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View Full Version : Is it time for the Reds to tell Jr. where he is going to play



George Foster
04-30-2006, 11:04 PM
This is going to be a big issue in the next week and the weeks to come. If Jr. plays center, were do the Reds play Freel? I think Freel is the Catalyst of the Reds offense. He gets on base, he bothers pitchers, etc. He needs to be in the line-up everyday..period.

When do the Reds tell Jr. "hey..we pay you 12 million dollars a year...you play were we tell you to play, if that is 1st so be it, if that is right field so be it."

Howcome every other player including Dunn has to play were the management wants them to play except for Griffey? Howcome HE desides were he gets to play? I do not feel he is our best option in center field. I think Kearns now has more range and the same or better arm. Why not Kearns in Center, Freel in right, and Jr. playing 1st? Or keep it the same as it is right now, with Freel's range and play Jr. at 1st. When will somebody have the stones to say to Jr. "you are a 36 year old major leaguer with the legs of a 45 year old and you are not going to hurt the cemistry of this ball team, on the field and in the club house by demanding to play center and bat 3rd."

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:19 PM
Who told you Dunn plays where management wants him? Management wants him at first. He didnt want to be there and thats why he is in left field playing with the drunk goggles on. As for him batting 3rd, thats probably where he should be batting. As for CF, he plays there because in this game you dont often tell a Hall of Famer where he plays. Is he the best option there? No. Of course I dont think Freel or Kearns is either. The simple solution is, well there isnt a simple solution. Griffey should probably be in left with Dunn at first and Denorfia in CF. Dunn wont play first and Griffey probably wont play LF. That all said, there isnt anywhere for Freel to play.

TeamBoone
04-30-2006, 11:22 PM
Who told you Dunn plays where management wants him? Management wants him at first. He didnt want to be there and thats why he is in left field playing with the drunk goggles on.

Source please?

I keep hearing a few say this, but I've never seen it in print, thus I figure it's an assumption.

PS - I always thought "drunk" goggles (same as beer goggles?) were equivalent to the girls get prettier at closing time. I'm trying to figure out how that applies to Dunn's play in LF.

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:25 PM
Well Dunn has said he doesnt like first base because he "doesnt get to run around as much as in the outfield". I dont have the source, but its there. I have also heard from several places that Dunn had a gentlemans agreement to the contract that if he signed, he couuld move back to the OF. No writeups of that in newspapers, so technically i guess it is just 'he said she said'

George Foster
04-30-2006, 11:25 PM
Who told you Dunn plays where management wants him? Management wants him at first. He didnt want to be there and thats why he is in left field playing with the drunk goggles on. As for him batting 3rd, thats probably where he should be batting. As for CF, he plays there because in this game you dont often tell a Hall of Famer where he plays. Is he the best option there? No. Of course I dont think Freel or Kearns is either. The simple solution is, well there isnt a simple solution. Griffey should probably be in left with Dunn at first and Denorfia in CF. Dunn wont play first and Griffey probably wont play LF. That all said, there isnt anywhere for Freel to play.

He knew all winter he was the option at 1st after the Casey trade and he still signed a new contract right? He might not want to play first, but he won't cry and wine about it. He would suck-it-up and play first for the team...would Griffey?

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:27 PM
I am pretty sure that if Dunn didnt have a problem playing first, he would be standing over at first every day.

SeeinRed
04-30-2006, 11:30 PM
Source please?

I keep hearing a few say this, but I've never seen it in print, thus I figure it's an assumption.

PS - I always thought "drunk" goggles (same as beer goggles?) were equivalent to the girls get prettier at closing time. I'm trying to figure out how that applies to Dunn's play in LF.

I totally agree, he never said he wouldn't play 1B. He just isn't ready. Period. End of story. You think he is bad in LF, but you think he will be better at 1B where he has very little experience? Doesn't make sense to me. The answer isn't just to put him there and let him work on it right now either. How many times have you seen a player switch positions and loose his hitting stroke, then loose his confidence and become a completely different player. This guy is going to be a super star, don't mess with him.

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 11:31 PM
Yes it's time the Reds told Dunn to play 1st and JR to move to LF

They won't..it's not done that way, but it should be done.

Nugget
04-30-2006, 11:35 PM
Griffey has never stated he isn't willing to move. What he has said is that he is willing to move when they find a better centrefielder.

Whether Freel is better is a matter of opinion.

Also on the Dunn point I believe that Marc has it on his blog that Dunn has told management he prefers to play LF. It is amazing that around the time that Dunn signed his long term contract that the REDS brought in a 1B.

It should also be noted that Junior played LF/RF when he made his return for hamstring surgery.

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:36 PM
I totally agree, he never said he wouldn't play 1B. He just isn't ready. Period. End of story. You think he is bad in LF, but you think he will be better at 1B where he has very little experience? Doesn't make sense to me. The answer isn't just to put him there and let him work on it either. How many times have you seen a player switch positions and loose his hitting stroke, then loose his confidence and become a completely different player. This guy is going to be a super star, don't mess with him.

Please. Adam Dunn is the worst left fielder in baseball not named Barry Bonds. Dunn moving to first base isnt some big deal. Its not a harder position to play. Its not like trying to learn SS or 2B or 3B, its first base. The ball is hit, and in 90% of the cases, you trot over to first and catch a line drive thrown at you. Yeah, you gotta toss a few balls to the second baseman or pitcher on hits you field, and you have to hold runners on....its not like that is something complicated. Dunn is a HUGE target at first base. Balls in the dirt for Aurilia, Dunn can probably catch in the pocket of his glove by reaching for them.

George Foster
04-30-2006, 11:38 PM
Yes it's time the Reds told Dunn to play 1st and JR to move to LF

They won't..it's not done that way, but it should be done.

This is a perfect example of the tail wagging the dog! I tell my employee's what to do and when to do it. I am paying them, not the other way around.
Jr. hurt his knee this time by warming up before the game for God's sakes. Does anybody think this is his last time on the DL this year? If Bench could play third, Dunn or Griffey could play 1st. You come to the park early, and get in extra reps. It's not shortstop, or second...it's first base.

indyred
04-30-2006, 11:40 PM
How many games did JR play in LF?

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:40 PM
Well then send Dunn to first and Griffey to LF. Its the most logical solution. Griffey doesnt have range, but its as good as Dunns at least and he wont run in circles getting to the ball either.

dougdirt
04-30-2006, 11:41 PM
How many games did JR play in LF?

for his career, Griffey has 3 games in LF, 3 in RF and 2 at first base. Every other time its been CF or DH.

savafan
04-30-2006, 11:46 PM
Why can't Freel play 1st? Not that it's the ideal defensive option, but he plays everywhere else, why not first to keep his OBP and speed in the lineup?

KronoRed
04-30-2006, 11:49 PM
He's never played 1st, might as well put JR there.

Jpup
04-30-2006, 11:51 PM
This is going to be a big issue in the next week and the weeks to come. If Jr. plays center, were do the Reds play Freel? I think Freel is the Catalyst of the Reds offense. He gets on base, he bothers pitchers, etc. He needs to be in the line-up everyday..period.

When do the Reds tell Jr. "hey..we pay you 12 million dollars a year...you play were we tell you to play, if that is 1st so be it, if that is right field so be it."

Howcome every other player including Dunn has to play were the management wants them to play except for Griffey? Howcome HE desides were he gets to play? I do not feel he is our best option in center field. I think Kearns now has more range and the same or better arm. Why not Kearns in Center, Freel in right, and Jr. playing 1st? Or keep it the same as it is right now, with Freel's range and play Jr. at 1st. When will somebody have the stones to say to Jr. "you are a 36 year old major leaguer with the legs of a 45 year old and you are not going to hurt the cemistry of this ball team, on the field and in the club house by demanding to play center and bat 3rd."

I doubt Jr. would pull a Soriano and just not go out there. You are laying this on Jr. when there is simply no evidence to base it on.

George Foster
04-30-2006, 11:52 PM
The reason I want Jr. at first is because there is less of a chance for another leg injury. Think about it. You stand idle for two or three innings then in a split second you are running full bore to get a ball in the gap. Not to good for a hamstring with screws to the femor bone. At first, you are involved in more plays keeping the legs lose, but not all-out running for the most part. There is a chance for a leg injury at any position, but I think less of one at 1st.

SeeinRed
04-30-2006, 11:53 PM
Please. Adam Dunn is the worst left fielder in baseball not named Barry Bonds. Dunn moving to first base isnt some big deal. Its not a harder position to play. Its not like trying to learn SS or 2B or 3B, its first base. The ball is hit, and in 90% of the cases, you trot over to first and catch a line drive thrown at you. Yeah, you gotta toss a few balls to the second baseman or pitcher on hits you field, and you have to hold runners on....its not like that is something complicated. Dunn is a HUGE target at first base. Balls in the dirt for Aurilia, Dunn can probably catch in the pocket of his glove by reaching for them.

Two words for you, Alfonzo Soriano. Also, you can't tell me that learning a new position isn't hard, especially when defense isn't what you are paid for any way. Dunn is paid to hit, plain and simple. If he commited 4 errors in one game, but hit 4 homers, which would everyone remember two days later. Besides that, other than getting Freel in the lineup, what other part of that is benifical to the Reds. Outfield defense gets better, but theres no question that the infield defense would be weaker, unless you are going to argue that Hatteberg and Aurilla aren't better defensive first basemen than Dunn, which is just ignorant. Both have better gloves than Dunn. Which would you rather have more of a weakness in, 1B or LF. I personally would rather see Dunn in LF, only having to be involved defensively when the ball is hit to him. The true position he should play is DH, but this is the NL. I already know the next argument is that Freel needs to be in the lineup, and he will be when someone needs a break at 3B, or 2B or any of the OF positions. I think Brandon Phillips has taken over some of that spark plug roll though. He may not be near the OBP guy that Freel is, but he definately has the speed to disrupt pitchers. Phillips is making it easier for Narron to put Freel on the bench in other words.

George Foster
04-30-2006, 11:53 PM
I doubt Jr. would pull a Soriano and just not go out there. You are laying this on Jr. when there is simply no evidence to base it on.

Soriano found out he was not going to get paid, and he had a little change of heart. He plays everyday in left field.

Jpup
04-30-2006, 11:54 PM
Please. Adam Dunn is the worst left fielder in baseball not named Barry Bonds.

Alfonso Soriano says hello. Preston Wilson is no gem either.

Nugget
04-30-2006, 11:54 PM
Actually you put much more strain on your hamstring at first - there were numerous discussions on this last year. When you run out in the field you can at least warm up to it. But at 1B you have to go for the stretch or the leap with the ability to warm up.

I can kind of agree with those who want to move Junior because of his lesser athletic ability these days but a move to first will not limit his chances of injury.

Jpup
04-30-2006, 11:59 PM
Soriano found out he was not going to get paid, and he had a little change of heart. He plays everyday in left field.

no joke, so where is your evidence to support the claim that Jr. refuses to play another posistion?

btw, the reds best option would be to ship him to the AL and let him DH for a couple years.

Johnny Vander m
05-01-2006, 12:00 AM
It's been stated many times that Left or right field is harder on your body than center, slowing up for the walls etc. And JR DID NOT hurt himself in the outfield, it was at bat. Leave Jr in center, use Freel every day replacing LF,CF RF and Second base.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:01 AM
Junior may not be like he used to be, but he is solid. I have said that all year. Give the man a break, you can't expect him to be 25 anymore. The way he anticipates the ball and the route he takes are better than most in baseball, other that Andruw Jones. That nullifies some of the lack of range. Some of those speedsters make great plays every now and then, but mostly make the routine plays a little more hairy by running all over the place. They're speed most of the time just makes up for their lack of judgment.

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:02 AM
Two words for you, Alfonzo Soriano. Also, you can't tell me that learning a new position isn't hard, especially when defense isn't what you are paid for any way. Dunn is paid to hit, plain and simple. If he commited 4 errors in one game, but hit 4 homers, which would everyone remember two days later. Besides that, other than getting Freel in the lineup, what other part of that is benifical to the Reds. Outfield defense gets better, but theres no question that the infield defense would be weaker, unless you are going to argue that Hatteberg and Aurilla aren't better defensive first basemen than Dunn, which is just ignorant. Both have better gloves than Dunn. Which would you rather have more of a weakness in, 1B or LF. I personally would rather see Dunn in LF, only having to be involved defensively when the ball is hit to him. The true position he should play is DH, but this is the NL. I already know the next argument is that Freel needs to be in the lineup, and he will be when someone needs a break at 3B, or 2B or any of the OF positions. I think Brandon Phillips has taken over some of that spark plug roll though. He may not be near the OBP guy that Freel is, but he definately has the speed to disrupt pitchers. Phillips is making it easier for Narron to put Freel on the bench in other words.

Griffey isnt a Soriano type, so that scenario is just a real bad one to try and compare it to. As for moving Dunn to first and Griffey to left, that helps the outfield defense a ton more than leaving Dunn in LF and Griffey at first. As for Hatteberg and Aurilia being better at first than Dunn, I cant say for a fact, as I havent seen Dunn play there much since he started here, so to say its ignorant that he isnt decent over there is probably not so good because I doubt you have seen him there either. The thing with Freel spelling the infield to get PT is a bad one. The oldest guy in the IF he would be spelling for a rest is Lopez, who is all of what, 26? 26 year old guys dont need a day off once a week. Neither do 23 and 24 year old guys at 3rd and 2nd. Freel should be in the lineup, but i really think he is the odd man out once Griffey comes back. He isnt as important to the line up as Griffey is, and he isnt a better option at any of the other positions on the field than anyone else.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:04 AM
He isnt as important to the line up as Griffey is, and he isnt a better option at any of the other positions on the field than anyone else.

How do you figure that?

George Foster
05-01-2006, 12:05 AM
no joke, so where is your evidence to support the claim that Jr. refuses to play another posistion?

btw, the reds best option would be to ship him to the AL and let him DH for a couple years.

Jr. has been quoted several times saying he would move when the Reds have a better centerfielder. I guess he gets to make that decision. He should say, "I'll play were they want me to play, I work for them, they pay me 12 million a year."

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:07 AM
Griffey gives Adam Dunn protection. Its my personal preference, but I would take Griffey in the line up over Freel. He brings more power, he gets on base at a good clip and protects Dunn a little bit, which is something he needs, becuase he hasnt been getting much to drive lately.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:07 AM
Jr. has been quoted several times saying he would move when the Reds have a better centerfielder. I guess he gets to make that decision. He should say, "I'll play were they want me to play, I work for them, they pay me 12 million a year."

who are you to say how Jr. should speak about the situation? The Reds have, at least, 3 guys better than him. All that needs to be done is for Narron to pencil him in the lineup in LF. That would be the end of it.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:08 AM
Griffey gives Adam Dunn protection. Its my personal preference, but I would take Griffey in the line up over Freel. He brings more power, he gets on base at a good clip and protects Dunn a little bit, which is something he needs, becuase he hasnt been getting much to drive lately.

how does Griffey protect Dunn when he bats 3rd and Dunn 5th? The only reason Dunn is batting 3rd, against righties, is that Jr. isn't available.

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:13 AM
Well without Griffey in the line up, who is the other power bat in the line up? Kearns? If Griffey is in the line up, you cant pitch around both of them. Someone is going to get a ball to drive. If Griffey gets on base, it makes it a lot harder ot pitch around Dunn and put another guy on base.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:13 AM
Griffey isnt a Soriano type, so that scenario is just a real bad one to try and compare it to. As for moving Dunn to first and Griffey to left, that helps the outfield defense a ton more than leaving Dunn in LF and Griffey at first. As for Hatteberg and Aurilia being better at first than Dunn, I cant say for a fact, as I havent seen Dunn play there much since he started here, so to say its ignorant that he isnt decent over there is probably not so good because I doubt you have seen him there either.

When did I compare Griffey to Soriano? That was where you said Dunn was the worst LF in baseball. There is now way that you are going to tell me that Dunn could possibly be better than Hatteberg or Aurilla on defense at 1B right now. It is ignorant! You said it yourself, Dunn hasn't played there. He can't just pick up a glove and play 1B and be even decent at it. He is going to be bad for a while. Thats just how it works. Yeah he worked on it this spring, but even he said he didn't really work on it in the off season. The experiment was short lived and was just that, an experiment because they traded WMP and don't have the need to make room for another outfielder. I don't see where you're coming from on that one. It just doesn't make sense to move Dunn right now, because the team is winning if for no other reason, and moving Dunn to 1B is a HUGE change to make during the season. That completely changes this team, and there is no way to say it will be a positive change, or that things could get better than they are right now.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:15 AM
Well without Griffey in the line up, who is the other power bat in the line up? Kearns? If Griffey is in the line up, you cant pitch around both of them. Someone is going to get a ball to drive. If Griffey gets on base, it makes it a lot harder ot pitch around Dunn and put another guy on base.

Freel gets on base more than Jr.

2006
Ryan Freel OBP .442
Ken Griffey Jr. OBP .333

2005
Ryan Freel OBP .371
Ken Griffey Jr. OBP .369

westofyou
05-01-2006, 12:16 AM
I am pretty sure that if Dunn didnt have a problem playing first, he would be standing over at first every day.
“That bag would be pudding for me, but I don’t like it and I won’t take it. I want a chance to move around, which a man doesn’t get a first base.“

George Foster
05-01-2006, 12:17 AM
how does Griffey protect Dunn when he bats 3rd and Dunn 5th? The only reason Dunn is batting 3rd, against righties, is that Jr. isn't available.

I might be wrong about this but with all three of them in the line-up when did Kearns bat 4th? I thought it was Jr., Dunn, Kearns...3,4,5.

If we are having "chemistry" problems disgussing this how are the players going to handle it? Thus the problem.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:19 AM
I might be wrong about this but with all three of them in the line-up when did Kearns bat 4th? I thought it was Jr., Dunn, Kearns...3,4,5.

Oh, no way, gotta split those lefties. :D

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:21 AM
I might be wrong about this but with all three of them in the line-up when did Kearns bat 4th? I thought it was Jr., Dunn, Kearns...3,4,5.

If we are having "chemistry" problems disgussing this how are the players going to handle it? Thus the problem.

EdE or Aurilia

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:23 AM
Freel gets on base more than Jr.

2006
Ryan Freel OBP .442
Ken Griffey Jr. OBP .333

2005
Ryan Freel OBP .371
Ken Griffey Jr. OBP .369

2006, Griffey has such a small sample size you cant use it yet, and last year it was so small it came down to less than 1 at bat. Freel and Griffey get on base at basically the same ratio.

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:25 AM
You said it yourself, Dunn hasn't played there. He can't just pick up a glove and play 1B and be even decent at it. He is going to be bad for a while. Thats just how it works.

So Rich Aurilia playing there 1 time before this season was more experience than Adam Dunn playing there 106 times in his career?

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:29 AM
2006, Griffey has such a small sample size you cant use it yet, and last year it was so small it came down to less than 1 at bat. Freel and Griffey get on base at basically the same ratio.

I agree with that. Thats comparing apples to oranges anyway. Getting on base in Freel's case isn't the same as Griffey's. Griffey is the lineup "protection" because he can take you out of the park. Freel is a table setter, he isn't there to protect the other hitters.

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:31 AM
Thats true, I am not saying Freel isnt important to the line up at all. He really is. I just think Griffey is a little more important. Its just a case where I think Freel ends up the odd man out, and a few other guys have to suffer "days of rest" when they really dont need them, just to get him in the line up.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:33 AM
So Rich Aurilia playing there 1 time before this season was more experience than Adam Dunn playing there 106 times in his career?

Rich is much more defensive oriented that Dunn, and his experience is in the infield. A much, much easier transition than someone not used to taking ground balls. There is a lot to be said for that.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:34 AM
I might be wrong about this but with all three of them in the line-up when did Kearns bat 4th? I thought it was Jr., Dunn, Kearns...3,4,5.

If we are having "chemistry" problems disgussing this how are the players going to handle it? Thus the problem.

4/3 vs righty Jr. 3rd, Dunn 4th, EdE 5th
4/6 vs righty Jr. 3rd, Dunn 4th, Aurilia 5th
4/9 vs righty Jr. 3rd, Dunn 4th, EdE 5th
4/12 vs righty Jr. 3rd, Dunn 4th, EdE 5th

I was wrong. Against lefties, it's always Jr. 3rd, Aurilia 4th, Dunn 5th.

The fact remains that Jr. doesn't protect Dunn.

TeamBoone
05-01-2006, 12:35 AM
Well Dunn has said he doesnt like first base because he "doesnt get to run around as much as in the outfield". I dont have the source, but its there.

Yes, I read the article with that comment.... which was published almost immediately after he was "tapped" to play 1B. I always attributed that comment to Dunn's whacky sense of humor.



I have also heard from several places that Dunn had a gentlemans agreement to the contract that if he signed, he couuld move back to the OF. No writeups of that in newspapers, so technically i guess it is just 'he said she said'

You're right, it was never in the newspapers... in fact, the ONLY place I've seen it is on this board... conjecture only. No one knew this for sure. It was simply a "maybe" that was brought up in conversation after the Pena trade and the Hatteberg pick-up.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:35 AM
Thats true, I am not saying Freel isnt important to the line up at all. He really is. I just think Griffey is a little more important. Its just a case where I think Freel ends up the odd man out, and a few other guys have to suffer "days of rest" when they really dont need them, just to get him in the line up.

Thats also not factoring in the injury factor. Injuries happen, Freel will get his playing time.

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:37 AM
Well in 106 games at first, Dunn's fielding percentage was .987, compared to the league average of .993. Of course, we are again talking a small sample size, but broken up over 4 seasons at first base in small doses, Dunn has played well at first base enough that I think given consistant playing time, he would be quite fine if he isnt already quite fine.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:38 AM
Thats also not factoring in the injury factor. Injuries happen, Freel will get his playing time.

He should be leading off everyday.

IslandRed
05-01-2006, 12:39 AM
So Rich Aurilia playing there 1 time before this season was more experience than Adam Dunn playing there 106 times in his career?

It's safe to say that over Aurilia's career, he's caught a lot more throws and fielded a lot more ground balls. Anyway, any infielder can play first base in a pinch, little or no experience required. That's going the easy direction on the defensive spectrum. Just like you wouldn't sweat a center fielder's ability to play a corner OF spot if necessary even if he'd never set foot there.

Doesn't really have anything to do with Dunn's ability one way or the other. Just sayin'.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:43 AM
Zone Rating Career
Dunn 1B .793
Dunn LF .858

Aurilia 1B .818
Hatteberg 1B .846

dougdirt
05-01-2006, 12:43 AM
It's safe to say that over Aurilia's career, he's caught a lot more throws and fielded a lot more ground balls. Anyway, any infielder can play first base in a pinch, little or no experience required. That's going the easy direction on the defensive spectrum. Just like you wouldn't sweat a center fielder's ability to play a corner OF spot if necessary even if he'd never set foot there.

Doesn't really have anything to do with Dunn's ability one way or the other. Just sayin'.

true, but I am pretty confident that Adam Dunn is fully capable of catching a throw from our infield just as well as Aurilia or Hatteberg. Heck, he even gives them a much bigger and wider target with his size. He does have experience there, and I think he would not hurt the infield defense by making the move and it would definatly help the outfield defense by getting him out of there.

Of course, this is all about pointless, as its not going to happen.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:45 AM
He should be leading off everyday.

I never said he shouldn't, but saying that, and finding a place for him are two different things. Nobody has given a true solution to this problem. That solution has got to be made with the understanding that Dunn won't go to 1B and Griffey is the Reds CF for the time being. Maybe a trade, but under the current circumstances, as dougdirt said, Freel is the odd man out. Again though, I think some of the urgency to start Freel was relieved by aquiring Phillips. He has proven to be a spark too, but doesn't get on base at the same rate.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:48 AM
I never said he shouldn't, but saying that, and finding a place for him are two different things. Nobody has given a true solution to this problem. That solution has got to be made with the understanding that Dunn won't go to 1B and Griffey is the Reds CF for the time being. Maybe a trade, but under the current circumstances, as dougdirt said, Freel is the odd man out. Again though, I think some of the urgency to start Freel was relieved by aquiring Phillips. He has proven to be a spark too, but doesn't get on base at the same rate.

If all else fails, you have to bench Phillips in favor of Freel until something is worked out or someone is injured.

TeamBoone
05-01-2006, 12:50 AM
Of course, this is all about pointless, as its not going to happen.

I wouldn't be a bit surprised to see Dunn at 1B next year. IIRC, both Aurilia and Hatteberg signed one-yr contracts.

I kind of think Dunn was moved back to the OF because of the collective impact of the RA/SH signings and WMP being traded. Had one of those things not happened, I truly think he would be at 1B this year.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:52 AM
true, but I am pretty confident that Adam Dunn is fully capable of catching a throw from our infield just as well as Aurilia or Hatteberg. Heck, he even gives them a much bigger and wider target with his size. He does have experience there, and I think he would not hurt the infield defense by making the move and it would definatly help the outfield defense by getting him out of there.

Of course, this is all about pointless, as its not going to happen.

To clear my thoughts up, I don't doubt that Dunn could eventually move to 1B. He just won't be that good (to put it gently) right now. Why mess with the team right now? The fact is that he would hurt the infield defense right now. Key words in all of this being "right now." If the Reds fall out of contention, I have no problem moving Dunn to 1B and letting him work on it, but not right now.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 12:53 AM
To clear my thoughts up, I don't doubt that Dunn could eventually move to 1B. He just won't be that good (to put it gently) right now. Why mess with the team right now? The fact is that he would hurt the infield defense right now. Key words in all of this being "right now." If the Reds fall out of contention, I have no problem moving Dunn to 1B and letting him work on it, but not right now.

The problem would be solved if the Reds would trade Jr.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 12:54 AM
If all else fails, you have to bench Phillips in favor of Freel until something is worked out or someone is injured.

No way, are you kidding? Phillips has won the spot. He is the present, and future at 2B. Freel, again is the odd man out. Phillips is much better defensively, and is tearing it up in his first couple weeks. How do you bench him for Freel?

Nugget
05-01-2006, 12:59 AM
The problem would be solved if the Reds would trade Jr.

There is no problem to solve. It would make the life of REDZONERS who want to move Junior out of REDS. I was wondering how long Junior needed to be on the DL before people started calling for his head.

Jpup
05-01-2006, 01:04 AM
No way, are you kidding? Phillips has won the spot. He is the present, and future at 2B. Freel, again is the odd man out. Phillips is much better defensively, and is tearing it up in his first couple weeks. How do you bench him for Freel?

Freel OBP .442
Phillips OBP .359

Freel Career .276/.374/.374
Phillips Career .225/.260/.346

Freel Career ZR 2B .797
Phillips Career ZR 2B .860

Phillips is much better at 2nd base, but Phillips is not in the same area code as Freel on offense.

SeeinRed
05-01-2006, 01:10 AM
Freel OBP .442
Phillips OBP .359

Freel Career .276/.374/.374
Phillips Career .225/.260/.346

Freel Career ZR 2B .797
Phillips Career ZR 2B .860

Phillips is much better at 2nd base, but Phillips is not in the same area code as Freel on offense.

You might as well throw out Phillip's stats. They are useless here. It is just like he is a new player. His problems in Cleveland were well documented. Its a completely different situation. Phillips may not be quite the table setter Freel can be at times, but Freel is by no means an offensive star. He gets on base and steals some bases. Phillips has more dimensional in that he also has some pop. If it comes down to Phillips or Freel at 2B right now, give me Phillips any day. Freel will have to find playing time else where.

Rounding Third
05-01-2006, 01:16 AM
Then who leads off? With Freel out of the lineup we don't have a leadoff hitter. There HAS to be a trade to accomadate the jam we have. Freel's OBP is through the roof compared to Phillips. Freel's speed is also better than Phillips. Freel gets on base and makes things happens, exactly what a leadoff hitter needs to do. Phillips and Freel are both playing extremely well this year, but do you really believe Phillips can play at this level all year? Freel has played consistantly the past 2 years with high OBP and SBs.

SirFelixCat
05-01-2006, 03:39 AM
IMO, the smartest thing is for Freel to stay in CF...his range is VASTLY greater than Jr's...

Shift him to LF, dammit, and Dunn to 1B. Or, just trade Jr, but then we bring up DeNo and the same problem persists....it's a good problem to have, but grrrrrrr.

KronoRed
05-01-2006, 04:21 AM
Trade em all for pitching ;)

flyer85
05-01-2006, 08:54 AM
I have no idea where the front office wants certain players to play. That said I do feel pretty certain that the best short term solution involves Dunn at 1B and Freel in the OF(preferably in CF). Will the team move Dunn to 1b and Jr to LF? I personally doubt either will happen. I have no idea if either player is willing to move or if management wants them to but I sure hope they are more interested in winning than in anything else.

Moving Dunn to 1b would at least open up the possibility of Denorfia becoming an everyday player the next time Jr gets injured (and it won't be that long).