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Wheelhouse
04-27-2006, 11:21 AM
...I don't know if I want my #7 hitter taking a lot of walks if he has slugging pop like Brandon. Perhaps I'd like it in a #8 hitter somewhat (to avoid a pitcher leading off an inning), but when the worst-hitting position player follows the #7, then the pitcher, then the #1 hitter (Freel in our case, who has no power and is not a very good rbi guy), and the likelyhood of him having ducks on the pond with this lineup, I want Brandon to go for putting the ball in play. Views?

westofyou
04-27-2006, 11:23 AM
I don't want any player swing at balls out of the zone because they are afraid of what will happen when they are on base, I'd prefer they get on base and then worry about scoring.

pedro
04-27-2006, 11:24 AM
I don't want anyone up there swinging at balls. being selective will only make him a better player in the long run. Maybe he'll mature into something other than a #7 hitter with the right approach. He obviously has the physical talent.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2006, 11:25 AM
I'm not talking about his scoring, but the likelyhood of those players scoring who are on base when he comes to bat.

GAC
04-27-2006, 11:26 AM
I want a complete player.

But then again, strikeouts are over-rated. :lol:

pedro
04-27-2006, 11:28 AM
I'm not talking about his scoring, but the likelyhood of those players scoring who are on base when he comes to bat.

Being overly aggressive seldom pays off in the long run.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2006, 11:30 AM
But do you guys see my logic based on this lineup at this time and with Brandon batting in this position in the lineup...

registerthis
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
But do you guys see my logic based on this lineup at this time and with Brandon batting in this position in the lineup...

No, because it pigeonholes his role too much. Telling Brandon to ignore ths trike zone and swing for the fences because it's unlikely that anyone behind him will knock him in is a good way to ensure long term struggles at the plate for Brandon. The best thing he could do is work on becoming more selective at the plate and raising that OBP.

Johnny Footstool
04-27-2006, 11:34 AM
I'm not talking about his scoring, but the likelyhood of those players scoring who are on base when he comes to bat.

An overly-aggressive Brandon Phillips is a free-swinging out machine -- no better than a #8 or #9 hitter.

When the #8 hitter is Jason Larue, I'd rather have Phillips be selective, learn to lay off the low-and-away sliders and wait for a fastball to drive.

GAC
04-27-2006, 11:41 AM
Why would one not care about the lack of ability to know the strikezone and to be able to take walk?

It makes one even a better hitter.

RANDY IN INDY
04-27-2006, 11:46 AM
When a guy is seeing the ball like Phillips is right now, he will be swinging the bat often, but there will come a time when the ball looks less like a pumpkin and more like an aspirin. Can and will he make the adjustments when that happens? It's all about making the adjustments, knowing the strike zone and figuring out which pitches you can and cannot handle. That will tell us if Phillips is merely a flash in the pan, or a major league baseball player. This hot streak is a great confidence builder for Phillips. When the hot streak ends, Chris Chambliss will play a very important role in Phillips development. I hope Phillips is at the point in his career where he is willing to listen. His success depends on it.

Wheelhouse
04-27-2006, 11:48 AM
I think being exposed to Chambliss will make him a more patient hitter. Chambliss is the very best.

Hoosier Red
04-27-2006, 11:57 AM
I think it's a bad approach for Phillips, but I understand your argument.
Continue to work with him on it, but if I've got a free-swinger who has some pop in his bat, I'd bat him 7th for the reasons you mentioned.

There are always things he can improve on. Not swinging at balls out of his "zone" is an important one.
However in the mean time, might as well take advantage of what he does well.

Reds1
04-27-2006, 12:19 PM
Hopefully under Chambliss he will improve on his BB ratio. Some people just are aggressive ala Valentin.

Sea Ray
04-27-2006, 12:24 PM
I don't think he's been wildly swinging at a lot of balls so far in a Reds uniform. I think other teams saw his career numbers and made a deliberate decision to make him beat them. They pitch around guys like Kearns and Dunn and left guys like Encarnacion and Phillips to beat them. To their credit these guys have risen to the challenge. These guys have come up with a lot of guys on base and they've produced.

Johnny Footstool
04-27-2006, 12:46 PM
Phillips is aggressive when it comes to fastballs. He hacks at anything that looks like a fastball. Ramon Ortiz highlighted that shortcoming by throwing him sliders low and away and letting him flail at them. I imagine a good changeup would give Phillips fits, too.

I imagine he'll be seeing a lot fewer fastballs in the coming weeks and months, so it will be up to him to make an adjustment and not get himself out.

redsmetz
04-27-2006, 12:53 PM
I want a complete player.

But then again, strikeouts are over-rated. :lol:

Or as Crash Davis said: Strikeouts are boring! Besides that, they're fascist.

smith288
04-27-2006, 12:57 PM
Being overly aggressive seldom pays off in the long run.
Unless you're Vlad...

He has plate coverage Brandon can only dream of having.

smith288
04-27-2006, 12:58 PM
Phillips is aggressive when it comes to fastballs. He hacks at anything that looks like a fastball. Ramon Ortiz highlighted that shortcoming by throwing him sliders low and away and letting him flail at them. I imagine a good changeup would give Phillips fits, too.

I imagine he'll be seeing a lot fewer fastballs in the coming weeks and months, so it will be up to him to make an adjustment and not get himself out.
His HR against the Brewers was an inside curve... He can handle slow stuff. He just needs to learn to recognize it better and possibly watch more tape of pitchers he is facing and how they approach players like him.

Doc. Scott
04-27-2006, 01:09 PM
Phillips is aggressive when it comes to fastballs. He hacks at anything that looks like a fastball. Ramon Ortiz highlighted that shortcoming by throwing him sliders low and away and letting him flail at them. I imagine a good changeup would give Phillips fits, too.

I imagine he'll be seeing a lot fewer fastballs in the coming weeks and months, so it will be up to him to make an adjustment and not get himself out.

In his first two at-bats yesterday, Phillips struck out on three pitches each time. So he made some adjustments.

He then ran the count to 3-0 in both his third and fourth at-bats yesterday, took a strike in each, then resumed hacking. This is not the worst strategy if you're in the middle of a hot streak.

His fifth at-bat only lasted two pitches. Ball one and a fielder's choice grounder.

He's drawn 230 walks just over 3,000 minor-league plate appearances. This is not the world's worst ratio, although it is a little lower than the ol' Magic Ten Percent. Being that he was young for virtually every level he's played at up until 2005, I think you can make a fair bet on his plate discipline improving as he gains big-league experience.

http://www.thebaseballcube.com/players/P/brandon-phillips.shtml

lollipopcurve
04-27-2006, 01:13 PM
His HR against the Brewers was an inside curve

He also turned on a Derrick Turnbow fastball and hit it way out to left.

M2
04-27-2006, 01:56 PM
Phillips is going to need to develop some form of patience because, if he truly is ready to step up his game to the major-league level for a full season, he's probably only a .280 hitter.

I figure that he plays good D and has some sting in his bat, the Reds can accept as low as a .320 OB from him. Below that and he becomes too easy of an out for my tastes even with his other skills. Anyway, if he hits .280, he'll need 30-35 BBs to reach a .320 OB.

registerthis
04-27-2006, 02:02 PM
Phillips is going to need to develop some form of patience because, if he truly is ready to step up his game to the major-league level for a full season, he's probably only a .280 hitter.

I figure that he plays good D and has some sting in his bat, the Reds can accept as low as a .320 OB from him. Below that and he becomes too easy of an out for my tastes even with his other skills. Anyway, if he hits .280, he'll need 30-35 BBs to reach a .320 OB.

Well, he's only 24 (seems like he should be older than that), so there's hope. I agree, though--if his OBP drops below the .320 level, he'll be entering WMP territory, without the power to back it up.

RANDY IN INDY
04-27-2006, 03:04 PM
If his defense is as good as billed, that should bring somethng to the table as well, as M2 has mentioned.

traderumor
04-27-2006, 03:08 PM
While I understand being alarmed that BP has not taken a walk yet, I have not observed a bunch of hacking ala Tony Batista going on. It seems that pitchers continue to challenge him and he continues to take care of the challenges.

RANDY IN INDY
04-27-2006, 03:19 PM
While I understand being alarmed that BP has not taken a walk yet, I have not observed a bunch of hacking ala Tony Batista going on. It seems that pitchers continue to challenge him and he continues to take care of the challenges.

:beerme:

GullyFoyle
04-27-2006, 04:27 PM
I think Jeff Francoeur might be an interesting comparison... though I'm not saying they are the same animal.

Over at Sabernomics they have a post about Jeff that's interesting (http://www.sabernomics.com/sabernomics/index.php/2006/04/pondering-jeff-francoeur/), but what I wanted to look at is what Colin, one of the posters, left and that is Jeff's numbers:

Jeff Francoeur
Prior to drawing first major league walk:
379/394/734, 10 HR in 120+ PA

Remainder of last season after that (including postseason):
228/281/376, 4 HR, 11BB in about 160 PA

Total line since then including postseason and this season:
213/250/354, 7 HR, 11 BB in about 240 PA

Now I know it is not the same situation, BP looks like he has more discipline than JF, swings at less first pitches, etc. but it is illuminating to see how big an effect the approach pitchers take to a batter can have...