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View Full Version : Who could we get for Felipe?



Je Russell
04-26-2006, 10:24 PM
I love Felipe and think he is the real deal at shortstop. But with him having Boras as an agent, I think we will eventually have to deal him. I would see if Krivsky could get a major league ready pitcher such as Arroyo/Dave Bush and a top notch high ceiling prospect? I know Phillips has only played well for a couple of weeks but he could slide over to shortstop.

RedsManRick
04-26-2006, 10:33 PM
Felipe for Liriano.... Get it done Krivsky!!! :thumbup:

jredmo2
04-26-2006, 10:34 PM
I sure hope not, he's my favorite player.

Joseph
04-26-2006, 10:36 PM
I don't think we need to look into this unless Boras and co have given an outrageous price. Based on the arbitration numbers, I don't think there is any degree of them being unrealistic.

Mitri
04-26-2006, 10:38 PM
He'd get a pretty nice return but the Reds better be getting back some middle infield talent and ML-ready pitching.

George Foster
04-26-2006, 10:42 PM
It's hard to win a division without a "real shortstop." He has the potential to hit as good as Barry L. He is a notch lower defensively than Barry, but he is still pretty good. He plays everyday. A pitcher plays once every five days. It's A LOT easier to find and or replace outfielders. I say trade Kearns, he's a lot easier to replace.

RedsBaron
04-26-2006, 10:45 PM
We would have to get a lot before I would want to trade Felipe.

6-4-3
04-26-2006, 10:49 PM
Felipe doesn't need to be going anywhere. As of now, I believe options are being explored regarding Larue, Freel, and Kearns. However, I feel Krivsky won't make a deal, just "to be making one". As the season grows on, it'll give everyone a better chance to evaluate if a move would benefit this club.

CTA513
04-26-2006, 10:52 PM
If they can pay Dunn $7-9 million a year, then Im sure they can afford to keep Lopez.

UC_Ken
04-26-2006, 11:00 PM
This team may be good enough to make a run to the playoffs this year but are still a couple years away from being world championship contenders. We're not good enough to start trading away building blocks like Felipe. We need to get him to sign now before his value goes up. The only players I would consider trading are players with quality replacements ready and there is no replacement for Felipe. For what it's worth I see Phillips as a Pokey Reese-type player so I don't want to count on him to be our SS.

redsmetz
04-26-2006, 11:02 PM
If they can pay Dunn $7-9 million a year, then Im sure they can afford to keep Lopez.

Frankly, I think the Reds have had some luck with Boros. I can't recall who else has used him, but I recall some time back that we had a couple of players who were with Boros. Was it Concepcion?

MWM
04-26-2006, 11:03 PM
Actually, I think Felipe might be the guy to trade. But there's absolutely nothing in the cupboard for shortstop and we'd have to find an adequate replacement. A glove-first, offense second guy would suffice if it landed us a legitimate #1 or #2.

Marc D
04-26-2006, 11:08 PM
What say we get what we can for Phillips at his current crazy numbers, get an all glove so-so hit vacum to play SS and move FeLo to 2B?

KronoRed
04-26-2006, 11:13 PM
/\ Good idea, but since SS is a money spot I doubt he moves.

Lopez would bring the most in any trade, more then even Dunn.

indyred
04-27-2006, 12:05 AM
Felipe for Liriano.... Get it done Krivsky!!! :thumbup:
The Twins are even cheaper than the Reds and I think Boras doesn't mix well with them either.......I highly doubt they would want to pay him....... If he does get moved..it will be to one of the bigger market teams........

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2006, 12:06 AM
We would have to get a lot before I would want to trade Felipe.

Agreed.

Felipe Lopez is the best offensive SS in the National League and is among the best in major league baseball. To trade him for anything less than a major league No.1 starter or top pitching prospect(Liriano or Verlander) at this point would be foolish, in my opinion. I remember Felipe making a comment last year that he loves playing in Cincinnati and he wouldn't mind playing his whole career here. Now does that mean he will not ask for an outrageous contract? No. Is it encouraging? I think so.

I would offer Felipe a 4-year deal worth about 8 or 9 million dollars a year and see if he bites. I think he is worth it. The lone knock on Felipe has been his defense, and IMO his defense has been better this year. It seems to me that he is getting to more balls this year, and he also looks better turning the double play. Edwin Encarnacion's presence at 3B could be what's making him a better SS, as it allows Felipe focus more on the balls hit to his left.

In summary, Felipe is a guy I hope the Reds keep around for a while. Krivsky needs to build this team around guys like Lopez, Eddie Encarnacion, and Adam Dunn, and hope that the young pitchers on the farm can develop and help this organization win some games.

roby
04-27-2006, 12:34 AM
I am hoping that the new ownership regime really does mean what they say when they talk about putting a winner on the field year in and year out. If they are sincere, and they sure seem to be, the old thinking of trading every player that is any good before he gets expensive will be a thing of the past. It will be hard for us Reds fans who are used to bottom feeding and unloading value for quantity to change our thinking...but I believe things are different now...and instead of thinking about trading truly excellent players like Felipe, we can start to think about who we want to add to Felipe, Dunn, Kearns, Phillips, Freel, Encarnacion, Harang, Arroyo, Claussen, Coffey etc.

MattyHo4Life
04-27-2006, 09:09 AM
Frankly, I think the Reds have had some luck with Boros. I can't recall who else has used him, but I recall some time back that we had a couple of players who were with Boros. Was it Concepcion?

Don't count on getting a deal from Boras. The Cardinals have had some luck with Boras also, but they still had to trade Drew to Atlanta before he became a Free Agent since Boras was his agent. Boras get as much as he can for his clients, and he will be able to get a lot for Lopez since he is a shortstop. Look at the contract that Boston gave Renteria, and that was coming off a not so good season. When will Lopez become a Free Agent anyways?

flyer85
04-27-2006, 09:30 AM
If they can pay Dunn $7-9 million a year, then Im sure they can afford to keep Lopez.affording has nothing to do with it, Boras and taking his clients to free agency does.

I think they will be forced into trading Felipe at some point but now is not the time.

alexad
04-27-2006, 09:37 AM
Why are we even talking about this? Lopez is establishing himself as the next great Reds shortstop.

The way to improve this team is by what is happening right now. Getting a player from here and there for little return.

Developing of young talent. I think this is happening with scouts being spotted around the country with a Reds hat on.

Work to bring FA to Cincinnati.

We can not trade every player we think is great to get pitching. We were very lucky to get BA for Pena. But Pena was still unproven and worth the gamble to trading for pitching.

Lopez is not replaceable at this point. YOU do not trade a player who is going to help you for many many years. Lopez fits into the category.

Freel is a player who will hep for the next 2-3 years. He is the type of player you trade. (not saying to trade him)

Sean Casey fit into the category of trading him because he could help the next couple of years, but he was not going to be along term. (I love Sean Casey and hated to see him traded, but understand the thinking. Too bad he was not traded for a real starting pitcher).

Trading Lopez would be a tremendous mistake.

Trading EE, Kearns and whoever to the Marlins would be a mistake. That would be taking two productive bats, young bats, for a pitcher who goes every 5 days. I do not see the logic in this.

2001MUgrad
04-27-2006, 10:50 AM
There has to be a market for him first. The main player that drives the market up are the Yankees. They are set at SS for a while. Boras is more known for being hard nosed with draftees I think. I'd trade Dunn way before I'd even think about trading Lopez. I think its very important to the future of the Reds for them to keep the left side of the Infield in tact. They are both young and neither have year to reach their potential and at that one is a star and the other will be in the next year or so.

Krusty
04-27-2006, 11:28 AM
Felipe is our shortstop for the next 10 years. New ownership has said they will spend the money. Keeping Felipe a Red down the road would be a start.

westofyou
04-27-2006, 11:30 AM
Felipe is our shortstop for the next 10 years.
I'll take that bet, in fact I'll bet in 3 years he's playing another position.

membengal
04-27-2006, 11:30 AM
Felipe for Liriano.... Get it done Krivsky!!! :thumbup:

Yes, I would be just fine with that.

Can't Phillips play some SS?

Krusty
04-27-2006, 11:31 AM
I'll take that bet, in fact I'll bet in 3 years he's playing another position.

There is no reason why he can't improve defensively. Would you move Encarncion to another position?

Krusty
04-27-2006, 11:32 AM
Yes, I would be just fine with that.

Can't Phillips play some SS?

I think the Twins consider Liriano untouchable.

membengal
04-27-2006, 11:37 AM
I think the Twins consider Liriano untouchable.

Don't know until you ask. Twins also can't hit their way out of a wet paper sack, so they may have to give a little to address that part of their team. Ya never know...

Caveat Emperor
04-27-2006, 12:09 PM
affording has nothing to do with it, Boras and taking his clients to free agency does.

I think they will be forced into trading Felipe at some point but now is not the time.

Scott Boras is a shark of an agent, but he doesn't make decisions for his clients. The final decision to do anything -- deal, no deal, free agency -- all rests with the client. He can't force a client to opt for Free Agency if they're satisfied with thier current situation and believe the money being offered them is fair. To misquote Ted DiBiasi: Even a Boras client has their price.

I maintain Lopez would be a prime candidate to sign to a long-term deal, should the Reds choose. He's already been through one catastrophic injury in his career, and he has to be acutely aware of the fact that the next bad slide on a stolen base or bad plant on a throw could end his career for good. Never underestimate the persuasive value of being financially secure at age 26.

If the Reds are going to trade Lopez, it should be for the reason woy articulated: that Lopez's defensive range probably makes him more suited to playing 2nd base than shortstop anyway. If the Reds can get shortstop value for him now, before that becomes a reality, they should strongly consider moving him to maximize his return to the team. If Lopez posts another offensive season like he did last year, he should be able to bring in a monster return of either top-flight prospects or a ML-ready #2 starter and a prospect or two.

Move Lopez because it makes sense for the ballclub and makes the ballclub better in the longrun due to the deal you get -- not because you don't want to open the wallet to pay him.

gonelong
04-27-2006, 01:11 PM
There is no reason why he can't improve defensively. Would you move Encarncion to another position?

Range isn't one of the defensive skills that tends to improve with repetition or experience. EE has range to burn, Lopez has adequate range.

Lopez is a future 2B, EE will remain at 3B - the writting is on the wall.

GL

Reds1
04-27-2006, 01:18 PM
Felipe for Liriano.... Get it done Krivsky!!! :thumbup:

This is correct. This is about the only way you can pull trigger. I'm still hopeful next year is the year and I think we can get FeLo at a decent price. Now, down the rode we might have to trade, but I still feel this team is 2 starters and 2 RP from a solid chance and Felo is a big part of that. Hopefully Homer can be 1 of those 2 pitchers. We'll see, but I wouldn't expect to see anything done on this yet.

Matt700wlw
04-27-2006, 01:49 PM
I feel safe saying Lopez isn't going anywhere.

PickOff
04-27-2006, 02:00 PM
I'd be fine trading Felipe. I think he's a very good player and I'd be happy to keep him as well, but with Encarnacion stepping up, and Phillips and Freel around, if Krivsky could get an age comparable legit 2/3 guy I say fire away. Lopez is an average defensive SS at best, and history shows that at his age he should be in his prime defensively, so I don't see improvement.

smith288
04-27-2006, 02:02 PM
What can we get for FeLo?

I say we can get .300 avg, 15-25 hr and 75-90 rbi.

I'd rather trade Freel.

KronoRed
04-27-2006, 05:32 PM
I'll take that bet, in fact I'll bet in 3 years he's playing another position.
For another team.

The Reds aren't going to have all stars at every spot, Krivo will spend but he won't try and go yankees on us.

flyer85
04-27-2006, 05:33 PM
I'll take that bet, in fact I'll bet in 3 years he's playing another position.and with another team.

flyer85
04-27-2006, 05:37 PM
Scott Boras is a shark of an agent, but he doesn't make decisions for his clients. The final decision to do anything -- deal, no deal, free agency -- all rests with the client. He can't force a client to opt for Free Agency if they're satisfied with thier current situation and believe the money being offered them is fair. To misquote Ted DiBiasi: Even a Boras client has their price.and that price is to be overpaid. When players sign up with Boras it is for one reason ... get as much green as possible, and he does a terrific job of getting it for his clients. In the case of a small market team it means he will be taking said player to free agency because there will be no discounts. If the player isn't chasing the green then there is no reason to have Boras as an agent.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2006, 01:56 PM
It's hard to win a division without a "real shortstop." He has the potential to hit as good as Barry L. He is a notch lower defensively than Barry, but he is still pretty good. He plays everyday. A pitcher plays once every five days. It's A LOT easier to find and or replace outfielders. I say trade Kearns, he's a lot easier to replace.


Biggest understatement ever.

While I'm a huge proponent of moving Phillips over to SS since I imagine he would be at worst a minor upgrade defensively over Lopez, I would love to see use ship Lopez to the A's for Bobby Crosby. Upgrade defensively, and there honestly might not be any downgrade offensively.

At this point in time, stay with the status quo. Lopez's defensive has been acceptable at best right now, so until it becomes a more prominent issue, we can deal.

Sabo Fan
04-28-2006, 02:09 PM
Frankly, I think the Reds have had some luck with Boros. I can't recall who else has used him, but I recall some time back that we had a couple of players who were with Boros. Was it Concepcion?

Didn't Sardinha and Espinosa have Boras as their agent when they were drafted by JimBo? I thought that was why they supposedly slid in the draft and Bowden made a big deal about being able to get these superstars-in-waiting where he did. Could be wrong about that though.

I say lock up FeLo through his age 29 season and then either let him walk when his price skyrockets after that and take the draft picks or deal him at the deadline that year. The Reds control him for another year at least I believe and offering him a three year deal now probably won't break the bank.

Newman4
04-28-2006, 02:35 PM
Just curious, why do you guys think Felipe sucks defensively? I looked up his ZR and a few other stats from ESPN and he looks kinda middle-of-the-pack, albeit mediocre, but not terrible. In fact, he seems to have a great arm. Why the hate?

Caveat Emperor
04-28-2006, 02:45 PM
Just curious, why do you guys think Felipe sucks defensively? I looked up his ZR and a few other stats from ESPN and he looks kinda middle-of-the-pack, albeit mediocre, but not terrible. In fact, he seems to have a great arm. Why the hate?

"Sucks" is a strong word.

I don't think anyone thinks he "sucks" in the Tony Womack sense of the word -- but there's definately an understanding that Felipe is far from what you'd term a "plus" defender at short.

Newman4
04-28-2006, 02:50 PM
"Sucks" is a strong word.

I don't think anyone thinks he "sucks" in the Tony Womack sense of the word -- but there's definately an understanding that Felipe is far from what you'd term a "plus" defender at short.

Yeah, true. I use the word "sucks" a lot. FeLo isn't a "plus" defender, but adequate IMO.

westofyou
04-28-2006, 02:55 PM
"Sucks" is a strong word.

I don't think anyone thinks he "sucks" in the Tony Womack sense of the word -- but there's definately an understanding that Felipe is far from what you'd term a "plus" defender at short.
Three reasons why Felipe will never be a *plus* defender.

Roy McMillian
Davey Concepciion
Barry Larkin

He just doesn't have the range in his mid 20's of an elite SS, and it essentially gets worse, not better with age and muscle buildup. Currently it's not a problem that is on the top of the list, 2 years out from this season and it's an issue that should be looked at.

Good teams have plans that look outwards with the current roster in mind, not just the ML system, that's a quality of the Reds that has been missinmg sinc ethe strike, it's been all shoot from the hip, bull and bear market schitzoprenia.