel my monthly fuel expendatures have gone down.

But with the whole "can you believe the cost of gas" issue I always have to chuckle when I see a soccer mom in a gigantic SUV, driving to dance class, with $5 starbucks in hand, $2 bottle water in the cup holder and burning through cell phone minutes discussing inane subjects and making plans to go out to dinner for the 4th time that week....griping about the price of gas.

Then you suggest cutting back on driving to drive down demand and they almost faint....I couldn't possibly do that.....

Rob Dicken
07-25-2006, 07:22 PM
So sorry about that. I feel your pain. :(

Why's that? It's a great car. Best car I've had. I've had some electrical problems with the dash and fuses, but I worked the kinks out. Works like a wonder.

ghettochild
07-26-2006, 12:11 AM
my friend and i filled up at 2.15 yesterday

Rob Dicken
07-26-2006, 01:03 AM
my friend and i filled up at 2.15 yesterday

Did you have some sort of discount card? That's really low!

StillFunkyB
07-26-2006, 07:17 AM
I never drive my car, it sits in the driveway while I am out in the road. Last time I filled it up was about 2 months ago. :)

Company pays for gas while I am in a rental.

The price still bugs me.

max venable
07-26-2006, 10:11 AM
Currently $3.09 here in NE Ohio.

gonelong
07-26-2006, 10:26 AM
You travel 1/2 way around the world to try and find oil. You set up heavy and expenseive equipment that has expensive operating costs. You extract the oil, ship it 1/2 way around the world and have it refined. You then ship it to everyones neighborhood where you have purchased land at a premium in order to off the product conviniently. The government adds a fistfull of taxes onto that. That costs you $3.00 gallon.

... sometime that seems like a bargain to me.

Milk is 3.00 a gallon
Beer is $9.00 a gallon
Red bull is $30.00 a gallon
Chanel No.5 perfume is $25,000 a gallon

GL

Rojo
07-26-2006, 02:24 PM
You travel 1/2 way around the world to try and find oil. You set up heavy and expenseive equipment that has expensive operating costs. You extract the oil, ship it 1/2 way around the world and have it refined. You then ship it to everyones neighborhood where you have purchased land at a premium in order to off the product conviniently. The government adds a fistfull of taxes onto that. That costs you $3.00 gallon.

... sometime that seems like a bargain to me.

No wonder Exxon is losing money, hand-over-fist.

Chip R
07-26-2006, 04:04 PM
Beer is $9.00 a gallon


Don't even suggest that. :thumbdown

gonelong
07-26-2006, 04:40 PM
No wonder Exxon is losing money, hand-over-fist.

Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

GL

Ltlabner
07-26-2006, 05:42 PM
No wonder Exxon is losing money, hand-over-fist.

You say that as if somehow making money is a bad thing. Unless I am misunderstanding your comment.

Razor Shines
07-27-2006, 04:19 AM
I clock in around 35,000 to 40,000 miles per year of driving. I'm in sales and have to drive so the cost of gas is a bit irrelevant to me. I have no choice in the matter so I don't really get too bent out of shape over the price. My old car averaged around 20mpg so a .$75 price increase cost me about $100 per month in extra cost. And that's based on a lot of miles per month. That's why I have a hard time understanding why people flip out over the gas prices. It's extra cost to be sure, but some people act as if it's the end of the world. I had one friend cancil a vacation even after I showed them that it that gas would be an extra $40. They were spending all sorts of money on different activities but they couldn't squeeze an extra $40 out of the trip and bagged it. Totally silly IMO.

That being said, however, I did reciently purchase a more fuel effecient vehicle and the savings have been nice. It averages closer to 30mpg (Volvo wagon) and even though I use premium fuel my monthly fuel expendatures have gone down.

But with the whole "can you believe the cost of gas" issue I always have to chuckle when I see a soccer mom in a gigantic SUV, driving to dance class, with $5 starbucks in hand, $2 bottle water in the cup holder and burning through cell phone minutes discussing inane subjects and making plans to go out to dinner for the 4th time that week....griping about the price of gas.

Then you suggest cutting back on driving to drive down demand and they almost faint....I couldn't possibly do that.....
I feel pretty much the same way. I am a district supervisor, so I also am always driving. I have a car and an SUV and the cost is not a great deal different, a lot of days I drive the SUV just because I like it better and that's worth the extra gas money to me.

The other day I actually heard some guy yelling at a gas station employee because of the price of their gas, and then he walked out with a look on his face as if he'd just done something worthy of praise. Apparently an 18 year old girl in southern Indiana is the reason for the price increase around the world, I'm sure she'll cut it out now after that guy gave her a stern talking to.

zombie-a-go-go
07-27-2006, 09:27 AM
Nobody is forcing anyone to buy it.

GL

Really? Do tell.

How do you think the food you purchase gets to the grocery store? Horses? Or maybe it's magic.

dabvu2498
07-27-2006, 10:14 AM
(AP) Exxon Mobil Corp. said Thursday it earned $10.36 billion in the second quarter, the second largest quarterly profit ever recorded by a publicly traded U.S. company.

The earnings figure was 36 percent above the profit it reported a year ago. High oil prices helped boost its revenue by 12 percent to a level just short of a quarterly record.

Exxon Mobil's report comes a day after another large U.S. oil company, ConocoPhillips, said it earned more than $5 billion in the quarter and at a time when many drivers in the U.S. are paying $3 for a gallon of gas — increasing the likelihood of further political backlash in Washington.

Exxon Mobil, the world's largest oil company by market capitalization, said earnings amounted to $1.72 per share in the April-June quarter compared with a profit of $7.64 billion, or $1.20 per share, a year ago.

The results topped Wall Street expectations but came in behind Exxon Mobil's record profit of $10.71 billion set in the fourth quarter of 2005.

Analysts polled by Thomson Financial expected the company to earn $1.64 per share.

Revenue rose to $99.03 billion from $88.57 billion in the prior-year quarter. That was short of Exxon Mobil's record third-quarter revenue of $100.72 billion — which also stands as record revenue generated by any U.S. public company ever in a single quarter.

Exxon Mobil said it spent $4.9 billion on capital and exploration projects during the quarter, up 8 percent from a year ago, while distributing $7.9 billion to shareholders in the form of dividends and share repurchases. Congress has been urging the big oil companies to put more of their profits toward boosting the supply of energy for consumers.

gonelong
07-27-2006, 12:53 PM
Really? Do tell.

How do you think the food you purchase gets to the grocery store? Horses? Or maybe it's magic.

Really. Just how does Exxon force Kroger to purchase fuel?

Do tell.

GL

zombie-a-go-go
07-27-2006, 01:13 PM
Really. Just how does Exxon force Kroger to purchase fuel?

Do tell.

GL

Maybe because without product, the company goes out of business. Fact is that this country's infrastructure is built upon cheap oil; without it, the economy is going to tank. You've got three choices - rebuild the infrastructure, develop alternative energies, or take the oil from somewhere else.

Or I guess we could all just wait for the Rapture. :dunno:

reds1869
07-27-2006, 02:28 PM
Pick a year and enter what you remember the gas price as. We Americans have gotten used to gasoline prices staying below inflation; our luck has run out. I get sick of hearing about .50 gas when you can clearly see what that .50 would be worth today. Food for thought:

http://www.cjr.org/tools/inflation/

Ltlabner
07-27-2006, 02:39 PM
You've got three choices - rebuild the infrastructure, develop alternative energies, or take the oil from somewhere else.


Yet certian special interests have put the kybosh on any new infrastruture or drilling for oil elsewhere. No new refineries have been built in decades and the mere mention of drilling for more oil sends some into apoloyptic fits. Worldwide demand has exploded while the supply remains relativley constant. Tack on $.40 or more per gallon for taxes. Thrown in the futures markets freaking out every time some nut in Iran farts and you end up with some really high prices at the pump.

Of course, this is the fault of the evil, money hungry oil companies and their billion dollar profits (and teeny profit margins)

Rojo
07-27-2006, 06:59 PM
Of course, this is the fault of the evil, money hungry oil companies and their billion dollar profits (and teeny profit margins)

And they're self-appointed flaks.

Ltlabner
07-27-2006, 07:12 PM
And they're self-appointed flaks.

So I guess that means you dissagre with the facts laid before you?

Rojo
07-27-2006, 07:37 PM
http://lastperson.suncircle.org/index.php?topic=557.0

Ltlabner
07-27-2006, 07:49 PM
http://lastperson.suncircle.org/index.php?topic=557.0

And these plentifull alternative energy sources are what again excatly?

Hybrid cars who's high purchase price makes any mpg savings negliable? And while getting much better are no where near practical enough for those of us who put lots of miles on our cars (I'm in sales).

Solar? Been fiddling with that since the 1970's.

Hydrogen? Have you ever considered the amount of energy required to produce hydrogen? And where that energy might come from?

Ethenol? The shear volume of corn needed to make a small amount of fuel makes this inpractical with current technology.

So again I ask, where are all of these energy sources?

And I again I ask what is the evil in these companies making a return on their investment? They make billions yes, but they also spend billions. And create a whole heck of a lot of jobs.

Rojo
07-27-2006, 08:02 PM
I wasn't re-directing you for the sake of my argument, I was doing it because we're not supposed to have political discussions here.

Ltlabner
07-27-2006, 08:04 PM
I wasn't re-directing you for the sake of my argument, I was doing it because we're not supposed to have political discussions here.

Ok...thats cool. I wouldn't consider a discussion of basic market econmics "political" but that's fine.

Rojo
07-27-2006, 08:21 PM
Ok...thats cool. I wouldn't consider a discussion of basic market econmics "political" but that's fine.

Its all political, "markets" don't exist in a vacuum.

Redsfaithful
07-28-2006, 05:26 AM
Milk is 3.00 a gallon


If you're buying milk for $3 a gallon then you ought to shop around.

And it's hysterical to see people defending the oil companies. Priceless.

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 07:26 AM
And it's hysterical to see people defending the oil companies. Priceless.

There's nothing to "defend". They provide a product. We purchase said product and recieve the ultility of being able to travel from pt. A to pt. B more effeciently than if we rode horses, walked or took the bus (unless you live in a very large city). They recieve payment for their product with the goal of making a profit. We recieve their product and the ultility of it.

I guess I don't see a problem with this, unless of course "profit" is a bad thing.

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 07:40 AM
My monthly bus pass is still $45. Why is that everyone lives so far from work. It shouldn't be that way. You travel the country and come across these quaint little towns with nice squares and cute downtowns but everyone lives in the cookie-cutters subdivisions where you can't grab a pop without getting into your car. Why? For an extra 100 square feet? Fear of black people? Granite counter tops? I just don't get it.

I choose to live in a suburb because I enjoy building things in my workshop, mowing grass and enjoying a 1/2 acre of outdoors that I own. I have much more than 100 extra square feet that I would have in an apartment/condo typically found in a downtown area. I don't want to live stacked on top of other people, no matter what their race. I don't prefer to live jammed into a building where I hear other people yelling, talking and slamming their doors all night. I like that I can drive to the country to enjoy what it has to offer, drive down the street to all the amenities or drive downtown to catch a Reds game. My home is radically different than every other one on the street (but I do recognize the "cookie cutter neighborhoods and don't care for them myself). I like granite countertops but currently can only afford the regular ones I have.

I don't want to live in a "quaint little town" because that means I have to drive at least 30 minutes to get to anything like a store, shop, etc. You have most of the same "things" as a suburb just far less choices and I don't care for that. Whether you drive to commute to work, or have to drive to get to most services, what's the difference?

You prefer downtown or a "quaint little town". I don't. Why is one "wrong" and one "right"? They are just different choices.


Why is that everyone lives so far from work. It shouldn't be that way.

I don't recall you getting a vote in the matter.

reds1869
07-28-2006, 07:56 AM
If you're buying milk for $3 a gallon then you ought to shop around.

And it's hysterical to see people defending the oil companies. Priceless.

There are quite a few parts of the country where milk is that expensive. My sister in Boston pays well over $3 for a gallon of milk. Not everywhere is Ohio where the dairy is right down the road and local government is friendly to farmers.

gonelong
07-28-2006, 09:16 AM
If you're buying milk for $3 a gallon then you ought to shop around.

And it's hysterical to see people defending the oil companies. Priceless.

The oil companies offer a product, same as anyone else. YOU determine how much of that product you are willing to purchase. No one else.

Oil companies don't need anyone to defend them, you'll continue to purchase their product even as you grumble about it. Priceless.

GL

Rojo
07-28-2006, 01:55 PM
You prefer downtown or a "quaint little town". I don't. Why is one "wrong" and one "right"? They are just different choices.

Fair enough. Its just that your choice warms the planet and spikes gas prices.

reds1869
07-28-2006, 02:14 PM
Fair enough. Its just that your choice warms the planet and spikes gas prices.

Not everyone living in the subrubs works in the city nor vice versa. On top of that not everyone has a choice. When I lived in Columbus I lived and worked in the city. I didn't have that choice when I moved to Cincinnati. I live in the suburbs because that's where my wife is from and because I also work in the suburbs.

I miss living in the city. I miss the convenience of being able to be downtown in ten minutes, of having access to great events and resources. But I don't miss having to have an alarm at my house or constantly catching people stealing my things. I don't miss the fact that I wasted $200K on a house that may never sell because of the school district it's in. Perhaps this poster has a similar situation. Regardless, you need to get off your moral high horse and realize that everyone makes choices for a reason. I too wish we all used public transit and drove alternative vehicles. But it gets old hearing that those who do are better than those of us that do not have that choice.

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 02:21 PM
Fair enough. Its just that your choice warms the planet and spikes gas prices.

Since I have a home office, I fail to see how my choice of living in the suburbs has anything to do with spiking gas prices. But it is interesting that you assume that because I live in the burbs that I am just driving hither and yon and destroying the environment with wild abandon, unlike the ultra responsible people downtown.

I suspect there are people who live close to downtown that actually work in the suburbs. I suspect there are people who live in the suburbs that work in the suburbs. I suspect there are people in the country that work in either the subs or the city. Are you implying that the only responsible thing for people to do is move downtown, work downtown and never leave the confines of the city limits?

Gas prices are based purely on supply & demand. Worldwide demand is up, worldwide supply is relatively constant. Prices are up. It's really as simple as that.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 02:22 PM
Filled up for $2.83 just across the SC line, yesterday. Usually can save .05 to .07 cents by driving a couple of miles here in the south Charlotte area.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 02:24 PM
If you're buying milk for $3 a gallon then you ought to shop around.

And it's hysterical to see people defending the oil companies. Priceless.

Wish someone would tell me where I can buy milk for less than $3.00 a gallon here in Charlotte. My 9 year old son can put the stuff away.

RANDY IN INDY
07-28-2006, 02:24 PM
The oil companies offer a product, same as anyone else. YOU determine how much of that product you are willing to purchase. No one else.

Oil companies don't need anyone to defend them, you'll continue to purchase their product even as you grumble about it. Priceless.

GL

That's a fact.

KronoRed
07-28-2006, 03:33 PM
Gas prices are based purely on supply & demand. Worldwide demand is up, worldwide supply is relatively constant. Prices are up. It's really as simple as that.
And that should be changed, without oil the world will come to a halt, not a depression, think world wide riots.

Oil should be nationalized, yeah yeah socialism is evil and all that. ;)

zombie-a-go-go
07-28-2006, 03:36 PM
And that should be changed, without oil the world will come to a halt, not a depression, think world wide riots.

Oil should be nationalized, yeah yeah socialism is evil and all that. ;)

Thank you, Komrade. ;)

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 03:41 PM
And that should be changed, without oil the world will come to a halt, not a depression, think world wide riots.

I guess I'm not following you. Change the laws of supply and demand? How can you do that?

Change worldwide demand? I think we in the USA should focus a lot more on conservation, alternative energy supplies etc. You may have a hard time talking the Chinese and Indians into that concept.

As oil supplies dwindle, or companies figure out how to make money providing alternative fuel sources to the market, other enegery sources will be plentifull. So there will not be a "running out of oil worldwide riot", IMO.

Anyway, I didn't understand your post.

Rojo
07-28-2006, 04:21 PM
Gas prices are based purely on supply & demand. Worldwide demand is up, worldwide supply is relatively constant. Prices are up. It's really as simple as that.

And that demand is driven by the choices we make ------ collectively. I'm not trying to ride a high horse with my city living. I live in the city because I like it. But I'm highlighting the difference to demonstrate the choices we make, political choices. When the government builds highways instead of trains, give tax breaks to homeowners but not renters, and subsidizes the automobile-and-oil culture that's politics, not the "market".

Ltlabner
07-28-2006, 04:41 PM
And that demand is driven by the choices we make ------ collectively. I'm not trying to ride a high horse with my city living. I live in the city because I like it. But I'm highlighting the difference to demonstrate the choices we make, political choices. When the government builds highways instead of trains, give tax breaks to homeowners but not renters, and subsidizes the automobile-and-oil culture that's politics, not the "market".

Ok, this I can understand and you make a good point.

You are right, we certinally make choices that add to that demand. I don't begrudge a single person for driving an SUV, nor do I think they are evil. But owning a larger, less effecient vehicle means you are going to spend more on gas. As such, you shouldn't be shocked when it costs you more to operate the vechicle and you really shouldn't gripe about it. Obviously anybody requiring a large vehicle due to work or enviornmental factors (live in remote area, haul farm equipment, etc) would be excluded from this.

I'd love to see more public transport in the US, but part of me wonders how practical that is due to the size of the country. I couldn't really perform my job (industrial sales) very well traveling by bus. The other part of me wonders if people would resist riding the train to the mall simply becase they wouldn't have the control and would have to plan around the train schedule. This doesn't mean we shouldn't put more effort into pushing these systems, I'm just throwing this out for dicussion.

The way to drive down demand is for people to drive less. They don't drive autos because the freeways exist, it's the other way round. Freeways were built because people were driving more. But getting people to drive less, and conserve energy in general is an all encompsing task that has to start with the individual.

I'm not sure I follow how tax breaks for homeowners impacts gas prices. Are you talking about the property tax deduction? If you are, that is to spur ownership of property which I don't see as a bad thing or how it impacts the price at the pump. Life would not suddenly be perfect if we all lived in cities. In fact, this would open up a whole new set of problems for society as a whole.

westofyou
07-28-2006, 04:51 PM
I live in the city because I like it.

And you live in a city that takes care of their folks using their feet, as does PDX, so many cities in the midwest sold off their downtowns years ago for cheap land on the outskirts, forgetting about infrastructure and the effect of highways on the city... imagine if the Embarcadero was still up, what an ugly freaking mess that was... the one good thing to come out of the quake was the demise of that eysore.

Rojo
07-28-2006, 05:16 PM
They don't drive autos because the freeways exist, it's the other way round. Freeways were built because people were driving more. That's the market working.

I disagree. Its likely that automobile purchases and usage was up after the War, so was everything. But the decision to build the Interstate Highway system was largely political and economic. We were in the middle of the Cold War. To demonstrate the superiority of the democratic capitalism we needed to make sure that the privations of the Great Depression were not repeated. The Interstate Highway system not only created jobs during its construction but paved the way (literally) to the suburbs, where single family homes with tv's and washers and dryers would replace tenements, movie houses and laundromats. Building all these home nd the appliances that filled them employed even more. And of course the automobile industry flourished. Even today something like 1 in 10 people has received some sort of check from General Motors or one of its subsidiaries.

I understand how the market works, but, again it doesn't take place in a vacuum. Governments make decisions all the time and actors respond. We're seeing this in the developing world right now. Take the Three Gorges Dam in China for instancehttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Three_Gorges_Dam. Over a million peasants will lose their land so that electricity can be generated for factories. These peasants will have no choice but to work in these factories. And I'm sure somebody, at some point, will say something like "hey they don't have to work their".

Redsfaithful
07-29-2006, 02:14 AM
Oil companies don't need anyone to defend them, you'll continue to purchase their product even as you grumble about it. Priceless.

GL

Nah. I work at home and my wife walks to work. We have a car, but it's barely driven. I live in the city, and seriously doubt that I'll ever live in a suburb.

Redsfaithful
07-29-2006, 02:18 AM
And I'll add that I'd love to move to a city with better public transportation, and plan on doing so at some point. Columbus is a tough city to get around without driving.

Ltlabner
07-29-2006, 12:34 PM
The Interstate Highway system not only created jobs during its construction but paved the way (literally) to the suburbs, where single family homes with tv's and washers and dryers would replace tenements, movie houses and laundromats

Ok, I see what you are saying. Because the gov chose to build highways it made it easier for people to travel, more cars are purchased and whamo, more gas/oil is use. I see where you are comming from.

Let me ask you this in return. Suppose the gov didn't build the highway system, do you think people would have been agreeable to continuing to ride trains, busses, bikes, horses, etc? That's an honest question, I don't know the answer. My gut reaction is that people want more options as affluance grows so unless you limit affluance people's natural will to improve, have more, etc will always come into play. Or, perhaps other transportation technologies would have been developed that are as effecient as autos but use engergy differently. Perhaps a better energy source would have been persued at that time.


Over a million peasants will lose their land so that electricity can be generated for factories. These peasants will have no choice but to work in these factories. And I'm sure somebody, at some point, will say something like "hey they don't have to work their".

Ok, I understand about the decisions of gov effecting the marketplace. But are you saying that it's preferable that China not build it's energy infrastructure and that these "millions of pesants" would not have the option of persuing a better life than living a subsistance life on a farm? (Of course, if they desire farming, then that's great). What if they want more from life? Why should they be prohibited from having that option? Especially by people who have already had that option opened to them?

OldRightHander
07-29-2006, 01:34 PM
I filled up twice yesterday, and that's with a 32 gallon tank. I paid 2.85 near my house in Forest Park and 2.81 in Scottsburg, Indiana. There are a lot of reasons for the prices and it does seem that any discussion of those reasons could drift into the political arena, at least if you look at some of the environmental regulations and the effect they have. No matter what the reason for the higher prices, we can't deny the effect this could have on the economy as a whole, mainly because of the importance gasoline plays in this country.

For various reasons, I made an abrupt career change a few months ago and started driving for an expediting company, leased on as an owner/operator. I have a one ton Ford cargo van with a V8 in it that doesn't exactly sip gas. I get paid the same for the freight I haul whether gas prices are high or low, so when it jumps up, it eats into my profits. The company I am leased to recently started charging a fuel surcharge on all freight and passing that charge on to the drivers. What are those companies going to do when they are all of a sudden paying more to ship freight? Does anyone think they're going to eat the extra cost? It's going to be passed on to the consumer. In the end, higher prices at the pump will drive up the cost of just about every product that has to be shipped from one location to another.

Now were does that leave people like me who have to fuel our vehicles and don't have much choice in the type of vehicle to drive. It's not like I can put 2000 lbs. of freight in the trunk of a Prius. Many of us don't have much of a choice in the whole matter and we're stuck paying whatever the prices are. I don't have the option of waiting a day or two to see if the prices will come down before I fill my tank. I have to fill the tank every day.

So I have been doing some shopping around and it turns out that the Freightliner Sprinter has a larger cargo capacity than my Ford and comes with a turbo diesel that is supposed to get around 25 mpg. I think the monthly fuel savings alone would make up for the payment if I choose to purchase one, and if gas stays up where it it, I will be making a trip to the Freightliner dealer soon.

So what's the solution? I don't really have much of an idea, but decreasing this country's dependence on foreign oil would be a good start. If that means doing more domestic drilling and building some more refineries, then we should do it, along with more research in alternative fuels. Whatever the solution is, something needs to be done. So much of our economy revolves around oil that we either need to come up with a less expensive way to fuel our vehicles or we need to make the fuel we have less expensive. Sure, some of it has to do with lifestyle choices, driving big cars and the like, but professional drivers just don't have the same choices that others do, so I don't know how much of an effect it would have on the overall picture if everyone else bought a Prius.

LoganBuck
07-29-2006, 01:59 PM
Remember harvest is coming. The cost of diesel fuel is just as high. The corn and soybeans are going to come out of the fields with the increased cost of fuel being passed up the supply chain. The cost of food will increase as well.

westofyou
07-29-2006, 02:41 PM
Remember harvest is coming. The cost of diesel fuel is just as high. The corn and soybeans are going to come out of the fields with the increased cost of fuel being passed up the supply chain. The cost of food will increase as well.
And thus Bio Diesel too, nasty little circle eh?

Falls City Beer
07-29-2006, 03:17 PM
In addition to greed, the rather unintelligent, incurious, ludditic quality of the oil industry hurts pocketbooks more, IMO. Same with the auto industry--and the American auto industry in particular. Just intellectually and almost physically sluggish.

Rojo
07-29-2006, 08:24 PM
Let me ask you this in return. Suppose the gov didn't build the highway system, do you think people would have been agreeable to continuing to ride trains, busses, bikes, horses, etc? That's an honest question, I don't know the answer. My gut reaction is that people want more options as affluance grows so unless you limit affluance people's natural will to improve, have more, etc will always come into play.

Ok, I understand about the decisions of gov effecting the marketplace. But are you saying that it's preferable that China not build it's energy infrastructure and that these "millions of pesants" would not have the option of persuing a better life than living a subsistance life on a farm? (Of course, if they desire farming, then that's great). What if they want more from life? Why should they be prohibited from having that option? Especially by people who have already had that option opened to them?

See I have a problem with these "options". The peasant's aren't getting another "option" put on their plate, they have no choice. Likewise a lot of people don't have (really) good commuting "options".

Sean_CaseyRules
07-30-2006, 01:14 AM
I got gas for $2.86 tonight! I was really happy

WebScorpion
08-03-2006, 12:14 PM
I got gas for $2.86 tonight! I was really happy
Was it 10% Ethanol? I ran into a few stations on Rt 50 near the VA-WV border that were about $.20 per gallon cheaper than any of the surrounding stations and it turned out the gas was 10% Ethanol. It worked fine in the car though. :thumbup:

TeamCasey
08-03-2006, 01:34 PM
I just heard they shot up again today.

westofyou
08-03-2006, 01:54 PM
$2.83 here in PDX... shot up 10 cents in 2 days.

Reds4Life
08-03-2006, 02:03 PM
I just heard they shot up again today.

Yup.

I went to get lunch, $2.81 for regular. On the way back from lunch, $3.15 for regular. :rolleyes:

You are lucky WOY, ours went up 34 cents just today.

Reds4Life
08-04-2006, 10:18 PM
Speedway was the first to raise prices around here to $3.15 a gallon for regular, and many followed. Just saw on Fox 19 that the Kentucky AG is now investigating them for price gouging based on the most recent hike when wholesale prices fell on that day.

KalDanielsfan
08-04-2006, 10:29 PM
Los Angeles County Gas: $3.49 for regular

shoot me now.

dman
08-05-2006, 12:19 AM
Rising gas prices due to supply/demand and adjusted for inflation wouldn't be so bad if people's incomes were being adjusted for it. While the cost of everything (oil in particular) keeps rising, people just aren't being paid enough to keep up with it. I don't know where all these analysts come off saying the economy is doing so good :confused:. I hope that sometime soon, whatever is going to be the economical breaking point arrives so that everyday people can start back the path of financial recovery.

max venable
08-18-2006, 03:04 PM
down to $2.59 here in NE Ohio. How sad is it that I'm glad it's "only" $2.59 today?

dabvu2498
08-18-2006, 03:06 PM
down to $2.59 here in NE Ohio. How sad is it that I'm glad it's "only" $2.59 today?
$2.61 last night here in Butler County... I took all our vehicles and gas cans to get them filled.

max venable
08-18-2006, 03:09 PM
$2.61 last night here in Butler County... I took all our vehicles and gas cans to get them filled.
My wife was in Butler County yesterday (that's where the in-laws live). She said she filled up for $2.58.

dabvu2498
08-18-2006, 03:33 PM
My wife was in Butler County yesterday (that's where the in-laws live). She said she filled up for $2.58.
Likely at the Monroe exit (#29) off I-75. Cheapest gas in this area is typically found there.

I wasn't out that way yesterday, dang it.

dman
08-18-2006, 09:59 PM
down to $2.59 here in NE Ohio. How sad is it that I'm glad it's "only" $2.59 today?
Shhhhhhh!!! You guys may have just jinxed us

Razor Shines
08-18-2006, 11:11 PM
Rising gas prices due to supply/demand and adjusted for inflation wouldn't be so bad if people's incomes were being adjusted for it. While the cost of everything (oil in particular) keeps rising, people just aren't being paid enough to keep up with it. I don't know where all these analysts come off saying the economy is doing so good :confused:. I hope that sometime soon, whatever is going to be the economical breaking point arrives so that everyday people can start back the path of financial recovery.
It seems to be good to me, my wife and I's income has steadily increased every year for the three year's we've been married. The company I work for is hiring more than ever. My Dad did ok when I was groing up, but now he's making really good money, nice to see him get to buy stuff just for him after he did every thing for my brothers and me when we were growing up. It seems to me most people I know are doing well. In my albeit short experience I've found that if you work hard and you're honest things will work out, not that it always does for everyone but I'm just saying that's the way it's been for me in jobs that I've had.

RedsMan3203
08-19-2006, 04:16 PM
2.54 here in Columbus. W00t W00t.

Hollcat
08-22-2006, 01:06 AM
About 2.77 in southern KY, down from 2.86 last week.
In june I took a trip to Wisconsin. Stopped to get gas somewhere west of Indianapolis on I-74 and the BP station just off the ramp was $2.99. I decided to check down the road a little and about 500 yards away there was a station selling gas for $2.71

BRM
08-22-2006, 10:40 AM
About 2.77 in southern KY, down from 2.86 last week.


I talked to my parents over the weekend and they said they filled up in Brandenburg, KY for $2.72 this past Saturday. It's still around $2.95 out here, $3.19 for diesel.

OldRightHander
08-22-2006, 07:02 PM
I paid 2.53 in Forest Park and 2.40 in Dayton. That's a heck of a difference for just 45 miles apart.

Caveat Emperor
08-22-2006, 07:05 PM
...And to think, my father looks at me like a loon when I tell him that I absolutely refuse to buy another 4WD or AWD vehicle.

OldRightHander
08-22-2006, 07:35 PM
Likely at the Monroe exit (#29) off I-75. Cheapest gas in this area is typically found there.

I wasn't out that way yesterday, dang it.

If you start in Cincinnati and go up I-75, the gas gets cheaper the farther north you go. That holds true at least as far as Dayton. It starts going up again when you get past I-70.

dabvu2498
08-23-2006, 10:24 AM
If you start in Cincinnati and go up I-75, the gas gets cheaper the farther north you go. That holds true at least as far as Dayton. It starts going up again when you get past I-70.
It's cheaper in Monroe than in Middletown, Franklin or Springboro.

Rojo
08-23-2006, 03:37 PM
...And to think, my father looks at me like a loon when I tell him that I absolutely refuse to buy another 4WD or AWD vehicle.

Why would anyone buy an SUV now with $3.00 gas? This just flummoxes me. If you can't figure out what to do with your money, give it to me.

GIK
08-23-2006, 03:40 PM
My Mustang gets 12mpg. ;)

BRM
08-23-2006, 03:52 PM
Why would anyone buy an SUV now with $3.00 gas? This just flummoxes me. If you can't figure out what to do with your money, give it to me.

Because they want one and can afford to put the gas in it? I wouldn't own one either personally but I don't care if others want them.

goreds2
08-23-2006, 04:07 PM
From the Cincy Enquirer (8/23/06)

Gas prices dropping fast

Finally, some relief as we fall well below U.S. average
BY RYAN CLARK AND JON NEWBERRY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITERS
Local gasoline prices accelerated their retreat this week from recent peaks of more than $3 a gallon, as stations were spotted selling regular unleaded for as little as $2.64 Tuesday on both sides of the Ohio River.

That's 28 cents, or 10 percent, less than the $2.92 national average price for regular as of Monday, U.S. Energy Information Administration data show.

But while average prices in Northern Kentucky have been falling in step with those in Southwest Ohio, they still are about 15 cents higher on average south of the Ohio River, according to data compiled daily by Rockville, Md.-based Oil Price Information Service.


Mary Welge, a senior editor at the service, said problems with oil pipelines had increased Midwest prices earlier this summer. But supplies now are strong, leading to lower prices in the region.

Otherwise, falling prices in general are "signaling the end of the summer driving season," she said.

Fuel taxes in Northern Kentucky are 9 cents lower than in Ohio, but summer gas prices typically are higher in Northern Kentucky and in other areas where cleaner-burning reformulated gas is sold, mainly because the ethanol added to it costs a lot more than gasoline.

Now relief is coming on that front, too.

The Oil Price Information Service reported earlier this month that ethanol prices had fallen to less than $3 a gallon - from almost twice that much in some markets early this summer - and are expected to fall further this winter as new ethanol plants come on line.

That could save Northern Kentucky residents such as Matt Lee of Crescent Springs the trouble of driving to Cincinnati for cheaper gas.

"I work in Covington, so sometimes I'll go across the river to fill up," he said.

"I've noticed it could be 20 cents cheaper in some places," Lee, 23, said Tuesday as he filled up at a Sunoco in Fort Mitchell where the price for regular was $2.76. He said prices go lower the farther north he drives.

In this week's survey by the Energy Information Administration, Ohio's average price of $2.71 was the lowest of the nine states reported upon.

The Ohio average had also dropped the most - 15 cents - since last week. The next-lowest was Texas, where the average price fell by 7 cents to $2.80.

Nationally, average prices fell by 7 cents in the past week, the agency said.

Tuesday, along the Ohio River in Bellevue, which is about as far north as Kentucky gets, gas was selling for as low as $2.64 at United Dairy Farmers.

Lawyer John Foote was filling up his VW Passat for $2.89 a gallon at Speedway in Covington.

"I'd consider going across the bridge to buy gas, if I was in the area," said the 53-year-old Foote, who lives near Devou Park.

Foote, however, has already made a more decisive move to lower his gas expense.

Two weeks ago, he ordered a Toyota Prius, which advertises a mileage rating of 60 miles a gallon, and he plans to sell the VW, which gets about half that.

"We thought it was the best way to go," he said.

westofyou
08-23-2006, 04:08 PM
Finally, some relief as we fall well below U.S. average

Well golly gee good for you... ain't life a party?

Ltlabner
08-23-2006, 04:12 PM
Why would anyone buy an SUV now with $3.00 gas? This just flummoxes me. If you can't figure out what to do with your money, give it to me.

Because you do nothing whatsoever that would be considered a waste of money?

Or more to the point, you do nothing whatsoever that OTHERS would consider a waste of money?

I understand where you are comming from, especially when you see a soccer mom type driving a huge SUV but your post came across kind of arrogent to me. Maybe I am missinterpreting what you are trying to commuinicate. If so, I applogize in advance.

I know plenty of people who manage their money very, very well and have SUV's for good reasons. Just because someone drives a form of transportation you personally wouldn't choose doesn't mean they are stupid or don't know how to manage money.

Razor Shines
08-23-2006, 04:42 PM
Why would anyone buy an SUV now with $3.00 gas? This just flummoxes me. If you can't figure out what to do with your money, give it to me.
Maybe it's just being stupid but I feel better having my wife drive an SUV. I just feel she's safer driving something big, I'll pay extra at the pump for that. My mom was in a very bad accident years ago and she was driving a little Toyota, and that car was completely crushed, she's lucky she's alive but she hasn't been the same since. She's had many surgeries on her back and has trouble walking. The car that hit her was the same size as hers. A bigger car may not have helped, but it might have and with my wife I'd rather her have the bigger car just in case.

Rojo
08-23-2006, 05:55 PM
Because they want one and can afford to put the gas in it? I wouldn't own one either personally but I don't care if others want them.

I do. They endanger my life and raise my cost of living.

OldRightHander
08-24-2006, 01:53 AM
I was hit by a drunk driver back in the early 90s and darn near killed. I was driving a small car. I haven't driven a small car since and never will again. Higher fuel economy doesn't do you a bit of good if you're six feet under.

BRM
08-24-2006, 09:41 AM
I do. They endanger my life and raise my cost of living.

Ah, you want others to be less safe so that you feel safer. Sorry, I don't see that happening. Drive a bigger car if you want to feel safer. It's a choice everyone has to make. You choose fuel economy. Some will choose safety. So be it.

Caveat Emperor
08-24-2006, 10:27 AM
I do. They endanger my life and raise my cost of living.

I'm 6'10" tall -- that pretty much limits me to driving SUV-type cars if I want to ride with any sort of comfort.

Sorry to endanger your life, but it's only very recently that auto manufacturers have started to offer "mini-SUV"/wagon cars that offer me enough room to drive without extensive interior modifications that I can't afford.

zombie-a-go-go
08-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Ah, you want others to be less safe so that you feel safer. Sorry, I don't see that happening. Drive a bigger car if you want to feel safer. It's a choice everyone has to make. You choose fuel economy. Some will choose safety. So be it.

If you chose safety, you chose... poorly.


In a crash, the high bumper, stiff frame and steel-panel construction of SUVs can override crash protections of other vehicles, making them dangerous for other motorists in two-vehicle crashes. SUVs are also dangerous for their own occupants. The vehicles' high profile and narrow track width makes them very rollover prone. Because the typical SUV also has a weak roof and poor crash protection, this combination of hazards places SUV occupants at a high risk of death or paralysis. Although rollover crashes are rare as a type of crash, the death toll from these crashes accounts for a third of all highway motor vehicle deaths, and is sixty percent of the deaths in SUVs.

http://www.citizen.org/autosafety/suvsafety/

Safest vehicle out there, by type, is a minivan. But most wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those because they're not cool/popular/manly/whatever.

When they told you that SUV's were safe, they lied to you. You didn't buy safety, you bought an ad campaign. Congratulations.

BRM
08-24-2006, 10:42 AM
If you chose safety, you chose... poorly.

Safest vehicle out there, by type, is a minivan. But most wouldn't be caught dead driving one of those because they're not cool/popular/manly/whatever.

When they told you that SUV's were safe, they lied to you. You didn't buy safety, you bought an ad campaign. Congratulations.

I didn't buy an SUV. I've never owned one. I was simply stating that most people choose them because they feel safer driving them. So they chose poorly.

My wife drives a minivan by the way. :)

zombie-a-go-go
08-24-2006, 10:42 AM
I'm 6'10" tall -- that pretty much limits me to driving SUV-type cars if I want to ride with any sort of comfort.

Sorry to endanger your life, but it's only very recently that auto manufacturers have started to offer "mini-SUV"/wagon cars that offer me enough room to drive without extensive interior modifications that I can't afford.

So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying "sorry to endanger your life, but I want to be comfortable."

That's awesome.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 10:51 AM
So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying "sorry to endanger your life, but I want to be comfortable."

That's awesome.

I don't know how we got off on this tangent but let me throw my hat in the ring.

If people don't want to be comfortable and want to drive something larger that's somehow bad because it "endagers others lives".

But if people want to drive small cars, which will result in more injuries durring crashes and drive up insurance costs for the rest of us, and put an additional strain on the health care system, that is OK?

All vehichles have postives AND weaknesses. How arrogent to think you drive the "perfectly socially responsible vechicle".

Caveat Emperor
08-24-2006, 10:52 AM
So correct me if I'm wrong, but you're saying "sorry to endanger your life, but I want to be comfortable."

That's awesome.

Comfortable (in this case) = Ability to move my foot between gas and brake pedal on a drive longer than 10 minutes without causing knee strain and ability to have enough head-clearence to hit a pothole and not smack my head on the car roof.

When you're as tall as I am "comfortable" is a very relative term.

GAC
08-24-2006, 11:07 AM
Why would anyone buy an SUV now with $3.00 gas? This just flummoxes me. If you can't figure out what to do with your money, give it to me.

You'd like that wouldn't you! :lol:

I don't drive an SUV; but if someone wants or owns one and can afford the $3/gal of gas then that really is no business of yours or anyone elses as far as I'm concerned.

I drive 40 miles roundtrip every day. My wife 24. We like the area we live in out in the country, good school district, centrally located and accessible to the nearest town for groceries and what-not.

We find it ideal, and we're not gonna abandon all of those advantages/pluses, and move closer to our workplaces, where the school districts are not rated as good, the towns near our plants are not as nice, and we really don't care for the region, just because gas has hit $3/Gal or some are concerned that my familie's driving habits may be contributing to destroying the environment.

We recycle! :D

zombie-a-go-go
08-24-2006, 11:24 AM
I don't know how we got off on this tangent but let me throw my hat in the ring.

If people don't want to be comfortable and want to drive something larger that's somehow bad because it "endagers others lives".

But if people want to drive small cars, which will result in more injuries durring crashes and drive up insurance costs for the rest of us, and put an additional strain on the health care system, that is OK?

I didn't say that. I said SUV's aren't as safe as people think they are, and that an attitude of "my comfort over your safety" is an appalling attitude to have.

So let's recap:

SUV's not as safe as many people think - yes, I said that.
"My comfort more important than your safety" is a distasteful way of thinking - yes, I said that too.
People shouldn't drive what they want - I didn't say that.




All vehichles have postives AND weaknesses. How arrogent to think you drive the "perfectly socially responsible vechicle".

I didn't say that, either. In fact, I never said anything even approximating that. You're making stuff up, whole-cloth. Don't attribute things to me that I have neither said nor believe. That's intellectually dishonest.

But, in case you're curious - I own a Neon for going to the grocer, and at all other times I ride a bicycle. :)

zombie-a-go-go
08-24-2006, 11:33 AM
Comfortable (in this case) = Ability to move my foot between gas and brake pedal on a drive longer than 10 minutes without causing knee strain and ability to have enough head-clearence to hit a pothole and not smack my head on the car roof.

When you're as tall as I am "comfortable" is a very relative term.

Granted. And I don't think you should give up a vehicle you feel confortable and/or safe driving.

I do think that the attitude you expressed above, which as written suggested that you feel other people's safety isn't important so long as you're comfortable, is crap.

If you cats want to take umbrage with what I'm saying, feel free to - but if you want to discuss what you think I said instead of what I did say, you're not going to get very far.

5DOLLAR-BLEACHERBUM
08-24-2006, 11:33 AM
I paid 2.56 in dayton yesterday, huber heights is usually even cheaper by about 10 cents. If you buy 100$ in groceries from kroger in huber its 20 cents cheaper.

BRM
08-24-2006, 11:36 AM
I paid 2.56 in dayton yesterday, huber heights is usually even cheaper by about 10 cents. If you buy 100$ in groceries from kroger in huber its 20 cents cheaper.

Man, I hope we start seeing prices drop like that around here soon. It's still at $2.99 and has been there for around three weeks.

dabvu2498
08-24-2006, 11:39 AM
I didn't say that. I said SUV's aren't as safe as people think they are, and that an attitude of "my comfort over your safety" is an appalling attitude to have.

Actually, the article you posted earlier, about roll-overs, would say that the injuries sustained in SUV accidents would be more likely to occur to the occupants of the SUV. Therefore, the attitude is "my comfort over MY safety," which is rather common and not all that appalling.

Caveat Emperor
08-24-2006, 11:43 AM
I do think that the attitude you expressed above, which as written suggested that you feel other people's safety isn't important so long as you're comfortable, is crap.

I didn't particularly care for the ill-informed attitude that all people who drive SUVs are environment-hating, gas-guzzling, injury-causing ogres either. I'd drive a smaller car if I could (and I actually am planning on purchasing a car slightly smaller than my current Jeep) -- but I can't. Lots of realities like that to deal with when you don't conform to the physical norm.

Perhaps the flippant attitude wasn't needed. Sorry for causing everyone extra risk on the road with my SUV, but take solace in the fact that you can enjoy a flight in coach or buy pants/shoes at your local Dillards. :evil:

Roy Tucker
08-24-2006, 11:45 AM
Everyone has the right to buy and drive whatever they want as long as its legal.

However, our continued reliance upon oil and gasoline is not a good idea from a geo-political, economic, and environmental standpoint.

But I don't see it changing any time soon.

And I remember putting $.15/gallon gas in my '62 Falcon.

dabvu2498
08-24-2006, 11:47 AM
And I remember putting $.15/gallon gas in my '62 Falcon.
Heck, I can remember putting $.91 in my '83 Buick Century.

GAC
08-24-2006, 11:48 AM
And I remember putting $.15/gallon gas in my '62 Falcon.

Remember the corner Gas Wars? And they'd also come out, pump your car, check your oil, clean your windshield, and if that wasn't enough..... they'd give you stamps. ;)

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 11:48 AM
SUV's not as safe as many people think - yes, I said that.
"My comfort more important than your safety" is a distasteful way of thinking - yes, I said that too.
People shouldn't drive what they want - I didn't say that.

No, you are right, you didn't say "people shouldn't drive what they want". But your implication was that people who choose comfort in their vechicle are "appalling" (and you did say that) and that people should choose their autos based on "protecting" everybody else and not their own wants and needs.

I was simply responding that having a smaller auto also had negitive impacts on other drivers via helping to increase the health care costs for all. I find driving up my healthcare costs so you can save some money at the pump, pretty distastefull if you want to get right down to it.

So it gets right back to what I said before. You are free to find other's choices in autos "appalling". But I am free to do the same. And at the end of the day, EVERY auto has a negitive impact on someone else in one form or another.

westofyou
08-24-2006, 12:02 PM
I find driving up my healthcare costs so you can save some money at the pump, pretty distastefull if you want to get right down to it.

More distatesful then global warming, state supported actions in oil bearing countries, exploitation of the wilderness to get more dinosaur juice?

I'll pay a bit more to stop or slow down any of the above.

I live in the city and those damn SUV's don't really have a place on streets designed for streetcars and wagon trains.

They're a menace to street sight lines.

Rojo
08-24-2006, 01:13 PM
So it gets right back to what I said before. You are free to find other's choices in autos "appalling". But I am free to do the same. And at the end of the day, EVERY auto has a negitive impact on someone else in one form or another.

This isn't quite right. SUV's are the unsafe vehicle -- to their drivers and to the unfortunate souls they run over. If anything's driving up injuries and fatalities, it's SUV's.

To paraphrase George Constanza, "We're living in a society, here!". We have all kinds of regulations that check individual desires in the interest of greater society: zoning laws, anti-smoking laws, seatbelt laws, drunk driving laws. Driving a military assault vehicle on the highway is just plain anti-social excess and screams out for regulation.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 01:19 PM
This isn't quite right. SUV's are the unsafe vehicle -- to their drivers and to the unfortunate souls they run over. If anything's driving up injuries and fatalities, it's SUV's.

Driving a military assault vehicle on the highway is just plain anti-social excess and screams out for regulation.

SUV's are unsafe, I don't argue that. Take a corner at 50mph in one and see what happens. But driving a tiny wind-up car that would be crushed into a heap if it hit a dog isn't "safe" either. So is driving a sports car with a monster engine that can launch you through a stone wall if you are not carefull. So are the tricked out "fast and furious" cars driven by testostrone laden teenagers. All autos are inherriently unsafe. So unless you want to outlaw cars alltogether or ONLY have specially designed cars that have no performance, are armoured and designed specifically so no one else can get hurt in a crash, people will continue to be injured, maimed and killed by autos.

The bit about being "anti-social" by driving a larger vechile is what I really have a beef with. There are plenty of good reasons to drive a larger car than just vanity, trendyness and social status. I don't care for the assumption that because someone drives a larger auto they are automatically a anti-social pig, on the lookout to destroy all those around them.

LoganBuck
08-24-2006, 02:08 PM
We just changed from a Chevy Blazer (the S10 model) to a Rendezvous. Better fuel economy, more room to manuver inside, an SUV feel, AWD (we do need it, we live on a back road in Logan county, GAC knows what I mean), and less risk of a rollover. Also my insurance dropped $89 per year by switching. So in the minds of a the insurance company the Lighter weight SUV with the crumple zones, and extra airbags and lower center of gravity is better. I will miss the ability to go urban commando in parking lots, as the shocks and suspension on this won't take driving over parking blocks. I can still do that with my truck if I want.

Rojo
08-24-2006, 02:49 PM
So unless you want to outlaw cars alltogether or ONLY have specially designed cars that have no performance, are armoured and designed specifically so no one else can get hurt in a crash, people will continue to be injured, maimed and killed by autos.

Let's head back up the slippery slope. There are all kinds of ways we regulate cars that's where we get the term "street legal". Removing oversized SUV's would be just one more.

RANDY IN INDY
08-24-2006, 03:09 PM
As long as it's legal, I will choose whatever I want. I. personally, don't want or need anyone telling me what I can or can't drive.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 03:26 PM
Let's head back up the slippery slope. There are all kinds of ways we regulate cars that's where we get the term "street legal". Removing oversized SUV's would be just one more.

So the issue isn't safety, obviously, since all cars are inheriently unsafe.

So then it's an issue of you think they are excessive and a waste of resources so you think they should be outlawed. Let's be honest about what we are saying here.

And where does this end? Some do-gooder decides that all sports cars are bad because they go to darn fast and might hurt someone so we outlaw them? And another group decides that automatic transmissions are wastefull so we should only drive stick shifts? And yet another group decides the convertables are just too much conspicious consumption so we have to get rid of those?

If you don't like SUV's and find them distastefull then don't buy one. I have no issue with that at all, in fact, I admire that you are willing to stand for what you believe in. I guess I just don't remember you getting a vote in what form of auto I drive, regardless if you approve of it or not.

Rojo
08-24-2006, 03:31 PM
As long as it's legal, I will choose whatever I want. I. personally, don't want or need anyone telling me what I can or can't drive.

A sherman tank? a dragster? a nitro-powered funny car?

My point is that maybe a Hummer shouldn't be legal? I'm not stumping for a whole new abrogation of rights. We already regulate what kinds of cars you can drive. Why not adjust that? In the interest of safety, of global warming, of energy independence.

dabvu2498
08-24-2006, 03:32 PM
And where does this end? Some do-gooder decides that all sports cars are bad because they go to darn fast and might hurt someone so we outlaw them? And another group decides that automatic transmissions are wastefull so we should only drive stick shifts? And yet another group decides the convertables are just too much conspicious consumption so we have to get rid of those?
I'll add one... Do we ban all homes over a certain square footage? Big homes use lots of fossil fuels.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 03:42 PM
My point is that maybe a Hummer shouldn't be legal? I'm not stumping for a whole new abrogation of rights. We already regulate what kinds of cars you can drive. Why not adjust that? In the interest of safety, of global warming, of energy independence.

Safety? Nope, already adressed it. All cars are unsafe.

Globay Warming? When that theory is proven beyond a doubt to be a law of nature and not a theory to explain it, I'll be a little more open to making sweeping policy changes to respond to it. Until then, I see no need for hysteria based on an unproven theory. The experts thought Pluto was a planet and were wrong....but they can't be wrong about the theory of global warming? Come on.

Energy Independence? That's the one area where I'd agree with you. Until American ween themselves from oil, and except the lifestyle changes that will follow we can't gripe about gas prices every time they tic up. I don't think outlawing SUV's is the way to deal with this, however, it's a decision that society as a whole has to come to on their own.

Rojo
08-24-2006, 03:44 PM
I'll add one... Do we ban all homes over a certain square footage? Big homes use lots of fossil fuels.

Maybe, if a bunch of McMansions box me in on the freeway. Those granite counter tops will take your head clean off.

On a serious note, I believe the Nixon administration put some building codes in place (regarding windows), in the wake of the 73 oil shocks.

Just to make sure, do you put big cars ahead of national security?

How's that for framing?

westofyou
08-24-2006, 03:49 PM
Until then, I see no need for hysteria based on an unproven theory. The experts thought Pluto was a planet and were wrong....but they can't be wrong about the theory of global warming? Come on.

Hysteria?

How about responsibility?

The "experts" also once thought the earth was the center of the universe, that blood letting was good for you and that tomatos were poison.

A Day in LA is enough to convince me that something's is awry.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 04:00 PM
How about responsibility?

How is using the theory of global warming to get rid of autos one doesn't care for fall under the catigory of "responsbility"? Because if it was really about poor gas millage and using too many resources we'd have to ban pickups. sports cars and RV's too. But no one seems to be calling for those to be outlawed (yet) just the SUV's they don't like.

If you truely buy into GW, then all autos are bad are they not? Shouldn't all autos be outlawed so we can really adress the problem?

Of course, espousing that view point prob wouldn't go too far. So you better start with the easy pickens...those evil SUV's.

westofyou
08-24-2006, 04:03 PM
Shouldn't all autos be outlawed so we can really adress the problem?
I buy into pollution, so that would be a good start, but hey I live in a green city, went to a hippie school and have more working bikes then cars, so maybe I'm the wrong guy to query on that.

Rojo
08-24-2006, 04:03 PM
If you truely buy into GW, then all autos are bad are they not? Shouldn't all autos be outlawed so we can really adress the problem?

Of course, espousing that view point prob wouldn't go too far. So you better start with the easy pickens...those evil SUV's.

Because you can't do everything, you don't do anything?

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 04:06 PM
Because you can't do everything, you don't do anything?

Ok, so you want to ban pickups, sports cars and RV's then too?

They typically have very poor MPG and in some cases are very large.

westofyou
08-24-2006, 04:23 PM
My gearhead friend told me that Vespa's emit more pollutants than his new Suburban.

Ltlabner
08-24-2006, 04:25 PM
My gearhead friend told me that Vespa's emit more pollutants than his new Suburban.


I was gearing up to fire off a witty and biteing comeback to this. Then I realized something that might be important......

What he heck is a Vespa?

:laugh:

westofyou
08-24-2006, 04:26 PM
I was gearing up to fire off a witty and biteing comeback to this. Then I realized something that might be important......

What he heck is a Vespa?

:laugh:


http://moped2.org/i/vespa.jpg

Caveat Emperor
08-24-2006, 04:28 PM
I live in the city and those damn SUV's don't really have a place on streets designed for streetcars and wagon trains.

They're a menace to street sight lines.

I work in a city, and unless I'm driving an SUV -- I'm walking. Its a long walk from where I live to downtown.

SUVs are a necessary evil in our current society. The answer has, and will continue to be, better, more reliable, cleaner public transportaiton from the suburbs to the city -- but that will never happen in this town.