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killuminati35
04-24-2006, 09:29 PM
Welcome to the Redzone. I found this on ESPN on an overview of Detroit's system where Ross originated:



The truth is the Reds never should have had Tony Womack. It was an absolute waste of a trade and his days were numbered. I think Wayne K. is slowly, but surely, putting together a puzzle. And these "scraps" of other teams are teams with good systems, better than ours. I think this kid's got some potential and will either help the team directly or be part of bringing in that much needed pitching. Patience, my friend.


Thanks for the welcome, and the article. I probably should have introduced myself before complaining in my first post. :)

If Philips and Ross end up working, then great, I'm just a little hesitant. Also, I would have liked to maybe use Womack to possible trade for a pitcher. I think he could have been a good peice to throw into a possible trade negotiation for a starting pitcher.

IslandRed
04-24-2006, 09:36 PM
I didn't notice that was your first post. Welcome to RedsZone!


Also, I would have liked to maybe use Womack to possible trade for a pitcher. I think he could have been a good peice to throw into a possible trade negotiation for a starting pitcher.

I wish that were the case, but it amused the rest of baseball quite a bit that the Reds gave up prospects to get him in the first place.

The Baumer
04-24-2006, 09:37 PM
I don't get it. A guy comes here and does bad, he gets flack. A guy comes here and does well, he gets flack. What do you want Brandon Phillips to do? He's played about as good as you can hope in his short time here. Is having an awesome week a bad thing?

Raisor
04-24-2006, 09:58 PM
If Philips and Ross end up working, then great, I'm just a little hesitant. Also, I would have liked to maybe use Womack to possible trade for a pitcher. I think he could have been a good peice to throw into a possible trade negotiation for a starting pitcher.


Any pitcher that Womack would be able to bring in trade would have no arms and only one leg and would have to spit the ball out of his mouth to send it to the plate.

Big Klu
04-24-2006, 10:02 PM
Any pitcher that Womack would be able to bring in trade would have no arms and only one leg and would have to spit the ball out of his mouth to send it to the plate.

None shall pass!

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/c/c7/Black_Knight.PNG/350px-Black_Knight.PNG

Raisor
04-24-2006, 10:04 PM
None shall pass!




What are you going to do, bleed on me?

Patrick Bateman
04-24-2006, 10:08 PM
Plus, we have to eat $1.1 million is salary. This trade did nothing but hurt.

Eating the salary has nothing to do with this transaction. That money was wasted the second DanO traded for Womack. We are simply just adding better players to the equation.

remdog
04-24-2006, 10:10 PM
Also, I would have liked to maybe use Womack to possible trade for a pitcher. I think he could have been a good peice to throw into a possible trade negotiation for a starting pitcher.

The only starter that Womack would bring is a guy that is the number 3 starter (in a two-starter league) pitching for Gino's Pizza in a slow-pitch beer league in Keokuck, Iowa.

Rem

Cedric
04-24-2006, 10:21 PM
I wouldn't overlook the fact that Arroyo prefers Ross at this point. Obviously you aren't going to let that hold your roster hostage, but if a decision is close it might save Ross.

Heath
04-24-2006, 10:23 PM
Cody Ross is Ryan Freel, minus the infielder gloves.

And a little cheaper.

remdog
04-24-2006, 10:29 PM
I wouldn't overlook the fact that Arroyo prefers Ross at this point. Obviously you aren't going to let that hold your roster hostage, but if a decision is close it might save Ross.

It very well could be that Arroyo does prefer Ross.....or, it could just be an excuse for Narron to get Ross some playing time every five days. (Shrug)

Rem

Cedric
04-24-2006, 10:31 PM
I could be wrong, but I've heard Chris and George mention that David Ross is Arroyo's preference. I also think Jerry hinted that before.

But you are right, it could be bs.

toledodan
04-24-2006, 10:36 PM
its a good move to get ross and cut womack. the team gets younger and better. i think when griffey comes back williams gets sent back to AAA ot mccracken gets released.

4256 Hits
04-24-2006, 10:39 PM
I think if he elects FA, then we don't have to pay him. Much like Jimenez last year. He had to go to the minors or forfeit his salary.

I think that Jimenez needed to accept the assignment to get the money because he had less than 5 years of MLB service time which obviously Womack has more than that so he can opt for FA and still be paid.

GullyFoyle
04-24-2006, 11:16 PM
I think that Jimenez needed to accept the assignment to get the money because he had less than 5 years of MLB service time which obviously Womack has more than that so he can opt for FA and still be paid.


Womack is guaranteed to make $2 million this season, with $900,000 of his salary being paid by the Yankees. If the 12-year veteran goes unclaimed by other teams, the Reds will still be on the hook for about $1 million -- which isn't petty cash for small-market clubs with responsible payrolls. Chief executive officer Bob Castellini was consulted about the situation.

per MLB:

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060424&content_id=1416114&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

TeamBoone
04-24-2006, 11:21 PM
Originally Posted by Cedric
I wouldn't overlook the fact that Arroyo prefers Ross at this point. Obviously you aren't going to let that hold your roster hostage, but if a decision is close it might save Ross.

I'm a little perplexed by this, though it was alluded to in an article.

What I don't understand is how he could have a preference at this juncture as LaRue has been behind the plate for Arroyo only once... and it was a ST game.

Caveat Emperor
04-24-2006, 11:25 PM
I'm a little perplexed by this, though it was alluded to in an article.

What I don't understand is how he could have a preference at this juncture as LaRue has been behind the plate for Arroyo only once... and it was a ST game.

He prefers the guy who has caught him in all of his starts to the guy he's never pitched with before. Not so much a "I like Dave better than Jason" preference, as it is a "I like working with what I know" preference.

Gallen5862
04-24-2006, 11:29 PM
It works out if Ross catching Arroyo makes him feel more comfortable go for it. Plus it gives Ross some playing time as well. The catchers will stay healthier that way getting some days off.

Cedric
04-24-2006, 11:30 PM
I'm thinking that something clicked for Bronson. I'm not sure it really matters , but possibly in his first start Bronson felt extremely comftorable with Ross.

Ron Madden
04-25-2006, 03:37 AM
Good move. :thumbup:

Ross can fill McCrackens role on the roster when JR comes off the DL.

We have a better bench without Womack and McCracken.

puca
04-25-2006, 08:36 AM
I'm not a big fan of carrying 3 catchers, especially when your 1b is a converted catcher himself. I really hope that is temporary.

I do admire the way Krivsky is turning the disfunctional collection of players he inherited into a reasonable roster.

redsmetz
04-25-2006, 09:01 AM
Good move. :thumbup:

Ross can fill McCrackens role on the roster when JR comes off the DL.

We have a better bench without Womack and McCracken.

I agree that Ross can fill McCracken's role, although I was fine with him being on the roster. Ross looks like McCracken, just ten years younger and maybe a tad slower.

Now if we can find some pitching under some rocks!

M2
04-25-2006, 09:17 AM
Yeah, it stinks that other teams are discarding better players than we have, but that happens. The only thing that matters is, are Phillips and Ross more useful than the guys we're cutting to make room for them? If the answer's yes, that's all the justification required.

I'll take that a step farther. Sometimes organizations let useful players slip between the cracks. What on earth was Tampa Bay thinking when it let Ryan Freel get away?

Also, sometimes organizations get impatient. No one thinks Brandon Phillips is going to be a superstar, but he's still only 24. The Indians essentially got down on him when he wasn't ready to be a full-time major leaguer at age 21. Is that really so shocking? California did the same basic thing with Mark McLemore back in the late 1980s. He failed in his early 20s, drifted aimlessly for a couple of years and then wound up being the everyday 2B for the Orioles at age 28, boasting a good glove and some on base skills.

At the very least, Phillips should be getting better at this point in his career and that's the kind of player the Reds need to be acquiring. Just because the Indians decided to cut bait doesn't mean he can't be or won't be a decent player at some juncture.

And Cody Ross is only 25. He's been a steady player, carrying a mid-.800s OPS all four seasons he's been in the upper minors. Some may claim he lacks tools, but he manages to hit for some power, he can run (though he hasn't much the past two seasons) and he's a very good fielder. He strikes me as the classic example of a guy who has been undervalued ... and the Reds need to be all over the undervalued.

Now if only Wayne Krivsky can spot and acquire more undervalued pitchers. BTW, I think he got a nice start on that with Bronson Arroyo.

max venable
04-25-2006, 11:19 AM
From today's Enquirer:

Ross says he won't overwhelm anyone with his skills.

"I play with heart and effort," he said. "I don't have a lot of tools. I'm just a baseball player."

Reds manager Jerry Narron and Krivsky love players like that.
:laugh: Can you say, "scrappy?"

westofyou
04-25-2006, 11:26 AM
From today's Enquirer:

:laugh: Can you say, "scrappy?"

Remember one mans scrappy is another mans crappy.

flyer85
04-25-2006, 11:45 AM
a final point ... I guess trading for Ross shows what Krivsky really thinks of guys like Sanchez, Long and McCracken.

Heath
04-25-2006, 12:13 PM
If Brandon Phillips could turn into Mark McLemore or Damian Easley for a few of their "career years" - put me down as impressed.

KronoRed
04-25-2006, 03:35 PM
I'm glad to see our GM and manager like ballplayers, rather then basketball players.

That would be a problem I think.