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View Full Version : Keith Hernandez: 'Women Don't Belong In Dugout'



savafan
04-24-2006, 12:51 PM
http://www.wnbc.com/sports/8953324/detail.html

SAN DIEGO -- New York Mets broadcaster Keith Hernandez's comment that women "don't belong in the dugout" drew criticism Sunday from San Diego Padres manager Bruce Bochy, who supported the female member of his training staff and said he was surprised her gender even came up.

Hernandez made the remark during the second inning of New York's 8-1 victory in San Diego on Saturday night. Mike Piazza homered for the Padres and exchanged a high-five in the dugout with 33-year-old Kelly Calabrese, the Padres' massage therapist.

"Who is the girl in the dugout, with the long hair?" Hernandez said. "What's going on here? You have got to be kidding me. Only player personnel in the dugout."

Hernandez found out later in the broadcast that Calabrese was with the Padres training staff.

"I won't say that women belong in the kitchen, but they don't belong in the dugout," Hernandez said.

Hernandez, a former Mets first baseman and "Seinfeld" guest star, then laughed and said: "You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have."

Bochy said before San Diego's 7-4 win over New York on Sunday that he did not hear what Hernandez said but was told about it -- and was not amused.

"Kelly is a part of this ballclub," Bochy said. "She's a part of the training staff. I don't know the actual comments, I just heard about it, but she's been here for a while and played a major role with this club in getting guys ready to play a ballgame."

Calabrese said she was flabbergasted by Hernandez's comments.

"It amazes me that somebody of that caliber that has obviously played the game before and is in front of an audience of millions of people would say something like that," she said of Hernandez. "It's a little shocking. But you know what -- it happens. He not only discredited me as a person, but he discredited women."

Calabrese then walked down the hallway to the Padres training room and joked, "Should I go in the kitchen now?"

Hernandez had no comment after the game but said during the second inning of the broadcast Sunday that he was sorry if he offended anyone.

Chip R
04-24-2006, 12:58 PM
He's Keith Hernandez. ;)

traderumor
04-24-2006, 12:59 PM
blame it on the magic loogy

smith288
04-24-2006, 01:01 PM
"No play for Mr Gray"

M2
04-24-2006, 01:02 PM
"Women don't belong in the dugout."

Isn't that what Hernandez used to say to Gary Carter?

RedsManRick
04-24-2006, 01:04 PM
Reeee-jected!

RedFanAlways1966
04-24-2006, 01:07 PM
33-year-old Kelly Calabrese, the Padres' massage therapist.

"Kelly is a part of this ballclub," Bochy said. "She's a part of the training staff. I don't know the actual comments, I just heard about it, but she's been here for a while and played a major role with this club in getting guys ready to play a ballgame."

Okay... I'll ask: Does she give massages to players IN THE DUGOUT DURING GAMES? Or does she do the massage thing before and after games? I assume that the Pads have a regular trainer on the bench (ala Larry Starr for the older crowd). If the answer to question #1 is no, then she has no reason to be in the dugout IMO (her work is done in the clubhouse).

But, to deflect the PC-crowd (if that is possible!), I do not know. If she does work in the dugout while the game is taking place, then she has every right to be there. If not, then she (like the GM of a team) has no right to be in the dugout during the game.

Sounds like Hernandez' comment was made without knowing the answer to question 1. So that makes him (drum-roll, please)... politically incorrect.

smith288
04-24-2006, 01:08 PM
But, to deflect the PC-crowd (if that is possible!)

Why do you HATE women??? ;)

membengal
04-24-2006, 01:24 PM
"Nice game, pretty boy."

Dom Heffner
04-24-2006, 01:28 PM
RFA- It's good to know some things never change. :)

BigDonkey44
04-24-2006, 01:38 PM
I agree, she has no place in the dugout....

Team Clark
04-24-2006, 01:38 PM
Okay... I'll ask: Does she give massages to players IN THE DUGOUT DURING GAMES? Or does she do the massage thing before and after games? I assume that the Pads have a regular trainer on the bench (ala Larry Starr for the older crowd). If the answer to question #1 is no, then she has no reason to be in the dugout IMO (her work is done in the clubhouse).

But, to deflect the PC-crowd (if that is possible!), I do not know. If she does work in the dugout while the game is taking place, then she has every right to be there. If not, then she (like the GM of a team) has no right to be in the dugout during the game.

Sounds like Hernandez' comment was made without knowing the answer to question 1. So that makes him (drum-roll, please)... politically incorrect.

I have been on two teams that have had women as Asst. Trainers. Never an issue. She is probably a lot more qualified than what they have let on. I can't think of ANY reason why she would not be allowed on the bench. It's not like she's giving hitting tips and if she is... good for her. I'd love to hear what Katie Feeney or Kim Ng has to say about this.

Rick Stowe does all of his work behind the scenes and you can't watch a game on Fox without seeing him sit on the Reds bench. I personally do not care for Rick but I would not have a problem, nor should anyone else, with him sitting on the bench during a game.

smith288
04-24-2006, 01:40 PM
I agree, she has no place in the dugout....
She SHOULD be doing the laundry if she knew was was good for her...

*running away*

JUST KIDDING!

max venable
04-24-2006, 02:07 PM
Is it fair to say that Keith Hernandez is now more famous for his appearances on Seinfeld than anything he did on the baseball field?

Roy Tucker
04-24-2006, 02:11 PM
I think Keith Hernandez needs to engage his brain *before* speaking instead of afterwards.

dsmith421
04-24-2006, 02:17 PM
Why do you HATE women??? ;)

I think the "PC Backlash" people have officially become more obnoxious to me than the "PC People."

Hernandez said a dumb thing and should apologize. Why is this so difficult?

And for the commenter who made the comment about women not belonging in the dugout, apparently Chris Young, Bruce Bochy, and other Padres disagree:

“It was offensive to her and the other women she was watching with and I'm sure to a lot of other viewers,” said Young. “(Calabrese) handles herself in a completely professional manner and all the guys in here handle it with professionalism. She makes each and every one of us better."

“It's 2006. Wake up. We have women fighting on our front lines in Iraq. I think they can be in a baseball clubhouse. My wife is in law school. Imagine that. Women can be lawyers, too.”

--

"Kelly is a part of this ballclub," said Bochy. "She's a part of the training staff. I don't know the actual comments, I just heard about it, but she's been here for a while and played a major role with this club in getting guys ready to play a ballgame.

"I wish I knew more, if I could have heard what he said," Bochy said. "I don't think [the comments] are appropriate in this day. I didn't think gender was even an issue anymore."

Bochy also noted that comments about her being in the dugout on a day that the Padres were honoring the military was out of line as, "there are a lot of females in the military."

westofyou
04-24-2006, 02:21 PM
Is it fair to say that Keith Hernandez is now more famous for his appearances on Seinfeld than anything he did on the baseball field?
No way... in fact my buddy just sent me a Keith Hernandez rookie card from 1975.

He could pick, played on teams that won and was a premier player in an era that I savor more than Seinfeld (which I really like)

Falls City Beer
04-24-2006, 02:25 PM
No way... in fact my buddy just sent me a Keith Hernandez rookie card from 1975.

He could pick, played on teams that won and was a premier player in an era that I savor more than Seinfeld (which I really like)

He's still an overrated midget with a Napoleon complex. Former pro athletes should be seen and not heard, IMO.

max venable
04-24-2006, 02:25 PM
Hernandez:

You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there -- always have."
He said this right after his comment. He was kidding...why do people get so hyper-sensitive?

Amazing how a comment, said jokingly--and then referred to by the person who said it as a joke, ends up getting a thread this long.


Calabrese then walked down the hallway to the Padres training room and joked, "Should I go in the kitchen now?"

Hernandez had no comment after the game but said during the second inning of the broadcast Sunday that he was sorry if he offended anyone.

So, the woman joked back...doesn't seem like she was all that offended...and oh yeah, Keith did apologize, too

Bochy:
I didn't think gender was even an issue anymore.It's not...that's why I though we could joke a little bit and not get pounded for it.

westofyou
04-24-2006, 02:26 PM
He's still an overrated midget with a Napoleon complex. Former pro athletes should be seen and not heard, IMO.
Perhaps, but I was strictly refering to Seinfeld vs MLB Legacy

dsmith421
04-24-2006, 02:31 PM
So, the woman joked back...doesn't seem like she was all that offended...and oh yeah, Keith did apologize, too

Hernandez's apology:

Hernandez: “You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there. I always have. . . . Only in California. I just can't believe it. You think you've seen everything and, you know, there's always something new.”

Hernandez: “I know I made some strong statements that she didn't belong in the dugout. I stand by those statements. I think it's a man's game.”

Then, after being called on the carpet by SNY officials, including Curt Gowdy Jr.:

"In my discussion I made a couple of inappropriate comments," Hernandez said. "If I have offended anybody I sincerely apologize."

Sources:
http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/graney/20060424-9999-1s24graney.html
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/mariners/2002949590_nlbeat24.html

That's fine with me. But I can certainly understand how some people would be insulted by those statements. I just think Hernandez is a dumb meathead who made a stupid joke that fell flat. I've done it before, I sympathize. It's his pathetic attempts to justify it during the game (citing to non-existent MLB rules, for example) that make this a story.

max venable
04-24-2006, 02:36 PM
Hernandez's apology:

Hernandez: “You know I am only teasing. I love you gals out there. I always have. . . . Only in California. I just can't believe it. You think you've seen everything and, you know, there's always something new.”

Hernandez: “I know I made some strong statements that she didn't belong in the dugout. I stand by those statements. I think it's a man's game.”

Then, after being called on the carpet by SNY officials, including Curt Gowdy Jr.:

"In my discussion I made a couple of inappropriate comments," Hernandez said. "If I have offended anybody I sincerely apologize."


Now, see, that changes things, IMO.

But, on the other hand, the man is entitled to his opinion...and we're all entitled to think he's a jerk base on that opinion.

smith288
04-24-2006, 02:43 PM
I think the "PC Backlash" people have officially become more obnoxious to me than the "PC People."


And I officially dont care what you think about me and my "PC backlash" attitude.

Highlifeman21
04-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Okay... I'll ask: Does she give massages to players IN THE DUGOUT DURING GAMES? Or does she do the massage thing before and after games? I assume that the Pads have a regular trainer on the bench (ala Larry Starr for the older crowd). If the answer to question #1 is no, then she has no reason to be in the dugout IMO (her work is done in the clubhouse).

But, to deflect the PC-crowd (if that is possible!), I do not know. If she does work in the dugout while the game is taking place, then she has every right to be there. If not, then she (like the GM of a team) has no right to be in the dugout during the game.

Sounds like Hernandez' comment was made without knowing the answer to question 1. So that makes him (drum-roll, please)... politically incorrect.


She said this morning on Cold Pizza that she'll rub down pitchers in the dugout after they come off the mound. Apparently she didn't know about the comments until her parents, who were watching and listening to Hernandez, informed her.

She must play a pretty important role for the Padres, since she was wearing her own jersey. I don't recall ever seeing a trainer wearing the actual jersey of the team, but rather some other team apparel and jackets.

smith288
04-24-2006, 02:47 PM
I like Chris Speilman's comment about when his pregnant wife was complaining about labor pain...it was something like:

I dont want to hear about the pain, just show me a baby..

Gotta love Chris.

I honestly dont think Chris or Keith Hernandez think women are inferior. I just think more people these days are professional victims or like to label someone as a victim (like this trainer who apparently joked back) based on just standard, crude or obnoxious humor.

I honestly think what Keith said is not an abnormal thought to many though I disagree with him. I just think he is getting crucified for an opinion we are all entitled to have.

If you disagree, fine, but an opinion is only wrong relative to your own.

Falls City Beer
04-24-2006, 02:48 PM
My thing is: what the hell is it to Hernandez what goes on in the Padres' dugout? Bugger off, schmuck.

Chip R
04-24-2006, 02:49 PM
I think Keith Hernandez needs to engage his brain *before* speaking instead of afterwards.

I think you could say that for 90% of the media.

columbusbrian
04-24-2006, 03:14 PM
I am actually very impressed with the overall attitude about this incident. K Hernandez is a huge jerk, what he said is stupid.

However, in response to the posters who think this is overblown PC nonsense, I think this falls squarely in the should have known better. Is it okay to be a neanderthal in 2006? yes.

Is it okay to do so in front on a live television audiance. Hell no. You want to joke about a woman's place, go ahead. But if a person is dumb enough to do so on a mass media format, he's going to get smacked down.

I have been making a mental compliation of should have known betters for a while now. Heres one for you. Top on the list is Tim Johnson of the Blue Jays. Lying about being in Vietnam is not wrong in my book. He didn't hurt anyone, no one should care whether or not the man fought for his country with respect to his role in MLB. But he should've know better than to say something that stupid as a public figure. You want to be an idiot, do it at home. If you do it in public, patriotic people (me), or people who think denegrating women in public is wrong (me) are going to get pissed.

Public figures have to abide by a different set of rules in public discourse, they get paid accordingly, and Kieth Hernandez is due a swift kick in the nuts aoubt now.

max venable
04-24-2006, 03:17 PM
Lying about being in Vietnam is not wrong in my book.
Which book, exactly, is that? ;)

M2
04-24-2006, 03:18 PM
I'm angered Hernandez didn't refer to women as dames. That would have been more in line with the cartoonish nature of his comments.

KronoRed
04-24-2006, 03:43 PM
I'm angered Hernandez didn't refer to women as dames. That would have been more in line with the cartoonish nature of his comments.
Dames is too old school.

DeadRedinCT
04-24-2006, 03:48 PM
Wouldn't "broads" be more appropriate?

(slinks back into cave)

smith288
04-24-2006, 03:52 PM
Lying about being in Vietnam is not wrong in my book. He didn't hurt anyone, no one should care whether or not the man fought for his country with respect to his role in MLB.

Lying in general is wrong and it applies to the person's character. Be it about baseball, vietnam or if they ate pop tarts for breakfast.

RedFanAlways1966
04-24-2006, 04:14 PM
Lying in general is wrong and it applies to the person's character. Be it about baseball, vietnam or if they ate pop tarts for breakfast.

:clap:

Roy Tucker
04-24-2006, 04:14 PM
I'm angered Hernandez didn't refer to women as dames. That would have been more in line with the cartoonish nature of his comments.
There are no books like a dame,
And nothin' looks like a dame.
There are no drinks like a dame,
And nothin' thinks like a dame,
Nothin' acts like a dame,
Or attracts like a dame.
There ain't a thing that's wrong with any man here
That can't be cured by pullin' him near
A girly, womanly, female, feminine dame!

smith288
04-24-2006, 04:18 PM
:clap:
Im astonished that point had to be made...but alas...

icehole3
04-24-2006, 04:41 PM
I wish I was pitching for the Padres, I couldve use a rubdown. Those guys dont realize how good theyve got it. She's a hottie.

smith288
04-24-2006, 04:50 PM
I wish I was pitching for the Padres, I couldve use a rubdown. Those guys dont realize how good theyve got it. She's a hottie.
Better get your ultra asbestos fire proof suit on...

Falls City Beer
04-24-2006, 04:57 PM
Better get your ultra asbestos fire proof suit on...

Get over yourself.

If you don't understand that saying someone's hot is different from what Hernandez said, well....I think it's you that the PC police have got to.

Team Clark
04-24-2006, 05:23 PM
I wish I was pitching for the Padres, I couldve use a rubdown. Those guys dont realize how good theyve got it. She's a hottie.


Hottie? Really? Where did you see a pic? Can you shoot me a link?

Team Clark
04-24-2006, 09:52 PM
Hottie? Really? Where did you see a pic? Can you shoot me a link?

Never mind. She has a nice interview on ESPN.com She is a hottie.

The Baumer
04-24-2006, 09:59 PM
Girls in the dugout are never a good idea. As a high school athlete who had two attractive women scorekeepers on the bench I can tell you. Anyone associated with baseball can tell you that. Bochy just didn't want to let anyone discredit or possibly belittle anyone on his training staff, so he stuck up for her. The woman in question should have shined it on and not made a the situation a parallel to the women's right movement. I think that's a bit of a stretch. He didn't call her inferior or lame, he just commented on the fact that when men see boobies it takes their attention away.

Falls City Beer
04-24-2006, 10:02 PM
Girls


nm

westofyou
04-24-2006, 10:51 PM
Girls in the dugout are never a good idea.

Yeah girls are little and their jacks and balls get in the way... women OTOH... they can be in there if they earn the job that puts them there. I'm sure Kim Ng would agree.

The Baumer
04-24-2006, 10:56 PM
Semantics! :D Catch the fever!

Anyway, in a perfect world a woman can enter a room full of men and they won't be distracted, but that's reality. Especially if an attractive woman is giving out massages to your buds at the end of the bench.

smith288
04-24-2006, 11:03 PM
Get over yourself.

If you don't understand that saying someone's hot is different from what Hernandez said, well....I think it's you that the PC police have got to.
Seriously dude... You didnt pick up that I was on his side basically saying what you are to me?

And here I thought you had a sense of humor...

Falls City Beer
04-24-2006, 11:06 PM
Seriously dude... You didnt pick up that I was on his side basically saying what you are to me?

And here I thought you had a sense of humor...

My mistake. I mistook your comment.

smith288
04-24-2006, 11:12 PM
Shwew. Nothing would upset me more than someone thinking im an emowuss.

;)

wolfboy
04-24-2006, 11:19 PM
Hernandez:

He said this right after his comment. He was kidding...why do people get so hyper-sensitive?

Amazing how a comment, said jokingly--and then referred to by the person who said it as a joke, ends up getting a thread this long.

I would think that a joke like that would be acceptable if he knew her personally. In front of a national T.V. audience, directed towards someone you don't even know? Honestly, if Hernandez was peddling a stand up routine on Comedy Central, there's no story.

Look, I joke with my girlfriend about this stuff all the time. I tell her to go make me a sandwich, and she tells me to ask for directions. I wouldn't make those jokes with a complete stranger. I'd have to be an absolute idiot to do it on national television. The main point here is that if Hernandez wants a future in television, he should think these things out.

IslandRed
04-24-2006, 11:44 PM
Anyway, in a perfect world a woman can enter a room full of men and they won't be distracted, but that's reality. Especially if an attractive woman is giving out massages to your buds at the end of the bench.

There are endless distractions at a ballpark, even from the dugout, if you're of a mind to be distracted. Which most ballplayers are; they're hardly laser-focused on the game every second. They can just look up into the stands (and do) to see women. The sensibly-dressed lady at the end of the bench, the one they see every day, is not going to be a big deal.

vaticanplum
04-24-2006, 11:59 PM
Girls in the dugout are never a good idea. As a high school athlete who had two attractive women scorekeepers on the bench I can tell you. Anyone associated with baseball can tell you that. Bochy just didn't want to let anyone discredit or possibly belittle anyone on his training staff, so he stuck up for her. The woman in question should have shined it on and not made a the situation a parallel to the women's right movement. I think that's a bit of a stretch. He didn't call her inferior or lame, he just commented on the fact that when men see boobies it takes their attention away.

This line of thinking puts the responsibility on the girl. It's not her fault she has boobs. It's the men's fault for failing to concentrate on their jobs. If they are distracted, they have the ability to grow up and put it aside for another time.

She has been objectified and her occupation could suffer for something over which she has no control; thus, it does become part of the women's rights movement. It's no different from a statement such as, "Well, one of our trainers is black, and I've got a couple of racist guys on my team so they might be distracted if he is in the dugout." You cannot usually change others' feelings and prejudices just as you can't change the fact that men and women are often attracted to each other; they will think and do as they wish in their private lives. That's why it's important to set a standard of not allowing actions based on these feelings in the workplace.

RedsBaron
04-25-2006, 06:27 AM
What Hernandez said was stupid, but he has always been a jerk.

creek14
04-25-2006, 07:21 AM
This line of thinking puts the responsibility on the girl. It's not her fault she has boobs. It's the men's fault for failing to concentrate on their jobs. If they are distracted, they have the ability to grow up and put it aside for another time.

She has been objectified and her occupation could suffer for something over which she has no control; thus, it does become part of the women's rights movement. It's no different from a statement such as, "Well, one of our trainers is black, and I've got a couple of racist guys on my team so they might be distracted if he is in the dugout." You cannot usually change others' feelings and prejudices just as you can't change the fact that men and women are often attracted to each other; they will think and do as they wish in their private lives. That's why it's important to set a standard of not allowing actions based on these feelings in the workplace.

I was just going to say "Bite me, Keith." But VP's post is so much better.

macro
04-25-2006, 08:23 AM
"In my discussion I made a couple of inappropriate comments," Hernandez said. "If I have offended anybody I sincerely apologize."

No, he doesn't sincerely apologize. A sincere apology doesn't begin with "if I have offended...".

Someone just the other day referred to this as the classic non-apology apology. (I think it was on this board, in fact, but I'm not sure. If anyone remembers and can point me to that post, I'd appreciate it.)

KittyDuran
04-25-2006, 08:46 AM
There are endless distractions at a ballpark, even from the dugout, if you're of a mind to be distracted. Which most ballplayers are; they're hardly laser-focused on the game every second. They can just look up into the stands (and do) to see women. The sensibly-dressed lady at the end of the bench, the one they see every day, is not going to be a big deal.Case in point - Mr. Adam Dunn...[from the cheerleader article]
"I think it's a great idea," left fielder Adam Dunn said. "It gets the fans into (the game) and gives us something to look at."

GAC
04-25-2006, 08:47 AM
Elaine Benes: Well Keith. I'd be watching the 3rd base coach if I were you, because he's not waving you in.

smith288
04-25-2006, 09:05 AM
No, he doesn't sincerely apologize. A sincere apology doesn't begin with "if I have offended...".

Someone just the other day referred to this as the classic non-apology apology. (I think it was on this board, in fact, but I'm not sure. If anyone remembers and can point me to that post, I'd appreciate it.)

Its a non-apology apology probably because he doesnt think he said anything wrong in his mind and prefers to stay true to himself while "massaging" those who have their proverbial panties in a wad.

M2
04-25-2006, 09:34 AM
Girls in the dugout are never a good idea. As a high school athlete who had two attractive women scorekeepers on the bench I can tell you.

Because the impressions of hormone-fueled teenage boys are what should guide the adult universe.

We had female trainers on my HS football team. They were in the locker room and on the sidelines. I don't recall one ever distracting anyone during a game. Had a member of the girls' track team hold my blocks at home meets during my senior year as well. I ran a personal best when she held them early in the season and after that I wasn't messing with the good juju, she was holding my blocks.

The trainers and the track girl were all certifiably hot, but if you can't keep your mind on business during the game it seems to me that you're not a real serious member of the team in the first place.

max venable
04-25-2006, 11:14 AM
The more I think about it, the more I disagree with Hernandez, after all, if women were not allowing in the dugout, then who would give massages to all the hard-working men? Who would keep the dugout straightened up? Who would vacuum it? Who would do the laundry?

Women in the dugout? We NEED women in our dugouts!

Women in the dugout = GREAT idea!

macro
04-25-2006, 11:36 AM
Its a non-apology apology probably because he doesnt think he said anything wrong in his mind and prefers to stay true to himself while "massaging" those who have their proverbial panties in a wad.

Oh, I don't necessarily disagree, smith. But if he doesn't really feel that he was wrong, he should hold his ground and refuse to apologize (or pseudo-apologize or whatever). If he can't stand the heat, he shouldn't have made the comment. I'm not debating whether what he said what right or wrong (although I do have an opinion), I'm just taking exception to the dishonesty that is inherent in insincere apologies. (Wow, I used three consecutive words that begin with "in".)