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View Full Version : Dunn needs a day off!!!!!



WVPacman
04-26-2006, 12:22 AM
I might be wrong but I think he has played everygame so far and if I am wrong he still needs a day off.He looks very tired out there and does'nt look very comfortable at all at the plate.He does'nt look very balanced at the plate and when a player looks like that then they can't hit the ball very good and that makes them start to try to hard at the plate and panic and thats what Dunn is doing now.Narron needs to sit him a day before he waits to long then Dunn will be in a worst slump than he is now.

Arroyo is pitching tomorrow so I don't look for many runs being scored from the Nationals(cross fingers) and the Reds always finds ways to score runs so I don't see them needing Dunn tomorrow.He can pinch hit for us tomorrow if we need it!!!!

Sabo Fan
04-26-2006, 12:40 AM
I had the same thought while watching the game tonight. A day off tomorrow coupled with the off-day on Thursday might do Dunn a world of good. Have him fresh for when the team comes back to Cincinnati for the weekend where the surroundings, from a hitting perspective, are a bit more friendly. Would also give us a chance to see Ross play should Dunn sit. I think it's a good idea.

Gainesville Red
04-26-2006, 12:51 AM
I agree that he needs a day off, but man, I'd love to see him hit against Ramon Ortiz. Wish he would have gotten today off.

WVPacman
04-26-2006, 12:54 AM
Yeah your right I forgot about the day off on thursday!!! Two days off would help him out alot for the up coming series at home.I would like to see what Ross brings to the table and tomorrows game would be the perfect opurtunity.

Is it a day game or night game?? I don't think its going to be on tv here in WV and I would like to try and find it on the radio.:beerme:

WVPacman
04-26-2006, 12:57 AM
I agree that he needs a day off, but man, I'd love to see him hit against Ramon Ortiz. Wish he would have gotten today off.


Nah he will get Ortiz when he comes to Cincy,I would rest him before he gets into a slump that he can't get out of.You never know he might play tomorrow!!

NDRed
04-26-2006, 01:25 AM
Day off??? He looks tired???

Does he have another job I don't know about? Is 5-6 hours a day too much?

kheidg-
04-26-2006, 01:37 AM
Day off??? He looks tired???

Does he have another job I don't know about? Is 5-6 hours a day too much?

Exactly. Play him 162 games a year unless slightly injured.

Sabo Fan
04-26-2006, 02:11 AM
Day off??? He looks tired???

Does he have another job I don't know about? Is 5-6 hours a day too much?

I think we're talking about mental exhaustion here rather than physical. Sometimes guys just need a day off to clear their heads and get back on track. Right now he just looks a bit off kilter and he may be pressing with Junior out of the lineup. I'm not usually a guy who likes to see the regulars sit, but I think that in this case it's defensible. He was flailing at pitches tonight and I think it might be a good time for him to watch a game.

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 02:32 AM
Give him a rest, slump.

Good news is ANYONE can rake off Ortiz :D

kyred14
04-26-2006, 02:51 AM
Give him a rest, slump.

Good news is ANYONE can rake off Ortiz :D

Krono, you could use a day off yourself, I'm just not seeing the quality posts I saw to start the season. ;)

The Baumer
04-26-2006, 03:23 AM
6 hours on a ball field is much, much different than 10 hours in an office or factory. Ask any of the middle aged men who moan after one softball game on the weekend.

zombie-a-go-go
04-26-2006, 06:27 AM
6 hours on a ball field is much, much different than 10 hours in an office or factory. Ask any of the middle aged men who moan after one softball game on the weekend.

Hey!!

I'm not (quite) middle-aged! :cool:

StillFunkyB
04-26-2006, 06:58 AM
Krono, you could use a day off yourself, I'm just not seeing the quality posts I saw to start the season. ;)


Yeah, I'm note sure the K-Man will ever be able to post with smilies in scoring position. :evil:

Falls City Beer
04-26-2006, 08:46 AM
Oh lord. The work ethic argument.

If it means pacing Dunn properly, I'd give him TWO days off and a skid of corn dogs!

smith288
04-26-2006, 09:43 AM
I wish I got a day off by my boss to "clear my head" from all this coding...

Geez.

Falls City Beer
04-26-2006, 09:45 AM
I wish I got a day off by my boss to "clear my head" from all this coding...

Geez.

You don't get weekends off? :confused:

Remind me to stay away from your fiefdom.

smith288
04-26-2006, 09:54 AM
You don't get weekends off? :confused:

Remind me to stay away from your fiefdom.
Actually, I dont since I work for 3 companies. Some of us have to actually WORK to make our cash rather than play a kids game.

westofyou
04-26-2006, 09:54 AM
Exactly. Play him 162 games a year unless slightly injured.
Yeah, play him into the ground, because aftar all it's only a game.

smith288
04-26-2006, 09:58 AM
Yeah, play him into the ground, because aftar all it's only a game.
It is. Dunn aint out there saving the world.

westofyou
04-26-2006, 10:05 AM
It is. Dunn aint out there saving the world.
Yeah, but even The Decider gets to cut wood every now and then.

I'm a firm believer in the non 162 player, the 162 game player is a myth, so you guys keep pretending it's a reality and watch the guys game lag.

membengal
04-26-2006, 10:27 AM
Days off are fine, but if you want to give him a day off, make it against Pettitte this weekend, not against Ortiz today...

Falls City Beer
04-26-2006, 10:28 AM
I don't think working 7 days a week, 365 days a year deserves honorifics. You're either stupid or circumstance has forced your hand. But it's not a reflection of one's morality. People require rest, and there's not a damn thing wrong with giving it to someone if it helps the bottom line (the Reds' record).

Falls City Beer
04-26-2006, 10:33 AM
Days off are fine, but if you want to give him a day off, make it against Pettitte this weekend, not against Ortiz today...

No way. The Reds are going to need every last little bit of offense they can muster this weekend, no matter which hand the pitcher uses.

Even I will get mad at Narron about his lineups if he gives the best hitters days off this weekend.

smith288
04-26-2006, 10:53 AM
Who said 365 days a year he needs to be on the diamond? If I remember correctly, Dunn is a master of the game console over the winter. I just dont believe a player suffers from exhaustion playing baseball. They just get in funks and the best way to get out of one is to keep at it.

TeamBoone
04-26-2006, 10:58 AM
According to this morning's paper, he'll get one... on Thursday.


Wednesday, April 26, 2006
BY JOHN FAY | ENQUIRER STAFF WRITER


PATIENCE PLEASE: Adam Dunn entered Tuesday's game on a 2-for-22 skid.

Hitting coach Chris Chambliss' cure is patience. That may sound odd given that Dunn went into Tuesday second in the National League with 21 walks.

"He's doing what I call jumping at the ball. Not literally jumping, but not letting the ball get to him," Chambliss said.

Despite the walks, Chambliss would like to see Dunn be more patient.

"It's not like him to swing at bad pitches," Chambliss said. "But he is. We're working on it. We'll get him back on track."

Dunn will play his way out of the slump. He's the only Red to have started every game. His off day will be Thursday when the team is off.

"He's got a chance to hit a home run every time he goes to the plate," Narron said.

Dunn went into Tuesday without a homer since April 17. The seven-game drought was his longest of the year.

Narron said he would have considered sitting Dunn if a left-hander were pitching today. But former Reds right-hander Ramon Ortiz is scheduled to pitch. Ortiz has a tendency to give up home runs - thus Dunn likely will be in there.

For complete article:
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060426/SPT04/604260382/1071

BRM
04-26-2006, 11:06 AM
One of the great things about Dunn is that even when he's slumping, he still helps the team. He might be hitting .091 the last seven days but he's taken 10 walks and has a .375 OBP during that span. He's not hitting the ball but he's still getting on base.

westofyou
04-26-2006, 11:14 AM
I just dont believe a player suffers from exhaustion playing baseball. But the existence of a baseball player is more than just playing basball, it's a whole box of goods for six months a year with around 8 true days off in that time, with many hours being shuttled from here to there.

Sometimes you have to chill, even if you feel good.

I guess with Greenie watch on the number of 155 gamers will drop (that's 1 week on the bench the whole season)

BuckeyeRedleg
04-26-2006, 11:18 AM
Ok, I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so I figured I asked here.

A guy in my office comes by every day and wants to talk about the Reds. Everyday he's ripping on Dunn and everyday I try to explain to him that he's missing out if he's not appreciating what we have with Dunn. Today, he walks by and says "How's your boy Dunn doing now"? I say that he should probably have a day off today and he'll be hitting again before you know it and the guy just goes off. "Dunn's horrible." "He strikes out all the time." "He's just another Dave Kingman." "He's overrated." "He only hits solo HR's." "He never produced when the game is on the line." blah blah blah.

So, I try to explain that he's no Kingman and that batting average is not as important as OBP. I explain to him that the most important thing in baseball is scoring runs and he says, "No, it's winning". I say, "Well, you have to score runs to win, especially when you have bad pitching like we do and below average defense." Then he says, "we are talking about Dunn here, not the team as a whole." I go on to tell him that Dunn is a poster child for our team's offense. A lot of runs, high OBP, high SLG% (OPS) and an average that is well, average.

Is there anything online that I can reference to put this guy in his place. Something relatively simple so that he doesn't get overwhelmed.
The problem with arguing with people like this is that they are so irrational using terms such as "always" and "never" and they argue using their emotions. I know I'm right and can show him calmly with the numbers but don't know where I can find the most basic article or tables of stats to prove my point.

Help, or I may have to put the headphones on and ignore this guy until September. I just can't stand the banana-phone watercooler talk here at work. Oh, yeah. this guy thinks Sean Casey was the greatest, but yet is obsessed with proving Dunn is "overrated" and overpaid.

Far East
04-26-2006, 11:27 AM
Freel perhaps also. Although he hit a hard liner is his final AB on Tuesday, he is batting just .200 over the last 7 days and was out trying to steal third two days ago -- not typical of Freel the catalyst.

Maybe both Ross and McCracken will see some OF time today.

westofyou
04-26-2006, 11:30 AM
Ok, I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so I figured I asked here.

A guy in my office comes by every day and wants to talk about the Reds. Everyday he's ripping on Dunn and everyday I try to explain to him that he's missing out if he's not appreciating what we have with Dunn. Today, he walks by and says "How's your boy Dunn doing now"? I say that he should probably have a day off today and he'll be hitting again before you know it and the guy just goes off. "Dunn's horrible." "He strikes out all the time." "He's just another Dave Kingman." "He's overrated." "He only hits solo HR's." "He never produced when the game is on the line." blah blah blah.

So, I try to explain that he's no Kingman and that batting average is not as important as OBP. I explain to him that the most important thing in baseball is scoring runs and he says, "No, it's winning". I say, "Well, you have to score runs to win, especially when you have bad pitching like we do and below average defense." Then he says, "we are talking about Dunn here, not the team as a whole." I go on to tell him that Dunn is a poster child for our team's offense. A lot of runs, high OBP, high SLG% (OPS) and an average that is well, average.

Is there anything online that I can reference to put this guy in his place. Something relatively simple so that he doesn't get overwhelmed.
The problem with arguing with people like this is that they are so irrational using terms such as "always" and "never" and they argue using their emotions. I know I'm right and can show him calmly with the numbers but don't know where I can find the most basic article or tables of stats to prove my point.

Help, or I may have to put the headphones on and ignore this guy until September. I just can't stand the banana-phone watercooler talk here at work. Oh, yeah. this guy thinks Sean Casey was the greatest, but yet is obsessed with proving Dunn is "overrated" and overpaid.

Tell him this

Ichiro Suzuki and Adam Dunn both step up to the plate 650 times. Ichiro gets 200 hits and 50 walks while Dunn gets 170 hits and 120 walks. Neither gets hit by a pitch and for the sake of this argument, neither have a sacrifice fly either. Since most people readily recognize batting average, letís look at them Ė Ichiro is hitting .308, while Dunn is hitting .257. Obviously, Ichiroís average looks a lot better. But, now letís check their OBP. Ichiro has a .357 OBP and therefore a 35.7% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. Dunn has a .376 OBP and therefore a 37.6% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. Thatís a significant increase in percentage for Dunn when you add in the walks.

Then add that Dunn had over 77 Extra base Hits last year, 29 more than Ichiro

Chip R
04-26-2006, 11:36 AM
Ok, I didn't want to start a new thread on this, so I figured I asked here.

A guy in my office comes by every day and wants to talk about the Reds. Everyday he's ripping on Dunn and everyday I try to explain to him that he's missing out if he's not appreciating what we have with Dunn. Today, he walks by and says "How's your boy Dunn doing now"? I say that he should probably have a day off today and he'll be hitting again before you know it and the guy just goes off. "Dunn's horrible." "He strikes out all the time." "He's just another Dave Kingman." "He's overrated." "He only hits solo HR's." "He never produced when the game is on the line." blah blah blah.

So, I try to explain that he's no Kingman and that batting average is not as important as OBP. I explain to him that the most important thing in baseball is scoring runs and he says, "No, it's winning". I say, "Well, you have to score runs to win, especially when you have bad pitching like we do and below average defense." Then he says, "we are talking about Dunn here, not the team as a whole." I go on to tell him that Dunn is a poster child for our team's offense. A lot of runs, high OBP, high SLG% (OPS) and an average that is well, average.

Is there anything online that I can reference to put this guy in his place. Something relatively simple so that he doesn't get overwhelmed.
The problem with arguing with people like this is that they are so irrational using terms such as "always" and "never" and they argue using their emotions. I know I'm right and can show him calmly with the numbers but don't know where I can find the most basic article or tables of stats to prove my point.

Help, or I may have to put the headphones on and ignore this guy until September. I just can't stand the banana-phone watercooler talk here at work. Oh, yeah. this guy thinks Sean Casey was the greatest, but yet is obsessed with proving Dunn is "overrated" and overpaid.

I didn't know you worked with Bad Fundamentals. ;)

Joseph
04-26-2006, 11:47 AM
I didn't know you worked with Bad Fundamentals. ;)

I think you mean Lance McAlister. ;)

BuckeyeRedleg
04-26-2006, 11:53 AM
Tell him this

Ichiro Suzuki and Adam Dunn both step up to the plate 650 times. Ichiro gets 200 hits and 50 walks while Dunn gets 170 hits and 120 walks. Neither gets hit by a pitch and for the sake of this argument, neither have a sacrifice fly either. Since most people readily recognize batting average, letís look at them Ė Ichiro is hitting .308, while Dunn is hitting .257. Obviously, Ichiroís average looks a lot better. But, now letís check their OBP. Ichiro has a .357 OBP and therefore a 35.7% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. Dunn has a .376 OBP and therefore a 37.6% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. Thatís a significant increase in percentage for Dunn when you add in the walks.

Then add that Dunn had over 77 Extra base Hits last year, 29 more than Ichiro

I love it. Thank you.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-26-2006, 12:02 PM
I didn't know you worked with Bad Fundamentals. ;)


It probably is him. Funny thing, the guy was telling me how overpaid Dunn was and I mentioned Casey and he said (no kidding) "Yeah, but he had heart, and you can't put a price on that." I seriously almost spit my coffee all over him. Then, I mentioned I'd take a lineup of Dunn's over Casey's any day and that chemistry and heart was not measurable and he said (again, no kidding), "Well, I'm glad you aren't a coach."

I just shut my mouth and walked away. I didn't bother to mention that I coached Dublin's 8th grade team one summer to a 17-2 record. Some things are just better left unsaid.



Here is what I just sent him:

(Edit: I still haven't been able to get the darn tables right in here. Anyway, it was a spreadsheet from thebaseballcube showing Kingman's lifetime stats and Dunn's coming into this year.)

-Adam Dunn could have more career walks at age 26 (after this season) than Dave Kingman had in 16 years, which is reflected is the OBP. Kingman had a career .302 % and Dunn is at .383%.

-Dunn so far has outslugged Kingman .518 % to .478%

-Look at the OPS (OBP + SLG %). Dunn .901 career and rising, Kingman .780 career.

-Dunn has a .248 lifetime average at 25. Kingman was .224 at the same age and finished at .236.

-Dunn at 25 (coming into this season) has double the numbers across the board as Kingman at 25, plus at 25, he's only going to get better across the board.

-The only similiarity is K's and Dunn currently is averaging more per season, however factoring in the huge difference BB's (OBP) and extra base hits (SLG%), Dunn's K's are offset by his high OPS.


After's he's digested that, I'll send him WOY's Ichiro/Dunn comparison.

Good thing it's a slow day at work.;)

Joseph
04-26-2006, 12:22 PM
Nice work BR

membengal
04-26-2006, 12:25 PM
No way. The Reds are going to need every last little bit of offense they can muster this weekend, no matter which hand the pitcher uses.

Even I will get mad at Narron about his lineups if he gives the best hitters days off this weekend.

Well, I am not advocating sitting him, just noting that if the Reds were, or if some on here will only be appeased if he sits, I would rather it be against a nasty left-hander than a right hander with not a whole lot, like Ramon Ortiz.

At any rate, happily, the Reds are not sitting him against anyone, which is good.

Also good to see that Chambliss is preaching more patience to him. Excellent news.

registerthis
04-26-2006, 12:37 PM
Freel perhaps also. Although he hit a hard liner is his final AB on Tuesday, he is batting just .200 over the last 7 days and was out trying to steal third two days ago -- not typical of Freel the catalyst.

Maybe both Ross and McCracken will see some OF time today.

nah, Freel's fine. He made solid contact three times last night, just didn't happen to drop any of them in the field. When he starts whiffing our slapping lazy groundouts to the SS, that's a sign that he's tired. But I'm not seeing any signs of that now.

Chip R
04-26-2006, 12:44 PM
Well, I am not advocating sitting him, just noting that if the Reds were, or if some on here will only be appeased if he sits, I would rather it be against a nasty left-hander than a right hander with not a whole lot, like Ramon Ortiz.


I agree. It would be a good idea to give him a rest. Personally I would have sat him against Davis but Narron didn't and it turned out OK. Sat. against Pettite may be a good time to do that. Hey, at least Narron isn't resting him against "kooky leftys" or batting him 6th or 7th.

BoydsOfSummer
04-26-2006, 02:28 PM
Tell him this

Ichiro Suzuki and Adam Dunn both step up to the plate 650 times. Ichiro gets 200 hits and 50 walks while Dunn gets 170 hits and 120 walks. Neither gets hit by a pitch and for the sake of this argument, neither have a sacrifice fly either. Since most people readily recognize batting average, let’s look at them – Ichiro is hitting .308, while Dunn is hitting .257. Obviously, Ichiro’s average looks a lot better. But, now let’s check their OBP. Ichiro has a .357 OBP and therefore a 35.7% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. Dunn has a .376 OBP and therefore a 37.6% chance of reaching base safely and potentially scoring a run. That’s a significant increase in percentage for Dunn when you add in the walks.

Then add that Dunn had over 77 Extra base Hits last year, 29 more than Ichiro


Yes folks, it is that simple.

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 02:35 PM
Krono, you could use a day off yourself, I'm just not seeing the quality posts I saw to start the season. ;)
I'm still up there trying, I'm clutch and I know how to play the game
:D

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 02:36 PM
I didn't know you worked with Bad Fundamentals. ;)
So he works with Raisor? :eek:

penantboundreds
04-26-2006, 02:37 PM
well it isnt that simple because dunn isnt quick like ichiro, ichiro manufactures things when he is on the bases (like freel)......im not knocking dunn at all but thats not a good comparison

westofyou
04-26-2006, 02:44 PM
well it isnt that simple because dunn isnt quick like ichiro, ichiro manufactures things when he is on the bases (like freel)......im not knocking dunn at all but thats not a good comparison
The comparison is more for the batting average argument.

BTW Dunn manufactors runs from the plate better than Ichiro does, so the basepath theory can be seen somewhat as a wash, Ichiro puts pressure on the defense when on the bases, but Dunn racks up pitch counts and cause big leads to disappear quickly.

Both do different things that help the team... the common misconception is that the only way to do it is the Ichiro way.

cReds1
04-26-2006, 06:26 PM
I would like someone to break down a game for me to tell me what part of the time a player is actually on the field each day. Most games average about 3 hours, well, break that down to 1 1/2 hours per team a player is on the field, but are resting the other 1 1/2 hours give or take, so 90 minutes a day playing a game then a player needs to have a day off?

The player would be up to the plate at least 3 times or more and give them an extra 15 to 20 minutes, so now we could say the player is almost active 105 minutes of each playing day. Where does this constitute a player needing a day off? I don't get it. Starting tomorrow they will have had 3 days off because of no play. Most of the time they are either sitting or standing around. They are young are they not?

I could agree that travel time could fatigue someone more than actually playing in the games, but you should get used to it since they stay in one area for about 3 days or more.

Each month they get 3 free days off because of not playing. If we added all the time up and say they play about 27 or 28 days a month then they would have played approximately 49 hours out of a month.

Is this alot? What does our work week consist of? I am one for a player is getting paid to play a game. Does he really deserve more time off or should a player have one? I would say a catcher and a pitcher would need more time off then anyone else on the field. They are always using a part of the body that would wear down more than others.

IslandRed
04-26-2006, 07:04 PM
Baseball players don't get fatigued in the same sense that, say, basketball players would. But MLB is demanding in its own right; you hear the word "grind" used a lot. There are a lot of repetitive motions and the nature of the game -- summed up as "stand around, stand around, runasfastasyoucan" -- is hard on muscles and joints. Because they play every day, all the nicks and dings hang around longer. Because the sport is based on fine muscle skills, get enough dings and it starts to hurt performance.

What managers are trying to do by tossing in the extra rest day now and then is to get their players to the latter part of the season reasonably fresh and effective. If they're in the playoff chase, the key guys aren't going to get rest days down the stretch.

The Baumer
04-26-2006, 08:44 PM
The summer after my senior year in high school I played 25 games in about 35 days. I was dead. Exhausted. Is there anyone here who has even played 5 games in a row and not felt it? The days add up. Especially 162 of them.

TeamBoone
04-26-2006, 09:50 PM
The summer after my senior year in high school I played 25 games in about 35 days. I was dead. Exhausted. Is there anyone here who has even played 5 games in a row and not felt it? The days add up. Especially 162 of them.

And contrary to popular belief, a player's day is a lot longer than the approximate 3 hours spent on the field, at the plate, and in the dugout.

kyred14
04-26-2006, 10:36 PM
And contrary to popular belief, a player's day is a lot longer than the approximate 3 hours spent on the field, at the plate, and in the dugout.

It's not for that lazy-ass Dunn :devil:

WVPacman
04-27-2006, 12:46 AM
Well it looks like I was wrong :laugh: he went 3-5 today. Im glad he started hitting the ball again b/c we will difenantly need him these next two series.


Way to go Dunn!!!

GAC
04-27-2006, 05:57 AM
He gets today off. ;)

I've never been a big fan or advocate of this "day off" mentality. Can it be shown that it really helps?

It's APRIL for cryin' out loud! I can't believe it can be a fatique factor. Not with today's athletes.

One plays out of a slump.... not sitting on the bench thinking about it. That's my two cents. ;)

westofyou
04-27-2006, 10:14 AM
I've never been a big fan or advocate of this "day off" mentality. Can it be shown that it really helps?

Let's query the 1969 Cubs and find out.

GAC
04-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Let's query the 1969 Cubs and find out.

small window. :p:

westofyou
04-27-2006, 11:25 AM
small window. :p:
I prefer "Tip of the Iceberg"

GAC
04-27-2006, 11:42 AM
I prefer "Tip of the Iceberg"

:lol:

redsmetz
04-27-2006, 12:15 PM
Baseball players don't get fatigued in the same sense that, say, basketball players would. But MLB is demanding in its own right; you hear the word "grind" used a lot. There are a lot of repetitive motions and the nature of the game -- summed up as "stand around, stand around, runasfastasyoucan" -- is hard on muscles and joints. Because they play every day, all the nicks and dings hang around longer. Because the sport is based on fine muscle skills, get enough dings and it starts to hurt performance.

What managers are trying to do by tossing in the extra rest day now and then is to get their players to the latter part of the season reasonably fresh and effective. If they're in the playoff chase, the key guys aren't going to get rest days down the stretch.

I did a Google search on this and found this interesting article from the Seattle Post-Intelligencer:


Locked on Sports: Demise of 'greenies' will alter baseball

By DAVID LOCKE
SPECIAL TO THE P-I

Steroids continue to grab headlines surrounding Major League Baseball. However, the drug issue that will have the most impact in 2006 is the new ban on amphetamines.

Hot dogs, apple pie and "greenies" might as well have been the slogan for America's favorite pastime.

Jim Bouton's "Ball Four," published in 1970, was the first to openly discuss the clubhouse use of "greenies." How long they have been a part of the game is unknown.

Starting in 1970, use of amphetamines without a prescription was a federal crime; nonetheless, they have been an institution in the game of baseball.

Many retired players recall "greenies" being in big jelly bean jars for the taking.

It wasn't uncommon for a veteran on a slumping team to throw a bunch inside of the coffee pot to literally jump-start his club.

It was common knowledge that "greenies" were in the game and in the clubhouse. Some players were known as the team pharmacists.

This year, for the first time, every big league player will be tested for amphetamines.

The penalties are less severe than steroids. Upon the first positive test the player will face an evaluation and follow-up testing. A second positive test will result in a 25-game suspension and a third will bring an 80-game suspension.

For this story I talked to several longtime players at the major league level. "Greenies" were primarily used for two reasons: First, to get a player up for a game; second, to help a player get through his workout when his body wouldn't start. It gave players a jolt when their bodies and minds were worn down from the grind of a 162-game season.

They helped fight the fatigue and the soreness. In a superstitious game, they also became security blankets and parts of rituals.

For the majority of players, the "greenies" were the boost they needed in an insanely competitive environment that exposes the slightest frailty.

With testing now a part of big league life, the game is about to have some dramatic changes.

The players I spoke with thought changes to batting averages, slugging percentages and earned-run averages would all be subtle.

However, they all thought those who play in all 162 games will go the route of the black-and-white TV. Playing the day after a night game is going to be the exception rather than the rule.

Managers may begin to pull the plug on games in which the starting pitcher gets blasted much faster in order to get his guy rest.

Catchers, who go through the most grueling punishment, may be the most impacted.

Some players think there will be an increase in trips to the disabled list. The player who used to be able to fight through the soreness will now spend a stint on the DL.

Bench players will be called upon more than ever. The Mariners-focused baseball blog, Lookout Landing, found that on average last year an American League team's original starting lineup covered only 75 percent of a team's at-bats. It also found that one-fifth of all pitchers who started were not in the Opening Day rotation.

This gives another advantage to the large payroll team that is willing to pay $1 million for a bench player.

Will it be worse for a warm-weather team like Texas, or will the Mariners' excess travel become a major disadvantage?

Interestingly, all of the players I spoke with thought the new testing would have a major impact on the season. They were all glad amphetamines were being taken out of the game.

The presence of "greenies" was so prevalent that all players felt they had to use them. To some extent they were forced into using by the competitive culture inside the game.

Unquestionably, it will be a cleaner game. It also will be a different one.