PDA

View Full Version : RANT: Evil, evil Cubs fans



vaticanplum
05-04-2006, 07:24 PM
Warning: irrational, one-sided, low-maturity-level rant to follow:

I have had it with Cubs fans. If anyone ever again says a word to me about Yankees/Red Sox/Cardinals/Giants [fill in team here] fans and their arrogance, ignorance, or obnoxiousness, I am going to silently point them in the direction of Wrigleyville and watch their mouths drop when they get there. I have lived in Cincinnati, New York (they have two teams there), San Francisco, Seattle, and have visited stadiums in others too, and until I moved to Chicago (they have two teams here too, and one of them is even good, not that you'd ever know it), I had never, ever encountered anything like this. It is not the fact that they love a team that happens to be a rival of one of mine. I really have no serious problems with any other team in the division, nor any team in the division of my Yankees except for Boston. Quite the contrary, I have been researching the a year and a half now for a project, and I have great respect for the team and its fascinating, almost endearing history. But the fans have almost taken away anything I might have felt for the team itself, because of the way so many of them seem to view their own team, other teams, other fans, and even the sport.

Look, Cubs fans. You love a baseball team. I think that's wonderful. Your team has a history of heartbreak. I think you play that up a little bit, but there's no denying a lot of it, and you know God bless you for playing it up, because baseball heartbreak is one of the toughest kinds. I feel for you. Do you know why these things are? Because I love a baseball team too, and I have had baseball heartbreak too. What's that you say? That's impossible? The Cubs are the only team and and also the only team that has ever lost? And you're not going to listen to my infinite facts disputing these two claims because you're too busy vomiting your Jager shots on that Harry Caray statue over there? Fine then. That give me time to put all of the reasons why you drive me to insanity in convenient list form, and maybe my fellow Reds fans will be interested in hearing them.

1. Cubs fans believe their team is special and that everyone else thinks it is special too. I love the Reds; they are a special team. They started baseball, they fielded the greatest team in the history of the sport, and they boast a higher percentage of pretty uniforms than any other team in baseball historically speaking (present uniforms excepted). I love the Yankees; they are a special team. They are the greatest team in history and they play in the most extraordinary city in the world. My friend loves the Orioles; they are a special team...I have another friend who loves the Royals; they are a special team...do you see how this works, Cubs fans? Yes, you are unique, and so is your team. So is every other team. That's why there are different ones. I've had Cubs fans seem genuinely baffled when I tell them that I am not a Cubs fan. And then it gets better:

Exemplary actual quote: "You're a Reds fan? [pause] Why?" And not why in the way of, "Gosh, I'm really interested, why don't you tell me about your team and how you came by your fandom" but why in the way of "HUH?!?! People like OTHER TEAMS?!?" I am quite used to explaining my Yankees fandom and I have a stock speech prepared for inquisitors. But the Yankees are a HATED team. Cubs just cannot fathom a love of ANY other team, even a non-hated one.

2. Cubs fans believe that their fandom is special. (extension of point 1) If, by chance, a Cubs fan can get beyond point 1 and accept the fact that there are other teams that have fans, they still hit a standstill here. Another fan may love his team, but there is no way he can love it AS MUCH as the Cubs fans love the Cubs. It's a mystical thing with them. Because they have not won a World Series in eighty gajillion years, this somehow makes their fandom stronger. Now, I'm not arguing the devotion and loyalty of Cubs fans. Many baseball fans would have fallen off the bandwagon long ago (although I now believe that many fans have since jumped on the LOSER VICTIM bandwagon, but I'm not even going to get into that today). So kudos to them for sticking around. But the jump from "loyal fans" to "more loyal fans than any other team" is baffling to me. Talk to a Royals fan, will you. I never hear them complaining about their horrible horrible team or the curse of the call, and you know why? Probably because they're sitting at the ballpark watching the game instead of making love to that Harry Caray statue over there.

Exemplary actual quote: "I didn't choose the Cubs. They chose me. It's that kind of connection." Ahhhh I get it! No one else can possibly know what you feel for your team, because we all sat down with Bill James's books and chose our favorite teams based on who was most likely to not disappoint us statistically!! Whereas you were just shot in the heart by Cupid's Arrow of Love and Loserdom!!! The great -- the GREAT -- irony in this is that this quote came from, I kid you not, someone who has been following the Cubs since the fall of 2003. If that's not choosing a baseball team, I don't know what is. And the thing is, I hate myself for even thinking this way. I don't begrudge anybody any their fandom if it's genuine. I don't care if your parents played radio baseball games for you in the womb or if you became a fan at 40 years old because Sammy Sosa knocked you unconscious with a foul ball and paid your hospital bills. Heck, I came around to the Yankees later in my life and I think about them morning noon and night. But the "it's that kind of connection" part...this, to me, is critical in Cubsland. When you are a Cubs fan, you have a connection to a team unlike any other. aaaaaaaaahhhhhhhhh. And this drives me to think this way.

Cubs fans are fans of the current Cubs team. They are not baseball fans. Ask a Cubs fan about Ichiro. Ask a Cubs fan about David Wright. Ask a Cubs fan about Joe Crede, even. They'll mumble a few words, then go back to talking about how Kerry Wood is due to be back any day now. Heck, ask one about Hack Wilson. You're likely to get a look of confusion, a furrowed brow, and a response of, "I dunno...hey, you wanna make out?" Some of them know what's going on, but they don't care to talk about it. They only want to talk about the Cubs. And since the Cubs are the only team and their fans are the most specialist ever in the history of the whole wide world, they assume that you feel the same way.

Exemplary direct quote: (Wrigley Field, Reds at Cubs, April 11, 2006. Bronson Arroyo pitching for the Reds against the Cubs for the second time this season) (5th or 6th inning, ie. well through the lineups already) "Hey, where's that Wily Mo dude?"

NOW. The thing is, I have known some wonderful Cubs fans in my life. There are a lot, a lot, of wonderful Cubs fans in fact; knowledgable, gracious, warm-hearted people who enjoy watching any baseball game, even if it's the Cubs against the Cardinals. I know two Cubs fans who are two of my loveliest friends and fellow baseball fans, though it's worth noting that neither of them lives in Chicago anymore. But the reason that I've reached my breaking point is that I used to think that those fans were the majority, and the ones sobbing and throwing up on Harry Caray over there were just a few burnt cookies who didn't spoil the batch. I'm starting to think that I was wrong. I'm starting to think, at the very least, that the good Cubs fans are dying out, and are being replaced by all the ones crawling on Harry Caray over there, who these days comprise the majority of my neighborhood and, more to the point, the crowd at Wrigley Field. What do you guys think?

There are at least three more points on this. I will continue at another time.

rdiersin
05-04-2006, 07:32 PM
Living in Northern Indiana for awhile now, and through my time at my undergrad, I'd have to say that your description is dead on VP. I enjoyed that bit of writing a lot, and it is pretty much the same impression that I have gotten. Cubs fans are definitely an interesting bunch.

creek14
05-04-2006, 07:33 PM
Brilliant.

And as a past resident of Chicago I can confirm - every word is true.

Hap
05-04-2006, 08:11 PM
Do they know that Mark Grace won a ring with another team?

TC81190
05-04-2006, 08:12 PM
Do they know that Mark Grace won a ring with another team?

NO HE DIDN'T






:D

Cyclone792
05-04-2006, 08:13 PM
I've been down to GABP enough in recent seasons when the Cubs were in town to realize how Cubs fans infiltrate our park and seemingly try to take it over (there's tons of threads on RZ about this too).

One Cubs fan scenario I witnessed was simply a night to remember, and occurred circa April, 2003. Two buddies and I were in the bleachers for a Reds/Cubs game and like always we had quite a few Cubs fans sitting amongst us. In particular was a group of a half dozen guys in their mid to late 20s, and they were a loud, boisterous group. What made it funny, however, was they were heckling their own team, not the Reds, and the Cubs weren't exactly playing an error free ballgame.

Here's a synopsis of what went down:

Cubs third base coach Wendell Kim makes a coaching blunder, sending a Cubs baserunner to his eventual doom and costing the Cubs more scoring opportunities.
Cubs fans: YOU SUCK, WENDELL KIM!!! YOU ... .

[i]Cubs starting pitcher Shawn Estes starts getting rocked.
Cubs fans: YOU SUCK ESTES!!! [Again, much much more than this, but it's not clean for the board]

Estes remains in the game and actually strolls to the plate to hit. Estes was a left-handed pitcher.
Cubs fans: ESTES SUCKS!! HIT HIM ON THE HAND!!! THE LEFT ONE!!! [Once again, much more, but not clean]

This went on for a solid five or six innings. Whenever a Cubs player or coach did something unapproving - which was about every batter and play that occurred - a barrage of insults would be unleashed about said player or coach. Me personally, I wasn't offended, and some of it was actually somewhat humorous, but there were also some families with children in the vicinity and some of the parents were getting quite upset (and I couldn't blame them one bit).

Not surprisingly, the longer the profanity ensued, the more vocal other fans (mostly Reds fans) were about being upset, and guys starting throwing profanity at each other. A few sharp words and finger pointing later, a beer flies across the bleachers, fists get raised and a pair of guys are about ready to bull rush each other. It took wives/friends sitting around them to prevent an all out brawl, and it was one of those situations that was so loud and intense that the left fielder (I think it was Dunn) was breaking his neck to see the action.

Cops are soon swarming the area, and guys are being led out of the bleachers, presumably being moved or ejected from the game. This entire time my buddies and I were having a casual conversation with the one "calm and sensible" Cubs fan in that group as well as another casual baseball fan - neither a Cubs nor Reds fan - who was just in town on business and seeing a game for something do.

After the near fight, one exchange went like this:

My buddies and I: You've got an interesting crew here.
Calm Cubs fan: This isn't really uncommon as we like to enjoy ourselves at the game. Some of the boys get a little intense when stuff goes wrong on the field.
The other casual baseball fan: That guy [who just got led away by police] sure put on a scene. What's he do for a living?
Calm Cubs fan: Oh, he's a school teacher.

Cubs fans, sometimes ya just gotta laugh ;)

EDIT: Gotta love Retrosheet ... here's the boxscore of that specific game: http://www.retrosheet.org/boxesetc/B04040CIN2003.htm. In the top of the 4th inning, Wendell Kim waved Mark Bellhorn from first to third on a single to right field and Kearns gunned him down. If Wendell Kim only knew the verbal abuse he took up in the bleachers for that blunder ...

KronoRed
05-04-2006, 08:17 PM
NO HE DIDN'T






:D
Well to them he didn't, since their is no other REAL baseball team other then the cubs ;)

top6
05-04-2006, 08:25 PM
I agree with this rant 100%, as a current resident of Chicago. However, I am disturbed by your defense of the Yankees, especially given your contention that Cubs fans think they are the center of the universe. Nobody - and I mean nobody - thinks their team is more important than Yankees fans.

CrackerJack
05-04-2006, 08:33 PM
I love Chicago and I love Wrigley, can't help it.

Their fans never bothered me, they're amusing, I really don't get annoyed by them much, even though i can see where they can be if you take it all that seriously.

The Reds are in my heart - it's a family/generational thing and despite how uptight, corporate and oppressive Cincinnati is generally speaking - it's my home and I appreciate it's history.

I guess I don't know any Cubs fans personally, and maybe that's why I really don't have an opinion other than the fact I love going up to Chicago in the summer.

Chip R
05-04-2006, 08:38 PM
Your thread title is redundant. ;)

westofyou
05-04-2006, 08:38 PM
Cubs Fans spelled backwards is Snaf Sbuc

oneupper
05-04-2006, 08:47 PM
I'm glad no cubs fan has asked me to make out.

Sham
05-04-2006, 08:53 PM
Cubs Fans spelled backwards is Snaf Sbuc

Best post ever. I love it.

A drunk HC is the only endearing thing about the Cubs IMO.

Yachtzee
05-04-2006, 09:07 PM
Having lived in Chicago for a few years, I quickly learned that there are two kinds of Cubs fans:

1. The real Cubs fans. These folks don't actually live in Chicago anymore. They found the housing costs in Wrigleyville and the surrounding vicinity has become so gentrified that they can no longer live in the city. If they are actually able to find a place in Chicago, it's usually in a place like Lincoln Square or Rogers Park.

2. The "Lincoln Park Trixies" and their boyfriends, the "Chads". These are folks who went to any one of a number of major Midwestern colleges and promptly moved to Chicago after graduation. Miami University has significant representation among this group. They're epicenter is, where else, Lincoln Park, and they can often be seen hitting various trendy bars on the North Side, shopping for home furnishings at Pottery Barn and Crate and Barrel, and selling their soul for a 1 bedroom condo on N. Sheffield. There used to be a website dedicated to them. Here's the wayback machine entry: http://web.archive.org/web/20010302104631/http://www.lptrixie.com/

These folks aren't Cubs fans. The Cubs are an accoutrement, like a nice handbag or an Anne Geddes "Babies in Flowerpots" print.

Big Klu
05-04-2006, 09:25 PM
Having lived in Chicago for a few years, I quickly learned that there are two kinds of Cubs fans:

1. The real Cubs fans. These folks don't actually live in Chicago anymore. They found the housing costs in Wrigleyville and the surrounding vicinity has become so gentrified that they can no longer live in the city. If they are actually able to find a place in Chicago, it's usually in a place like Lincoln Square or Rogers Park.

2. The "Lincoln Park Trixies" and their boyfriends, the "Chads". These are folks who went to any one of a number of major Midwestern colleges and promptly moved to Chicago after graduation. Miami University has significant representation among this group.

Miami?! Yet another reason to hate the Cubs! :D

Go Reds!
Go Bobcats!

vaticanplum
05-04-2006, 11:12 PM
I agree with this rant 100%, as a current resident of Chicago. However, I am disturbed by your defense of the Yankees, especially given your contention that Cubs fans think they are the center of the universe. Nobody - and I mean nobody - thinks their team is more important than Yankees fans.

I might have given this some credence before I moved to Chicago. Not anymore. First of all, I think Yankees fans get a bad rap because people approach them defensively. Everybody hates the Yankees except Yankees fans; there are very few people who are neutral about them. So Yankees fans are generally forced to defend their team from the outset. I can barely wear my Yankees cap here without getting harrassed, often by people who couldn't name a single pitcher in their starting rotation.

Second of all, while this may be true for Yankees fans outside of New York, but it's not within the city. Do they love their team? yes, like any good fan. Are they aware of the illustrious history, and do they refer to it? Sure, and they have every right to (except when used as a fallacy in a separate argument). But they do not think that their team is the only one. And, far more importantly in my book, they know their baseball and will converse with you intelligently about it.

What someone else said about the Chads and the Trixies is kind of true. HUGE generalizations forthcoming, and I'm obviously biased, but...Lee Elia's rant wasn't too far off. Wrigley anymore is a place for a certain group of people to get togther, get wasted, and shout obscenities. Yankee Stadium is a place where a very wide cross-section of New York goes to watch and discuss (yes, sometimes loudly) a baseball game. I can tell you that I've never encountered the kind of hooliganism (yes, I'm 150 years old) in Yankee Stadium that I've encountered here.

In terms of the baseball knowledge, it's worth noting that I've never heard a Cubs fan pipe up on this board. I guess it's possible that they're lurking, but we have vocal Cards, Astros, Yankees, Red Sox fans, among others, on this board...all in an effort to get familiar with the perspective of another team's fans and maybe share or gain some new knowledge. I truly think that a large portion of Cubs fans aren't interested in this. Or perhaps they are illiterate. And don't give me any of this "maybe they have lives" stuff...I see them at night, after games, in Wrigleyville, and I can tell you that these lightweights are all passed out in front of the Harry Caray statue by 11 pm.

God, I'm a snob. I did not used to be this way. Cubbies, what have you done!!

Betterread
05-04-2006, 11:22 PM
I agree with this rant 100%, as a current resident of Chicago. However, I am disturbed by your defense of the Yankees, especially given your contention that Cubs fans think they are the center of the universe. Nobody - and I mean nobody - thinks their team is more important than Yankees fans.

I love the Reds but the NY Yankees organization is the zenith of U.S. baseball. Their history is the most interesting, they are the most successful, and they represent the game the most accurately (whether you care to admit it or not, the Yankees are baseball - right now they are the greediest, most arrogant professional team in the USA and that is baseball and that is the USA at this point in time): they are most culturally relevant professional sports team in the USA right now and for most of the 20th century as well.

BuckWoody
05-04-2006, 11:22 PM
What's the old quote about Chicago baseball? "White Sox fans love baseball, Cubs fans love Wrigley Field." :)

butlerbulldogs
05-04-2006, 11:51 PM
great post, when i was a student at butler university, the majority of the students were from Chicago or the classic "a suburb of Chicago," man did i love the bartowski incident :) when i was there

Strikes Out Looking
05-04-2006, 11:57 PM
I learned to hate the Cubs in 1984. While a student at IU, many supposed "Cub fans" began to root for them as they somehow won the NL East. I was gleeful and giddy as they choked in the playoffs to SD. First and only time in my life that I rooted for Steve Garvey!

Dunner44
05-05-2006, 12:35 AM
Yeah, I have a roommate who's a cubs fan he describes his fandom me as "but look, they've not won a series in a long time, and only been to the playoffs a couple of times. So I have to like them." Then he has me look up the scores for him when I talk about the Reds. If I didn't do that I don't think he'd know or care.

Dunner44
05-05-2006, 12:36 AM
Sorry to post right after that last one, but I wanted my 500th post to be bashing the Cubs. What better way to mark a milestone? Cubs Suck!

dougdirt
05-05-2006, 12:49 AM
I hate Cubs fans. Thats all I have to say.

Red in Chicago
05-05-2006, 12:51 AM
hey cub fans are trend setters...they popularized the throwing back of a visiting player's home run ball...

toledodan
05-05-2006, 12:52 AM
been to wrigley(great park) 4 times but their fans are the worst by far!

Yachtzee
05-05-2006, 01:08 AM
I think every team has their "good" fans and their "bad" fans. I know quite a few Cubs fans who are passionate about their team and have considerable knowledge of their team's history beyond some ancient goat curse. The problem for the Cubs is that Wrigley is located in an area populated by young, trendy folk who want to do what all the cool kids are doing. So that means hanging out in Irish Pubs, overpaying for gym memberships they never use, renting an apartment in Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville beyond their means, and rooting for the Cubs. They're way more visible than the trendy hangers on of other teams because the ballpark just happens to be located in their neighborhood, giving them easy access.

I would bet that if Yankees Stadium was located in Lower Manhattan or certain trendier neighborhoods of Brooklyn, Yankees fans would be infinitely more annoying than they already are (present company excepted, vaticanplum).

I read up on quite a bit of Cubs history when I lived there and I have spoken with a number of long-time Cubs fans. They don't like the "newbies" much either, much like we don't like those Banana Phone callers who make Reds fans look like a bunch of uneducated knee-jerk reactionary dolts.

I won't begrudge those long suffering Cubs fans. They have been dealt "stomach punches" in '69, '84, '89, and '03. And for all the griping about Lindner and O'Brien, at least they were never so wrongheaded as to implement something as bad as the "College of Coaches." Fair thee well, true blue Cub fans.

Hap
05-05-2006, 08:59 AM
We don't like those Banana Phone callers who make Reds fans look like a bunch of uneducated knee-jerk reactionary dolts.

I'm sure you are referring to the people who wonder why we don't still have Jeff Branson playing third base.

BuckWoody
05-05-2006, 09:33 AM
...we don't like those Banana Phone callers who make Reds fans look like a bunch of uneducated knee-jerk reactionary dolts.
Hi Marty. Hey what's Santo Alcala up to these days?


hey cub fans are trend setters...they popularized the throwing back of a visiting player's home run ball...
It's getting a little old now, but I must admit, I thought this was pretty cool when they first started doing it. I got over it when I heard that the bleacher people would bring in old balls to throw back and keep the gamer. The only way I would ever see myself throwing back a home run ball is if I caught a Cubbie homer at Wrigley. ;)

edabbs44
05-05-2006, 09:44 AM
I love the Reds but the NY Yankees organization is the zenith of U.S. baseball. Their history is the most interesting, they are the most successful, and they represent the game the most accurately (whether you care to admit it or not, the Yankees are baseball - right now they are the greediest, most arrogant professional team in the USA and that is baseball and that is the USA at this point in time): they are most culturally relevant professional sports team in the USA right now and for most of the 20th century as well.

As an East Coast resident, there's nothing better than reminding NYY fans of that fact that they haven't won a WS since 2000. They act like they've won every year since the Taft administration.

I hate Yankee fans.

RedsFan75
05-05-2006, 10:20 AM
My father-in-law and mother-in-law, are natives of Illinois, my wife was born there and All her family is from there. Just west of Springfield so farther to the south of the state. The place is still crazy with Cubs banners and flags and other indications that cry out Cub country.

My In-Laws are almost all Cardinals fans and I made the comment to my FIL once along the lines of why aren't you a Cubs fan.... His reply was golden!

He said....

"Because I have an education"

:devil: :evil:

Chip R
05-05-2006, 10:54 AM
My In-Laws are almost all Cardinals fans and I made the comment to my FIL once along the lines of why aren't you a Cubs fan.... His reply was golden!

He said....

"Because I have an education"

:devil: :evil:

And a job.

Sabo Fan
05-05-2006, 11:34 AM
2. The "Lincoln Park Trixies" and their boyfriends, the "Chads". These are folks who went to any one of a number of major Midwestern colleges and promptly moved to Chicago after graduation. Miami University has significant representation among this group.

You're not kidding. As a soon-to-be Miami alumni, I've dealt with my fair share of moronic Cubs "fans." I put fans in quotes because I believe that they are only Cubs fans because they fear being shunned by their little social groups if they don't pretend they like the Cubs. There is a significant amount of Chicagoans in Oxford, and my randomly-selected roomate for a semester was one of these. That was a long couple of months.

I think that while there may be some good Cubs fans out there, for the most part people who know exactly zero about baseball are Cubs fans.

westofyou
05-05-2006, 11:38 AM
As a soon-to-be Miami alumni, I know several former Cincinnati/Miami/Chicago (Arthur Anderson Type Job) folks, it's a nice package of goods... I think P&G might deliver it to some executives in a basket at the birth of their child. They babble about the Cubs, never the Sox.

My wife went to Miami for her first 2 years, but she was one of the weirdos at Western.

Sabo Fan
05-05-2006, 11:44 AM
I know several former Cincinnati/Miami/Chicago (Arthur Anderson Type Job) folks, it's a nice package of goods... I think P&G might deliver it to some executives in a basket at the birth of their child. They babble about the Cubs, never the Sox.

My wife went to Miami for her first 2 years, but she was one of the weirdos at Western.

Yeah, Procter and God has quite an influence around here.

The Western program is likely nearing the end of its days. It was recommended by a panel that it be discontinued following the graduation of the current class and essentially would be turned into the honors campus. I'll admit, I didn't venture over there often (mostly because I didn't have any classes there), but it is a beautiful part of campus.

westofyou
05-05-2006, 11:48 AM
The Western program is likely nearing the end of its days.
In the 80's = FREAK SHOW.

Now I'm craving Bruno's

Chip R
05-05-2006, 11:54 AM
I was thinking this morning about why there is such a rivalry between the Cubs and Cardinals. I know they have been in the same division forever but except for a couple three years ago, I don't really recall them ever having any kind of pennant/division/wild card race against each other. It seems like the Mets and not the Cards have been their particular rival whenever the Cubs were fortunate enough to contend. I know StL and CHI are geographically close and share a lot of the same fan base in Illinois but Cincinnati is about as close as StL is to Cincinnati and you could say they also share some of the same fan base in Indiana but there doesn't seem to be the same rivalry that the Cubs and Cards have.

minus5
05-05-2006, 12:00 PM
They don't look evil

westofyou
05-05-2006, 12:00 PM
I know they have been in the same division forever but except for a couple three years ago, I don't really recall them ever having any kind of pennant/division/wild card race against each other.I think they cemented their relationship from 1926-1946. Both were in it most of the time and teh Cubs at the time were like the Yankees of the Midwest, rich and popular. The Cardinals were the A's of the day, fighting the small market blues by trying different avenues.


Cubs

1926 4th 82 72 .532 7
1927 4th 85 68 .556 8.5
1928 3rd 91 63 .591 4
1929 1st 98 54 .645 +10.5 NL CHAMPIONS
1930 2nd 90 64 .584 2
1931 3rd 84 70 .545 17
1932 1st 90 64 .584 +4 NL CHAMPIONS
1933 3rd 86 68 .558 6
1934 3rd 86 65 .570 8
1935 1st 100 54 .649 +4 NL CHAMPIONS
1936 T2nd 87 67 .565 5
1937 2nd 93 61 .604 3
1938 1st 89 63 .586 +2 NL CHAMPIONS
1939 4th 84 70 .545 13
1940 5th 75 79 .487 25.5
1941 6th 70 84 .455 30
1942 6th 68 86 .442 38
1943 5th 74 79 .484 30.5
1944 4th 75 79 .487 30
1945 1st 98 56 .636 +3 NL CHAMPIONS
1946 3rd 82 71 .536 14.5



Cardinals

1926 1st 89 65 .578 +2 WORLD CHAMPIONS
1927 2nd 92 61 .601 1.5
1928 1st 95 59 .617 +2 NL CHAMPIONS
1929 4th 78 74 .513 20
1930 1st 92 62 .597 +2 NL CHAMPIONS
1931 1st 101 53 .656 +13 WORLD CHAMPIONS
1932 T6th 72 82 .468 18
1933 5th 82 71 .536 9.5
1934 1st 95 58 .621 +2 WORLD CHAMPIONS
1935 2nd 96 58 .623 4
1936 T2nd 87 67 .565 5
1937 4th 81 73 .526 15
1938 6th 71 80 .470 17.5
1939 2nd 92 61 .601 4.5
1940 3rd 84 69 .549 16
1941 2nd 97 56 .634 2.5
1942 1st 106 48 .688 +2 WORLD CHAMPIONS
1943 1st 105 49 .682 +18 NL CHAMPIONS
1944 1st 105 49 .682 +14.5 WORLD CHAMPIONS
1945 2nd 95 59 .617 3
1946 1st 98 58 .628 +2 WORLD CHAMPIONS

vaticanplum
05-05-2006, 12:01 PM
I was thinking this morning about why there is such a rivalry between the Cubs and Cardinals. I know they have been in the same division forever but except for a couple three years ago, I don't really recall them ever having any kind of pennant/division/wild card race against each other. It seems like the Mets and not the Cards have been their particular rival whenever the Cubs were fortunate enough to contend. I know StL and CHI are geographically close and share a lot of the same fan base in Illinois but Cincinnati is about as close as StL is to Cincinnati and you could say they also share some of the same fan base in Indiana but there doesn't seem to be the same rivalry that the Cubs and Cards have.

I've wondered this myself. Through my Cubbies research, I've discovered that there was really not even a historical precedent for such a rivalry (not that I can remember right now). Historically it seems like Chicago's big rivals were Pittsburgh and Cincinnati, and of course all three of those teams are now back in the same division. There were some important Cubs/Cards series at times, but nothing really notable. So is the Cards thing strictly geographical?

I've asked Cubs fans this, of course, but have yet to get a solid response apart from "Cardinals suck!" (ok, I'm getting really irrational now.)

vaticanplum
05-05-2006, 12:03 PM
I think they cemented their relationship from 1926-1946. Both were in it most of the time and teh Cubs at the time were like the Yankees of the Midwest, rich and popular. The Cardinals were the A's of the day, fighting the small market blues by trying different avenues.

I still feel like Pittsburgh was the team running around being awesome at this time, with more direct crucial showdowns with the Cubs (Homer in the Gloaming, etc.) Was it just too far away for the rivalry to last?

Chip R
05-05-2006, 12:06 PM
I think they cemented their relationship from 1926-1946. Both were in it most of the time and teh Cubs at the time were like the Yankees of the Midwest, rich and popular. The Cardinals were the A's of the day, fighting the small market blues by trying different avenues.


That could be but you would think that from 1946 to 1984 that some of the sting would have been taken out of that rivalry. As the saying goes, a hammer and a nail is not a rivalry.

westofyou
05-05-2006, 12:11 PM
I still feel like Pittsburgh was the team running around being awesome at this time, with more direct crucial showdowns with the Cubs (Homer in the Gloaming, etc.) Was it just too far away for the rivalry to last?
The Pirates reign was more centered on the early 20th century, at that time the Cubs might have been the biggest and most popular team in America outside of the Giants. By the early teens the Cubs were still good and the Pirates were poor. The older 8 team league didn't foster the types of Us vs Them for all of eternity, everyone played everyone 18 times and the standings usually dictated who was your nemisis at the times.

However The Cubs and the Cardinals have a regional thing that was probably fostered by large networks of trains, automobiles and the radio. There is a lot of nothing in-between the two, they needed something to fill in the empty space.

Chip R
05-05-2006, 12:15 PM
However The Cubs and the Cardinals have a regional thing that was probably fostered by large networks of trains, automobiles and the radio. There is a lot of nothing in-between the two, they needed something to fill in the empty space.

You could say the same thing for the Cubs and Reds or Cards and Reds but neither team really considers the Reds as a big rival.

registerthis
05-05-2006, 12:20 PM
Your thread title is redundant. ;)

Department of Redundancy Department?

westofyou
05-05-2006, 12:20 PM
You could say the same thing for the Cubs and Reds or Cards and Reds but neither team really considers the Reds as a big rival.
Maybe because they sucked for so long?

The Dodgers rivalry was created out of the 1961 pennant race and died over 10 years ago. The press has to care enough to stoke the flames, the fanbases should intersect at some juncture, whether it be physically or psychologically.

In the mid 80's the Astros were a big rival of hte Reds, because they were good and the Reds were too.

griffeyfreak4
05-05-2006, 12:31 PM
I have had it with Cubs fans.

As a fellow resident of Chicago, I empathize with you. I absolutely HATE Cub fans. They think that because Wrigley is so "special" and their team has so much "tradition" that everyone wants to be a Cub. Everytime a big name goes on the free agent market, all I hear is, "He's coming to the Cubs because no one can turn down Wrigley Field."

Easily the worst kinds of fans. Last year, when the Sox won it all, all I said to them was, ":mooner: "

The Cubs get all the credit in this town, and it's really annoying. A Cubs loss gets more headlines than a Sox win, and when the Cubs win, I don't think there are any Sox headlines regardless of what they did.

Also, these fans like to think that Kerry Wood is one of the best pitchers in baseball. It makes me sick. He is mediocre! He has never won more than 14 games in a season, which is sad! One 20 K game does not make a pitcher good, even Dave Williams is going to have at least ONE good game by the end of the season.

And what else is sad is that even the Tribune said that, "They could turn all the seats backwards at Wrigley and still sell out." The only reason it's always packed is because of the beer!

LincolnparkRed
05-05-2006, 12:38 PM
The problem for the Cubs is that Wrigley is located in an area populated by young, trendy folk who want to do what all the cool kids are doing. So that means hanging out in Irish Pubs, overpaying for gym memberships they never use, renting an apartment in Lincoln Park or Wrigleyville beyond their means, and rooting for the Cubs. They're way more visible than the trendy hangers on of other teams because the ballpark just happens to be located in their neighborhood, giving them easy access.

I would bet that if Yankees Stadium was located in Lower Manhattan or certain trendier neighborhoods of Brooklyn, Yankees fans would be infinitely more annoying than they already are (present company excepted, vaticanplum).



Obviously you can tell by my username that I am one of these lincoln park "people".One thing that needs to be pointed out is that there is a large amont of rental property in the area that is cheap, as compared to the Gold Coast and Streeterville, but it is still close enough to downtown that all the consultants and others can commute downtown without too much hassle. We bought a place in Lincoln Park because it is safe for the most part, we have a view of North Ave. beach and still can see all of downtown. My wife still trys to tell me I should root for the cubs because I live in Chicago but since her family didn't follow any teams before they moved here from California I think she just followed the herd once she got to high school. I usually take a lot of crap from coworkers about not following the cubs but I can usually stop that with a comment about attending game 2 of the 1990 series and asking if they have been to a world series game knowing the answer of course.:evil:

Sabo Fan
05-05-2006, 12:49 PM
In the 80's = FREAK SHOW.

Now I'm craving Bruno's

Yeah, there are some odd ones over there, that's for sure. Since I've been here though the high honors students seem to be giving them a run for their money. Genius being a burden and all that I suppose.

Bruno's is definitely good stuff. I'll miss Skipper's criss-cut fries and Bagel and Deli as well. 99 cent Margarita night at 45 East is nice as well.

Yachtzee
05-05-2006, 02:07 PM
You're not kidding. As a soon-to-be Miami alumni, I've dealt with my fair share of moronic Cubs "fans." I put fans in quotes because I believe that they are only Cubs fans because they fear being shunned by their little social groups if they don't pretend they like the Cubs. There is a significant amount of Chicagoans in Oxford, and my randomly-selected roomate for a semester was one of these. That was a long couple of months.

I think that while there may be some good Cubs fans out there, for the most part people who know exactly zero about baseball are Cubs fans.

You will move to Chicago. You will hang out at The Bird's Nest. You will meet a nice "Cubs" fan/Miami alumna. You will then consummate a "Miami Merger" and purchase an overpriced condo in Wrigleyville. It is your destiny. :starwars:

MattyHo4Life
05-05-2006, 02:25 PM
I was thinking this morning about why there is such a rivalry between the Cubs and Cardinals. I know they have been in the same division forever but except for a couple three years ago, I don't really recall them ever having any kind of pennant/division/wild card race against each other. It seems like the Mets and not the Cards have been their particular rival whenever the Cubs were fortunate enough to contend. I know StL and CHI are geographically close and share a lot of the same fan base in Illinois but Cincinnati is about as close as StL is to Cincinnati and you could say they also share some of the same fan base in Indiana but there doesn't seem to be the same rivalry that the Cubs and Cards have.


I don't know a lot of the history, or how far back the rivalry goes.. all I know is that it is impossible to get a ticket to a Cubs game here no matter how good of team the Cubs are. The Cubs can be in last, and it is one of the biggest games of the year.

Anyways, I was wondering if Harey Carey's ties to St. Louis and the Cardinals have something to do with it. I'm sure the rivalry goes back further than that, but I would think this probably added a lot to the rivalry.

Red in Chicago
05-05-2006, 03:10 PM
cub fans hated harry when he was with the cards...then hated him even more when he was with the sox...a few buds and bad singing of take me out to the ballgame at wrigley and he became the mayor of rush street!!

even though i hate the cubs, harry was actually quite priceless...even before his cub days

RichRed
05-05-2006, 03:55 PM
In the words of George Will, himself a Cubs fan:

"Mamas don't let your babies grow up to be Cub fans."

Excellent advice.

mole44
05-05-2006, 06:31 PM
Two buddies and I

Its true, I was one of em!


Cubs fans: ESTES SUCKS!! HIT HIM ON THE HAND!!! THE LEFT ONE!!! [Once again, much more, but not clean]


My favorite line of the night. I now use a similar phrase whenever I'm at a Milton pitched game


Calm Cubs fan: Oh, he's a school teacher.

Ok, maybe that was the best line of the night

vaticanplum
05-11-2006, 05:48 PM
Just dropping by with news of the latest -- I just had somebody tell me that "being a Cubs fan has made me more emotionally vulnerable...I'm not as hardened as I used to be because now my heart is an exposed nerve." I'm not making this up.

Dude. Get a freaking puppy.