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fisch11
04-22-2006, 01:20 PM
I was sparked to write this in response to the "Get Rid of Dave Williams" thread.

Below are the career ERA's for the current Reds rotation (including Paul Wilson).

IP (Innings Pitched) ERA
Harang 527 4.50
Arroyo 588 4.58
Claussen 239 4.66
Milton 1,374 4.98
Williams 334 4.24
Wilson 941 4.86

In no particular order, but why get rid of Dave Williams again?

RedsMan3203
04-22-2006, 01:24 PM
Why?

Because he has been given 3 starts and has shown nothing in those 3 starts. He has a fast ball that has been topping out at 84.

He has pitched 12 innings and given up 19 hits, Allowed 15 runs, Walked 9 people and only has K'ed 8.

Somewhere out there.. There is someone that is goign to do better.

CTA513
04-22-2006, 01:38 PM
Bronson Arroyo: 26.2 IP, 24 Hits, 9 ER, 5 BB, 22 K
Brandon Claussen: 17 IP, 15 Hits, 6 ER, 4 BB, 15 K
Aaron Harang: 22.2 IP, 30 Hits, 16 ER, 5 BB, 22 K
Eric Milton: 18 IP, 20 Hits, 13 ER, 5 BB, 13 K
Dave Williams: 12 IP, 19 Hits, 14 ER, 9 BB, 7 K


The rest of the starters are not walking as many and striking out alot more. They are also giving the Reds more innings, which means they dont have to use the bullpen as much. Belsile has pitched 7 innings of long relief in Williams last 2 starts.... thats 1 more inning that Williams pitched those 2 starts. :laugh:

Big Klu
04-22-2006, 01:40 PM
Bronson Arroyo: 26.2 IP, 24 Hits, 9 ER, 5 BB, 22 K
Brandon Claussen: 17 IP, 15 Hits, 6 ER, 4 BB, 15 K
Aaron Harang: 22.2 IP, 30 Hits, 16 ER, 5 BB, 22 K
Eric Milton: 18 IP, 20 Hits, 13 ER, 5 BB, 13 K
Dave Williams: 12 IP, 19 Hits, 14 ER, 9 BB, 7 K


The rest of the starters are not walking as many and striking out alot more. They are also giving the Reds more innings, which means they dont have to use the bullpen as much. Belsile has pitched 7 innings of long relief in Williams last 2 starts.... thats 1 more inning that Williams pitched those 2 starts. :laugh:

And Matt Belisle was more effective in those seven innings than Williams was in his six!

UC_Ken
04-22-2006, 01:44 PM
I wasn't concerned about Harang but his hits rate is alarming. And he's not being beaten by cheap hits, the HR's hit off him Wednesday would have been still orbiting the earth if the bleachers didn't get in their way. Hope he's healthy.

Caveat Emperor
04-22-2006, 01:45 PM
In no particular order, but why get rid of Dave Williams again?

He's a velocityless pitcher who's been BABIP lucky his entire major league carrer. When you live at 82-84 MPH, you'd better have precision control or the ability to throw a 65 MPH changeup on command -- and Dave Williams really has neither. His bread and butter pitch is a slow curve that he can't drop in reliably for strikes, so batters just wait on his "fast"ball and take him to the house.

He's certainly not as bad as we've seen thus far -- but he's not very good. Certainly to compare him to Harang and Arroyo is silly. Milton is equally the garbage pitcher that Williams is, nobody is going to argue with you there. Claussen has at least shown signs of improving -- so while his careers aren't better than Williams, he's at least moving in the right direction in terms of missing bats and recording outs while not relying on luck the way Williams does.

Williams is the kind of pitcher that has killed the Reds rotation in years past -- inability to miss bats and propensity for being lit up. The sooner he finds his way to long relief, the better.

marcshoe
04-22-2006, 01:46 PM
Williams' updated numbers: 346.2 innings, 4.47 ERA.

And climbing.

fisch11
04-22-2006, 02:58 PM
I understand he has had a rough start to say the least. But it's still one month into the season, and having a career ERA (albeit early) lower than anyone else on our staff allows him more oppurtunities in this rotation. It is insanely early to boot him after 3 outings with his past. We have had much worse than Dave Williams. Now if he continues on this trend for another month, now we can talk about replacing him with Paul or someone else. Imagine if we booted Jr. after it took him an month to hit a homerun last season? Comeback player of the year.

Spitball
04-22-2006, 03:28 PM
I don't remember ever seeing Williams pitch with Pittsburgh, but he did have some success. A pitcher can have some success with mid-eighties stuff, but he will have to have pin-point control and stay down with his pitches. Williams doesn't appear to have much control, and his pitches are up. He doesn't have the velocity to pitch behind in the count and that curveball doesn't break, it rolls. It looks like he has a long way to go before he can be an effective pitcher.

Highlifeman21
04-23-2006, 01:29 PM
I was sparked to write this in response to the "Get Rid of Dave Williams" thread.

Below are the career ERA's for the current Reds rotation (including Paul Wilson).

IP (Innings Pitched) ERA
Harang 527 4.50
Arroyo 588 4.58
Claussen 239 4.66
Milton 1,374 4.98
Williams 334 4.24
Wilson 941 4.86

In no particular order, but why get rid of Dave Williams again?


Williams and Claussen both have relatively small sample sizes for that career ERA. That means that you need to look at the emerging trend for ERA (current season), which so far this season means he's had 1 remotely decent start and that's it. Claussen was having an ok year until he decided to help the Brewers set a major league record for HR in an inning.

I don't think it's any secret Claussen has more upside than Williams, but right now Arroyo and Harang have been the only arms to show any signs of consistency and stability.

marcshoe
04-23-2006, 05:24 PM
Any way you look at it, this rotation needs another arm or two before the team can think about contending.