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View Full Version : Line-up without Freel



kbrake
04-24-2006, 10:02 PM
I think it is safe to say when Griffey comes back on Friday that we will see Freel less. I still think he will play much but I think it becomes very possible that Phillips becomes the regular at 2nd base. Also I think Freel is a guy who may be dealt for pitching. So when Freel is not playing, or if he is traded how do you fill out the line-up? Does FeLo leadoff? If so, who moves to the two spot?

alexad
04-24-2006, 10:36 PM
Phillips is at second base for a long long time.

KronoRed
04-24-2006, 10:38 PM
Lopez should lead off..he's the best choice, I don't like him in that spot but he's better then Phillips for it.

TOBTTReds
04-24-2006, 10:53 PM
Valentin...he gets on base, and did you see that blazing speed on that triple!?

CTA513
04-24-2006, 10:58 PM
Valentin...he gets on base, and did you see that blazing speed on that triple!?

He should have stretched it out for an inside the park homerun. ;)

kbrake
04-24-2006, 11:36 PM
So if you move Lopez to leadoff, who hits 2? Edwin? Or maybe even Phillips?

KronoRed
04-24-2006, 11:37 PM
Phillips I guess..or Dunn :D

dsmith421
04-25-2006, 12:30 AM
Freel means so much to this offense I can't bear the thought of leaving him out. I would much rather suffer through a week of adjustment with Dunn at first than remove one of our most potent offensive weapons.

Thus:

Freel LF
Lopez SS
Dunn 1B
Griffey CF
Kearns RF
Encarnacion 3B
Phillips 2B
LaRue C
Starter (feat. the All-Star Gas Can Crew) P

Reds1
04-25-2006, 12:31 AM
Sucks because they have some magic going, but it's going to have to change. How about Dunn. LOL - just kidding

KronoRed
04-25-2006, 02:43 AM
Dunn to 1st would solve it easily.

zombie-a-go-go
04-25-2006, 06:29 AM
I'd like to see Dunn at 1st and Freel in LF, but with the moves Kriv's made in the past 2 weeks, things don't look good for Ryan hanging around much longer.

I'd bet cash money (though not much) that he's being shopped.

kbrake
04-25-2006, 09:23 AM
I think Freel is being shopped as well, but I dont think there are many on this team that Krivsky is not at least testing the waters on. Freel, Kearns, LaRue are all guys I could see getting moved. Well not LaRue until he plays a little bit and gets his value back up, but I think this team will get shook up everytime Krivsky thinks he has a chance to improve this team. And one if not more of those guys are going to get moved for more pitching.

smith288
04-25-2006, 10:10 AM
I think its darn near a crime if Dunn doesnt move to first to keep freel in the lineup.

kbrake
04-25-2006, 10:41 AM
Everyone knows Dunn should move to first and that it would help this team out so much, but I just dont know if it will happen. I dont know why Dunn is so reluctant to make the move.

penantboundreds
04-25-2006, 11:54 AM
line-up without Freel shouldn't be a Reds line-up unless Freel is hurt or sent packing

RedsManRick
04-25-2006, 12:06 PM
Who has pitching to spare and needs a speedy OF? Twins could use help on the left side of the IF, but not freel. Angels are set at 2B and in the OF and already have Freel's twin in Figgins. I don't really see a trade partner that makes sense.

If we could field the lineup dsmith posted (with Phillips and LaRue flipped) I be thrilled. Even with the Cody Ross acquisition, I don't see Krvisky trading one of our starting position guys. The teams with the best pitching talent to deal don't really need the guys we have availble. Furthermore, we don't really have room for another middle rotation guy. As far as the trade market goes, it seems like we either need an impact starter or solid reliever.

Of course, if Williams is non-tendered and Wilson let go after this season, that certainly leaves room in the offseason. I think our impact trade waits until then.

That said, if Freel isn't in the lineup, I think it should look like this:

Lopez
Kearns
Dunn
Griffey
Encarnacion
Aurilia
Larue
Phillips

registerthis
04-25-2006, 12:09 PM
Taking Freel out of the lineup should not be an option. A legitimate leadoff hitter becomes a catalyst for so much, this offense takes on a different dimension when he's in the lineup.

dsmith421
04-25-2006, 12:21 PM
Everyone knows Dunn should move to first and that it would help this team out so much, but I just dont know if it will happen. I dont know why Dunn is so reluctant to make the move.

How do we know that it is Dunn dragging his feet on the move--isn't it more likely that Narron and Krivsky are hesitant to pull the trigger? After all, Dunn spent the majority of his time this spring preparing to play first base, didn't he?

Personally, I don't see where either Hatteberg or Aurilia is any great shakes defensively at first, and moving Dunn allows us to line up all our offensive weapons, improve the outfield defense, gives our infielders a huge target at first, and improves the bench by making both veteran bats available to pinch hit or spell one of the other guys.

Seems like a no-brainer to me.

MWM
04-25-2006, 12:31 PM
Dunn fighting against the move to first is a great example of something that gets said enough times as specualtion that the line between speculation and reality gets bluured to the point that it's become widely accepted as fact. Maybe he has fought against it, but I've yet to see any real evidence. When I see it I'll believe it.

flyer85
04-25-2006, 12:36 PM
Maybe he has fought against it, but I've yet to see any real evidence. When I see it I'll believe it.I agree, I saw this as a decision management. If Dunn had no interest in playing 1B full time he would have fought the change over the winter and certainly wouldn't have agreed to a 2 year deal with an option.

registerthis
04-25-2006, 02:41 PM
certainly wouldn't have agreed to a 2 year deal with an option.

Maybe he agreed to the deal because he was told he wouldn't have to play first?

Jpup
04-25-2006, 02:42 PM
Leave Freel in center, move Jr. to 1st or Left. It has to be done sooner of later. You have to get Jr. out of center or trade him to the AL. His legs are completely shot.

flyer85
04-25-2006, 02:44 PM
Maybe he agreed to the deal because he was told he wouldn't have to play first?Take the word of a GM against the advice of your agent, worked out well for Bronson. It's possible but seems unlikely. Most people would be skeptical and say "make the move, then I'll the sign the contract".

registerthis
04-25-2006, 02:48 PM
Take the word of a GM against the advice of your agent, worked out well for Bronson. It's possible but seems unlikely. Most people would be skeptical and say "make the move, then I'll the sign the contract".

Well, the Reds inked Hatteberg one day before they announced the Dunn extension. Pure speculation, but it does make one wonder.

KronoRed
04-25-2006, 03:25 PM
Maybe he agreed to the deal because he was told he wouldn't have to play first?
Unless it's in the language they should make him move now and tough cookies for him, best for the team.

KronoRed
04-25-2006, 03:25 PM
I'd like to see Dunn at 1st and Freel in LF, but with the moves Kriv's made in the past 2 weeks, things don't look good for Ryan hanging around much longer.

I'd bet cash money (though not much) that he's being shopped.
Will you strike if they trade him? ;)

MartyFan
04-25-2006, 07:13 PM
QM gone...Freel, Kearns, Larue trade bait for arms.

kbrake
04-25-2006, 11:04 PM
The only reason I think it is Dunn dragging his feet is that its so obvious to all of us I'm sure its obvious to Krivsky. I mean come on Krivsky is no O'Brien, I just really think he is smart enough to understand that this team would be at its best with Dunn at first and Griffey out of center for that matter. I just think it would be real tough to force guys to move.

zombie-a-go-go
04-26-2006, 06:33 AM
Will you strike if they trade him? ;)

If Ryan goes, I go. Unless the cheerleaders also go, in which case I'll stay... ah, never mind, I suppose I'll stay.

But I won't be happy about it, mind you! I'll grumble!



Look! A walrus! :mooner:

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 02:41 PM
The Reds should think twice about ticking off the zombie contingent.

GridironGrace
04-27-2006, 12:28 AM
NO Freel makes it hard.. :(

Lopez leads off, aurilia #2 if he's in the lineup

if i remmeber right alot of lopez's HR's last year were with Aurilia behind him? or randa one?? not sure dont take that line serious im just thinking and typing lol

aurilia #2 lets u keep that 4-7 batters the same which has worked ALOT this season i dont see a point in changing it.....

You could try Philliips up there but i think he is too agressive to bat #2.......same for Edwin....u'd see alot of DP grounders :(

Kearns MAYBE

Valentin MAYBE

It's a matter of trial and error IMO.......give a few different guys a shot at leadoff and #2 and go from there.... see if someone steps up

Far East
04-27-2006, 09:23 AM
In March 2's thread, "Best Lineup Projector", RedsManRick referred to the link: http://www.beyondtheboxscore.com/sto.../25/21329/9401:

"1. This is the most OBP-centric spot in the lineup. Your hitter here might very well be your best hitter, IF his best attribute is his OBP...

2.The 2-hitter should be the lineup's most balanced hitter, a good combination of OBP and SLG...

3. The 3 hitter should be the player that doesn't fit into any of the other spots... If you can get a good hitter here, it means that your lineup is very deep...

4. This guy's best attribute should be his power, with OBP being of secondary importance...

5. Picking the 5 hitter is simple: it's the second choice for the two slot...

6. The 6 hitter shows the biggest difference between SLG and OBP on the roster... The 6 hitter is the most exclusively power-dependent hitter of the bunch. His OBP is VERY unimportant...

7. The 7 hitter is the less extreme version of the 6 hitter, with less of a need for power and more usage for OBP.

8. This is the worst hitter in the lineup. If it's the pitcher, he goes here... because you'd rather not put the pitcher close to two of the best hitters in the lineup: the 1 and 2.

9. The 9 hitter should be a 'punchless wonder,' of sorts...This is the "stereotypical leadoff hitter" to the extreme..."

And added:
"Your #3 hitter is the most likely person to come up with 2 outs and nobody on and the least likely person to leadoff the 2nd innings, so the relative value of a hit/walk is lower there than in other spots... and we should design a lineup that make best use of players given what is most likely to happen (making an out)... If your cleanup hitter gets up in the first inning, it's because somebody IS on base, guarenteed. If nobody gets on, he will be leading off the 4th, so he better be a solid OBP threat..."

Under those ground rules, shouldn't Dunn hit 4th, thus being at bat in the 1st inning with at least one runner on or, failing that, leading off the 2nd with his chance to walk to start off the inning? And shouldn't the catcher be at #3 (player that doesn't fit into any of the other spots)? For example, with Dunn at 1B and Freel in the OF:

Freel
Lopez
Catcher
Dunn
Griffey
Kearns
Encarnacion
Pitcher
Phillips

Phillips at #9 is the career Phillips, not the NL Player Of The Week Phillips.

KronoRed
04-27-2006, 04:24 PM
Ross 3rd? :runawaycr

Eric_Davis
04-27-2006, 05:42 PM
Freel means so much to this offense I can't bear the thought of leaving him out. I would much rather suffer through a week of adjustment with Dunn at first than remove one of our most potent offensive weapons.

Thus:

Freel LF
Lopez SS
Dunn 1B
Griffey CF
Kearns RF
Encarnacion 3B
Phillips 2B
LaRue C
Starter (feat. the All-Star Gas Can Crew) P

Exactly...I'd play the rest of the year like this, and take the errors with the runs.

Far East
04-28-2006, 08:31 AM
Ross 3rd? :runawaycr
Yes, according to the guidelines in RedsManRick's aforementioned post: "Your #3 hitter is the most likely person to come up with 2 outs and nobody on ... The 3 hitter should be the player that doesn't fit into any of the other spots..."

And he's bound to see many more "get-me-over" straight pitches in the zone due to hitting in front of Dunn/Griffey instead of a lot of nasty pitches like the traditional #8 guy now has to endure.

KronoRed
04-28-2006, 03:25 PM
This must be what Narron uses then to decide his 3 hitters, Aurilia,Hatteberg ;)

redsrule2500
04-29-2006, 01:20 AM
Reds trading freel would suck.

Patrick Bateman
04-29-2006, 11:53 AM
Reds trading freel would suck.

With Phillips I don't see him as a necessary player. He's also not a particularly good fielder. If we can get a good pitcher for him it might be worth doing so.

KronoRed
04-29-2006, 02:46 PM
He's the only leadoff hitter on the team, but if someone wants to overpay for him I'm in favor of a trade.

Far East
04-29-2006, 08:21 PM
During today's game (on a Direct TV's Extra Innings channel) the Astro's sportscaster observed that Dunn made an excellent cleanup hitter not only for the obvious power reasons, but added that if the Reds went 3 up and 3 down in the 1st inning, then Dunn (with his good OBP) had the opportunity to lead off the second inning perhaps with a walk -- he could have added "or a base hit" -- to start the inning.

redsrule2500
05-02-2006, 11:10 AM
With Phillips I don't see him as a necessary player. He's also not a particularly good fielder. If we can get a good pitcher for him it might be worth doing so.

I see Freel as a great fielder, he has made PLENTY of plays that Griffey wouldn't have even attempted.