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View Full Version : Sorry, but Aurilia Is Valuable



BuckU
04-26-2006, 01:07 PM
At the risk of causing an uproar...I have to lay down my opinion of Aurilia...

I think Rich is a very important member of this team. He has the ability to play all four infield positions, although I doubt we'll be seeing him at SS since the acquisition of Phillips. He has learned 1B in a pinch and is actually pretty decent. He has the ability to be moved around the infield late in ballgames to allow the Reds to have their most reliable infield out there to protect a lead.

He's pretty clutch with RISP as we all know. And as much as we like to make fun of "professional at bats", they do mean something (even I'm not sure what), and Aurilia provides them.

Over the course of his tenure in Cincinnati folks on here have blasted the signing. Last year he was signed to a 600K contract and clearly out-performed it, this year he signed for more (1.3M) and will likely under-perform it. But if you look at the cost for his two seasons, for less than 2M you got a pretty serviceable player who produces.

The other knock was hit attitude. It was a big distraction at the beginning of last season. I think that was more of a clash with Miley than anything. Maybe Miley over-promised playing time? Once Narron took over he appeard to accept his role more. And this year he seems to have a great attitude. We all saw Monday night when Lizard came out of the game and Rich walked down and offered his hand and a pat on the back. Classy thing to do in my opinion.

All in all, I think Rich is valuable. He is what he is, a slightly-more-than-average-part-time-player who is versatile and still has some life in his bat and not a burden financially.

I'm glad to have Aurilia on the club. :aurilia: = :thumbup:

[/cheesy rant complete]

pedro
04-26-2006, 01:09 PM
I think he's an ok guy to have on the team if he's used correctly and thusfar this year I think Narron has been doing a pretty good job of utilizing him.

traderumor
04-26-2006, 01:11 PM
His bashing is in the past. I'd say most, if not all, agree with you. Some of it has to do with an obvious attitude change. Folks are won over when they see someone admit by their actions that they have been humbled and understand their role. Heck, I can almost live with him in the 3 spot with Griffey out of there.

Ohioballplayer
04-26-2006, 01:12 PM
Buck, Pedro, I agree with you both, but let us not forget about his excellent hitting with runners on.

M2
04-26-2006, 01:14 PM
I think he's an ok guy to have on the team if he's used correctly and thusfar this year I think Narron has been doing a pretty good job of utilizing him.

Yep. My problems with Aurilia ended when Felipe took the starting SS job from him. If he's going to be deployed as a bench player and if he can swallow his ego to accept that, then I don't mind having Aurilia around.

Falls City Beer
04-26-2006, 01:20 PM
Yep. My problems with Aurilia ended when Felipe took the starting SS job from him. If he's going to be deployed as a bench player and if he can swallow his ego to accept that, then I don't mind having Aurilia around.

Absolutely. A bench player with a bit of pop is the best kind of bench player to have, IMO.

CTA513
04-26-2006, 01:20 PM
His bashing is in the past. I'd say most, if not all, agree with you. Some of it has to do with an obvious attitude change. Folks are won over when they see someone admit by their actions that they have been humbled and understand their role. Heck, I can almost live with him in the 3 spot with Griffey out of there.

:thumbup:

My problem with him last year was his attitude. I think he finally realized his role with the team and accepted it.

gonelong
04-26-2006, 01:21 PM
At the risk of causing an uproar...I have to lay down my opinion of Aurilia...

I think Rich is a very important member of this team. He has the ability to play all four infield positions, although I doubt we'll be seeing him at SS since the acquisition of Phillips. He has learned 1B in a pinch and is actually pretty decent. He has the ability to be moved around the infield late in ballgames to allow the Reds to have their most reliable infield out there to protect a lead.
I have no issues with Rich this season. He is a high contact hitter which helps to balance out this lineup ... and I think he has done a decent job at 1B. HIs range is very pedestrian, so saying he can man 4 positions is a bit misleading. IMO he passes at 2B IMO, is pretty decent at 1B, is merely adequate at 3B, and is horrible at SS.



He's pretty clutch with RISP as we all know. And as much as we like to make fun of "professional at bats", they do mean something (even I'm not sure what), and Aurilia provides them. We have a whole lineup of guys that have "professional at bats" ... to a man the guys are seeing a good amount of pitches ... it makes the pitcher work, gets us to the long-relief guys, makes the fielders stand around, etc.

Clutch? Fleeting. He certainly didn't get it done on the road last year.



Over the course of his tenure in Cincinnati folks on here have blasted the signing. Last year he was signed to a 600K contract and clearly out-performed it, this year he signed for more (1.3M) and will likely under-perform it. But if you look at the cost for his two seasons, for less than 2M you got a pretty serviceable player who produces.
Out of context it might seem irrational. In a vacuum, the RA signing in either year was nothing to get extremely worked up about. However, it wasn't in a vacuum.

His signing was blasted, and rightly so, because of the possibility that he would steal ABs from Lopez ... and he did. It looked like a replay of that this season, however, EE hit so well in ST and has carried it over to the start of the season that he has secured the position.




The other knock was hit attitude. It was a big distraction at the beginning of last season. I think that was more of a clash with Miley than anything. Maybe Miley over-promised playing time? Once Narron took over he appeard to accept his role more. And this year he seems to have a great attitude. We all saw Monday night when Lizard came out of the game and Rich walked down and offered his hand and a pat on the back. Classy thing to do in my opinion. Rich has shown a better attitude, though, I think a bit of that could be contributed to the notion that nobody other than the Reds made a serious play for him this off-season.

GL

membengal
04-26-2006, 01:27 PM
He's now being used as I hoped he would originally be used, he isn't complaining about it, and he's producing. No complaints here.

Just wish Miley had known how to use him, but that's a different discussion. Narron is really impressing me at this point (didn't think I would say that back in about mid-March).

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 03:38 PM
He's a backup and as long as he stays one (not a starter) and doesn't call the press everytime he fails to start ;) I have no qualms with him on the team

RedsManRick
04-26-2006, 03:40 PM
As he's currently being utilized, he's a valuable player. As your everyday 2B/3B getting 600 ABs a year while your .380 OBP guy sits on the bench, he's not.

REDREAD
04-26-2006, 04:57 PM
Really, I don't think Rich ever had an attitude problem last year. A few quotes from him hoping to get more playing time or hoping to get traded to a contender were blown out of proportion.

Let's be honest, is it reasonable to expect a player on the downside of his career, who was just signed for 600k to be all "gung ho" about playing for Cincy last year, especially when DanO probably promised him a lot more playing time then he ended up getting? Cincy was a place for him to keep his career going. It's hard to blame him for wanting to be traded to a contender while he's sitting on the bench on a 5th place team.

kbrake
04-26-2006, 05:07 PM
I think like people have said the only problems with Rich last year were that 1. Felipe should have started at SS out of spring and everyone knew it. 2. The comments he made and the percieved attitude and maybe REDREAD is right and it was blown out of proportion. Its not like people though Aurilia was a Womack and could serve no useful purpose.

OldXOhio
04-26-2006, 06:20 PM
Really, I don't think Rich ever had an attitude problem last year. A few quotes from him hoping to get more playing time or hoping to get traded to a contender were blown out of proportion.

Let's be honest, is it reasonable to expect a player on the downside of his career, who was just signed for 600k to be all "gung ho" about playing for Cincy last year, especially when DanO probably promised him a lot more playing time then he ended up getting? Cincy was a place for him to keep his career going. It's hard to blame him for wanting to be traded to a contender while he's sitting on the bench on a 5th place team.

Yeah, I think some on here expressed their frustration w/ RA not so much with his attitude, but rather with the possibility that he would be taking time away from youngsters like Felipe that were the future of this organization. In that role, having RA in the lineup pointed to everything that was wrong with this organization.

George Foster
04-26-2006, 09:56 PM
Absolutely. A bench player with a bit of pop is the best kind of bench player to have, IMO.

He won the "Silver Bat award" while with the Giants. I like him. I also thinks he demands respects with the players of other teams.

personal note: I'm finally a member of "The Old Red Guard" thank-you for the points, I'll try not to embarrass myself. I hope you respect my opinion.

Marc D
04-26-2006, 11:20 PM
Agree with all who are ok with RA now that he's being used properly.

Versatile bench player with pop in his bat, scrapiness and knowledge of how to win. Some former catcher turned manager is going to get his GM to overpay for RA come the trade deadline. I now have faith our GM will be able to extract his pound of flesh. ;)

2006 RA = 2005 Joe Randa and possibly more.

GridironGrace
04-27-2006, 01:24 AM
What i like about Aurilia is 9 times outta 10 if u need a HIT in a PH or any situation, he'll find a way to get it.

Im loving how he's been used this season. I mean come on guys, i know alot of you dont like him much but aint it great to rest an Edwin, Phillips or Lopez and put in a Veteran who is very capable of filling thier shoes for a day or so? Or even a few weeks if NEED be.

I also think that if he gets HOT, he's gonna land us some bullpen help in the future, and although id hate to lose a Utility player like that, we need some solid bullpen action WORSE and we all know that.

SteelSD
04-27-2006, 03:47 AM
Really, I don't think Rich ever had an attitude problem last year. A few quotes from him hoping to get more playing time or hoping to get traded to a contender were blown out of proportion.

It's impossible to blow Aurilia's comments last season "out of proportion". The guy felt he was a starter, was grumpy about not being a starter, and went so far as to suggest other teams he could help as a starter- and at a position he could no longer play.

I was on record when that signing was made as to how Aurilia could help should he accept a utility backup role and mentor the younger guys. But he never did that because anyone younger was better than he. He just complained about playing time after a better player took away a position he couldn't field and then went on to identify other teams he felt he should be playing for as a starter at a position he couldn't play.


Let's be honest, is it reasonable to expect a player on the downside of his career, who was just signed for 600k to be all "gung ho" about playing for Cincy last year, especially when DanO probably promised him a lot more playing time then he ended up getting? Cincy was a place for him to keep his career going. It's hard to blame him for wanting to be traded to a contender while he's sitting on the bench on a 5th place team.

Yes, it IS reasonable to expect that because no one else wanted him. Even after last season, no one else wanted him. Maybe that was a wakeup call for Aurilia. Maybe that was the indication that he needed to realize that he's a backup guy. But take away his current playing time at 1B and I can all but guarantee that Rich Aurilia is going to complain because he thinks he should be a starter somewhere.

It's much easier to keep an "I want out" guy happy when a team is winning. Problem is that Aurilia- at this point in his career- should simply be happy to have a job regardless of whether or not a team is winning.

Again, maybe he's just feeling like a fortunate guy right now. Maybe he's figured out that he's not the hot commodity he thought he should be last year.

Or maybe he's just willing to not be a complete Milo while the team is winning?

Ron Madden
04-27-2006, 05:38 AM
My main problem with Ritchie last year was the fear of him stealing AB's and PT from Lopez.

O'Brien and Miley seemed to lean towards Ritchie even though Lopez won the SS postion during ST.

Nobody wanted him this off season, the Reds resigned because they were dumb enough to think he was a better option than EE at 3B... That almost worried me to death.

I could go stand at SS or near 1b, 2b or 3b. Dont mean I can field eighther position.

GAC
04-27-2006, 05:54 AM
I think he's an ok guy to have on the team if he's used correctly and thusfar this year I think Narron has been doing a pretty good job of utilizing him.

Exactly. This guy is not even playing every day, and yet has come off the bench and produced for us. He has taken advantage of those times he is in there.

I think he is a solid utility player.... and that is all I've ever said. ;)

It's obvious I wouldn't displace any of the three youngsters for Aurilia (EE, Lopez, Phillips). And while the guy doesn't have the range he may have once had, he does have a glove, and has adapted to 1B.

It will be interesting to see what the numbers he and the Hatteberg "tandem" are producing at 1B this year.

GAC
04-27-2006, 06:02 AM
Nobody wanted him this off season, the Reds resigned because they were dumb enough to think he was a better option than EE at 3B... That almost worried me to death.

That's understandable, but I think they resigned Aurilia not knowing how EE, due to immaturity and consistent play at 3B, was going to perform.

If EE went out there this year and really struggled, then what options did we have?

GAC
04-27-2006, 06:06 AM
Really, I don't think Rich ever had an attitude problem last year. A few quotes from him hoping to get more playing time or hoping to get traded to a contender were blown out of proportion.

Let's be honest, is it reasonable to expect a player on the downside of his career, who was just signed for 600k to be all "gung ho" about playing for Cincy last year, especially when DanO probably promised him a lot more playing time then he ended up getting? Cincy was a place for him to keep his career going. It's hard to blame him for wanting to be traded to a contender while he's sitting on the bench on a 5th place team.

I agree RR. He said a couple things that I didn't really agree with; but I think the Cincy media also did a good job of playing it up too much. I don't think RA is a selfish player. He still feels he can play the game, contribute.... and wanted to show that. And IMO, he has. ;)

Ron Madden
04-27-2006, 06:27 AM
That's understandable, but I think they resigned Aurilia not knowing how EE, due to immaturity and consistent play at 3B, was going to perform.

If EE went out there this year and really struggled, then what options did we have?

Everyone knew Edwin had the range and the glove to play 3rd base, making accurate throws was the main concern.

Most young infielders have problems with wild throws. Most of them settle down and get better.

I'd have rolled the dice and taken my chances with EE.

GAC
04-27-2006, 06:39 AM
Everyone knew Edwin had the range and the glove to play 3rd base, making accurate throws was the main concern.

Most young infielders have problems with wild throws. Most of them settle down and get better.

I'd have rolled the dice and taken my chances with EE.

I agree Ron. And I think the Reds have too. How much playing time has RA at 3B/SS/2B this season?

But he is there when a day off is needed, or if one of these young players goes thru a period of struggle.

But I'm pretty excited and optimistic with this INF, with EE at 3B, Lopez at SS, and Phillips at 2B. They are young though, and we have to show patience with their "growing pains" and mistakes.... more with EE then Lopez and Phillips IMO.

buckeyenut
04-27-2006, 06:59 AM
I agree Ron. And I think the Reds have too. How much playing time has RA at 3B/SS/2B this season?

But he is there when a day off is needed, or if one of these young players goes thru a period of struggle.

But I'm pretty excited and optimistic with this INF, with EE at 3B, Lopez at SS, and Phillips at 2B. They are young though, and we have to show patience with their "growing pains" and mistakes.... more with EE then Lopez and Phillips IMO.

The other nice thing about those three is they all have all star caliber upside both offensively and arguably defensively. Lopez has the tools I think, but may have too far to go to get there defensively, but the other two do. They need a future at 1B, but that is about it. Maybe Votto, maybe an acquisition (Like shealy).

Aurillia is a very nice backup IF, as long as he keeps his mouth shut and plays that role. His constant harping about deserving a starting position last year was what irked me, not anything to do with his skills. I'd be happy paying him 1M/yr for maybe another 2 years to play his current role with this team if his attitude stays in check.

Jpup
04-27-2006, 11:13 AM
He has the ability to play all four infield positions, although I doubt we'll be seeing him at SS since the acquisition of Phillips.

we already have...right?:confused:

Chip R
04-27-2006, 11:56 AM
Really, I don't think Rich ever had an attitude problem last year. A few quotes from him hoping to get more playing time or hoping to get traded to a contender were blown out of proportion.

Let's be honest, is it reasonable to expect a player on the downside of his career, who was just signed for 600k to be all "gung ho" about playing for Cincy last year, especially when DanO probably promised him a lot more playing time then he ended up getting? Cincy was a place for him to keep his career going. It's hard to blame him for wanting to be traded to a contender while he's sitting on the bench on a 5th place team.

Well, I don't think they were blown out of proportion since it seemed like Marty and Narron were about ready to release him on that west coast road trip they had last year because he was complaining so much about playing time. And we all know how much Marty and Narron love Aurilia.

Actually it is more than reasonable for a player who was let go from two teams in the span of two years who was signed on a minor league contract to be at least gung, if not gung ho about playing whenever the manager says he'll play no matter what he's making. You can't blame him for wanting to be traded but nobody wanted him. Not even Dusty wanted him last year and he loves scrappy veterans like Aurilia and had Neffi Perez playing for him in place of Nomar.

BuckU
04-27-2006, 12:39 PM
we already have...right?:confused:

Once, for 8 innings.

My thinking is that once Griffey comes back, anytime Lopez needs a day off Phillips will shift to SS and Freel will get the start at 2B.

WebScorpion
04-27-2006, 05:18 PM
He won the "Silver Bat award" while with the Giants. I like him. I also thinks he demands respects with the players of other teams.

personal note: I'm finally a member of "The Old Red Guard" thank-you for the points, I'll try not to embarrass myself. I hope you respect my opinion.

Yea, he won a Silver Slugger award in 2001...FeLo won it last year. ;) My problem this season is not really with RA himself, (a free agency where the only team to give him an offer was the team he was leaving seems to have cured his ego,) but with the effect some of his usage might have on Edwin Encarnacion. First, I think batting RA in the #4 slot between Griffey and Dunn is a waste. I think EE is better suited to that spot and would benefit from having Dunn's 'protection' behind him...if not EE, then Austin Kearns is a better choice there too. The other thing I don't like is having RA come in as a 'defensive' substitution for EE in the late innings. Granted, RA is probably less likely to commit an error, but he does not have the reaction or range that EE has. My real problem there is that EE will only get better by playing, pulling him can only damage his confidence. By and large though, I agree that RA is an important cog in the 2006 Reds league-leading offense. He's definitely less of a distraction this year and he's a better performer than 90% of the bench players in MLB today. :thumbup:

Fullboat
04-30-2006, 02:10 AM
Everybody is saying that Aurilia took playing time from Lopez,I like to think that Aurilia
was the kick in the ass that Lopez needed to become the starting SS.;)

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 04:19 AM
And I say Lopez hits 30 hrs and drives in 100 if he's the starter opening day ;)

redsrule2500
04-30-2006, 04:28 AM
I agree with you....Aurilla is good in the clutch unlike some other star players we have, and I really think that's important.

GAC
04-30-2006, 07:24 AM
And I say Lopez hits 30 hrs and drives in 100 if he's the starter opening day ;)

No way. ;)

OnBaseMachine
04-30-2006, 08:05 AM
I agree with you....Aurilla is good in the clutch unlike some other star players we have, and I really think that's important.

Who is this star player you are speaking of? I hope it's not Dunn because it has already been proven that he is good in the "clutch".

TOBTTReds
04-30-2006, 12:25 PM
I was a huge doubter when we re-signed him. I think my disgruntleness was bc I was afraid he was going to start 3B, or in the middle infield. I have to admit, I like the way they are usuing him now, and he is coming through when we need him.

pedro
04-30-2006, 01:02 PM
I agree with you....Aurilla is good in the clutch unlike some other star players we have, and I really think that's important.

The guy has had some good luck for the last year with RISP and now everyone thinks he somehow has the magic clutch bean in his pocket. Not to knock on RA but clutch is largely a mirage. That stuff tends to regress towards the mean over time. If you look at RA 3 year splits from 2003-2005 his line with RISP was .277/.346/.425/.771 over 332 AB's, which is hardly stellar.

If you break it down by year it's even more evident there isn't a pattern that proves RA is clutch.

2003 - 122 AB's .254/.324/.410/.734
2004- 102 AB's .235/.325/.284/.609
2005- 108 AB's .343/.393/.574/.967

Granted his numbers with RISP over the same period were better than his numbers overall (.269/.326/.404/.730 1330 ab's) but that really says more about the overall weakness of RA's game over that peiod than it does anything about "clutch".

There are a few things that are positioning themselves IMO to help make RA successful right now. 1) GABP 2) The Reds offense in general 3) Proper utililization by Narron

westofyou
04-30-2006, 01:05 PM
Originally Posted by redsrule2500
I agree with you....Aurilla is good in the clutch unlike some other star players we have, and I really think that's important.

Yeah he was a beauty yesterday eh? GIDP, next at bat a 1st pitch out, then a useless solo HR and another out. ;)

BTW Adam Dunn saw 14 pitches in his 1st 2 ab's, that's 14% of Pettit's pitches in 2 ab's... that's the type of stuff that falls through the cracks, but really helsp the team.

It takes a village.

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 04:06 PM
No way. ;)
Yes way. :D

OldXOhio
04-30-2006, 08:06 PM
then a useless solo HR and another out.



Perhaps I'm missing your attempt at humor, but how exactly was a solo shot amidst only a two run lead useless?

Marc D
04-30-2006, 09:26 PM
Perhaps I'm missing your attempt at humor, but how exactly was a solo shot amidst only a two run lead useless?

I might be wrong but I think he was having some fun with the mantra of certain Dunn bashers. IE that he hits "meaningless" HR's.

GAC
04-30-2006, 09:27 PM
Yes way. :D

Well....he's starting every day, so we'll see.

An Adam Dunn in the #2 spot..... yes.

But not a Lopez.

GAC
04-30-2006, 09:29 PM
Yeah he was a beauty yesterday eh? GIDP, next at bat a 1st pitch out, then a useless solo HR and another out. ;)

a useless solo HR? I sincerely hope you are just joking? ;)

Maybe we should tell Rich to lay off those, and save them for when they are more meaningful.

Are Dunn's solo shots deemed useless? Or is it the fault of the people ahead of him for not getting on base? Maybe we should fault Lopez for going 0 fer 5 yesterday and 4 LOB?

Isn't that like saying that a guy who gets a walk or hit, to get on base, is useless if he doesn't score?