Hello Ross, goodbye Womack

[Highlifeman21]

The Reds have acquired OF Cody Ross from the Dodgers for a PTBNL and designated IF Tony Womack for assignment.

per the text messages I get on my phone from the Reds

[HBP]

I'll miss all those SB's from Womack...cough...

[OnBaseMachine]

I'm loving Krivsky. Another good pickup, and even better he got rid of Tony Womack.

[membengal]

Congrats to Krivsky, in small but important measures, improving the club steadily...

[51roscoe]

I don't know much about Ross.

[columbusbrian]

I never would have thought this at the begininng of the season, but the way PTBNL has played this season, I'm not surprised he's bagged us two up level prospects. Just shows you what hustle and a positive attitude can do for you. PTBNL, we will miss you. Welcome, Cody Ross

[Chip R]

I don't know much about Ross.

This should help.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45086

[Handofdeath]

The Reds have acquired OF Cody Ross from the Dodgers for a PTBNL and designated IF Tony Womack for assignment.

per the text messages I get on my phone from the Reds

Tony, we hardly got to know you and for that Reds fans are glad.

[pedro]

I don't know much about Ross.

Little guy, good CF.



Year Team Name League Age Org. Level G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI SB CS BB SO HBP IBB SH SF DP Avg Obp Slg Ops
1999 GCL Tigers GCL 18 Det Rk 42 142 19 31 8 3 4 18 3 1 16 28 .218 *.303 .401 *704
2000 West Michigan Midw 19 Det A 122 434 71 116 17 9 7 68 11 3 55 83 9 0 2 7 14 .267 .356 .396 752
2001 Lakeland FSL 20 Det A+ 127 482 84 133 34 5 15 80 28 5 44 96 0 6 9 9 .276 *.341 .461 *802
2002 Erie East 21 Det AA 105 400 73 112 28 3 19 72 16 2 44 86 3 1 2 5 11 .280 .352 .508 860
2003 Toledo IL 22 Det AAA 124 470 74 135 35 6 20 61 15 6 32 86 5 0 4 9 12 .287 .333 .515 848
2003 Detroit MLB 22 Det MLB 6 19 1 4 1 0 1 5 0 0 1 3 1 0 1 0 0 .211 .286 .421 707
2004 Las Vegas PCL 23 La AAA 60 238 44 65 17 2 14 49 2 0 18 43 2 0 0 1 11 .273 .328 .538 866
2005 Las Vegas PCL 24 La AAA 115 393 79 105 21 4 22 63 4 2 49 103 2 1 0 4 8 .267 .348 .509 857
2005 LA Dodgers MLB 24 La MLB 14 25 1 4 1 0 0 1 0 0 1 10 0 0 0 0 1 .160 .192 .200 392
MLB Totals: 2 years 20 44 2 8 2 0 1 6 0 0 2 13 1 0 1 0 1 .182 .234 .295 529

[M2]

Credit to Bob Castellini for being willing to swallow Womack's contract.

As for Krivsky, he's shown the kind of opportunism that was wholly lacking during the DanO regime.

[Reds Nd2]

...acquired outfielder Cody Ross from the Los Angeles Dodgers for a player to be named; designated infielder Tony Womack for assignment.

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions

[Red Leader]

I'm so impressed with the job Krivsky has done so far. Phillips to strengthen the infield defense, and now Ross for the bench.

Interesting that both of those moves come with a PTBNL. Aside from the real "talent" in the minors (Bailey, Votto, Wood, Bruce, etc), Krivsky seems to not care which minor leaguers go in trades. I'm fine with that. The minor league system was pretty barren when Krivsky took over and he's simply gutting it and starting over. I hope they have a real successful draft to replenish the minors going forward, but I'm real impressed with the moves Krivsky has made to date.

[shredda2000]

nah! nah! nah! nah!
nah! nah! nah! nah!
hey! hey! hey!

GOODBYE!!!

[Red Leader]

Credit to Bob Castellini for being willing to swallow Womack's contract.

As for Krivsky, he's shown the kind of opportunism that was wholly lacking during the DanO regime.

Amen to that. So refreshing that the new ownership and GM seem to actually be doing things correctly.

[Gallen5862]

http://sports.espn.go.com/mlb/transactions
Reds Placed pitcher Eric Milton on the 15-day disabled list, retroactive to last Wednesday, due to a left knee injury; recalled pitcher Elizardo Ramirez from Louisville of the International League (AAA); acquired outfielder Cody Ross from the Los Angeles Dodgers for a player to be named; designated infielder Tony Womack for assignment.

This is a great move getting Ross and Dfa Womack at same time.

[PickOff]

The real question is - Can Ross play 1st base?

[RedsMan3203]

Awesome......

I called for Tony to be gone by the end of the week, didn't know it was gonna happen by 1 PM on Monday. ;)

Great Move.

[RedsManRick]

MAJOR props to the Reds for biting the bullett on Womack. I really did not expect management to let him go. I'm glad Narron was willing to bench him. I'm glad Krivsky was willing to DFA him. And I'm glad Castinelli didn't let Womack's salary get in the way of the right baseball decision.

Krivsky continues to do what Bowden and O'Brien failed both were incapable of doing -- properly value replacement level talent.

[savafan]

With Womack gone and Ross on board, it makes you wonder who will be gone when Griffey comes off the DL

[osuceltic]

Any chance his role is greater than is being assumed? I ask because it sounds like he might be the Reds' best defesnive center fielder right now, and we all saw what happened with Brandon Phillips when he joined the team. Could he get an extended shot in CF while Junior is out?

[Team Clark]

The Reds are only out a Million on Tony so far and may end up trading him which in turn may only end up costing $700K or so. Great move. Phillips is playing like a guy worth 1.9 Million.

[51roscoe]

This should help.

http://www.redszone.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45086

OK, thanks.

[pedro]

Stop it. I don't know why people keep saying the Reds will cut Womack.The Reds will never eat his salary. That's just wishful thinking by a lot of posters. He's going to get 500 ab's for the Reds this year.

:mooner:

[smith288]

Who's our new whipping boy dejour to replace Womack??

[Reds Fanatic]

Very good news. Another good pickup by Krivsky. When O'Brien picked up Womack I thought we would be stuck with him all year. Instead he only lasted 3 weeks.

[Neo]

Let Ross get some starts in LF, Griffey CF, Kearns RF, Dunn 1B. Now that would be nice.

[OnBaseMachine]

Good speed, great defensive player, some pop in his bat. Another very good pickup by Wayne Krivsky. It feels so good to actually have a competent GM and ownership.

[BRM]

Who's our new whipping boy dejour to replace Womack??

Dave Williams?

[Heath]

With Womack gone and Ross on board, it makes you wonder who will be gone when Griffey comes off the DL

As much as I hate it, until Junior can be convinced that he needs to play left and the Adam Dunn's gonna be a potential HOF'er playing 1b, Ryan Freel's on borrowed time and if we can flip him for pitching, I'm afraid he's gone.

And at somepoint - Chris Denorfia's gotta be brought up to play FT.

just my .02

So, what can LaRue & Freel bring in on a trade. Or, Freel & Valentin?

[Gandalf the Red]

As someone who lives to read the witty banter you all contribute to the game threads, my only concern is that the sarcasm quotient may suffer in the wake of this development.

However, I take heart in knowing that we still have two suspect starters and the worst bullpen on the planet to make up for Mr. Womack's absence. ;)

[Heath]

Who's our new whipping boy dejour to replace Womack??

We still have Rich Aurilia.

And Scott Hatteburg.

[Reds Fanatic]

Who's our new whipping boy dejour to replace Womack??Dave Williams

[flyer85]

Nice acquisition on Ross. Ross certainly is a more useful player that Womack or QM(who should go next) for that matter.

[smith288]

At least Williams knows he sucks (based on his interviews). Womack seemed disinterested in the fact that he sucked.

[pedro]

I'm glad to have Ross for the D that he provides but I still think Denofria is a better option as an everyday player.

If the roster stays like it is, then I'd supect that Ross may take Quinten's spot when Griffey comes back.

[Patrick Bateman]

With Womack gone and Ross on board, it makes you wonder who will be gone when Griffey comes off the DL

Q

[Spitball]

Interesting that he's a Cleon Jones, bats right and throws lefthanded. You don't see that often in position players. In fact, I can't remember the Reds having one in my lifetime.

[51roscoe]

I say Dave Williams for new whipping boy.
I still can't get over the Casey deal.:(

[Danny Serafini]

Stop it. I don't know why people keep saying the Reds will cut Womack.The Reds will never eat his salary. That's just wishful thinking by a lot of posters. He's going to get 500 ab's for the Reds this year.

:mooner:

Don't know who you're talking about, I would never say such a thing. :oops:

[Reds Nd2]

Does it not bother anyone else that the Reds have been messing with the back of Tony Womacks baseball card?

[Dom Heffner]

Nm

[shredda2000]

I really like this new attitude of the Reds FO...If you do not produce, you do not belong...SEE YA!!!

[RedsManRick]

Who's our new whipping boy dejour to replace Womack??

Dave Williams... Duh!

[smith288]

Dave Williams... Duh!
Should have known

[PickOff]

The trend , if there is one, with Phillips and Ross is that they are both very good defensive players with some pop and a history of below average bb/k ratios.

Defensive ability is obviously huge for Krivsky, and he has said as much. Pena gone instead of Kearns illustrates that as well. That begs the question why resign Dunn to play in LF instead of first, however?

I guess his judgement was that Hatteburg was a good defensive aquisition or that Dunn is better suited for LF. We'll see how long that lasts.

I wonder how important OB skills are to Krivsky. Does he think the Reds can teach hitters patience, that they will mature into patience, or that it really isn't that important and we need more players that put the bat on the ball?

[CTA513]

Let Ross get some starts in LF, Griffey CF, Kearns RF, Dunn 1B. Now that would be nice.

If Dunn would be willing to go to 1B they could have Ross & Freel play LF. Freel would also get plenty of playing time because he can play all of the OF and most of the IF.

[membengal]

Re: Kriv's view on OB skills, whatever else Hatteberg is or isn't, he remains a guy works deep into counts and takes plenty of walks, with an accompanying pretty healthy OBP, so I would say that OB skills are not overlooked by Krivsky, but rather a part of the consideration.

[flyer85]

:mooner:smooch smooch

[Wheelhouse]

Chambliss deserves a lot of credit with this club...they're patient. There are some guys that don't walk that much, but I don't see any Aaron Boone type hackers on this club. I think he can bring both Phillips and Ross patience up.

[flyer85]

I really like this new attitude of the Reds FO...If you do not produce, you do not belong...SEE YA!!!I don't thinks it's about not producing as much as they just couldn't get everything fixed by the end of ST. Krivsky has set about acquiring more talent while jettisoning the flotsam.

[redsmetz]

Interesting that he's a Cleon Jones, bats right and throws lefthanded. You don't see that often.

Funny, I've got a stack of 300 Mets cards sitting next to me here waiting to sell them on eBay. Here's Cleon's card in that bunch

http://pg.photos.yahoo.com/ph/jametz/detail?.dir=655a&.dnm=7756re2.jpg&.src=ph

[flyer85]

With Womack gone and Ross on board, it makes you wonder who will be gone when Griffey comes off the DLMcCracken is next barring a trade of Freel.

[PickOff]

Re: Kriv's view on OB skills, whatever else Hatteberg is or isn't, he remains a guy works deep into counts and takes plenty of walks, with an accompanying pretty healthy OBP, so I would say that OB skills are not overlooked by Krivsky, but rather a part of the consideration.

I'm sure that he does not overlook OB skills. Hatteberg with a career .356 OBP is above average in that regard, it is just a question of the weight he gives it. And hence, how he sees players like Phillips and Ross developing.

This may also speak to how he puts together a team, whether he looks for the same types of skills from his hitters or if he looks to fill roles with different criteria.

[membengal]

Btw, a quick note on Hatte's year, since people continually run him down in passing in these and other threads, he's

got a .310 BA
got a .463 OBP
got a .476 Slugging %

Now, his counting stats are not real studly, but he's getting on base, and getting on base a lot. Whenever he is in the line-up, pitchers get worked deep into counts in his at-bats, and the players hitting behind him tend to hit with a man on. No complaints with his acquisition from me, or for the judicious way Narron has used him in the line-up.

[Heath]

Interesting that he's a Cleon Jones, bats right and throws lefthanded. You don't see that often.

Wonder if Cody uses shoe polish the way Cleon did.

[PickOff]

Btw, a quick note on Hatte's year, since people continually run him down in passing in these and other threads, he's

got a .310 BA
got a .463 OBP
got a .476 Slugging %

Now, his counting stats are not real studly, but he's getting on base, and getting on base a lot. Whenever he is in the line-up, pitchers get worked deep into counts in his at-bats, and the players hitting behind him tend to hit with a man on. No complaints with his acquisition from me, or for the judicious way Narron has used him in the line-up.

Hatteberg has done very well this year, thus far.

Last year: 464 ab .256/.334/.343
Career: .268/.356/.403

That is what Krivsky saw before he acquired him.

[Buckeye33]

Btw, a quick note on Hatte's year, since people continually run him down in passing in these and other threads, he's

got a .310 BA
got a .463 OBP
got a .476 Slugging %

Now, his counting stats are not real studly, but he's getting on base, and getting on base a lot. Whenever he is in the line-up, pitchers get worked deep into counts in his at-bats, and the players hitting behind him tend to hit with a man on. No complaints with his acquisition from me, or for the judicious way Narron has used him in the line-up.

I agree Hatte has been picked on to much this season. I think most people are just upset that Narron keeps running him out there in the 3 hole or 5 hole. If he is going to play over moving Dunn to 1st and Freel to left when Griffey gets back he needs to bat 7th or 8th.

[Red Leader]

I agree Hatte has been picked on to much this season. I think most people are just upset that Narron keeps running him out there in the 3 hole or 5 hole. If he is going to play over moving Dunn to 1st and Freel to left when Griffey gets back he needs to bat 7th or 8th.

As long as Phillips stays hot, I'd say 8th.

[flyer85]

Hatteburg has done very well this year.

Last year: 464 ab .256/.334/.343
Career: .268/.356/.403
Which means his numbers are more than likely start to slide, combined with his awful defense(he can't adjust to receive throws without almost tripping himself and his statuesque range) hopefully the PH role will be his full time job in short order.

[RedRage]

The Reds have acquired OF Cody Ross from the Dodgers for a PTBNL and designated IF Tony Womack for assignment.

per the text messages I get on my phone from the Reds
:rockband:

[RosieRed]

:)

[membengal]

Hatteburg has done very well this year, thus far.

Last year: 464 ab .256/.334/.343
Career: .268/.356/.403

That is what Krivsky saw before he acquired him.


I am well aware of what Hatte's career stats were, and that Krivsky was aware of them as well. Hatte works a count and gets on base regularly. That's who he is. Not much else, but he is that. And that has value, for me anyway, and, I presume, for Krivsky to some degree.

Yes, he's above his career norms so far this year, but, then again, Narron has been very good about getting him in the line-up in situations that favor him. This team does not suffer when he is in the line-up, even if he bats in an odd spot in the order (like, 3rd or 5th). Ducks on the pond are ducks on the pond, with or without the mango salsa...

[membengal]

And, flyer, without quoting your post, a PH role and spot starting Hatte a couple of times a week would indeed be ideal, and they are perhaps drifting that way with him. But I am also noting that the heat he has taken has been all out of proportion to the rather meaningful contributions he has made so far. That's all.

[max venable]

A couple of observations on this acquisition:

1. Now David Ross has to add a "D." to his jerseys...how much is that going to cost? :D

2. What if Cody Ross ends up being the PTBNL for Brandon Phillips?

And 3. Good-bye ladies :(
http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/baseball/tony.womack-colt-45.jpg

[RFS62]

In Wayne We Trust


:beerme:

[max venable]

In Wayne We Trust


:beerme:
Well, let's wait and see who the PTBNLs are. ;)

[PickOff]

Which means his numbers are more than likely start to slide, combined with his awful defense(he can't adjust to receive throws without almost tripping himself and his statuesque range) hopefully the PH role will be his full time job in short order.

I would expect him to come back to earth as well. He is 36 and I don't think he is on a Bondsian career trajectory.

He seems pretty dispensible to me, what with Rich being 34, utility cpable, and a better defensive 1baseman than Hatte. If we could get a prospect for Hatte, that would make room for Griffey.

Aurilia's career OPS: .766 (last year: .782 , this year: .805 )
Hatte's career OPS: .758 (last year: .677, this year: .939)

[Highlifeman21]

A couple of observations on this acquisition:

1. Now David Ross has to add a "D." to his jerseys...how much is that going to cost? :D

2. What if Cody Ross ends up being the PTBNL for Brandon Phillips?

And 3. Good-bye ladies :(
http://www.hogwild.net/images/Misc/baseball/tony.womack-colt-45.jpg



Anyone who owned a David Ross Reds jersey prior today, it just became a collectors item and increased exponentially in value!

[pedro]

I would expect him to come back to earth as well. He is 36 and I don't think he is on a Bondsian career trajectory.

He seems pretty dispensible to me, what with Rich being 34, utility cpable, and a better defensive 1baseman than Hatte. If we could get a prospect for Hatte, that would make room for Griffey.

Aurilia's career OPS: .766 (last year: .782 , this year: .805 )
Hatte's career OPS: .758 (last year: .677, this year: .939)

RA can't hit RH picthing, so if tehplan is for RA to play 1B against RH I'd have to say no thanks. or are you saying KG to 1B?

[Falls City Beer]

This roster is going to pop.

[PickOff]

I am well aware of what Hatte's career stats were, and that Krivsky was aware of them as well. Hatte works a count and gets on base regularly. That's who he is. Not much else, but he is that. And that has value, for me anyway, and, I presume, for Krivsky to some degree.

Yes, he's above his career norms so far this year, but, then again, Narron has been very good about getting him in the line-up in situations that favor him. This team does not suffer when he is in the line-up, even if he bats in an odd spot in the order (like, 3rd or 5th). Ducks on the pond are ducks on the pond, with or without the mango salsa...

I agree, he certainly hasn't hurt the Reds and he has been a pleasant suprise. If there is any value for him, in part because of his solid start, I do think he is emminently dispensable.

[Heath]

This roster is going to pop.

half of 'em are going to popping zits.

[membengal]

I agree, he certainly hasn't hurt the Reds and he has been a pleasant suprise. If there is any value for him, in part because of his solid start, I do think he is emminently dispensable.

Sure. I am just mostly noting that he has not been as horrible as people seem to think he is. Whether he spot starts, or pinch hits, or is moved for something else, Hatte has been very very serviceable to this club so far, and not a bad move at all by Krivsky in bringing him in. I would love to see him in a more regular PH role, as his ability to work a walk would be very valuable late in tight games off the bench...

[PickOff]

RA can't hit RH picthing, so if tehplan is for RA to play 1B against RH I'd have to say no thanks. or are you saying KG to 1B?

Ideally Dunn to firstbase and Griffey to left, with Freel in CF. Dunn is a future 1baseman, why wait?

That being said, I see your point in regards to the platoon situation, but it is not that much of an improvement with Hatte. Aurilia has stunk it up recently against righties, but in the last three years he is not that bad:

vs. Left 373 58 100 22 2 15 58 38 3 53 4 1 .268 .340 .458 .798
vs. Right 957 117 258 48 3 18 112 72 3 167 1 1 .270 .320 .382 .702

and not much different from Hatte against righties:

vs. Left 438 53 112 21 0 8 57 44 13 62 0 1 .256 .340 .358 .698
vs. Right 1117 149 300 62 0 26 145 145 5 93 0 1 .269 .352 .394 .746

If we can get a decent prospect, I say go for it.

[cumberlandreds]

Kudos to Krivsky. He has done 10 times more in three months than DanO did in two years. I think we have an excellent GM who will only get better.:thumbup:

[Highlifeman21]

Who would you guys like to see regularly patrol CF in the future? Griffey, Freel, Denorfia, other?

I vote Denorfia.

Clearly our offense hasn't had any trouble scoring runs without KGJ in the lineup, so I think Denorfia's vast improvement defensively in CF should be considered.

How do we convince KGJ that LF is the best way to extend his career?

[max venable]

How do we convince KGJ that LF is the best way to extend his career?
Do we really think it is? If you're Junior, do you want to be bangin' around in the corners all the time? CF seems a lot "safer" to me.

[MartyFan]

What if Kearns and Freel both get traded to the Marlins for Willis?

Denorfia in Denorfia in RF, Ross in CF and Juniro in LF...Dunn at 1b?

[Falls City Beer]

I think it's safe not to bank on Willis arriving in Cincy any time soon.

[pedro]

I don't think anyone shoudl get over excited and confuse Ross with anything other than and spare out fielder. I don;t see where he really projects as a starter.

[PickOff]

I think it's safe not to bank on Willis arriving in Cincy any time soon.


What? Oh, man, I just special ordered my Willis throwback Reds jersey, too. Rats!

[Falls City Beer]

Credit to Bob Castellini for being willing to swallow Womack's contract.

As for Krivsky, he's shown the kind of opportunism that was wholly lacking during the DanO regime.

Yep. And tinkering with the roster so much in the early going is a VERY good sign. He's not cranked out Lear yet, but he's already penned a Titus Andronicus (Arroyo).

[max venable]

I think it's safe not to bank on Willis arriving in Cincy any time soon.
Whatchewtalkin' 'bout, Willis?

[Highlifeman21]

Do we really think it is? If you're Junior, do you want to be bangin' around in the corners all the time? CF seems a lot "safer" to me.


I think he's a safer bet defensively in LF than CF, where he's at best a defensive liability (to be nice about it). I doubt he'd ever go to 1B, and Dunn's played some 1B, so it seems the only normal progression for the extension of KGJ's career, as well as the improvement of the Reds (at least defensively) would be KGJ to LF and Dunn to 1B.

Obtaining Ross isn't meant to shake up any starters, but merely to improve the quality of the bench.

[PickOff]

Whatchewtalkin' 'bout, Willis?


http://www.filmfodder.com/mt-weblog/archives/2005_gary_coleman.jpg

[Red Leader]

Whatchewtalkin' 'bout, Willis?


:beerme:

[Gallen5862]

http://cincinnati.reds.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/team/player_career.jsp?player_id=425496
Cody Ross | Current Status:

Full Name: Cody Joseph Ross
Born: 12/23/1980
Birthplace: Portales, NM
Height: 5'9" Weight: 205
Bats: Right
Throws: Left
College: N/A
MLB Debut: 07/04/2003

.500

2

9

1

Photo Gallery
G AB R H 2B 3B HR RBI TB BB SO SB CS OBP SLG AVG
2006 8 14 4 7 1 1 2 9 16 0 2 1 0 .500 1.143 .500
Career 28 58 6 15 3 1 3 15 29 2 15 1 0 .295 .500 .259



Biography:
Cody J. Ross...wife's name is Summer...graduated from Carlsbad High School in 1999, earning Baseball America's Second-Team High School All-American honors during his senior season...batted .525 (34-for-60) with 12 home runs, 45 RBI and 15 stolen bases...also threw a perfect game during his high school career...batted against Phil Mickelson in the golfer's tryout with the Toledo Mud Hens in 2003...originally signed by Tigers' scout Jim Olander.

2005 Career Highlights: By Year: yyyy 2005 2004 2003 2002 2001 2000 1999


Saw his first Major League action since 2003, appearing in 14 games and logging four hits, including a double and an RBI...went 3-for-9 against left-handed pitchers while with the Dodgers ... Made five starts in right field and appeared in nine games at that position for Los Angeles ... Spent the bulk of the season at Triple-A Las Vegas, where he batted .267 (105-for-393) with 22 homers and 63 RBI in 115 games...the 22 home runs tied for the team lead with Brian Myrow and Norihiro Nakamura ... Was recalled from Las Vegas on June 24...at the time, was batting .271 with 13 homers and 35 RBI for the 51s ... Registered his first hit in the National League in his Dodger debut on June 24 at Anaheim after being recalled earlier that day ... Batted .310 with seven home runs in June for Las Vegas ... Hit .304 in 13 games during Spring Training.

[Gallen5862]

Good a pitching background. Maybe can be a emergency position player pitching if needed in a blowout if Bull pen needs rest.

[Slider]

The interesting thing is Krivsky's apparently relentless drive to improve the club...in small steps...sometimes with bigger steps...but always relentlessly forward. That's the kind of thing we fans can feel good about. I've been around a long time...and seen the good and bad of Cincinnati Reds baseball...it just seems like the trend is finally heading in a positive direction again...and for that I am grateful...and I'm just beginning to get excited about being a Reds fan again. Thanks Mr. Castellini and of course Wayne !

:cool:

[SeeinRed]

Griffey is a defensive liability in CF? He may not be great on defense anymore, but he definately isn't a liability. He is very solid defensively, and even though he may not have the range he once had, he makes the plays he should. If you want to talk about a defensive liability, you can talk about Dunn at any position, especially at 1B. I keep hearing that Dunn is the first baseman of the future, I just don't see that at all. As I have always said, too many plays in any given game go through first base. With his defense the way it is right now, I am not at all comfortable with him at 1B. Not saying he couldn't get there one day, but lets face it, Dunn's appeal to this team isn't what he might do defensively. He is an offensively oriented player. LF is a good place for him right now.

[max venable]

Right. If Dunn was gettin' er done (no pun intended) at 1B in ST, then he'd be there now and we'd probably still have Wily Mo...and he'd be playing LF. I don't think the Dunn @ 1B thing is going to work...ever.

[traderumor]

As I think about Wayne's next chess move (gotta move the higher value pieces eventually), there seems to be some things that he undoubtedly knows more than we do about but nonetheless provide some clues for conjecture:

1) Krivsky and Narron like Denorfia, yet go get a similar player. Hedging Griffey's injury perhaps?

2) If Griffey does come back and stays back, does this position moving Freel at an optimum time to get good value?

One thing I like about this deal is that it does bring in another young extra OFer and strengthen the depth chart over having to turn to the Terrance Long's and Alex Sanchez for help when injuries happen.

[pedro]

Griffey is a defensive liability in CF? He may not be great on defense anymore, but he definately isn't a liability. He is very solid defensively, and even though he may not have the range he once had, he makes the plays he should. .

That's just not true. He does not have the range to play CF anymore. Yes, he has good instincts and is a fine gloveman when he can get to the ball, but he is a huge liabilty in CF.

[max venable]

2) If Griffey does come back and stays back, does this position moving Freel at an optimum time to get good value?


The only problem with that is that Griffey NEVER stays back. You can't count on him being healthy.

[traderumor]

Right. If Dunn was gettin' er done (no pun intended) at 1B in ST, then he'd be there now and we'd probably still have Wily Mo...and he'd be playing LF. I don't think the Dunn @ 1B thing is going to work...ever.Dunn can play first base, at an average level, now. He has done so. The current regime like the two headed combo of Hatteberg and Aurilia right now, and I can't say that it is a weakness for this team right now, but both are providing solid production from the position. Aurilia has proven to be very good at the position for so little time spent there.

[CTA513]

Right. If Dunn was gettin' er done (no pun intended) at 1B in ST, then he'd be there now and we'd probably still have Wily Mo...and he'd be playing LF. I don't think the Dunn @ 1B thing is going to work...ever.

Didnt Dunn play most of the games in the outfield during ST because they picked up Hatteberg?

[westofyou]

He is very solid defensively, and even though he may not have the range he once had, he makes the plays he should. yeah, but does he make the plays that a faster CF would make?

I could care less if he makes the plays that "he" should, from what I''ve seen it's the plays that others could make that are hurting the Reds.

[max venable]

Didnt Dunn play most of the games in the outfield because they picked up Hatteberg?
or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?

[traderumor]

The only problem with that is that Griffey NEVER stays back. You can't count on him being healthy.
But then you still have Ross and Denorfia around. I really wanted to go out on a limb and say Freel could be moved now, regardless of Griffey's status, but that suddenly would leave us a little light at 2b, believe it or not.

[pedro]

or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?


I think Dunn played enough 1B over the last few years that it's apparent that he can play there if he has too. He's not that bad at 1B.

[max venable]

But then you still have Ross and Denorfia around. I really wanted to go out on a limb and say Freel could be moved now, regardless of Griffey's status, but that suddenly would leave us a little light at 2b, believe it or not. :lol: Where's Tony Womack when you need him?

[membengal]

I find myself musing about what a Kearns/Freel package could fetch in terms of a starting pitcher. I love Kearns and Freel, but they would appear to be the pieces that could easiest be moved for a quality arm at this point.

[CTA513]

or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?

He sucked at 1B? He played 9 games at 1B in ST with no errors (according to the ST stats). Hatteberg, Abad & Votto played there the rest of the time.

[MartyFan]

I think Dunn played enough 1B over the last few years that it's apparent that he can play there if he has too. He's not that bad at 1B.

I agree...Dunn can do a respectable job at 1B if needed...and if he plays ther emore often he is only going to get better.

HE'S HUGE! What a target for EE, FeLo and bPhi...Big bats, sweet speed...whew...scary.

[flyer85]

Griffey is a defensive liability in CF?because he is so slow the answer is yes. Does he still get good jumps and can he still track flyballs? Yes, he can but the fact is he is slowest CF in the majors and his other skills can't make up for that.

[flyer85]

I don't think the Dunn @ 1B thing is going to work...ever.Then why has he played over 100 games in his major league career with around average defense in his career before the 2006 season?

[westofyou]

or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?
No they picked up Hatteberg because they like his bat on ball game, the same with RA, IMO the Reds are trying to trim some K's off the lineup here and there and for less than 2 million they are doing that now.

Reds 1st Baseman

.338/.460/.592/1.051

[Gandalf the Red]

Yep. And tinkering with the roster so much in the early going is a VERY good sign. He's not cranked out Lear yet, but he's already penned a Titus Andronicus (Arroyo).

In comparison with our previous GM, whose Shakespearean effort was entitled The Tragedy of O'Brien, Prince of Stupid Contracts?

[max venable]

He sucked at 1B? He played 9 games at 1B in ST with no errors (according to the ST stats). Hatteberg, Abad & Votto played there the rest of the time.
I never said he sucked...I was just asking a question. But if he was gettin' it done...why is he not at 1B right now? Why go get a marginal player like Hatteberg to play 1B? I think it's just like the kEARnS experiment at 3B...it just wasn't working.

[flyer85]

or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?They signed Hatteberg before ST and after having seen both of them play the position I can tell you right now that Dunn is a superior 1B to Hatteberg. There was a reason the Reds wanted to move Dunn back to LF, I just don't believe we have heard the real reason at this point. I am not buying that it was because he couldn't play 1B. He has played a lot of games there in his career and has always played decently there. I

[max venable]

The interesting thing is Krivsky's apparently relentless drive to improve the club...in small steps...sometimes with bigger steps...but always relentlessly forward. That's the kind of thing we fans can feel good about. I've been around a long time...and seen the good and bad of Cincinnati Reds baseball...it just seems like the trend is finally heading in a positive direction again...and for that I am grateful...and I'm just beginning to get excited about being a Reds fan again. Thanks Mr. Castellini and of course Wayne !

:cool:
I still haven't heard an explanation of why Kriv didn't make an attempt to sign Carlos Pena. To me, that one was a no-brainer.

[westofyou]

I still haven't heard an explanation of why Kriv didn't make an attempt to sign Carlos Pena. To me, that one was a no-brainer.
Striiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee

[flyer85]

I never said he sucked...I was just asking a question. But if he was gettin' it done...why is he not at 1B right now?We don't know the real answer to that question but his not being able to handle the position is a red herring.

[max venable]

Striiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiike Threeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee
Yeah...that Cashman dude in NY...what does he know? :rolleyes:

[westofyou]

Yeah...that Cashman dude in NY...what does he know? :rolleyes:
Oh please, the answer is right there, the Reds are trying to cut down on team K's.

Now you can debate that modus, but it's pretty simple and rolling your eyes just makes it seem like the Reds are the only team that didn't pursue him.... oh and I guess the current OPS of the first sackers isn't good enough .

[pedro]

I think they moved Dunn back to the OF b/c they don't believe KG will stay healthy and they are open to trading AK and they felt RA and SH could adequately handle 1B this year.

[flyer85]

I think they moved Dunn back to the OF b/c they don't believe KG will stay healthy and they are open to trading AK and they felt RA and SH could adequately handle 1B this year.Now that is a plausible explanantion but the Reds have never given a plausible one to tehe question.

[PickOff]

or...did they pick up Hatteberg because Dunn was sucking so bad at 1B?

2002 44 games: RFg 8.68 League RFg 7.97 RF9 9.77 League RF9 9.39
2003 19 games: 4.68 7.98 9.46 9.60
2004 10 games: 8.00 8.23 12.27 9.51
2005 33 games: 7.73 8.29 9.13 9.64

Clearly there is room for improvement here, but I doubt spring training had much to do with it. His fielding percentages were all below average as well averaging: .987 when the league average was .993

His LF rfs are slightly above average but his fielding percentage is .970 vs a league average of .980.

I know all this stats aren't the best measure, but I would guess that Krivsky determined that Dunn was less bad in leftfield, and he went out and got Hatte. The issue I have is that we have below average defensive first basemen now in Hatte and Aurilia, so why not put Dunn there and see if he can improve. By doing so you will improve the left field defense with any of our options there and overall improve the defense. Once again getting a hard look at Dunn at 1st while Freel and Phillips both get time.

This may be moot if a trade of Freel occurs, but until then...

[max venable]

Now you can debate that modus, but it's pretty simple and rolling your eyes just makes it seem like the Reds are the only team that didn't pursue him.... oh and I guess the current OPS of the first sackers isn't good enough .
No other teams needed the help at 1B like the Reds did. We had, what, Hatteberg? :thumbup:

Yes, the 1B combo seems to be working...for now.

Am I the only person on this board that thinks we should have made an attempt to sign Pena?

[CTA513]

I never said he sucked...I was just asking a question. But if he was gettin' it done...why is he not at 1B right now? Why go get a marginal player like Hatteberg to play 1B? I think it's just like the kEARnS experiment at 3B...it just wasn't working.

He was supposed to be playing 1B this year so Pena could play everyday in LF. Once Pena was traded Dunn went back to LF.

As for why hes not playing at 1B, I dont know Im not the GM or Manager. :p:

[traderumor]

Now that is a plausible explanantion but the Reds have never given a plausible one to tehe question.
It's all a part of the grand scheme, which if they told us, they'd haveta kill us.

[osuceltic]

I may be alone, but I'm not convinced Ross is just fourth/fifth OF material. If there is one thing I think I know about Krivsky, it's his belief in defense. He has to see that the defense up the middle was atrocious on this team. He's shopping LaRue, he added Phillips, and now he gets a good gloveman (and respectable bat) for CF. Maybe I'm making more of it than is there, but I think he's systematically going about improving the defense on this team -- and it's long overdue.

You can afford one or two sub-par defenders in the lineup, but you can't survive with sub-par defenders at seven of the eight positions (which is where the Reds were). I think he's trying to fix that.

Does that mean Junior switches positions? I don't know. Does it mean more trades are coming? I feel certain. But I'm not so sure this one isn't a little more significant than we might think.

[IslandRed]

It's pretty simple to me -- if the long-term plan was for Dunn to play first base, the opportunity was right there. Since he's not, I can only conclude Krivsky prefers him in LF. Either that, or he doesn't have a strong opinion so he's letting Narron make the call. As I said before, the primary reason for moving Dunn to first is to free up playing time or a position for the benefit of one or more guys that, when all is said and done, may not be on this team by the trading deadline. The roster makeover isn't done yet.

[max venable]

He was supposed to be playing 1B this year so Pena could play everyday in LF. Once Pena was traded Dunn went back to LF.

As for why hes not playing at 1B, I dont know Im not the GM or Manager. :p:
I think we're getting it backwards...I think one of the reasons Pena got traded was because the Reds already knew Dunn was going back to LF, creating another logjam in the OF again.

[traderumor]

No other teams needed the help at 1B like the Reds did. We had, what, Hatteberg? :thumbup:

Yes, the 1B combo seems to be working...for now.

Am I the only person on this board that thinks we should have made an attempt to sign Pena?There's an entire thread of supporters. Sometimes the people making decisions don't do exactly what multitudes think they should. Sometimes the decision makers have good reasons or bad reasons for going a different direction, but it isn't like Mark Prior was on waivers and we had a chance to get him and didn't.

[Matt700wlw]

Wayne Krivsky is not afraid to make moves...and I absolutely love this!! He's done more in 3 weeks (longer if you include spring) than Dan O'Brien did in 3 years. And these moves did were not steps BACKWARDS...they are steps forward.

[cincyinco]

No other teams needed the help at 1B like the Reds did. We had, what, Hatteberg? :thumbup:

Yes, the 1B combo seems to be working...for now.

Am I the only person on this board that thinks we should have made an attempt to sign Pena?

I'm willing to bet Krivs knows Pena well from his days in Minn... And Pena isn't exactly "tearing it up" at AAA for the Yanks. Pena's best days may very well be behind him.

[Red Leader]

I think we're getting it backwards...I think one of the reasons Pena got traded was because the Reds already knew Dunn was going back to LF, creating another logjam in the OF again.

Well, I don't. I think they moved Dunn to 1B to give Wily Mo an everyday job to showcase him until they could move him. They signed Hatte as insurance should they be able to move Wily Mo. They got what they wanted out of Wily Mo early, so they moved Dunn back to LF and put Hatte at 1B.

I think they tried to do the same with Womack. They gave him starts at the beginning of the year until it was apparent they wouldn't get anything in return for him, so they picked up a replacement for him and DFA'd Womack.

[M2]

I'll make the same point on Ross that I made when there was Corey Patterson speculation on the board: The Reds could stand to have an OF glove off the bench. If that player can also pinch run, get the occasional hit and flash some power, all the better.

In general it makes sense to carry as many OFs as you fit into your 25-man roster because that's where your best bats invariably play. IMO the modern day sin, given how bloated bullpens have become, is carrying three catchers. That's just taking a roster spot from a tactically more important player on an already short bench.

[Red Leader]

I'm willing to bet Krivs knows Pena well from his days in Minn... And Pena isn't exactly "tearing it up" at AAA for the Yanks. Pena's best days may very well be behind him.

I believe woy's theory on decreasing team K's is correct. You couple that with bad defense, poor pitching, and a surplus of power on the team already, and dealing WMP for a SP was a no-brainer.

[pedro]

I think the Reds are only carrying 3 cathers until one can be traded.

[Red Leader]

I'll make the same point on Ross that I made when there was Corey Patterson speculation on the board: The Reds could stand to have an OF glove off the bench. If that player can also pinch run, get the occasional hit and flash some power, all the better.

In general it makes sense to carry as many OFs as you fit into your 25-man roster because that's where your best bats invariably play. IMO the modern day sin, given how bloated bullpens have become, is carrying three catchers. That's just taking a roster spot from a tactically more important player on an already short bench.

I agree. I think that 3 catcher situation has to be resolved within the next month, and I believe it will.

[CrackerJack]

Pitching please!

(obviously no problem with this move) No-brainer.

[Caveman Techie]

Nice moves by Krivsky on this one. I like it, but does anyone know what the contract status on Ross is?

[flyer85]

I agree. I think that 3 catcher situation has to be resolved within the next month, and I believe it will.long term it certainly doesn't make sense. I think Ross will be a guy that stays.

[Danny Serafini]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't want Dunn at 1B. I've never seen anything out of him to indicate he's anything other than just flat bad as a 1B. He'll never win a Gold Glove in the outfield, but he's at least passable as an OF and he's comfortable there, so why not leave him? If you want to fill a hole at 1B, wouldn't it be better to just get an actual first baseman?

[max venable]

IMO the modern day sin, given how bloated bullpens have become, is carrying three catchers. That's just taking a roster spot from a tactically more important player on an already short bench.
LaRue's gonna get traded...for sure.

[Reds1]

Who's Womack. Everyone's saying good-bye! Did this guy even play for the Reds :)

[max venable]

If you want to fill a hole at 1B, wouldn't it be better to just get an actual first baseman?
Yeah...like Carlos Pena. :thumbup:

[Red Leader]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't want Dunn at 1B. I've never seen anything out of him to indicate he's anything other than just flat bad as a 1B. He'll never win a Gold Glove in the outfield, but he's at least passable as an OF and he's comfortable there, so why not leave him? If you want to fill a hole at 1B, wouldn't it be better to just get an actual first baseman?

Well, woy has put up a table of guys over 6'5" (I believe) that played OF (or any position other than SP and 1B). Not many guys had productive careers into their mid-30's. Because of his body type, his career is going to be longer if he moves to 1B. As someone that is a big part of our offense (and the other one being injury prone already) and signed long term, it's kind of important that we don't get this guy injured early in his career. So, long term, if Adam wants to play ball beyond his current contract, he's going to HAVE to move to 1B.

[KronoRed]

I'm so happy I could cry.

[Sabo Fan]

I agree. I think that 3 catcher situation has to be resolved within the next month, and I believe it will.

I'll echo the sentiments of M2, Pedro and Red Leader that the catching situation cannot remain as-is. I don't think there is any way that either LaRue or Valentin aren't moved in the next month, perhaps sooner if one of them gets hot. Personally I think LaRue is the one that will go. He's done a lot of good things here but I'm concerned he's headed for a breakdown and you can get much more for him than you can Valentin. I'll have to look around and see who can be targeted, but my guess is that Krivsky looks to deal LaRue and a prospect not named Bruce, Bailey, or Wood to get another starter. I wonder what kind of return LaRue and Denorfia would get?

On a related note, I would think that the Womack DFA would put all DanO acquisitions on notice. Dave Williams likely sees the writing on the wall and I have to think that our bullpen's elder statesmen might be thinking about having their suitcases packed should their performance not improve noticably in the next few weeks.

[KronoRed]

I agree. I think that 3 catcher situation has to be resolved within the next month, and I believe it will.
I don't, I think Narron loves the idea of an emergency catcher, he sees catcher as the most important spot on the field.

[M2]

I agree. I think that 3 catcher situation has to be resolved within the next month, and I believe it will.

I assume it's only in existence at the moment because Jr. went down when LaRue was coming back. Otherwise I'm relatively sure Dave Ross would be down in AAA.

[flyer85]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I don't want Dunn at 1B. I've never seen anything out of him to indicate he's anything other than just flat bad as a 1B. I've seen him many teams in person at both OF and 1B and I like him at iB. To start with he has the hands of an infielder(he grew up pitching and playing 3b, he never had played OF until the Reds put him there). He is smooth and athletic as a 1B(moves well on his feet) and is a huge target(a bid advantage in a 1B), he also digs throws pretty well. His defensive stats over the course of his games there indicate a league average 1b(not true as on OF). He certainly is superior to the dancing bear that Hatreberg is over there. The man trips over himself whenever he has to adjust to a throw.

[Red Leader]

Yeah...like Carlos Pena. :thumbup:


Carlos Pena:

AB K
2003 452 123
2004 481 145
2005 260 95

[flyer85]

I assume it's only in existence at the moment because Jr. went down when LaRue was coming back. Otherwise I'm relatively sure Dave Ross would be down in AAA.Ross is out of options and would likely be claimed.

[PickOff]

It was just a few days ago that Krivsky said Womack was "a valuable guy." Let's see what, if anything, he can get for that "value".

[WMR]

I don't, I think Narron loves the idea of an emergency catcher, he sees catcher as the most important spot on the field.

Narron's not dictating this line-up composition (thankfully).

[pedro]

I assume it's only in existence at the moment because Jr. went down when LaRue was coming back. Otherwise I'm relatively sure Dave Ross would be down in AAA.

There has been a lot of specualtion that Ross wouldn't make it through waivers and as he is better than anything the Reds have in the minors I can understand keeping him around in the short term.

[flyer85]

Well, woy has put up a table of guys over 6'5" (I believe) that played OF (or any position other than SP and 1B). Not many guys had productive careers into their mid-30's. Because of his body type, his career is going to be longer if he moves to 1B. He is either going to be a 1B or a DH, it is only a matter of a little time.

[KronoRed]

Narron's not dictating this line-up composition (thankfully).
We shall see, the Twins loved 3 catchers as well. ;)

[M2]

Ross is out of options and would likely be claimed.

I'm sure the Reds would be willing to risk that. He's a 29-year-old journeyman catcher.

[max venable]

So, long term, if Adam wants to play ball beyond his current contract, he's going to HAVE to move to 1B.Or move to the AL to be a DH...which is actually what he should be doing.

[Red Leader]

I also agree that I think Ross will stay on the roster for the rest of the year. I think either LaRue or Valentin gets moved. I could see LaRue going to LA if Sandy Alomar gets injured (which isn't a big IF). I could see Valentin going to WAS as a backup.

[PickOff]

I'm sure the Reds would be willing to risk that. He's a 29-year-old journeyman catcher.

Unless a trade is forthcoming.

[flyer85]

It was just a few days ago that Krivsky said Womack was "a valuable guy." Let's see what, if anything, he can get for that "value".What I have seen so far suggest thaty Wayne tells Jerry what the company line is and Jerry is a good soldier and toes the line. If you look at all the Womack comments ny Jerry from the beginning there is not a single one that would leave you to believe he wasn't going to play much less be DFAed.

[WMR]

As others have said, it seems clear that LaRue should be traded. Our offense can easily handle what we'll lose from a Valentin/Ross tandem as opposed to a LaRue/Valentin/Ross three-way; not to mention the difficulty of keeping 3 catchers 'sharp.'

[pedro]

Or move to the AL to be a DH...which is actually what he should be doing.


he's not that bad at 1B.

[Red Leader]

he's not that bad at 1B.

I agree.

[redsmetz]

It was just a few days ago that Krivsky said Womack was "a valuable guy." Let's see what, if anything, he can get for that "value".

I think that was Wayne being a salesman, "Oh yeah, this baby's a creampuff. Only driven by a little old lady to church on Sunday. Very valuable, yes sir." We'll see.

[flyer85]

Or move to the AL to be a DH...which is actually what he should be doing.He can play 1b and play it well if he chose to do so because he is an excellent athlete with good hands. The guys in the end who can't play first are the ones who are just poor athletes and didn't grow up playing the position.

[flyer85]

I'm sure the Reds would be willing to risk that. He's a 29-year-old journeyman catcher.Then why claim him in the first place? He was claimed before Larue got injured.

[Red Leader]

He can play 1b and play it well if he chose to do so because he is an excellent athlete with good hands. The guys in the end who can't play first are the ones who are just poor athletes and didn't grow up playing the position.

I always felt that way as well, until I saw Mike Piazza put on a first baseman's mitt. :laugh: :laugh:

Mike has decent hands behind the plate and I thought, was a pretty good athlete (most catchers are) but he just hasn't a clue how to play that position.

Adam Dunn, I believe, is more of an athlete than Mike Piazza is, though, and I believe Adam could be at least a league average first baseman, if he started there everyday.

[WMR]

It'll be interesting to see how the Reds backtrack on their 'he can't handle the position' bullcrap when the inevitable does finally occur.

(hopefully it'll be WITH the Reds, and not somewhere else)

[M2]

Unless a trade is forthcoming.

True and right now, because of Jr.'s injury, the Reds have the luxury of shopping LaRue and Valentin whille keeping Ross on the roster.

Ross doesn't become much of an issue until the team gets all hands on deck. Once that happens, then Krivsky will have to decide which Ross (or pick another bench player) he wants to imperil.

IMO, Dave Ross slides through waivers if push comes to shove. He's hardly in high demand. If Krivsky can't find the right trading partner for one of the two guys in front of Ross on the depth chart before that roster spot becomes an issue then I'm guessing he's willing to take his chances with Ross and a DFA.

[PickOff]

It'll be interesting to see how the Reds backtrack on their 'he can't handle the position' bullcrap when the inevitable does finally occur.

(hopefully it'll be WITH the Reds, and not somewhere else)

Did they say he 'can't handle the position'? Or did they just say the putting Dunn in LF and Hatte at first makes them better defensively?

[westofyou]

Did they say he 'can't handle the position'? Or did they just say the putting Dunn in LF and Hatte at first makes them better defensively?
Yep, plus they said they wanted him thinking about hitting more than 1st base at this juncture.

[Red Leader]

True and right now, because of Jr.'s injury, the Reds have the luxury of shopping LaRue and Valentin whille keeping Ross on the roster.

Ross doesn't become much of an issue until the team gets all hands on deck. Once that happens, then Krivsky will have to decide which Ross (or pick another bench player) he wants to imperil.

IMO, Dave Ross slides through waivers if push comes to shove. He's hardly in high demand. If Krivsky can't find the right trading partner for one of the two guys in front of Ross on the depth chart before that roster spot becomes an issue then I'm guessing he's willing to take his chances with Ross and a DFA.

Guillermo Quiroz, once a highly thought of Blue Jays catching prospect just slid through waivers for the Mariners (I believe). If he went unclaimed, I'd have to believe Ross would be unclaimed, although JimBo's always out there, willing to eat up all the Red's scraps, but I still think LaRue or Valentin will go before Ross does.

[WMR]

Did they say he 'can't handle the position'? Or did they just say the putting Dunn in LF and Hatte at first makes them better defensively?

Yeah, JN said something like, 'it was rough seeing Dunner over there.'

What I've observed the past 4 years directly contradicts that. Especially after having watched "The Picking Machine" these past few weeks.

Hatteberg > Dunn Defensively at first???? Puhlease. No way.

[flyer85]

I always felt that way as well, until I saw Mike Piazza put on a first baseman's mitt. :laugh: :laugh:

Mike has decent hands behind the plate and I thought, was a pretty good athlete (most catchers are) but he just hasn't a clue how to play that position.

Adam Dunn, I believe, is more of an athlete than Mike Piazza is, though, and I believe Adam could be at least a league average first baseman, if he started there everyday.Actually they aren't, especially into the career(Piazza never was, he was one of the slowest runners in league from the beginning).

Piazza was slow and struggled with the good footwork necessary to play 1B. Watch Hatteberg, he still struggles with the footwork at 1b.

[M2]

Then why claim him in the first place? He was claimed before Larue got injured.

Why not? Seriously, it's not like it's hurt the team. Krivsky wanted some depth and I'm sure he'd move a catcher in an agreeable trade. Ross gives him some insurance in that case.

Plus, it's not all that odd for a catcher to get injured. The #3 catcher on your depth chart can expect a decent bit of work every season even if he has to spend time in AAA.

Right now Krivsky doesn't have to make a decision. If nothing changes before he has to then I sincerely doubt he thinks Dave Ross is essential.

[Chip R]

Guillermo Quiroz, once a highly thought of Blue Jays catching prospect just slid through waivers for the Mariners (I believe). If he went unclaimed, I'd have to believe Ross would be unclaimed, although JimBo's always out there, willing to eat up all the Red's scraps, but I still think LaRue or Valentin will go before Ross does.

So you're saying we'll see Womack in D.C. this week? ;)

[PickOff]

Actually they aren't, especially into the career(Piazza never was, he was one of the slowest runners in league from the beginning).

Piazza was slow and struggled with the good footwork necessary to play 1B. Watch Hatteberg, he still struggles with the footwork at 1b.


I was just going to say that Piazza's athleticism doesn't extend below his waist. :)

[flyer85]

It'll be interesting to see how the Reds backtrack on their 'he can't handle the position' they never officially said that. I remember it as an unattributed type comment from reporters. I looked back and Lancaster simply quoted Narron saying


Adam Dunn is a better left fielder than Wily Mo would be, and Hatteberg will be a better first baseman than Adam Dunn would be

That was Jerry giving the company line once again.

[rdiersin]

Why not? Seriously, it's not like it's hurt the team. Krivsky wanted some depth and I'm sure he'd move a catcher in an agreeable trade. Ross gives him some insurance in that case.

Plus, it's not all that odd for a catcher to get injured. The #3 catcher on your depth chart can expect a decent bit of work every season even if he has to spend time in AAA.

Right now Krivsky doesn't have to make a decision. If nothing changes before he has to then I sincerely doubt he thinks Dave Ross is essential.

Krivsky traded for Ross (Basham) even though the rumors were that he was going to be DFA'd, which leads one to believe he felt Ross would have been claimed. So what has changed? Would he risk it now, even though a couple of weeks ago he wasn't willing to risk waiting for him?

[KronoRed]

Did they say he 'can't handle the position'? Or did they just say the putting Dunn in LF and Hatte at first makes them better defensively?
It doesn't, I'm not sure why they said that..but it didn't make any sense then or now.

[M2]

Guillermo Quiroz, once a highly thought of Blue Jays catching prospect just slid through waivers for the Mariners (I believe). If he went unclaimed, I'd have to believe Ross would be unclaimed, although JimBo's always out there, willing to eat up all the Red's scraps, but I still think LaRue or Valentin will go before Ross does.

No doubt Krivsky's keeping his trade options open at the moment. That's smart business.

Good point on Quiroz (and may I say out loud that there's no such thing as a sure-fire Blue Jays prospect). I doubt Krivsky would be too afraid to put Ross on waivers or overly heartbroken if Ross failed to clear waivers. He just doesn't have to make that decision yet.

[smith288]

I dont recall a time when Dunn embarrased himself over at first. He might not feel "comfortable" at first but I dont feel comfortable doing rate engine stuff in SQL development but here I am...

[Red Leader]

I was just going to say that Piazza's athleticism doesn't extend below his waist. :)


:laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh: :laugh:

[pedro]

I was just going to say that Piazza's athleticism doesn't extend below his waist. :)
I don't want to know anything about that.:runaway:

[KronoRed]

I dont recall a time when Dunn embarrased himself over at first. He might not feel "comfortable" at first but I dont feel comfortable doing rate engine stuff in SQL development but here I am...
Well you're a team player smith.

[flyer85]

When Jr comes back my guess is that the 3rd catcher stays and QM will be the one to go.

[WMR]

I was just going to say that Piazza's athleticism doesn't extend below his waist. :)

Some former Playboy models would "allegedly" disagree with that statement.

[PickOff]

It doesn't, I'm not sure why they said that..but it didn't make any sense then or now.


That's why it seems like a Red Herring. But why bother? It will be interesting to see what the rest of Krivsky's moves entail this season. At least there is positive movement on the trade front, and I'm sure Major League ready pitching is on the way, stay tuned folks...

[PickOff]

Some former Playboy models would "allegedly" disagree with that statement.

So would some Playgirl models. ;)

[M2]

Krivsky traded for Ross (Basham) even though the rumors were that he was going to be DFA'd, which leads one to believe he felt Ross would have been claimed. So what has changed? Would he risk it now, even though a couple of weeks ago he wasn't willing to risk waiting for him?

Krivsky was able to give up a pitcher he didn't want for a catcher for whom he might have some use. Why not make the deal? It opens up some options for the club.

To my mind, nothing's changed. Krivsky could get Ross for essentially nothing. He'll probably hold onto Ross for as long as is practical and if it becomes impractical then he'll see if anyone feel's like claiming a 29-year-old journeyman catcher.

[Red Leader]

It will be interesting to see what the rest of Krivsky's moves entail this season. At least there is positive movement on the trade front, and I'm sure Major League ready pitching is on the way, stay tuned folks...


If Wayne Krivsky can turn this ship around before next season, he should be enshrined. Yes, enshrined for doing his job, when so many others in the recent past couldn't even do that. He is well on his way to doing so. Granted, there are still a lot of things to be done, but Wayne's timetable is a lot quicker than I anticipated.

[M2]

When Jr comes back my guess is that the 3rd catcher stays and QM will be the one to go.

That's possible. McCracken's hardly a guy you hold onto at all costs. Though I'd argue that if he's able to deliver anything at the plate, he becomes immensely more valuable than a third catcher.

[PickOff]

If Wayne Krivsky can turn this ship around before next season, he should be enshrined. Yes, enshrined for doing his job, when so many others in the recent past couldn't even do that. He is well on his way to doing so. Granted, there are still a lot of things to be done, but Wayne's timetable is a lot quicker than I anticipated.

I think it boils down to Bob's mandate to win now. Bob wants to see revenue via butts in the seat and he knows the way to do that is to bring a winning product to the field. He will then have the revenue to let Krivsky be more active in free agency and hopefully contend regularly.

[redsfanmia]

Hopefully there is a deal out there so the Reds can keep Ross and dump LaRue and his overpriced contract. Ross and Valentin isnt much of a drop-off production wise over LaRue and Valentin and I think that Ross if much better defensively than LaRue. Its a win situation if they can deal LaRue for any kind of an arm.

[pedro]

Hopefully there is a deal out there so the Reds can keep Ross and dump LaRue and his overpriced contract. Ross and Valentin isnt much of a drop-off production wise over LaRue and Valentin and I think that Ross if much better defensively than LaRue. Its a win situation if they can deal LaRue for any kind of an arm.

I'm all for trading Larue if the deal is right but he is by far the best all around player of those three.

[flyer85]

That's possible. McCracken's hardly a guy you hold onto at all costs. Though I'd argue that if he's able to deliver anything at the plate, he becomes immensely more valuable than a third catcher.looking at his career he is a slap hitter with little power who doesn't walk much.

Career .337 OBP and .375 SLG, that ugly for an OF.

[osuceltic]

Hopefully there is a deal out there so the Reds can keep Ross and dump LaRue and his overpriced contract. Ross and Valentin isnt much of a drop-off production wise over LaRue and Valentin and I think that Ross if much better defensively than LaRue. Its a win situation if they can deal LaRue for any kind of an arm.
I completely agree with this.

On Dunn ... He's not a good or even average outfielder or first baseman. He's a good hitter. But how would he be valued by other teams as a first baseman? Is the value for that position higher than it is for a left fielder? My guess is he has more value as a left fielder because teams will see him as having potential as a two-position player. If he settles in at first base, you might be limiting your trade partners to teams needing a first baseman or a DH.

I think they'll try to rebuild the defense and pitching staff around Dunn and tolerate his bad defense as long as they can. If it becomes obvious they can't get where they want to go without dealing Dunn, then they'll do it.

[smith288]

I completely agree with this.
But how would he be valued by other teams as a first baseman? Is the value for that position higher than it is for a left fielder? My guess is he has more value as a left fielder because teams will see him as having potential as a two-position player. If he settles in at first base, you might be limiting your trade partners to teams needing a first baseman or a DH.


I disagree, he has already established the ability to play two positions on a major league level so moving him permanently isn't going to hurt that fact in my opinion

[flyer85]

I completely agree with this.

On Dunn ... He's not a good or even average outfielder or first baseman. He's a good hitter. But how would he be valued by other teams as a first baseman? Is the value for that position higher than it is for a left fielder? My guess is he has more value as a left fielder because teams will see him as having potential as a two-position player. If he settles in at first base, you might be limiting your trade partners to teams needing a first baseman or a DH.

I think they'll try to rebuild the defense and pitching staff around Dunn and tolerate his bad defense as long as they can. If it becomes obvious they can't get where they want to go without dealing Dunn, then they'll do it.I don't think you make decisions where to play someone on how it would effect perceived trade value.

[reds44]

Krivsky is the man!!!

[M2]

looking at his career he is a slap hitter with little power who doesn't walk much.

Career .337 OBP and .375 SLG, that ugly for an OF.

Yet brilliant for a 3rd catcher.

I'm not saying McCracken's anything special, I'm just noting that if McCracken can give you offense around his career norms with some speed and defense then he's worth more than a 3rd catcher. By definition you aren't going to find too many gifted hitters on the bench, but if McCracken can be a PH/PR/spot starter/defensive replacement then that trumps a guy whose job it is to sit around in case you PH for your two other catchers (who can already hit) with the other three players left on your bench.

[PickOff]

Yet brilliant for a 3rd catcher.

I'm not saying McCracken's anything special, I'm just noting that if McCracken can give you offense around his career norms with some speed and defense then he's worth more than a 3rd catcher. By definition you aren't going to find too many gifted hitters on the bench, but if McCracken can be a PH/PR/spot starter/defensive replacement then that trumps a guy whose job it is to sit around in case you PH for your two other catchers (who can already hit) with the other three players left on your bench.

But who's going to catch Arroyo? :D

[BuckU]

Great, now who is the 4th string 2b backup?

[KronoRed]

Great, now who is the 4th string 2b backup?
We're just gonna have to suck it up and make do.

[reds44]

With Womack gone and Ross on board, it makes you wonder who will be gone when Griffey comes off the DL
McCracken

[flyer85]

I'm not saying McCracken's anything special, I'm just noting that if McCracken can give you offense around his career norms with some speed and defense then he's worth more than a 3rd catcher. His OPS was .610 last year in 200 ABs with the Snakes. They saw the light and let him walk, hopefully the Reds are smart enough to do the same.

[NC Reds]

I would rather call up Denorfia than have Ross on the roster. At least Womack is gone.

[M2]

His OPS was .610 last year in 200 ABs with the Snakes. They saw the light and let him walk, hopefully the Reds are smart enough to do the same.

Obviously you don't keep that around. Though it shouldn't be too hard to find an OF superior to Dave Ross and his .217/.288/.406 line in 424 ABs.

[traderumor]

I would rather call up Denorfia than have Ross on the roster. At least Womack is gone.
I would rather have Ross and Denorfia in the system than Womack.

[Red Leader]

I would rather call up Denorfia than have Ross on the roster. At least Womack is gone.

Yeah, in a perfect world, I think letting McCracken go when Griffey comes back is the right move, and trading LaRue for another SP and keeping Ross and Valentin is a good move, and then bringing up another position player and releasing a pitcher that wasn't doing their job to make room for that position player.

So in all:
Griffey takes McCracken's spot.
New SP in LaRue trade takes sucky pitchers spot (whichever one you want).
Denorfia or other AAA player takes LaRue's spot and strengthens the bench.

[pedro]

I would rather call up Denorfia than have Ross on the roster. At least Womack is gone.

I think Denofria is probably the better player but that's probably why he's playing everyday in Louisville right now. I think the addition of Ross is just as a transitional OF cog while the Reds figure out what they are going to do long term. Denofria IMO is the guy they are grooming to replace Kearns when they flip him for pitching.

[flyer85]

Though it shouldn't be too hard to find an OF superior to Dave Ross and his .217/.288/.406 line in 424 ABs.Denorfia is thy name.

[traderumor]

WASHINGTON -- Cody Ross and his luggage rolled into the clubhouse about a half-hour ago. Naturally, we ambushed him to get his thoughts, and he seemed like an exceedingly nice guy. Definitely happy to be here. Said he'd been at home in Carlsbad, N.M. for a week working out with his high school team.

I asked him for a self-scouting report, and this is what he came up with, after some hemming and hawing:

"I play with my heart. I don't have a whole lot of tools. ... I guess I'm just what you'd call a baseball player."

I imagine he'll fit in fine.Marc's blog.

[flyer85]

Cody Ross is ... what's the word, SCRAPPY. :eek:

[M2]

"I play with my heart."

I keep mine in its original packaging.

[Blimpie]

I'm so happy I could cry.You are the first person I thought about when I read this thread....:thumbup:

[Puffy]

I used to play with my heart. Then I got hungry and ate it with some fava beans and a nice Chianti

[smith288]

I used to play with my heart. Then I got hungry and ate it with some fava beans and a nice Chianti
http://www.erie.gov/sheriff/graphics/hannibal06.jpg

[redsmetz]

"I play with my heart. I don't have a whole lot of tools. ... I guess I'm just what you'd call a baseball player."

Isn't that a direct quote from Roy Hobbs in The Natural???? He best avoid women in black dresses then. ;)

[GridironGrace]

YESSSSSSSS

This is awesome :) Been at work all weekend and come back to find out that Phillips more than likely has a home.

Unless he stays hot long enough to deal for a good pitcher

[Reds Nd2]

If Krivsky can't work a trade for Womack, will Womack accept an assignment to Louiville or elect free agency?

[KronoRed]

If Krivsky can't work a trade for Womack, will Womack accept an assignment to Louiville or elect free agency?
I'd think he goes FA.

[GridironGrace]

Yea thats easy........ FA.

Hopefully we can send him somewhere for SOMTHING but i doubt it

[Reds Nd2]

I'd think he goes FA.

That's what I thought, but it has to be occuring to him by now that he's just that good and there aren't going to be alot of teams clamoring for his services. I hope I'm wrong.

[corkedbat]

Yet brilliant for a 3rd catcher.

I'm not saying McCracken's anything special, I'm just noting that if McCracken can give you offense around his career norms with some speed and defense then he's worth more than a 3rd catcher. By definition you aren't going to find too many gifted hitters on the bench, but if McCracken can be a PH/PR/spot starter/defensive replacement then that trumps a guy whose job it is to sit around in case you PH for your two other catchers (who can already hit) with the other three players left on your bench.

I agree with the others who say that they're holding onto three catchers until one is traded. I've got a hunch there's a good chance Jason might have already been dealt if he didn't land on the DL. It may be that there is a deal that still may go through once Jason shows he's sound.

The way the current lineup is playing, I think the last man on the bench is just going to PH anyway. With three catchers, you have the option to use either of the guys not starting as a PH and I'd just as soone see either at the plate as QM.

I don't see this as a prolonged situation.

[Topcat]

Very pleased with The Cody Ross Acquisition, krivsky continues to pick up serviceable talent at bargain basement prices. He now is starting to be able to actually offer some talent on the trade market in exchange for pitching.

[Red Leader]

I also think that another player to be traded will be Austin Kearns. I would say Freel, he's the obvious man out of a starting position, but Freel is now signed to an affordable, long term deal. Kearns is not. Remember that thread I started a month or so ago about what every player Krivsky was dealing had in common-- they all had NO cost certainty. Because Kearns falls in that category, I think he'll be dealt by the end of the year, with Denorfia coming up to take his place as an everyday outfielder.

[djsauter]

Good move, yes. But..we still need to remember this team needs pitching, more than anything. We need to work on that still.

[M2]

I don't see this as a prolonged situation.

I don't either. Like I said, either Krivsky finds a deal he likes or Dave Ross gets a trip through waivers when all hands are on deck.

[Falls City Beer]

I also think that another player to be traded will be Austin Kearns. I would say Freel, he's the obvious man out of a starting position, but Freel is now signed to an affordable, long term deal. Kearns is not. Remember that thread I started a month or so ago about what every player Krivsky was dealing had in common-- they all had NO cost certainty. Because Kearns falls in that category, I think he'll be dealt by the end of the year, with Denorfia coming up to take his place as an everyday outfielder.

Kearns darn well better be gone this season, as one of two things is certain to happen: 1. he'll tear it up and immediately become overpriced or 2. he'll be anywhere from awful to decent, which will mean he's a worthless trading chip. He's got to go no matter what.

[flyer85]

Kearns darn well better be gone this season, as one of two things is certain to happen: 1. he'll tear it up and immediately become overpriced or 2. he'll be anywhere from awful to decent, which will mean he's a worthless trading chip. He's got to go no matter what.couldn't that be said of a bunch of players?

[KronoRed]

Kearns is probably still not worth much on the market, Freel might be to a team that values scrappy and OBP (Oakland)

[Big Klu]

Interesting that he's a Cleon Jones, bats right and throws lefthanded. You don't see that often in position players. In fact, I can't remember the Reds having one in my lifetime.

Brian R. Hunter, a 1B/OF who played for the Reds in 1994-95.




Well, woy has put up a table of guys over 6'5" (I believe) that played OF (or any position other than SP and 1B). Not many guys had productive careers into their mid-30's. Because of his body type, his career is going to be longer if he moves to 1B. As someone that is a big part of our offense (and the other one being injury prone already) and signed long term, it's kind of important that we don't get this guy injured early in his career. So, long term, if Adam wants to play ball beyond his current contract, he's going to HAVE to move to 1B.

Dunn is what I call a VLOF (Very Large Outfielder), and historically VLOFs make an inevitable trek to 1B (or DH, if in the AL). Examples include Frank Howard, Willie McCovey, Willie Stargell, Dave Winfield, Dave Kingman, and Dave Parker. I think that Dunn is aware of the fact that he will eventually have to move to 1B--I just think that he wants to put off the move until he is in his 30's.




When Jr comes back my guess is that the 3rd catcher stays and QM will be the one to go.

Barring a trade, I think you are right, as far as position players are concerned. But could the Reds possibly move/option/DFA a pitcher to make room for Griffey? I know that it's blasphemy to suggest that the Reds can manage with fewer than 12 pitchers on the staff, but I sincerely believe that they can, and the twelfth pitcher is just stinking up the place. (I know that there are more than one or two bad pitchers on the roster, but four pieces of rotten fish are better than five pieces of rotten fish!)

[Falls City Beer]

couldn't that be said of a bunch of players?

Not really. Just the ones getting fairly close to FA, like Kearns.

Say, for instance, that a 22 year old, super-hyped rookie comes up and performs respectably, but not brilliantly, he still possesses the hype that surrounds him, so his value isn't nil, by any means. Kearns isn't in that position at all; if he flops now, he's worthless, totally and completely. Kearns is in a highly peculiar position, IMO--and one that demands decisiveness (preferably a trade).

[pedro]

Kearns is probably still not worth much on the market, Freel might be to a team that values scrappy and OBP (Oakland)

He's at his high point in a while right now.

[KronoRed]

You are the first person I thought about when I read this thread....:thumbup:
:laugh:

[LincolnparkRed]

This Ross move is still a little bit confusing to me, You are basically getting Deno with a little more power. I wonder if they think that valentin can replace QM as the veteran pinch hitter of the bench. I am just not sure if they have soured on Deno because this move seems to reflect that.

[guttle11]

Awesome.

[Caveat Emperor]

Kearns is probably still not worth much on the market, Freel might be to a team that values scrappy and OBP (Oakland)

Kearns has value that can continue to increase -- he's still under what his perceived "ceiling" level was/has been as a prospect and a major league ballplayer. If he continues to play well, you'll see more and more teams lining up as possible suitors for Kearns.

Freel, right now, is at the height of his value. He can play 5 different positions and is one of the best leadoff hitters in the game. He's clearly the guy that needs to be on the move.


This Ross move is still a little bit confusing to me, You are basically getting Deno with a little more power. I wonder if they think that valentin can replace QM as the veteran pinch hitter of the bench. I am just not sure if they have soured on Deno because this move seems to reflect that.

I'm not so certain that Denorfia and Ross won't eventually be up on the same ML roster. Krivsky seems to value defense, something this outfield is distinctly deficient in. It'll be interesting to see if he is willing to sacrafice outfield productivity in order to improve the defense -- deal Kearns away for pitching, move Griffey for anything and start an outfield of Denorfia at CF, Ross at RF, and Dunn in LF (or 1B).

It's interesting to watch, but this ballclub is going in a radically different direction than before, IMO.

[PuffyPig]

I'd think he goes FA.

I think if he elects FA, then we don't have to pay him. Much like Jimenez last year. He had to go to the minors or forfeit his salary.

[Jr's Boy]

Nice to know that Krivsky is sending a message I believe to the the team as well.Cutting Dano's old wood and bringing in youth,showing the players that the old regime is over and a new day is on the horizon.I'm really impressed with Krivsky's addition's to this team thus far,and really laughing that the Bosox gave up Arroyo for the next Rob Deer.

[smith288]

Not really. Just the ones getting fairly close to FA, like Kearns.

Say, for instance, that a 22 year old, super-hyped rookie comes up and performs respectably, but not brilliantly, he still possesses the hype that surrounds him, so his value isn't nil, by any means. Kearns isn't in that position at all; if he flops now, he's worthless, totally and completely. Kearns is in a highly peculiar position, IMO--and one that demands decisiveness (preferably a trade).
Kearns is close to FA and also hasnt put up eye popping numbers which should keep him here for cheap. I doubt there is as much a market for him like a few years ago so Im thinking we're just hoping he flourishes in the near future (after we sign him for cheap of course).

[StillFunkyB]

This Wayne Krivsky feller sure is making this Reds fan happy.

I'm not about to hand him the key to the city, but I like what I have seen so far.

Keep it up Wayne, you may just have yerself a winner real soon! :)

[red-in-la]

Again, sounds like another trade is about to happen involving and outfielder......Kearns? JR? Film at eleven. :eek: :eek: :eek:

[Tommyjohn25]

It's interesting to watch, but this ballclub is going in a radically different direction than before, IMO.

And in no way is that depressing. ;)

[dsmith421]

Kearns darn well better be gone this season, as one of two things is certain to happen: 1. he'll tear it up and immediately become overpriced or 2. he'll be anywhere from awful to decent, which will mean he's a worthless trading chip. He's got to go no matter what.

Or signed to an affordable 3-4 year contract. I could see it happening, especially with Dunn signed up for a few more years.

[djsauter]

This team better not trade Kearns. I guarentee they will regret it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say that Kearns will become one of the better outfielders the game has ever seen. My gut tells me so.

[Joseph]

This team better not trade Kearns. I guarentee they will regret it. I'm gonna go out on a limb here, and say that Kearns will become one of the better outfielders the game has ever seen. My gut tells me so.

I still believe he'll be good, very good even, but I think your gut is telling you that you had a bad burrito or something. :)

[westofyou]

Kearns will become one of the better outfielders the game has ever seen.Too late for that, the guys already there started when they were 21 or younger, Kaline, Williams,Mays, Mantle, Kearns?

[penantboundreds]

I said last year that I thought that Narron had to do what DANO wanted and I think I was right, because he is sitting Aurillia more this year and sat the solid veteran Tony Womack (jk jk)

[killuminati35]

I don't like this trade at all. Again, the Reds are picking up what another team doesn't want. We picked up Brandon Philips, who has had ONE good week. He started off good for the Indians and quickly went down. I could easily forsee that happening again. Also, picking up so unknown OF from the Dodgers, when we need pitching does not help us at all. Plus, we have to eat $1.1 million is salary. This trade did nothing but hurt. We're stuck with yet another unproven scrap from some other team.

[redsmetz]

I don't like this trade at all. Again, the Reds are picking up what another team doesn't want. We picked up Brandon Philips, who has had ONE good week. He started off good for the Indians and quickly went down. I could easily forsee that happening again. Also, picking up so unknown OF from the Dodgers, when we need pitching does not help us at all. Plus, we have to eat $1.1 million is salary. This trade did nothing but hurt. We're stuck with yet another unproven scrap from some other team.

Welcome to the Redzone. I found this on ESPN on an overview of Detroit's system where Ross originated:


KEY SLEEPER
Cody Ross, OF: Doesn't get much respect, but hit .280 with 19 homers, 16 steals at Double-A Erie. Not a great athlete, but a grinder who knows how to play.

The truth is the Reds never should have had Tony Womack. It was an absolute waste of a trade and his days were numbered. I think Wayne K. is slowly, but surely, putting together a puzzle. And these "scraps" of other teams are teams with good systems, better than ours. I think this kid's got some potential and will either help the team directly or be part of bringing in that much needed pitching. Patience, my friend.

[IslandRed]

I don't like this trade at all. Again, the Reds are picking up what another team doesn't want. We picked up Brandon Philips, who has had ONE good week. He started off good for the Indians and quickly went down. I could easily forsee that happening again. Also, picking up so unknown OF from the Dodgers, when we need pitching does not help us at all. Plus, we have to eat $1.1 million is salary. This trade did nothing but hurt. We're stuck with yet another unproven scrap from some other team.

Yeah, it stinks that other teams are discarding better players than we have, but that happens. The only thing that matters is, are Phillips and Ross more useful than the guys we're cutting to make room for them? If the answer's yes, that's all the justification required.

As for Womack's salary, it's a sunk cost. They'll have to add a little payroll, but Ross probably makes league minimum. It's not too much to pay for a talent upgrade.