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NDRed
05-03-2006, 02:30 AM
I know most have written off Paul Wilson and I was wondering why. He was 11-6 with 184 innings in 2004 and coming back from an injury is nothing new for Wilson.

In his first rehab start (4/27- Dayton) he pitched 7 innings, and that was his first action since 5/16/05. Tonight for AAA Louisville he had 6 innings, 2 runs.

I'm not saying we are getting a stud back but how good does Wilson need to be to be an upgrade over Williams? If he can occasionally hit 88 MPH and with his experience he is a big upgrade.

Is there something I am missing that precludes his from contributing soon?

savafan
05-03-2006, 02:35 AM
I don't know that Wilson's arm can continue to come back injury after injury and still be effective. You have to think that there will come a time, probably sooner rather than later, when he just won't be able to pitch anymore.

That said, I hope he can come back and replace Dave Williams in the rotation. Even on days when Williams pitches a good game, he leaves me unimpressed.

NDRed
05-03-2006, 02:40 AM
You are right, but we only want him to come back ONE MORE TIME.

Just watch Wilson will come back, rack up 10-12 wins and some idiot will give him a 2 yr 8.5 million dollar contract.


OOPS.....................

Dunner44
05-03-2006, 09:49 AM
Anyone catch the game? What was Paul hitting on the radar? I thought I heard he was hovering around 83 at Dayton (Thats Dave Williams-esque speed right there... hide the children!)

dougdirt
05-03-2006, 10:26 AM
Dunner44, I didnt get to listen to the game or hear what he was throwing yet, but I do know in Dayton they were saying his velocity was getting better, but wasnt where it needs to be yet. I would assume he was a little higher than 83 last night, but cant say that for certain.

M2
05-03-2006, 10:31 AM
Rather than put another piece of roadkill like Wilson in the rotation, I'd be willing to swallow his contract and move him to another team for a AAA guy who might be able to help out of the pen.

NDRed
05-03-2006, 11:56 AM
http://www.courier-journal.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060503/SPORTS07/605030465/1036

Columbus clips Bats, 4-2
Reds' rehabbing Wilson starts slow, finishes strong

By Michael Grant
mgrant@courier-journal.com
The Courier-Journal



The Cincinnati Reds, owners of the best record in major league baseball, received some good news last night. Paul Wilson shook off some early struggles to finish strong while making a rehabilitation start in the Louisville Bats' 4-2 loss to the Columbus Clippers at Louisville Slugger Field.

Wilson's second rehab start was considerably better than his first. This time the right-hander gave up a run in each of the first two innings before settling down. He finished his six-inning stint allowing the two runs and six hits with one walk and a strikeout.



Wilson threw 91 pitches, 53 for strikes. He retired the side in his final inning, helped out by a nice grab by left fielder Andy Abad.

Wilson, who had surgery to repair a torn rotator cuff and labrum last June, allowed six runs and 10 hits in seven innings in his first rehab start, on April 27 at Class A Dayton. If the right-hander continues to progress he could provide a boost to the rotation of the Reds, who have a two-game lead over the Houston Astros in the National League Central.

"It's about figuring out how to get it done with the arm that you have now and trusting that," Wilson said. "I went from A ball to Triple-A ball. These guys are obviously professional hitters. I felt like I was making good pitches. I threw good pitches when I had to."

Wilson will make at least one more rehabilitation start for the Bats, on Sunday at Charlotte.

"He got people out," Louisville manager Rick Sweet said. "He spotted the ball pretty well. He hit spots that he wanted to hit."

Wilson's shaky beginning was punctuated when Columbus' Melky Cabrera hammered the game's first pitch for a 387-foot home run to right center. The crowd of 6,985 held its collective breath when the next batter, Kevin Reese, hit a high fly ball in the same direction. It died on the warning track.

"It was disheartening," Wilson said of the home run. "You're just trying to get a first-pitch fastball over the plate. The guy hits it out of the park. There's not a worse feeling. But you don't let one homer bother you."

Louisville tied it in the bottom half when Abad launched a two-out home run.

Wilson surrendered back-to-back one-out doubles to Kevin Thompson and Will Nieves in the second as Columbus took a 2-1 lead.

In the eighth, Cabrera hit a two-out, two-run single to make the score 4-1.

The Bats got the game's final run in the eighth on Earl Snyder's RBI double.

Jose Veras worked a perfect ninth to save it for Matt Childers (1-2) as Columbus earned a split of the two-game series.

The Bats will start an eight-game road trip tomorrow when they begin a four-game series at Charlotte.

Note
Bats infielder Aaron Holbert was activated from the disabled list. He had been on the DL since the season's start after undergoing arthroscopic surgery on his right knee.

Michael Grant can be reached at (502) 582-4069

Dunner44
05-03-2006, 12:19 PM
Dunner44, I didnt get to listen to the game or hear what he was throwing yet, but I do know in Dayton they were saying his velocity was getting better, but wasnt where it needs to be yet. I would assume he was a little higher than 83 last night, but cant say that for certain.

Sounds good, hope he can get it back up to the 88/89 range. He'll never be the fire-baller he was for the mets, but if he can get it back up there, it will better complement his breaking pitches and his sinker. Some long outs for Pauly it sounds like, but I hope he does well. Even if he just pitches long relief up in the bigs from now on, I hope he does well. Paul Wilson being healthy can only help this club.

Big Daddy P
05-03-2006, 06:07 PM
This guy is awful. He stinks on ice. I'd rather dig up Johnny Vandemeer and put a ball in his cold bony hand than see Wilson pitch again.

Please, Reds management. This guy's been well done toast for years.

Reds1
05-03-2006, 06:25 PM
This guy is awful. He stinks on ice. I'd rather dig up Johnny Vandemeer and put a ball in his cold bony hand than see Wilson pitch again.

Please, Reds management. This guy's been well done toast for years.


Welcome. Nice positive 1st post. LOL

I think I'll just wait and see to comment here. We are talking about a 5th starter change. I still can't figure out if I like Williams in the role. We have Belise, EZ when Milton returns, Wilson, and Williams. Right now I think I'd like to see EZ, but it's hard to tell.

registerthis
05-03-2006, 06:45 PM
Welcome. Nice positive 1st post. LOL

I think that's actually Dave Williams.

James B.
05-03-2006, 08:02 PM
I look forward to seeing Wilson in a Reds uniform again. He has not had good stuff for a while now but he still finds ways to get guys out when he is healthy. He will not be our #1 starter like he was a few years ago. He still has to be a better pitcher than Williams.

SeeinRed
05-03-2006, 08:29 PM
If nothing else, this guy is a battler. He will give it his all, and I think he may have a little bit left in him. We'll see, but him being in the dugout can only help this team. I'm pullin for him.

2001MUgrad
05-03-2006, 08:39 PM
I saw he would be very serviceable in a long releif role at first anyway. Anything to get rid of Chris Hammond or Rick White. If he seems okay in that position why not use him to get rid of Williams. But honestly the way the starters are pitching into the 7th and 8th inning consistently middle releif isn't normally an issue except with Dave Williams pitches.

flyer85
05-04-2006, 11:21 AM
from the DDN about his start in Louisville


"His velocity isn't what everyone would like (81-82 miles an hour as opposed to his normal 87-88)

Wilson currently makes Williams look like a hard thrower. The odds of Wilson being using and adding anything of value to this team are slim and none.

savafan
05-04-2006, 12:19 PM
from the DDN about his start in Louisville



Wilson currently makes Williams look like a hard thrower. The odds of Wilson being using and adding anything of value to this team are slim and none.

Isn't there more to pitching than just velocity though?

M2
05-04-2006, 12:25 PM
Isn't there more to pitching than just velocity though?

Sure, but you can't put a batting practice fastball over the plate in the majors unless you've got a killer secondary pitch to go with it. Wilson doesn't have that.

flyer85
05-04-2006, 12:27 PM
Isn't there more to pitching than just velocity though?he also is unlikely to have enough separation between fastball and changeup.

savafan
05-04-2006, 12:29 PM
he also is unlikely to have enough separation between fastball and changeup.

Good point.

Dunner44
05-04-2006, 02:35 PM
Time to learn the knuckler paulie.... either that or else just throw the change and the sink... forget the fastball

M2
05-04-2006, 02:39 PM
either that or else just throw the change and the sink... forget the fastball

My guess that you've just hit upon what he'll try, only throwing the fastball well inside (in the hopes it will look tasty and hitters will pull it foul). Basically that requires he throw strikes on an extremely infrequent basis, kind of like a late model Steve Avery. That's what you have to do when you've got nothing.

Dunner44
05-04-2006, 02:48 PM
My guess that you've just hit upon what he'll try, only throwing the fastball well inside (in the hopes it will look tasty and hitters will pull it foul). Basically that requires he throw strikes on an extremely infrequent basis, kind of like a late model Steve Avery. That's what you have to do when you've got nothing.


Yeah, what does paul's pitch list consist of? If i remember right, he had 5 pitches at one point. Sink, Change, 4 seamer for sure. And then he had what? A curve and a 2 seamer? Curve and a slider? He's gonna be throwing off speed crap all night, so he better have his location down pat.

NDRed
05-04-2006, 03:22 PM
I think it is reasonable to assume with only 2 starts in 13 months that there is a chance his fastball and location my yet improve.

KySteveH
05-04-2006, 03:35 PM
he also is unlikely to have enough separation between fastball and changeup.
Worse yet, Wilson usualy relies on his splitter which usually comes in at 82-83, and has just enough difference from his "fast"ball to be effective. If he's only hitting 82 with the heater, he's got nothing but his cutter and curve, and the curve doesn't fool anyone.

flyer85
05-04-2006, 03:35 PM
I think it is reasonable to assume with only 2 starts in 13 months that there is a chance his fastball and location my yet improve.if they do it will more likely be in 2007.

KySteveH
05-04-2006, 03:40 PM
Yeah, what does paul's pitch list consist of? If i remember right, he had 5 pitches at one point. Sink, Change, 4 seamer for sure. And then he had what? A curve and a 2 seamer? Curve and a slider? He's gonna be throwing off speed crap all night, so he better have his location down pat.
4-seam, splitter, cutter, curve. Doesn't throw a straight (3-finger) change or a circle change, I don't think. Uses curve and splitter as change of pace.

15fan
05-04-2006, 03:42 PM
"Wilson's shaky beginning was punctuated when Columbus' Melky Cabrera hammered the game's first pitch for a 387-foot home run to right center. The crowd of 6,985 held its collective breath when the next batter, Kevin Reese, hit a high fly ball in the same direction. It died on the warning track.

"It was disheartening," Wilson said of the home run. "You're just trying to get a first-pitch fastball over the plate. The guy hits it out of the park. There's not a worse feeling. But you don't let one homer bother you."

.....

Psssst. Hey Paul.

The "Pitch to Contact" regime left town a coupla months ago.

Danny Serafini
05-05-2006, 04:43 PM
Looks like he's had another setback. According to the team press notes he won't start Sunday as scheduled due to shoulder fatigue.

flyer85
05-05-2006, 05:06 PM
Looks like he's had another setback. According to the team press notes he won't start Sunday as scheduled due to shoulder fatigue.the odds of the Reds getting anything useful out of Wilson were extremely long to begin with.

Dunner44
05-05-2006, 06:42 PM
As long as paul keeps trying, I'll keep supporting him. He may never make it back to the bigs to play any part of his contract, but i'll respect him no matter what. Guy loves the game.