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View Full Version : Merged: Clemens to be an Astro / Rocket coming back to Astros



Team Clark
04-29-2006, 10:47 PM
I was in town Thursday and part of Friday. Before I left Cincinnati to go work in Cleveland Sat/Sun I had lunch at the boathouse with two of Houston's execs. Both of them have had direct dealings with Roger and his agents this season and past seasons. Although there is supposed to be no negotiations before May 1, Clemens has a deal in place with Houston that could be announced May 1. However, the Astros are not expecting to announce anything in the next few weeks. They do expect him June 1.

My first question to them was why Roger seen courting other teams? Directly, without hesitation, the answer was simple. Roger, no matter what he has said publicly, can not stand to be out of the spotlight. The Rangers practically made him Mayor of Arlington for the better part of three days. He craves that type of MEGA star attention. He is beyond Superstar status and has a cult like following in Houston. He is simply not ready to give that up. They both commented that Bagwell is suffering from the same predicament. Neither can adjust to a "regular" life.

I asked both of them about the recent Baseball Tonight piece that speculated he was going to Boston. They both kind of laughed and said that in Boston or anywhere else he can't have the "lifestyle" he desires. New York will not allow him to stay at home between starts. Texas may give him all of the lattitude he wants but he is very close to many of the Astros. Being able to pitch and stay home to play with the kids seems to be a big deal. Roger is leaning toward coming back in June so that he can finish strong. He figures to make between 16-20 starts including the post season. Roger feels he can be "dominant" during that span.

I did ask if Roger had the ability to change his mind. They did say that obviously he is not under contract "at this moment" but they do not forsee him backing out. Clemens and his agent are the ones who came back to the table and gave the parameters of the deal.


I saw Graves pitch tonight. THAT HAIR!! Geez.

Aronchis
04-29-2006, 10:52 PM
That puts the Astros back into the fray for the whole season.

Reds Nd2
04-29-2006, 10:56 PM
I guess I'm just skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. Besides astrobuddy already informed us that Clemens would be an Astro. :D

Team Clark
04-29-2006, 11:08 PM
I guess I'm just skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. Besides astrobuddy already informed us that Clemens would be an Astro. :D


:laugh: I'm a day late and a dollar short. I too am a little skeptical because I have not heard the dollar figures. Dollars mean a lot to Clemens. I have known both the guys that I had lunch with for years. One for 14 years the other for 6. If either are embellishing or fibbing it will be the first I have heard of it.

I would not say this to them, but I'd like to see the Rocket come back as a Yankee.

dman
04-29-2006, 11:13 PM
Clemens has been on the East Coast, Canada, and the Southwest. Why doesn't Anaheim make a bid for him so that he can vie for a West Coast team?

TeamBoone
04-29-2006, 11:16 PM
TC (or anyone else), something really bothers me about this Clemens thing, though it would apply to any player if applicable.

Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year? MLB has so many rules that I can't for the life of me figure out why there is no rule against this. IMHO, there should be.

It isn't fair to his own team, nor is it fair to the other teams. If he doesn't pitch before June 1, there may be out-of-division teams that will never have to face him. And/or in-division teams that will face him more than others merely because MLB has given him their blessing to take a vacation for the first two months of the season!

All players should be required to make that decison before the season starts or be doo-doo out of luck?

What if every player did that? Or even just the other superstars?

It totally reeks, and I don't like it one bit. It shouldn't be allowed.

Reds Nd2
04-29-2006, 11:20 PM
I would not say this to them, but I'd like to see the Rocket come back as a Yankee.

This is just my opinion, but I see Clemens following the money and I'm just not buying the NY team, Yankees presumably, won't allow him to have days off when the team travels. Every team often plays short handed and the rosters will expand in September, so I don't see that as much of an deterrent. Whichever team has deep enough pockets for the Rocket will get him when the time comes. Could very well be the 'Stros in the end, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him in pinstripes come August.

Thanks for the update TCII.

flyer85
04-29-2006, 11:25 PM
Clemens will be a solid addition. I would expect an ERA in the 3.5 range this time around.

However, it doesn't address the main problems this team has which is a lack of OBP from the one and two spots nd little LH punch. Those two Biggio and Tavares never walk. This team really suffers from a lack of punch from the left side which makes them very susceptable to RH pitching.

vaticanplum
04-29-2006, 11:36 PM
This is just my opinion, but I see Clemens following the money and I'm just not buying the NY team, Yankees presumably, won't allow him to have days off when the team travels. Every team often plays short handed and the rosters will expand in September, so I don't see that as much of an deterrent. Whichever team has deep enough pockets for the Rocket will get him when the time comes. Could very well be the 'Stros in the end, but I wouldn't be suprised to see him in pinstripes come August.

Steinbrenner has deep pockets, but they don't empty unconditionally. He has very specific ideas about what it means to play for that team and my impression is that he doesn't take too kindly to what he sees as egotistical demands. That's fresh in my mind because I'm reading Game of Shadows and it references the fact that the Yankees dropped out pursuing Bonds pretty early in the race of his early 2000s free agency due to his demands -- Steinbrenner didn't take too kindly to Bonds's assumption that he would be the main superstar on the team. The book mentions something about how Steinbrenner feels it is an honor to wear the uniform and he blanches when players don't bite back at that.

Obviously, Steinbrenner is familiar with Clemens, but I do not think he'd let up on the travel rule. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the travel rule was specific to Houston because of his family being there, ie. if he requested the same in New York, it would TRULY be a self-serving request in every way and pretty much an excuse to dump the team when he didn't have to pitch for them.

I'm not saying George wouldn't go nuts if the Yankees were close to the postseason but clearly needed Clemens to get them there. But they can probably do it without him, so that coupled with all of the above makes me think that Clemens will not be a Yankee with the same perks he had in Houston. Apart from the money, of course.

Reds Nd2
04-29-2006, 11:40 PM
TC (or anyone else), something really bothers me about this Clemens thing, though it would apply to any player if applicable.

Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year? MLB has so many rules that I can't for the life of me figure out why there is no rule against this. IMHO, there should be.

It isn't fair to his own team, nor is it fair to the other teams. If he doesn't pitch before June 1, there may be out-of-division teams that will never have to face him. And/or in-division teams that will face him more than others merely because MLB has given him their blessing to take a vacation for the first two months of the season!

All players should be required to make that decison before the season starts or be doo-doo out of luck?

What if every player did that? Or even just the other superstars?

It totally reeks, and I don't like it one bit. It shouldn't be allowed.

I see your point TB and someone can answer you better than I can, but he's not holding out. He just hasn't signed a contract yet. The Astros declined to offer him salary arbitration and that's why the Astros can't sign him before Monday. Basically he can sit on his arse and attend Freedom games untill he decides to go back to work. I don't really blame him and would do the same if I could. Most players, even the superstars, can't do that because they are under contract to their respective teams. I know you don't like it, but untill Clemens decides to go back to work for someone thats just the way it is. Look at it this way, the Reds won't have to face him as often this season.

marcshoe
04-29-2006, 11:45 PM
otoh, it would have been nice to beat Oswalt, Pettite and Clemens to sweep the 'stros....:cool:

westofyou
04-30-2006, 12:18 AM
Why does he (any player?) have the right to hold out for so long as to whether or not he will play this year? Talent and service time.

In short he's talented enough to get by with it, and he's earned the right to attempt it, MLB could ignore him and see how that worked out, plus he probably knows that he has only so many innings in his arm this year, by holding out he ends up leveraging prime innings later in the summer.

He's a hired gun.

TeamBoone
04-30-2006, 01:12 AM
I see your point TB and someone can answer you better than I can, but he's not holding out. He just hasn't signed a contract yet.


In short he's talented enough to get by with it, and he's earned the right to attempt it, MLB could ignore him and see how that worked out, plus he probably knows that he has only so many innings in his arm this year, by holding out he ends up leveraging prime innings later in the summer.

He's a hired gun.

It makes me sick, and I still think it's crap.

I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.

Phhhl
04-30-2006, 01:29 AM
It makes me sick, and I still think it's crap.

I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.

I agree with you 100%, TB. There is something against the spirit of the rules about this, if not the letter of the rules. I would hate to see other players follow Clemens' example in the future.

Let's not pretend. No Reds fan wants to see The Astros add a hall of fame pitcher at mid-season. Hopefully, they will be forced to pay Jeff Bagwell all his money and they won't be able to afford him this time.

I have to say, I do detect some arrogance about the Astros this year. The World Series appearance may have gone to their heads. In many ways, it's the perfect club for an egomaniac like Roger.

Newman4
04-30-2006, 08:29 AM
TC, it sounds like these Houston boys you spoke with aren't really as sure as they talk. I think it's a lot of wishful thinking there. That story about him craving attention is crap IMO. I think he's like a young guy who has a girlfriend but still goes to the bar and hits on all the other chicks. He's playing the Astros, knowing that he can always fall back on them to kiss his rear and give him whatever he asks for (i.e. no travel, money, etc.). Maybe they're not announcing anything May 1 b/c Roggie wants to see who's gonna be a contender and who's not.

MattyHo4Life
04-30-2006, 08:43 AM
I guess I'm just skeptical, but I'll believe it when I see it. Besides astrobuddy already informed us that Clemens would be an Astro. :D

Astrobuddy also informed us that Dunn would be an Astro. :evil:

realreds1
04-30-2006, 09:01 AM
From this morning:



If Clemens returns to mound, it won't be in May
Astros can begin taking to Rocket again; agent says only 4 teams in running

By Dave Sheinin
The Washington Post
Updated: 4:17 a.m. ET April 30, 2006


Somewhere deep in the heart of Texas, at this very moment, Roger Clemens is staring down a 10-foot par putt, or gutting the carcass of a freshly hunted animal, or driving a Hummer full of young'uns around the greater Houston metropolitan area. What he is not doing -- and what he has not done since pitching for the U.S. team during the World Baseball Classic in March -- is playing baseball.

That could all change in the next month or so. The Roger Clemens Sweepstakes officially opens tomorrow -- the day the Houston Astros are permitted to begin negotiating with him, and the day Clemens, 43, is expected to get serious about a decision he has been putting off: Whether to fire up the ol' flamethrower for a 23rd big league season, and if so, where.

Randy Hendricks, one of Clemens's agents, said in an e-mail that Clemens will not pitch in May, but he added, "We will listen to the Astros." If nothing else, the May 1 date -- when teams are permitted to re-sign players to whom they did not offer arbitration over the winter -- is an effectively artificial trigger to jump-start a process that, to this point, has consisted of a lot of flirting but not much action.

Astros GM Tim Purpura said he plans to meet with Clemens's agents soon to "take the temperature of where Roger is [in the decision process] right now."

Hendricks confirmed that there are only four teams Clemens will consider: the Astros, Rangers, Red Sox and Yankees.

The first two satisfy Clemens's stated desire to remain close to his Houston home. The last two are well-heeled franchises for whom Clemens has pitched previously and who, presumably, would be willing to meet an asking price that is expected to begin at around $3 million per month -- or roughly the same monthly salary he made last year, when, for $18 million, he went 13-8 with a league-leading 1.87 ERA and helped the Astros win their first National League pennant.

For those teams not under consideration by Clemens, the whole affair has an air of unseemliness about it -- from Clemens's obvious courting of the Yankees and Red Sox in an effort to spark a bidding war, to the apparent willingness of the four teams to bend over backwards to accommodate Clemens's needs and demands.

"It's a totally new way of looking at the later years of your career for older players," said one American League GM whose team is not involved in the Clemens pursuit. "Why go through six weeks of spring training and a six-month season if you can just all of a sudden show up in June or July and say, 'Here I am'?"

Of the four teams involved, the Astros still make the most sense, given their location, their need for a front-line starter and their legitimate hopes for contending. But if Clemens and his agents allow money to dictate their choice, conventional wisdom says the Astros have little hope of keeping pace with the Yankees or Red Sox.

"I don't think we're going to be in a position where he'll play for us for 50 cents on the dollar because we're his hometown team," Purpura said. "But I think we'll be very competitive" with the other offers.

There is still a fifth possibility -- that Clemens does not pitch at all -- in which case the last six months of speculation has all been one big tease. And then wouldn't we all feel silly?

© 2006 The Washington Post Company

© 2006 MSNBC.com

URL: http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/12557144/

GAC
04-30-2006, 10:14 AM
I wonder how long it will take him to be ready to pitch at the level most expect, and be able to contribute?

End of May?

westofyou
04-30-2006, 10:32 AM
I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.
Baseball screwed the players for over 100 years , one player finally has some pull to decide where HE wants to play and everyone gets all upset at the one player in the thousands who has had the chance to stick it to the owners... I find it funny and not at all odd, everyone else in the business world can control their destiny, but somehow Roger is evil for having, and using the same rights.

Freaking hilarious.

TC81190
04-30-2006, 10:40 AM
Damn.


There goes our playoff chances. :evil:

Unassisted
04-30-2006, 10:44 AM
I've seen firsthand that Houston fans' love for Clemens knows no bounds. I doubt that a Johnny Carson-style deal and brief flirtations with other clubs will reduce that love for him.

The man can still pitch well enough to win. If he has enough leverage to get that kind of deal, I say "More power to him."

smith288
04-30-2006, 10:55 AM
I like Clemens but i think it would be hillarious to see him come back and be totally rocked due to being out of shape or just losing it.

He should have just left well enough alone like Micheal Jordan was unable to do.

Jpup
04-30-2006, 11:05 AM
It makes me sick, and I still think it's crap.

I don't like him anyway, and this makes me dislike him even more. What a prima donna.

You would like him if he was on the Reds. He's the best pitcher in a generation and you don't like him? I don't understand.

GAC
04-30-2006, 11:12 AM
You would like him if he was on the Reds. He's the best pitcher in a generation and you don't like him? I don't understand.

The issue is not his talent. No one denies that. It's his attitude/personality.

I personally think he's a jerk.

westofyou
04-30-2006, 11:17 AM
The issue is not his talent. No one denies that. It's his attitude/personality.No, TB has an issue with him holding out.

Something Reds CF Edd Roush did every year of his career (except when he had leveraged a prior hold out into a multi year contrcat, which is an amazing thing in the 20's) Ed did it so many times that it became a part of his post career persona. He HATED spring training and pretty much did his best top avoid it.

Then he'd step in and lead the team in hitting.

TB You would have hated him, he was one prickly man.

MattyHo4Life
04-30-2006, 11:28 AM
It would be wrong if he was under contract, and then didn't report to ST. Clemens is just following the rules. He isn't even allowed to negotiate with his former team until May 1st.

pedro
04-30-2006, 11:40 AM
I'm not particularily fond of Clemens, but I don't see anything wrong with him doing what he's doing.

Sounds like sour grapes by fans who are upset he's going to play for a competitor to me.

TeamBoone
04-30-2006, 12:26 PM
Baseball screwed the players for over 100 years , one player finally has some pull to decide where HE wants to play and everyone gets all upset at the one player in the thousands who has had the chance to stick it to the owners... I find it funny and not at all odd, everyone else in the business world can control their destiny, but somehow Roger is evil for having, and using the same rights.

Freaking hilarious.

I have absolutely no problems with him playing for the team of his choice. It's the timing I don't like. I don't think he should be allowed to start playing months after the season has started, just because he can!

And you can talk all you want but you will never convince me otherwise.

TeamBoone
04-30-2006, 12:28 PM
You would like him if he was on the Reds. He's the best pitcher in a generation and you don't like him? I don't understand.

No! I will never like him, and it has nothing to do with his pitching ability.

I will never forgive him for the Mike Piazza incident. It was dangerous, he was a jerk, and he didn't even receive a slap on the wrist.

pedro
04-30-2006, 12:36 PM
I have absolutely no problems with him playing for the team of his choice. It's the timing I don't like. I don't think he should be allowed to start playing months after the season has started, just because he can!

And you can talk all you want but you will never convince me otherwise.


Why not?

Astrobuddy
04-30-2006, 02:00 PM
Matty, I never said WHEN Dunn would be an Astros did I.

I am leaving that subject alone because it is a sore subject. I kinda wish you would do the same. It would be best for all concerned. Dont use that to call me out please.


Clemens will be making his 1st start against the Reds June 2nd. That will be the Reds chance to blast him.

MattyHo4Life
04-30-2006, 02:03 PM
I have absolutely no problems with him playing for the team of his choice. It's the timing I don't like. I don't think he should be allowed to start playing months after the season has started, just because he can!

MLB rules don't allow him to play for the team of his choice until after May1st though.

ochre
04-30-2006, 02:20 PM
I've asked Astrobuddy to stop with the Dunn stuff, so it's only fair that we all lay off of him on that.

Crash Davis
04-30-2006, 02:44 PM
I have absolutely no problems with him playing for the team of his choice. It's the timing I don't like. I don't think he should be allowed to start playing months after the season has started, just because he can!

And you can talk all you want but you will never convince me otherwise.

I can't stand Roger Clemens, but I think it's absolutely fantastic that he can skip spring training and the first two months of the season.

Hey, this is America, and capitalism works both ways. He has put himself in a position where his services are so much in demand that he can play half a season and skip a few road trips if he wants to. Cool. He's not so unlike other retired Americans who only work in a part-time job which fits their retirement priorities to a tee.

What I find hilarious is the people who get all hot and bothered because he'll stay in Houston a couple of times a year when he's not pitching a road trip. They said it's a double standard, not fair to his teammates and will cause resentment.

Hmmm...Let's see here. If you were a player on the Astros, would you want Fernando Nieve as your 5th starter? Or would you prefer having Roger Clemens, even with his so-called "warts", knowing that Clemens will be one of the top 10 pitchers in the league? No question, give me the guy who helps me get to the playoffs.

It would be totally different if this was a guy who was only a 5 or 10 year veteran...if a guy like Kevin Mitchell didn't feel like coming back from the All-Star break because he's riding dune buggies in the desert. But Clemens is a very unique case. He was retired, and the Astros pulled him out of retirement (granted, with very much money and very little prodding).

If I'm a player, and even if I can't stand Roger Clemens, I want him on my team because he's a great pitcher. I want to win. He can write his own schedule...within reason. And I think, considering the unique circumstances, his schedule has been very much within reason.

Raisor
04-30-2006, 08:04 PM
I have absolutely no problems with him playing for the team of his choice. It's the timing I don't like. I don't think he should be allowed to start playing months after the season has started, just because he can!

And you can talk all you want but you will never convince me otherwise.


I really don't understand what you're saying here. He wasn't offered arbritration by the Astros (since he would have made somewhere around 20 million a year), so he can't sign with the team until after May 1st. If the only team he is willing to play for are the Astros, then he has to wait until then.

Those are baseball's rules, it's not Clemens.

Caveman Techie
04-30-2006, 08:15 PM
I do think that Clemens will pitch for the Astros, and since he officially can't talk to them until after May 1st, I don't have a problem with what he's doing.

He's still a jerk though.

A jerk I'd like to see in a Red's uniform though, but a jerk none the less.

Newman4
04-30-2006, 10:07 PM
Ah, I say piss on him, he'll get too old one of these days......I hope :bang:

blumj
04-30-2006, 11:08 PM
From a totally different perspective, there are some fans in Boston who've been emotionally invested in the guy for 20 years of their lives, both good and bad, who are being yanked around in all this, mostly by the media, but aided of course by Roger, his agents, and the Red Sox. Yes, they all have the right, but, up here at least, what's really to be gained? There is something kind of sleazy about it, because people's emotions are being stirred up. It isn't just about bringing in another pitcher, it's become about bringing home the prodigal son. I don't know how Houston fans feel, but I do know this has become hugely emotional in Boston, and I really don't think it was necessary or even ultimately beneficial to anyone in a tangible way. So, yeah, I think there's something creepy about it, even if no one really did anything wrong.

Astrobuddy
04-30-2006, 11:12 PM
Well, Boston fans can get emotional about alot of things. I dont really feel sorry for them.


45 minutes and counting till Drayton and the Astros can drop off that blank contract and blank check at Clemens doorstep.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:10 AM
No! I will never like him, and it has nothing to do with his pitching ability.

I will never forgive him for the Mike Piazza incident. It was dangerous, he was a jerk, and he didn't even receive a slap on the wrist.

:laugh: seriously? he thought it was the ball. :lol:

j/k

westofyou
05-01-2006, 12:13 AM
45 minutes and counting till Drayton and the Astros can drop off that blank contract and blank check at Clemens doorstep.

And this

http://capefeare.com/donuts.gif

KronoRed
05-01-2006, 04:26 AM
Hmmm...sugar induced coma.

MattyHo4Life
05-01-2006, 07:44 AM
Well, Boston fans can get emotional about alot of things. I dont really feel sorry for them.


45 minutes and counting till Drayton and the Astros can drop off that blank contract and blank check at Clemens doorstep.

If they wanted him so bad then why didn't they offer him arbitration?

Astrobuddy
05-01-2006, 09:57 AM
Lots of reasons Matty. Money was probably #1. Clemens stated he wanted the Astros to move on as if he wasnt going play. He wouldnt give them an answer. I think Clemens did this so Drayton would improve the team. If Clemens was already signed then Drayton would have quit spending money.

I think this has been his plan all along, while I have no insider info on that, its what makes the most sense.

But here is the biggest question of all....

If Clemens was going to sign with a team other than the Astros incuding the Yankees or Red Sox why hasnt he already done it?

PuffyPig
05-01-2006, 10:18 AM
But here is the biggest question of all....

If Clemens was going to sign with a team other than the Astros incuding the Yankees or Red Sox why hasnt he already done it?

Clemens doesn't want to play a full season. he has publically said so. He doesn't think he can hold up a full season (see 2005).

He wants to pitch about 20 starts, and play in the post season.

Which is why he will choose the Reds over the Astros.:laugh:

Astrobuddy
05-01-2006, 10:52 AM
Nice Puffy...

blumj
05-01-2006, 01:36 PM
But here is the biggest question of all....

If Clemens was going to sign with a team other than the Astros incuding the Yankees or Red Sox why hasnt he already done it?
Because this is the best part. He gets to savor everyone fighting over him, sucking up to him, starting a bidding war over him. Not that I disagree with you about the likely outcome, but this way, he gets the icing, too.

Reds Nd2
05-01-2006, 01:39 PM
Obviously, Steinbrenner is familiar with Clemens, but I do not think he'd let up on the travel rule. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I thought the travel rule was specific to Houston because of his family being there, ie. if he requested the same in New York, it would TRULY be a self-serving request in every way and pretty much an excuse to dump the team when he didn't have to pitch for them.

Your correct. The travel clause was specific to his contract with the Astros so that he could spend time with his family when he wasn't required to pitch. I would assume he would want the same type clause in any contract he signs in the future. I'm not sure it would be any more self-serving of Clemens to request that from the Yankees though. It seemed pretty selfish on his part when he requested the clause from the Astros. Of course, I'm just jealous because I don't have the ability to request that of my employer. :)


I'm not saying George wouldn't go nuts if the Yankees were close to the postseason but clearly needed Clemens to get them there. But they can probably do it without him, so that coupled with all of the above makes me think that Clemens will not be a Yankee with the same perks he had in Houston. Apart from the money, of course.

I agree the Yankees can make the post season without Clemens. They will also face the Red Sox at some point thereafter and having Clemens on the Yankees is a much better proposition than having to face him in a short do or die series. This isn't a knock on Steinbrenner, but it's no secret that he wants another championship and isn't afraid to spend money to do it. While your very much correct about George's feelings on what it takes to wear the pinstripes, he also realizes what it takes to win and I think he'll do whatever it takes, even if it means making concessions to Clemens.

Don't forget, Clemens has also publicly stated that he would boycott his own HOF induction (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0615/1568234.html)if he didn't go in as a Yankee. That certainly had to endear the Rocket to Steinbrenner and makes a future signing more possible than we might think. On the other hand, Clemens and the Astros have a ten year personal services contract signed for the Rocket when he does retire. I'm not sure if or how that would affect any future contracts Roger signs to play baseball.

MattyHo4Life
05-01-2006, 01:57 PM
Lots of reasons Matty. Money was probably #1. Clemens stated he wanted the Astros to move on as if he wasnt going play. He wouldnt give them an answer. I think Clemens did this so Drayton would improve the team. If Clemens was already signed then Drayton would have quit spending money.

Didn't that happen anyways? How much did Drayton improve the team after that?

traderumor
05-01-2006, 02:15 PM
Come on, you guys are painting a picture of Clemens as some self-serving jerk. Is that really fair? :evil:

vaticanplum
05-01-2006, 02:27 PM
Don't forget, Clemens has also publicly stated that he would boycott his own HOF induction (http://espn.go.com/mlb/news/2003/0615/1568234.html)if he didn't go in as a Yankee.

That's true, I forgot about that. I wonder if he'll ever change his mind about that.

I need to clarify what I meant about the Yankees and the travel rule -- what I meant was that if the rule was specific to Houston because of his family, the same would not apply in New York unless his family moved there. While I'm not familiar with the Clemens family dynamic, I'd have to think they'd be very unlikely to do that, especially since by the time this happens we'll be well into the season. So if he requests the same no-travel rule with the Yankees, he won't be able to use the spending-time-with-his-family thing as an excuse. Unless he traveled back to Houston all the time, which I doubt he'd do either.

I guess a lot will depend on how the Yankees' pitching fares, ie. whether they finally ship Jaret Wright to Iceland in the dead of night and the newly activated Aaron Small keeps up what he did last season. It's a possibility that Clemens will play for another team -- I think he's genuinely considering it, not playing around for attention -- but I still think he'll end up an Astro, and I still think we're going to find out he's more injured than he's letting on.

MartyFan
05-01-2006, 03:12 PM
Rocket has rocked the mound for how long? He has chips to play...he should use em.

Put yourself in his shoes...lets say you work at the local Dairy Queen and you serve soft serve ice milk like nobody else...you have a period where you work and then you go work someplace else or just hang out...the boss says he/she wants you back and you say okay but I don't want to open anymore...it's tough to wake up before noon and I don't want to have to load all that heavy mix in the machine....boss says okay...when can you start? ...I'lll let you know...if the boss says it's okay, you'd more than likely take your time...Rocket doesn't have to work and this "stunt" has kept him in the eyes of fans all over baseball, he is as much a story right now than if he would have gone 5-0 through April like Maddux and Martinez...who are not getting the face time or run time that Rocket is by doing nothing.

I figure he is a lot like Bobby Knight...you either like him or you don't and I love the guy.

BRM
05-03-2006, 12:23 PM
Astros make offer to Clemens

MILWAUKEE - Astros owner Drayton McLane and general manager Tim Purpura met with Roger Clemens' representatives Randy and Alan Hendricks on Tuesday to present the parameters of their offer to the future Hall of Famer.

Neither side would publicly confirm the actual amount of the offer, but a person close to the negotiations has said the Astros would start the negotiations at no less than a pro-rated amount of the record $18 million Clemens earned last year.

"We put forth a very strong number," Purpura said. "It's always hard to know, it's impossible to know what numbers are out there."

"It was a competitive offer for someone that has really helped make a huge contribution to Houston Astros in 2004 and 2005," McLane said by phone from his Houston apartment. "

Given that Randy Hendricks has said Clemens won't play before June 1, it's unlikely the Astros will be given an answer this week. Clemens still hasn't decided if he'll play a 23rd season.

"I think it was very positive overall," Randy Hendricks said. "I don't want a characterization of a positive meeting to imply that Roger will sign with the Astros tomorrow. ... I had very good meeting with Boston, New York and Texas. That doesn't equal a decision. I repeat — he doesn't plan to play in May.

"Essentially what this does is put the Astros in the mix. I think that was pretty predictable to many people for a long time."

LINK (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3836709.html)

Team Clark
05-03-2006, 03:56 PM
Kind of funny to see the charades that they put on.

MattyHo4Life
05-03-2006, 06:09 PM
a person close to the negotiations has said the Astros would start the negotiations at no less than a pro-rated amount of the record $18 million Clemens earned last year.

They should have just offered him arbitration last year if they are willing to pay that much anyways.

Astrobuddy
05-03-2006, 06:28 PM
Matty, $22 million is alot different than $12 million. PLUS... Clemens would get all the media attention, PLUS he wouldnt get the time off he really needed.

registerthis
05-03-2006, 06:29 PM
If I were a GM of a team that I KNEW Clemens wouldn't entertain an offer from, I would submit an offer to sign Clemens for the major league minimum and demand that he be on the bench for every game that he doesn't start. Just to ruffle the feathers a bit.

This guy thinks he's bigger than the game--what a farce.

Astrobuddy
05-03-2006, 06:32 PM
No .. its just business. Clemens isnt hurting the game, not one bit.

MattyHo4Life
05-03-2006, 06:48 PM
Matty, $22 million is alot different than $12 million. PLUS... Clemens would get all the media attention, PLUS he wouldnt get the time off he really needed.

At least $12Mil. They said that is where the starting offer. They paid Clemens $18Mil last year didn't they? At least that way they would have had him for a full season. What if they are one game from making the playoffs this year? Waiting for Clemens could be the difference from making the playoffs and not making it, even if they do sign him next month.

MattyHo4Life
05-03-2006, 06:50 PM
No .. its just business. Clemens isnt hurting the game, not one bit.

I don't blame Clemens one bit. He's just following the rules.

Astrobuddy
05-03-2006, 06:54 PM
I dont think Clemens would have made a damn bit of a difference to this point. Other than 2 maybe 3 loses, the starting pitching has been outstanding. The bullpen has lost the other games.

Clemens will be stronger down the stretch and into the playoffs than the previous 2 years.

MattyHo4Life
05-03-2006, 06:58 PM
I dont think Clemens would have made a damn bit of a difference to this point. Other than 2 maybe 3 loses, the starting pitching has been outstanding. The bullpen has lost the other games.

I agree, and that's why I said just one game. I don't think the difference would be huge, but what if the Astros are one game short of the playoffs? I do think that Clemens would have won at least one more game for them.

Astrobuddy
05-03-2006, 07:13 PM
By replacing who?

Pettitte? 4 loses

Oswalt ? 1 loss


Wandy 1 loss , Buchholz 0 and Neive 0 ? The Astros have won every one of their starts and that loss was a bullpen loss.

I loss each, Lidge, Wheeler and Qualls.


Clemens wouldnt have made a difference unless he pitched in place of Pettitte which wasnt going to happen anyway.

MasonBuzz3
05-30-2006, 05:02 PM
Newsday is reporting that Roger Clemens has agreed to a 1 year deal with the Astros worth $3.5 mil per month. Looks like the Astros just bolstered their rotation just a bit

NJReds
05-30-2006, 05:08 PM
Here's a Link (http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/yankees/ny-sprog0530,0,6890705.story?coll=ny-homepage-bigpix2005)

edabbs44
05-30-2006, 05:09 PM
I can't stand Clemens...

Very smart signing by Houston. Even if they don't get back in the mix, I am sure Clemens would force his way out and get a boatload of propects from Boston or NY. It wouldn't surprise me if the contract was contingent on something like this anyway. Plus it boosts the interest in the team until they officially fall out of it.

Team Clark
05-30-2006, 05:30 PM
Good thing....otherwise I would have taken a serious beating on this one. LOL! It's a good thing to have credible sources.

TeamSelig
05-30-2006, 06:20 PM
In more important news, I got to pick up Roger Clemens before anyone else in my fantasy league. :) Boohya!

saboforthird
05-30-2006, 06:35 PM
The Reds just became contenders for 3rd-4th place in the NL Central in my opinion. Ain't no way they're catching St. Louis and staying ahead of Houston. If they don't find their offense SOON (and keep it) the Brewers will be passing them also.

KoryMac5
05-30-2006, 06:44 PM
ESPN News is saying that Houston is denying that report


Houston Astros general manager Tim Purpura denied a report on Tuesday that Roger Clemens had picked a team for 2006, saying the situation was "status quo."

Clemens' agent, Randy Hendricks, and Astros' owner Drayton McLane also denied the report.

Newsday reported on its Web site that Clemens had decided to re-sign with the Astros and an announcement would be made as soon as today.

Purpura denied the report, telling ESPN.com's Jayson Stark, "It's status quo, except for all the media attention we've had."

"We've had no conduct with Roger's people today," said Purpura, adding that the last time he talked to Hendricks was Sunday.

Purpura said he was told then that "Roger was still in the mode of trying to decide what he wants to do." So essentially, Purpura said, "We're just awaiting his decision."

Hendricks told ESPN.com that he hasn't spoken to the Astros on Tuesday.

"Contrary to Newsday, there is no agreement with the Astros," Hendricks said.

McLane also reiterated that Clemens has not signed with the team.

"We haven't finished the deal yet," McLane told the Houston Chronicle. "We've been standing by. Tim or I have talked to him every two or three days. They haven't given us a decision. They haven't said a word to us about it. That's complete news to me. We haven't finalized the deal yet nor has he told us. Boy that's total news to us."

Still, McLane remains optimistic that a deal will get done soon.

I imagine it will still get done soon

KronoRed
05-30-2006, 06:45 PM
Status Quo?

Is that some sort of Texas thing? :D

edabbs44
05-30-2006, 07:41 PM
I guess now that the Bonds saga is over, we need another drawn out story to hear about every day.

Astrobuddy
05-31-2006, 12:17 AM
As an Astros fan, I am tired of the Clemens saga.

But ...... Welcome back Roger ! :jump:


I wish he was bringing bullpen help with him.

dabvu2498
05-31-2006, 08:16 AM
Was that rumor completely debunked yet??? With the Hendricks brothers (Rocket's agents), you never know.

Astrobuddy
05-31-2006, 09:27 AM
Clemens is signing with the Astros. Their is little doubt. It may have got out before all were ready.

Clemens son is about to come off the DL and go back to the Astros A-ball team in Lexington. The Legends are having a promotion on June 8th were a lucky fan gets to take batting practice against who???? Yep, Roger Clemens.

Roger has been working out the last 10 days or so at MMP in Houston.

All signs point to his signing here and it being announced today or tomorrow.

dabvu2498
05-31-2006, 09:30 AM
Astros: Clemens not a done deal
05/30/2006 11:48 PM ET
By Jim Molony / MLB.com

A report of a Rocket re-entry in Houston on Tuesday was news to the Astros.
A Newsday report claiming seven-time Cy Young Award winner Roger Clemens had signed a one-year deal with the Astros was shot down by Astros general manager Tim Purpura as well as Astros owner Drayton McLane Jr. Clemens was not available for comment.

"Absolutely not true," Purpura said when asked to confirm the report that Clemens, 43, had signed a one-year deal with Houston. "There's nothing to it at this point. We had some discussions with his agents (Randy and Alan Hendricks) over the weekend but we're waiting for Roger to make a decision."

Newsday reported the contract is believed to be worth about $3.5 million per month or approximately $10.5 million for the season, depending on when Clemens returns to action.

"I can assure you a deal has not been done," McLane said. "The Hendricks have said to us all the way through that 'the first decision is Roger has to tell them, and he'll tell us if he wants to come back.' They said that as late as last week. They have not gotten back to us. We're waiting on them."

In Arlington, Rangers owner Tom Hicks said he'd been told by Randy Hendricks that Clemens will not be signing with his team.

"We gave it our best shot," Hicks said. "I got a call from Randy Hendricks on Friday and he'd been asked by Roger to convey his thanks but he would not be pitching for the Rangers.

"I'm not sure where he's going. I was told we were not the only team that was getting that call. I was told the family played a large issue so I assume he'll be pitching for Houston."

Clemens, who turns 44 in August, helped the Astros reach the World Series last fall following a season in which the right-hander led the Major Leagues with a 1.87 ERA. The Astros declined to offer him salary arbirtation last winter, forefeiting the right to re-sign him until May 1.

Since then Clemens, who lives in Houston, has indicated if he does return it would be for one of four teams: the Astros, Rangers, Red Sox or Yankees.

The Astros hope to lure Clemens back and are optimistic they will convince him to return for another season. Purpura said no timetable has been given but that he expects an answer soon.

"He knows we'd love to have him back, and I think our chances are as good as any if he does decide to play another year," Purpura said. "I think we'll know something soon one way or another."

McLane was in Temple, Texas and was also surprised at the report.

"I've been confident since January," McLane said. "We waited on them and they said they would get back to us. I talked to Tim about an hour and a half ago. We're very very optimtistic, but we knew that we have to wait to hear back from them. That has not happened yet."

The Astros players watched the television coverage regarding the Clemens rumors prior to Tuesday's game, and a few spoke about the matter after their win over the Cardinals.

Andy Pettitte, Clemens' closest friend on the club, indicated he knows what Clemens has decided to do, but declined to delve further into the matter.

"Before, I had no clue what was going on," Pettitte said. "I've been talking with Roger and I'll leave it up to him to let him share whatever he's going to share whenever it's time to share it. Before, when you all asked me, I didn't know anything. I do know now, but it's not my place to say anything about that, really."

http://houston.astros.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/content/printer_friendly/hou/y2006/m05/d30/c1479396.jsp

shredda2000
05-31-2006, 11:39 AM
It's official...

http://mlb.mlb.com/NASApp/mlb/news/article.jsp?ymd=20060531&content_id=1480965&vkey=news_mlb&fext=.jsp&c_id=mlb

MartyFan
05-31-2006, 11:57 AM
Best thing of all is that I have him in two of my fantasy teams and that the Yankees and Red Sox didn't get him!

CaiGuy
05-31-2006, 12:25 PM
Good for the Astros...Bad for us.

dabvu2498
05-31-2006, 12:35 PM
Making a June 6 start in Lexington... road trip???

Team Clark
05-31-2006, 01:17 PM
The Astros must really feel the need to add to the drama because this deal was agreed upon quite some time ago.