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View Full Version : Im tired of Barry Bonds!!!!!



WVPacman
04-27-2006, 12:25 AM
Am I the only one on this board that is SICK of hearing about Barry Bonds?? You can't turn it on any sports channels without hearing about Bonds and his believed steriods use and the HR chase after Babe Ruth.Im sick of his antics on tv and smart mouthed talk when he is asked a question.Everytime he hits a hr he puts his finger to his mouth like hes saying be quiet and take that naysayers.

This guy is a joke!!!!!

Wheelhouse
04-27-2006, 01:04 AM
Did you hear the heroic music BBTN played when reflecting on Bonds' 73 hr season?

WVPacman
04-27-2006, 01:09 AM
Did you hear the heroic music BBTN played when reflecting on Bonds' 73 hr season?


:laugh: no I did'nt watch BBTN tonight!! What was it Oh hail to the steroid king??:laugh:

RedsMan3203
04-27-2006, 01:12 AM
:beerme:

Sooner he gets out of the game the better.

WVPacman
04-27-2006, 01:18 AM
:beerme:

Sooner he gets out of the game the better.



Exactly and if he gets to go to the HOF then Pete Rose should be able to get elected to.:beerme:

redsfanfalcon
04-27-2006, 07:34 AM
I am so tired of the Chasing Ruth thing on the ESPN bottom line, and the Bonds on Bonds TV show.

RedFanAlways1966
04-27-2006, 07:57 AM
Such is life in the American media. If you are a bad person or do something wrong... then you get your own TV show and are "the talk" in the American media.

Barry Bonds... always been a jerk to the media and the public. Steroids 101. Adulterer and threatener of the mistress.

Martha Stewart... the media loved the day she was released from jail so they could interview her w/out going through the prison security first. Gets her own Apprentice show after jail. Always known as a toughie to work for or be around.

Etc, etc. And guess what? The media would not do it if the public did not eat it up. So I guess we can blame the media and our society. As there are many of us who get sick of seeing "these types", the are just as many (if not more) that eat it up.

RedLegSuperStar
04-27-2006, 08:15 AM
What irritates me is that Bonds only wants to pass Ruth.. not Aaron. But what he should relize is that Ruth will always be the best baseball player to grace this game and Bonds will just be someone who had to enhance his game to achieve his so called "greatness." I cringe at hearing his sqeaky voice and fear turning on ESPN to see Bonds.

Bonds is being investigated by congress for perjury.. Hello.. Why are we celebrating his chase?

alexad
04-27-2006, 08:16 AM
I think it is great. Bonds has not been proven guililty of anything. He is chasing a record no one thought would be broken. He has not tested positive for steroids so how can anyone say he is cheating.

It has been proven that if you use you will get caught. There was a minor league player caught this week and he is sitting out for 50 games. It proves testing really works.

I have to say Bonds is no angel with the Media, but a few years ago when the Giants were in town at the old stadium, we had seats down the right field line in row one.

A couple of drunks kept yelling at Bonds to turn around so they could get a pitcture of his ^&%&^$ face. Bonds did not turn around and we could tell he heard what the guys were saying. My son who was 5 at the time could not understand why those men were yelling at such a great player as Barry Bonds.

The next inning I told my son to yell over to Mr. Bonds and say he was a great player and thanks for playing on a Sunday so he could see him.

It took two innings of him telling Bonds the same thing (all this while the two idiots kept yelling at him), but Bonds did turn (he was about 40 feet away) looked at my son, smiled, gave him a thumbs up and said "thanks kid"

My kid has been a Barry Bonds fan since and three years later still talks about Bonds talking to him.

He become an Adam Dunn fan that day also. Dunn hit two homeruns that day.

So Barry is not all that bad. I was even impressed that he would take notice of a 5 year old kid in the stands.

I say give him a break. He is one of the best players of all time and I have had the chance to see it happen.

RedFanAlways1966
04-27-2006, 08:25 AM
It has been proven that if you use you will get caught.

Really?

Don't give this information to the BALCO-type labs in the world who work hard everyday to make drugs that cannot be detected. And then when they can be detected, they move on to the next undetectable drug project. Marion Jones (never failed a test) and many others wouldn't like that!

Didn't Gary Sheffield admit to "unknowingly" using some "undetectables" while hangin' with Barry? Has Gary ever failed a test?

BALCO-types like this way of thinking and laugh all the way to the bank.... until the FEDS come a-knockin'.

alexad
04-27-2006, 08:25 AM
What irritates me is that Bonds only wants to pass Ruth.. not Aaron. But what he should relize is that Ruth will always be the best baseball player to grace this game and Bonds will just be someone who had to enhance his game to achieve his so called "greatness." I cringe at hearing his sqeaky voice and fear turning on ESPN to see Bonds.

Bonds is being investigated by congress for perjury.. Hello.. Why are we celebrating his chase?


First of all Bonds is being investigated. That does not mean he is guilty. Congress investigated just about everyone who testified, but we did not and will not hear about it. McGwire was investigated. Sosa was also.

Bonds feels this is a racial thing. Is is right about that ? I do not know and I really do not think so. I look at Bonds as a baseball player, just like I do with any other player. Remember Aaron was bashed and threatened the whole time he was chasing Ruth for being African American.

Bonds has his eyes set on Ruth because he is next in line to pass. There is pressure on him and that is expected.

I have read that he does not want to pass Aaron because he feels he broke the record Ruth held and he does not want to take anything away from Aaron and his legacy because of how he was treated during his chase. I think it would be more of a respect for Aaron than anything else.

Also Ruth was not a great person. He drank, smoked, chased women and did all the wrong things off the field, but it appears that is okay?

Ruth was a great player and I wish I would have been alive to see him play.

Bonds is going to continue to hit homeruns and break Ruth's record. If he decides to go after Aaron, more power to him. We may never see this again.

Pete's record is not even close to being challenged. After Bonds who could even come close to 600 homeruns let alone 700 +. No pitcher is going to have an ERA under 1.00 or come close to Gibson.

No pitcher is going to strike out 500 hitters like Carlton or Ryan did.

No pitcher is going to win 30 games. Bob Welsh got 27 one year and Ron Gidry had 26 ro 27.

The game has changed so much that what we are seeing might be the last chance at history for a very long long long time.

I say enjoy it, witness it, talk about it 40 years from now.

Until Bonds is proven guilty of anything, I am rooting for him to hit a homerun and to continue to build the totals.

alexad
04-27-2006, 08:30 AM
Really?

Don't give this information to the BALCO-type labs in the world who work hard everyday to make drugs that cannot be detected. And then when they can be detected, they move on to the next undetectable drug project. Marion Jones (never failed a test) and many others wouldn't like that!

Didn't Gary Sheffield admit to "unknowingly" using some "undetectables" while hangin' with Barry? Has Gary ever failed a test?

BALCO-types like this way of thinking and laugh all the way to the bank.... until the FEDS come a-knockin'.

If a player is using a drug that the test covers and is considered illegal, it will be discovered.

The so called Creams that Bonds and Shef used were not covered in the test. Is that the fault of the taker if in fact it did happen.

If baseball wants to catch someone doing wrong, they have to come up with a system of checks and balance to determine it.

They can not say we are testing for steriods, but we can not catch them all. If you want to ban something, have a full proof plan to establish that goal.

It appears baseball, congress and whoever just want to run around looking important and not be at fault for allowing something that they have total control over regarding how to make it work.

Again, Bonds should not be ripped for something he has not been proven to be involved with. That my friend is how American works.

What are we saying if a person is stated to be guilty when he has not been proven to be guilty.

smith288
04-27-2006, 08:54 AM
Sweet... a Barry Bonds apologist. *puke*

redsmetz
04-27-2006, 09:32 AM
I concur with Alexad. Bonds is no angel, but there's no question that through his career, he's been a tremendous ballplayer. Ted Williams was no lover of the media and wasn't exactly fond of the Bosox fans, but there was no question he was a great ballplayer.

With regards to steroids, I'm not sure baseball is on the right track. It's clear there is a problem as the performance enhancing drugs have made some records nearly meaningless. And yet baseball ate up the home run chases between McGuire and Sosa, and subsequently Bonds. Why? Because MLB screwed up royally and destroyed a baseball season and everyone hated the game because of it. Now's its proving to be a Pandora's box.

Bonds won't be the first player to have hung on for some record or another or played past his prime (e.g. Willie Mays) and he won't be the last. And he won't be the last player to be nasty to people or the media, etc.

Jpup
04-27-2006, 09:35 AM
I am so tired of the Chasing Ruth thing on the ESPN bottom line, and the Bonds on Bonds TV show.

turn the channel.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 09:36 AM
He has not tested positive for steroids so how can anyone say he is cheating.

Yeah, and aside from a few egghead astronauts, no one's ever been on the moon either, so I guess I can assume it never happened.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 09:43 AM
Again, Bonds should not be ripped for something he has not been proven to be involved with. That my friend is how American works.

No, actually, it's not. You're confusing the judicial standard of justice with the court of public opinion. The two do not--and never have--shared equal burdens of proof. One does not have to be "proven" guilty in a Court of law for that person to be viewed as guilty due to overwhelming circumstantial evidence. Such is the case with Bonds. The books that have come out recently detailing his steroid use and drug regimen are meticulously researched and documented. It leaves no doubt that Bonds juiced up and juiced often between 1998 and 2003.

The question of whether or not Bonds used steroids is not really in dispute at this point. The question is what baseball willd o about it, and that topic has been rehashed numerous times in other threads on this board.

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2006, 09:44 AM
Yeah, and aside from a few egghead astronauts, no one's ever been on the moon either, so I guess I can assume it never happened.

And I've never seen my mom and dad have sex, so that obviously didn't happen either. ;)

Alexad, if Bonds didn't use steroids then please explain why he never hit more than 46 home runs in a season until 2000 when he turned 36 years old and started hitting 49, 73, 46, 45, 45? How come his career AB/HR rate doubled from a HR per every 16 atbats to HR/8 atbats after 1999? Sorry, but normal 35 years old don't do that.

BuckeyeRedleg
04-27-2006, 09:44 AM
If I were Bonds and everybody hated me I would stick it to everyone by calling Billy Beane up and offering my services for free (or the major league minmum) for the next 5 years and DH and finish my career with 900+ bombs and who knows, maybe win a ring.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 09:47 AM
I concur with Alexad. Bonds is no angel, but there's no question that through his career, he's been a tremendous ballplayer. Ted Williams was no lover of the media and wasn't exactly fond of the Bosox fans, but there was no question he was a great ballplayer.

Unquestionably, Bonds is one of the greatest ballplayers to play the game. Long before he began popping roids, he was a surefire HoFer, there's really little doubt about that.

However, Bonds has an aloofness and surliness about him that has been exponentially magnified because he's playing the game at a time when the media spotlight is considerably greater than it has ever been. The backlash against Bonds isn't all that unexpected, seeing as how much focus the media has been placing on his accomplishments and drug usage. In much the same way that people argue that statistics from different eras of baseball can't be compared, neither can the effects of the media on the players and the game. ESPN has practically become the Barry Bonds Network, and that's something that was inconceivable in the days of Cobb and Williams.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 09:49 AM
And I've never seen my mom and dad have sex, so that obviously didn't happen either. ;)

Alexad, if Bonds didn't use steroids then please explain why he never hit more than 46 home runs in a season until 2000 when he turned 36 years old and started hitting 49, 73, 46, 45, 45? How come his career AB/HR rate doubled from a HR per every 16 atbats to HR/8 atbats after 1999? Sorry, but normal 35 years old don't do that.

You don't even have to get *that* complicated with your analysis. Just pull out your old baseball card collection and find your Barry Bonds cards from about 9-10 years ago.

redsfanfalcon
04-27-2006, 09:50 AM
turn the channel.
Sorry, forgive me for being a baseball fan, and therefore I watch ESPN. I just have to put up with it, even though I don't like it!

2001MUgrad
04-27-2006, 09:51 AM
I think it sucks that he will probably pass the Babe within the next week.

I find it odd that he didn't hit a HR for the longest time and now he has hit 3 in about 10 AB's. Maybe he started the roids back in time to pass Ruth and then retire before MLB has a chance to test him. Or, Maybe there is something new out there that he is using.

I wish MLB would have investigated him this time last year so that they could have suspended him for life and all would be well.

Chip R
04-27-2006, 09:54 AM
I think it sucks that he will probably pass the Babe within the next week.


Does that make Ruth any less of a ballplayer? Does it change his impact on the game? Is it going to lessen your view of the Babe in your or anyone else's mind?

registerthis
04-27-2006, 09:55 AM
I wish MLB would have investigated him this time last year so that they could have suspended him for life and all would be well.

He was - and is - a cash cow for MLB. They had no motivation to investigate him. Ed Kleese wrote a great piece in his blog about this--essentially, if Bud Selig decides to suspend Bonds, he would have so suspend himself as well. Not bloody likely to happen.

Jpup
04-27-2006, 09:55 AM
Sorry, forgive me for being a baseball fan, and therefore I watch ESPN. I just have to put up with it, even though I don't like it!

no you don't. for 79.99 you can watch every game, every day without even turning your TV to ESPN. you can watch the highlights on mlb.com for free.

Jpup
04-27-2006, 09:58 AM
I think it sucks that he will probably pass the Babe within the next week.

I find it odd that he didn't hit a HR for the longest time and now he has hit 3 in about 10 AB's. Maybe he started the roids back in time to pass Ruth and then retire before MLB has a chance to test him. Or, Maybe there is something new out there that he is using.

I wish MLB would have investigated him this time last year so that they could have suspended him for life and all would be well.

because no one else has hit 3 HRs in 10 ABs. Soriano hit 3 in one game the other day. :bang:

if Barry Bonds is on steriods right now, he is a bigger idiot than all you think. no way he would be in that much pain if he was on the juice.

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2006, 10:09 AM
http://www.rbiscardshop.com/1991/Leaf/preview.jpg

http://i.eurosport.com/2006/04/23/272295-1008394-458-238.jpg

westofyou
04-27-2006, 10:12 AM
http://images.usatoday.com/_Photos1/2002-07-05-williams2.jpg

http://www.famousfoto.com/B103.JPG

redsfanfalcon
04-27-2006, 10:16 AM
no you don't. for 79.99 you can watch every game, every day without even turning your TV to ESPN. you can watch the highlights on mlb.com for free.
Why pay 79.99 when you already pay a cable bill, unless you want out of market games? He obviously isn't on the juice now, but time will tell if he was on it. There still should be a big fat asterisk next to his name. Babe Ruth was a far superior player than Barry Bonds. Yeah, Bonds ran more, but Ruth also pitched. Ruth obviously wasn't on anything but beer and cigars.

westofyou
04-27-2006, 10:20 AM
Ruth obviously wasn't on anything but beer and cigars.

Really? remember this was the era that pot was legal, coke was in many products, Bayer invented heroin and all sorts of drugs and stuff were commonly being used by housewives and regular people day in a day out.

We really don't know what Ruth was doing (aside from having sex all night)

redsmetz
04-27-2006, 10:27 AM
http://www.rbiscardshop.com/1991/Leaf/preview.jpg

http://i.eurosport.com/2006/04/23/272295-1008394-458-238.jpg

So look at a picture of a young Davie Concepcion and the 40 year old player. That's generally true of most any player (if the possible exception of Eric Davis...)

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
So look at a picture of a young Davie Concepcion and the 40 year old player. That's generally true of most any player (if the possible exception of Eric Davis...)

No doubt that young add players add muscle and weight between the ages of 20 and 35 or whatever. However, I've seen quotes from bodybuilders who have said that it's almost impossible to add as much muscle as Bonds did after the age of 35.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 10:31 AM
So look at a picture of a young Davie Concepcion and the 40 year old player. That's generally true of most any player (if the possible exception of Eric Davis...)

I'm not looking at the gut, I'm looking at the head. Barry's blew up like a balloon.

redsfanfalcon
04-27-2006, 10:35 AM
Really? remember this was the era that pot was legal, coke was in many products, Bayer invented heroin and all sorts of drugs and stuff were commonly being used by housewives and regular people day in a day out.

We really don't know what Ruth was doing (aside from having sex all night)

The point I am trying to make is, whatever he was doing, it wasn't performance enhancing.

Jpup
04-27-2006, 10:37 AM
The point I am trying to make is, whatever he was doing, it wasn't performance enhancing.

you failed to make your point. we don't know what he was doing, if anything.

westofyou
04-27-2006, 10:39 AM
I'm not looking at the gut, I'm looking at the head. Barry's blew up like a balloon.
I've seen many 40 year olds with heads way bigger than their heads were...the head is the first part of your body to retain weight, then downward.

macro
04-27-2006, 10:39 AM
It has been proven that if you use you will get caught. There was a minor league player caught this week and he is sitting out for 50 games. It proves testing really works.


If a player is using a drug that the test covers and is considered illegal, it will be discovered.

The so called Creams that Bonds and Shef used were not covered in the test. Is that the fault of the taker if in fact it did happen.

If baseball wants to catch someone doing wrong, they have to come up with a system of checks and balance to determine it.

They can not say we are testing for steriods, but we can not catch them all. If you want to ban something, have a full proof plan to establish that goal.

Okay, so which is it? Do the tests work or not? First you state emphatically that "if you use you will get caught". Then you make the argument that since MLB isn't smart enough to catch him, that it's not his fault, and he must be innocent.

Crash Davis
04-27-2006, 10:52 AM
turn the channel.

Please point us in the direction of the other baseball shows on TV.

Our options are quite limited.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 11:01 AM
I've seen many 40 year olds with heads way bigger than their heads were...the head is the first part of your body to retain weight, then downward.

Bonds' weight gain was about as natural as the muscles of the Hungarian weightlifter in the All-Drug Olympics.

http://www.physicalenhancement.com/images/drugoly.jpg

registerthis
04-27-2006, 11:02 AM
Okay, so which is it? Do the tests work or not? First you state emphatically that "if you use you will get caught". Then you make the argument that since MLB isn't smart enough to catch him, that it's not his fault, and he must be innocent.

Sounds remarkably like the "His face ran into my outstretched fist" argument.

westofyou
04-27-2006, 11:08 AM
Bonds' weight gain was about as natural as the muscles of the Hungarian weightlifter in the All-Drug Olympics.

http://www.physicalenhancement.com/images/drugoly.jpg
So you say that even if he didn't do steroids he'd look like he did in the 80's?

Call me when you hit 30 and then 40 and we'll cover that topic again.

BTW I'm not saying he didn't juice, but I'll say that using his pix from the 80's is downright funny when introducing evidence.

OnBaseMachine
04-27-2006, 11:11 AM
Bonds 1997

http://www.varonchiropractic.com/images/barry5.jpg

westofyou
04-27-2006, 11:17 AM
Bonds 1997

http://www.varonchiropractic.com/images/barry5.jpg
Photos taken from diffrent angles, different lighting , different clothes... it's all a crapshoot.

Like I said, that's weak evidence, which the argument hinges on at this point, focus on the strengths of the arguments.

If we were to go to the tape, then the tape would be the Giants medical records for his physicals, plus if you love the photos there has to be a whole gallery of Bonds head shots for the past 13 years, probably taken by the same guy in the same area.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 11:20 AM
BTW I'm not saying he didn't juice, but I'll say that using his pix from the 80's is downright funny when introducing evidence.

Then you probably should go back and read my first two posts in this thread. I am not, nor have I ever, advocated for using his picture as sole evidence that he used steroids. There's far, far better (and more voluminous) evidence than that.

I begin with the premise that he did use steroids, and that the enormous spurt of growth he experienced in the late 90s is a comical result of that.


So you say that even if he didn't do steroids he'd look like he did in the 80's?

No, I didn't say that. Those are your words, not mine.

redsfanfalcon
04-27-2006, 11:21 AM
you failed to make your point. we don't know what he was doing, if anything.
Relax. My opinion is he was on it. I said, OPINION. That is my point. The evidence points that he was on it. A while back, weren't they saying he was using a clear steroid creme? But, like anyone else, he is innocent until proven guilty. I can still have an OPINION about it.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 11:24 AM
Relax. My opinion is he was on it. I said, OPINION. That is my point. The evidence points that he was on it. A while back, weren't they saying he was using a clear steroid creme? But, like anyone else, he is innocent until proven guilty. I can still have an OPINION about it.

I think jpup is referring to Ruth, not Bonds.

WVPacman
04-27-2006, 03:54 PM
I think it is great. Bonds has not been proven guililty of anything. He is chasing a record no one thought would be broken. He has not tested positive for steroids so how can anyone say he is cheating.

It has been proven that if you use you will get caught. There was a minor league player caught this week and he is sitting out for 50 games. It proves testing really works.

I have to say Bonds is no angel with the Media, but a few years ago when the Giants were in town at the old stadium, we had seats down the right field line in row one.

A couple of drunks kept yelling at Bonds to turn around so they could get a pitcture of his ^&%&^$ face. Bonds did not turn around and we could tell he heard what the guys were saying. My son who was 5 at the time could not understand why those men were yelling at such a great player as Barry Bonds.

The next inning I told my son to yell over to Mr. Bonds and say he was a great player and thanks for playing on a Sunday so he could see him.

It took two innings of him telling Bonds the same thing (all this while the two idiots kept yelling at him), but Bonds did turn (he was about 40 feet away) looked at my son, smiled, gave him a thumbs up and said "thanks kid"

My kid has been a Barry Bonds fan since and three years later still talks about Bonds talking to him.

He become an Adam Dunn fan that day also. Dunn hit two homeruns that day.

So Barry is not all that bad. I was even impressed that he would take notice of a 5 year old kid in the stands.

I say give him a break. He is one of the best players of all time and I have had the chance to see it happen.


Alex him passing all the drug test does'nt prove nothing!! Take Big Mac for instance he passed everyone of his drug test.So that right there shows you that a player can get away with using steroids.I garrentee when he passes Ruth he will retire b/c thats all hes after is to be the left handed hitter that hit the most homeruns.He wants to get out of the game as fast as he can b/c he knows he has gotten cought cheating.It would'nt surprise me if he would hang them up the day after he passed Ruth.He can pass him up all he wants but he will never be as good or loved as the great babe ruth.

westofyou
04-27-2006, 04:08 PM
So that right there shows you that a player can get away with using steroids.Really?

How?

WVPacman
04-27-2006, 04:13 PM
Really?

How?


They never caught Big Mac during his playing days did they?? No they caught him when he was forced to tell the truth in front of those people with Sosa and so on. I never wanted to believe that Mark was a cheater but he made it obvious when he was pleading the 5th.Thats the only way they caught him and thats probably the only they will catch Bonds.JMO

westofyou
04-27-2006, 04:14 PM
No they caught him when he was forced to tell the truth in front of those people with Sosa and so on.

Really?

Chip R
04-27-2006, 04:15 PM
Alex him passing all the drug test does'nt prove nothing!! Take Big Mac for instance he passed everyone of his drug test.So that right there shows you that a player can get away with using steroids.

It's easy to pass a drug test that you never had to take.

oneupper
04-27-2006, 06:38 PM
It's easy to pass a drug test that you never had to take.

Or which didn't have your name on it. (Anonymous Testing--2003 IIRC).

BUTLER REDSFAN
04-27-2006, 07:24 PM
i know i'm way off base here(bad pun) but i get a feeling between the home run chase,the knee,the perjury inquiry and whatever else i may be forgetting i can see bonds simply hanging it up around june or july if he's not close to hank--i just see something coming and the situation will explode

fsp382
04-27-2006, 08:27 PM
Just saw on ESPN News ticker something about how MLB will not celebrate him passing Babe Ruth. Anyone know what this is about?

RedFanAlways1966
04-27-2006, 09:46 PM
Just saw on ESPN News ticker something about how MLB will not celebrate him passing Babe Ruth. Anyone know what this is about?

I do not know for sure, but... it is usually not in order to make a huge deal over a person becoming #2 in something. Most here, who are old enough to remember Pete's chase, probably do not recall him becoming #2 in hits (passing Hank Aaron's 3771). And MLB did not celebrate it. I am sure it was announced on the PA and on the scoreboard at the game... and by the announcers (TV or radio) and newspaper reporters. But there was not a big-to-do during or after the game by MLB. The same can be said of any other MLB record (Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak, Rickey's SB chase, the multiple single-season HR chases, etc.).

It is an achievement and worthy of note to become #2 all-time in a MLB category. But MLB does not celebrate it.

2001MUgrad
04-27-2006, 10:31 PM
Does that make Ruth any less of a ballplayer? Does it change his impact on the game? Is it going to lessen your view of the Babe in your or anyone else's mind?

Records are the 1 thing that baseball has that are sacred. No other sport has the type of "sacred" type records.

So its the historical impact of it that bothers me.

2001MUgrad
04-27-2006, 10:33 PM
because no one else has hit 3 HRs in 10 ABs. Soriano hit 3 in one game the other day. :bang:

if Barry Bonds is on steriods right now, he is a bigger idiot than all you think. no way he would be in that much pain if he was on the juice.


Was just saying. Have you seen him swing this year?? Its all arms. Not many can hit that way period. He has never hit like that in the past.

Crash Davis
04-27-2006, 11:33 PM
Records are the 1 thing that baseball has that are sacred. No other sport has the type of "sacred" type records.

So its the historical impact of it that bothers me.

The records aren't "sacred". That's just balderdash spin.

Jpup
04-28-2006, 02:08 AM
Was just saying. Have you seen him swing this year?? Its all arms. Not many can hit that way period. He has never hit like that in the past.

I give you the example of Soriano again. He is all hands and arms.

Also, earlier I was referring to Ruth.

No matter how old or broken down Barry Bonds gets, he can still rake. I think you all would have to admit that? Barry Bonds is a hitting machine. After he passes Ruth, he should hang 'em up, his leg is shot.

alexad
04-28-2006, 07:48 AM
Alex him passing all the drug test does'nt prove nothing!! Take Big Mac for instance he passed everyone of his drug test.So that right there shows you that a player can get away with using steroids.I garrentee when he passes Ruth he will retire b/c thats all hes after is to be the left handed hitter that hit the most homeruns.He wants to get out of the game as fast as he can b/c he knows he has gotten cought cheating.It would'nt surprise me if he would hang them up the day after he passed Ruth.He can pass him up all he wants but he will never be as good or loved as the great babe ruth.


McGwire was not using a banned substance at the time so yea he passed any test that might have been given. McGwire even said he used something.

My point is Bonds has not done anything illegal. If he used something, it was not against the laws of baseball. Time to move on. We can not blame a player for wanting to improve his game.

Until baseball started to crack down on this subject, many players were probably using something to feel better and get better. IT is like taking an asprin for a headache. If asprin becomes illegal, you find something else to take the pain away.

I read the other day about a new plant that if smoked, it gives a tremendous high for about an hour, yet it is not illegal to smoke because it does not have a long term effect like other drugs.

Maybe Barry is taking something right now, but it appears it is legal in the minds of baseball or he would have been caught in a drug test.

Could it be Palmerio was taking something he thought would be classified as legal but yet detected in a drug test because is was similiar to a drug they were testing for.

Like I have said, you have to test for every form of steriods, or players will continue to find a way to get better. That is just the facts.

Bonds has not done anything illegal by baseball standards. YOu can not go back 10 years and say here is where it all started, when baseball did not have any rules in place to justify going back and saying anything.

It was a stage of the game that can not be changed. In 15 years, there will be something else.

alexad
04-28-2006, 07:53 AM
I do not know for sure, but... it is usually not in order to make a huge deal over a person becoming #2 in something. Most here, who are old enough to remember Pete's chase, probably do not recall him becoming #2 in hits (passing Hank Aaron's 3771). And MLB did not celebrate it. I am sure it was announced on the PA and on the scoreboard at the game... and by the announcers (TV or radio) and newspaper reporters. But there was not a big-to-do during or after the game by MLB. The same can be said of any other MLB record (Cal Ripken's Iron Man streak, Rickey's SB chase, the multiple single-season HR chases, etc.).

It is an achievement and worthy of note to become #2 all-time in a MLB category. But MLB does not celebrate it.

Actually I remember the networks breaking in and having his every atbat. Back then it was NBC, CBS and ABC. They did make a big deal out of Rose passing Aaron. It was nothing like it is today with so much media access. I would say with how the media was during Pete's time compared to today it is a pretty good hype from then to now.

So it was a big deal back then.

registerthis
04-28-2006, 11:01 AM
My point is Bonds has not done anything illegal. If he used something, it was not against the laws of baseball. Time to move on. We can not blame a player for wanting to improve his game.

Watch me.

Chip R
04-28-2006, 11:06 AM
Records are the 1 thing that baseball has that are sacred. No other sport has the type of "sacred" type records.

So its the historical impact of it that bothers me.

I feel bad for you if you believe that Bonds passing Ruth diminishes Ruth in your eyes.

registerthis
04-28-2006, 11:20 AM
McGwire was not using a banned substance at the time so yea he passed any test that might have been given. McGwire even said he used something.

My point is Bonds has not done anything illegal. If he used something, it was not against the laws of baseball. Time to move on. We can not blame a player for wanting to improve his game.

Here's the problem with this line of thinking (and, again, we're rehashing an argument that has gone through the ringer here on RZ). You say we can't blame a player for wanting to improve his game. Fine. Then why have rules banning steroids? By all accounts, if administered properly under the care of a physician, steroids can be taken safely and effectively. So why have rules banning them at all? After all, every player has the financial ability and contacts to obtain and use steroids, they can hardly be viewed as difficult to obtain.

Along those same lines, why ban bat corking? Why ban excessive pine tar use? Why ban anything that can be used safely within a controlled environment? After all, if it's only a question of players improving themselves, it should be OK, right?

You say that "we can't blame a player for wanting to improve his game", but you are quite wrong. We absolutely can. Simply because something a player did was not considered "cheating" by the rules set forth in the collective bargaining agreement does not mean we fans are forced to accept results that some of us view as illegitimate. I have no interest in following a sport whose results are determined based upon which player has the best contacts in the pharmaceutical industry. Perhaps you do, in which case I urge you to celebrate the accomplishments of Mr Bonds, and revel in what he has done.

But Bonds has done nothing for me--nothing to enhance the game, nothing to respect the records he has set, and nothing to respect him as a player. And, regardless of what you may believe, I certainly can--and will--blame him for that.

registerthis
04-28-2006, 11:23 AM
I feel bad for you if you believe that Bonds passing Ruth diminishes Ruth in your eyes.

If anything, it makes me respect Ruth more. That he accomplished such phenomenal achievements absent many of the dietic and scientific advancements which players of today enjoy is nothing short of remarkable.

To witness what Bonds, with his gimpy legs and steroid-riddled body, has had to go through to equal what Ruth did offensively is truly a testament to what, exactly, Ruth achieved.

RedFanAlways1966
04-28-2006, 01:34 PM
Actually I remember the networks breaking in and having his every atbat. Back then it was NBC, CBS and ABC. They did make a big deal out of Rose passing Aaron. It was nothing like it is today with so much media access. I would say with how the media was during Pete's time compared to today it is a pretty good hype from then to now.

So it was a big deal back then.

Perhaps (I cannot remember the networks breaking in for Pete to become #2, but I believe ya). However, the question that brought this up was, "MLB will not make a big deal about it." Networks and local media probably will and that is perfectly understandable. But MLB will not stop a game in the same way they did when Rickey became the SB King or when Cal officially passed Gehrig in the 5th inning of game 2,132 for Barry becoming #2 (nor did they when Rickey and Cal become #2 in their respective records). MLB does not stop a game (for more than a minute) or make a big-to-do about anyone becoming #2 all-time in anything. #1 is a completely different story.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2006, 05:48 PM
Exactly and if he gets to go to the HOF then Pete Rose should be able to get elected to.:beerme:


Is it time to revisit this again?

The only way Rose will ever get in the HOF is after he's dead, and the veterans committee takes pity on him and his situation. Since Joe Jackson is still out, I can't imagine Pete Rose ever getting in. He made a mistake, and will continue to pay for it the rest of time as we know it.

Highlifeman21
04-28-2006, 05:53 PM
I think it is great. Bonds has not been proven guililty of anything. He is chasing a record no one thought would be broken. He has not tested positive for steroids so how can anyone say he is cheating.

Ruth, or Aaron?

Last time I checked, 755 is the number now, not 714. There should be no celebration if Bonds were to surpass 714. If he hits 756, then MLB should acknowledge it.

While I hope Bonds stops at 713, 1998 and prior, Bonds had still put together a HOF portfolio body of work.

savafan
04-28-2006, 06:50 PM
Actually, 715 would be a record, most career homeruns by a left handed batter.

Alex, I don't agree with you, but I can certainly see where you are coming from on a lot of your arguments.

I am currently reading Game of Shadows, and being halfway through it at this point, I sort of pity Bonds, in much the same way that I now pity Rose.

Barry was driven by his ego and need, not just desire, but his need to be the best player in the game. I get the feeling that Barry doesn't know real love or acceptance, that he has never been able to have these experiences in his life, and most people only want to be around him for what knowing him can do for their status. Barry feels that the only person that he can really count on, or trust, is Barry.

If you saw everyone where you work cheating the system and getting away with unethical practices and still getting ahead in the game and getting promotions and doted on, all the while you were doing your work the right way and going unnoticed, wouldn't you at least be tempted to try and cheat the system? Perhaps, perhaps not. This is what speaks about character, and when you throw out two individuals like Barry Bonds and Ken Griffey Jr. and now compare them, history will look at them both as great athletes, while one of them did things the right way, and his body and numbers took a hit because of it, and the other one did what he felt he had to do to be remembered, while his reputation suffered.

This is not to say that I excuse what Barry did, but after reading what I have of the book, I can understand his rationale...which really isn't what I expected to get out of reading it, but alas, that's what's happened to this point.

I can also see your son's point of view Alex. I had the opportunity to meet Barry Bonds once, around 1993 or 1994...don't really recall the year now, and to me he was very pleasant and personable, and I came away from that experience at that time unable to comprehend others' perspective of Bonds as a moody, beligerant, arrogant, aloofish jerk. Now, in the 12 or 13 years since that time, as I've matured and watched Barry over the years through interviews and whatnot, it is hard for me not to see others' view of him.