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View Full Version : What's your opinion on Phillips?



redsandrails
05-07-2006, 12:32 AM
What's everyone's opinion on Phillips. I like the guy, he plays hard but I think we gave him a starting job prematurely. Yes he had an awesome April but the guy has had almost no success in the majors prior to then. His .269 May OPS just warrants an :eek: . I could see him blossoming into an Easley type (back when he was actually good in like 1997-1999), but I could also see him being a light hitting bench player. When Griffey returns does he deserve the starting job at 2B or does Freel? I personally think Freel and Phillips are solid players but both play best if they only start about 2/3 of the time.... Freel getting about 1/3 of the time at 2B and another 1/3 of the time filling in for EE and Griffey.

What do others think about him though? His average is now below .300.... it was at almost .370 not too long ago. How bad do you think it will have to get until Donofia gets more time from Freel in CF and Freel takes over 2B?

reds44
05-07-2006, 12:33 AM
He wasn't brought here to hit.

Mario-Rijo
05-07-2006, 12:52 AM
What's everyone's opinion on Phillips. I like the guy, he plays hard but I think we gave him a starting job prematurely. Yes he had an awesome April but the guy has had almost no success in the majors prior to then. His .269 May OPS just warrants an . I could see him blossoming into an Easley type (back when he was actually good in like 1997-1999), but I could also see him being a light hitting bench player. When Griffey returns does he deserve the starting job at 2B or does Freel? I personally think Freel and Phillips are solid players but both play best if they only start about 2/3 of the time.... Freel getting about 1/3 of the time at 2B and another 1/3 of the time filling in for EE and Griffey.

What do others think about him though? His average is now below .300.... it was at almost .370 not too long ago. How bad do you think it will have to get until Donofia gets more time from Freel in CF and Freel takes over 2B?


He wasn't brought here to hit.

But hit he has, and he has continued to swing the bat well but has had a streak of bad luck hitting lasers right at people over the last week or so. Frankly I like him at the plate also. He has a quick bat, doesn't swing at a ton of bad pitches, makes good contact most all the time and hits with some degree of power to all fields. The only thing I don't like about his game is that he seems to have a bit of an upper-cut swing. But hey as long as he's hitting the ball well I am fine with him. Also his defense is top shelf as is his baserunning so far. He seems to have the good instincts as well, so I like him quite a bit.

He needs to be the starter at 2B until he pushes himself out of the order. Freel is going to have to get scraps again, especially since he can't seem to hit a ball on the ground lately.

GAC
05-07-2006, 06:52 AM
Young kid, great upside, who, at age 21, was rushed badly by the Indians.

He improves our defense up the middle, and that in itself is a HUGE plus.

And a .269 OPS over 5 days tells us nothing.

Players slump. And they also face good pitchers.

Topcat
05-07-2006, 07:29 AM
The Kid has a HUGE upside and most importantly he can pick it and thats what is needed most at 2b.

Spring~Fields
05-07-2006, 01:11 PM
Narron might have a solution in Phillips for the long haul if he would be a bit flexible. He could move the all-star powerful armed shortstop to third, move Phillips back to short which should improve the range and coverage on the left side, move the slick fielding EE with occasional throwing errors to first, taking care of the throwing errors and weak hitting first base, and put Olmedo at second and Narron might have solved his defensive woes that could help the picthing a great deal. Won't happen though as they would not move Dunn to first, they surely won't do something radical and exotic like the above.

pedro
05-07-2006, 02:01 PM
Narron might have a solution in Phillips for the long haul if he would be a bit flexible. He could move the all-star powerful armed shortstop to third, move Phillips back to short which should improve the range and coverage on the left side, move the slick fielding EE with occasional throwing errors to first, taking care of the throwing errors and weak hitting first base, and put Olmedo at second and Narron might have solved his defensive woes that could help the picthing a great deal. Won't happen though as they would not move Dunn to first, they surely won't do something radical and exotic like the above.

I think it would be a huge mistake to give up on EE at third base this early. It woudl be a waste of athleticism and potential IMO. Plus he's really not as tall as you'd like a first baseman to be.

As for putting Olmedo at 2B I couldn't disagree more. Not only can I not envision a scenario in which he will hit well enough to be an everyday player, I really don't think he's all that great in the field. Slim chance that it is, I still think Bergolla has a better chance of making it to the majors as an everyday player than Olmedo.

I do agree that in the long run Phillips should probably be moved to SS, but I think I'd wait until next season to do that, waiting first to see how Phillips plays over the entire season. If Phillips is moved to SS, then Lopez woudl slide to 2B.

dougdirt
05-07-2006, 02:11 PM
Phillips is just getting pretty unlucky right now.
In April his BABIP was .372. You dont expect it to stay that high all season.
In May his BABIP is .118. That is EXTREMELY low and you cant expect it to stay that low for the month either.
So while in April his BABIP seemed a tad high, it was not overly out of line with what could be maintained for a season. However in May, his BABIP is so low that there is pretty much no way someone will maintain it for an entire month, much less a year. With such a small sample size you can just attribute it to Phillips hitting the ball very unlucky and right at people over his last few games.

KronoRed
05-07-2006, 04:19 PM
Moving EE this early would be a mistake, we don't have anyone else who can play 3rd as well as he can, Lopez should be at 2nd.

Falls City Beer
05-07-2006, 04:21 PM
He wasn't brought here to hit.

Then he shouldn't be an every day player.

reds44
05-07-2006, 04:40 PM
Then he shouldn't be an every day player.
Not true.

See: Alex Gonzalez

He has made a career fielding (and being an everyday player) without being able to hit.

The_jbh
05-07-2006, 04:56 PM
Moving EE this early would be a mistake, we don't have anyone else who can play 3rd as well as he can, Lopez should be at 2nd.

Encarnacion has all the tools to be a great 3B. It is ENTIRELY too early to move him, especially to first base. He just needs time to adjust i think he has been improving as the season goes on. Bucky Dent is working on him setting his feet when he throws and if you watch, that is the reason he makes errors almost everytime. Every error i've seen him make is throwing, not picking it over there.


As for Phillips, the kid is slumping and he has gotten real unlucky, the hits just aren't falling. The most important aspect he brings to this team is his DEFENSE. When Griffey gets back you can't move Freel to 2nd fulltime. Freel will get 2 starts a week at 2B, 2 in the OF and 1 at 3rd most likely. Phillips saves run with his D. Just as good as hitting hot. In fact i think we'd be a lot better off with Phillips at SS and Lopez at 2b but thats a whole other thread. I think its funny people want to move encarnacion bc of D but then want Phillips out of the line up if hes not hitting

and remember Phillips is young and has loads of potential. He was projected a future all star.

reds44
05-07-2006, 05:08 PM
Narron might have a solution in Phillips for the long haul if he would be a bit flexible. He could move the all-star powerful armed shortstop to third, move Phillips back to short which should improve the range and coverage on the left side, move the slick fielding EE with occasional throwing errors to first, taking care of the throwing errors and weak hitting first base, and put Olmedo at second and Narron might have solved his defensive woes that could help the picthing a great deal. Won't happen though as they would not move Dunn to first, they surely won't do something radical and exotic like the above.
LOL I love this board.

You can't just move guys from position to position like it is nothing.

lollipopcurve
05-07-2006, 09:15 PM
Phillips is an everyday player with a high ceiling. Incredibly fortunate acquisition for the Reds.

GAC
05-07-2006, 09:27 PM
He wasn't brought here to hit.

What? If all they needed, or wanted, was "D" at 2B then they could have gotten that with Olmedo.

pedro
05-07-2006, 09:37 PM
What? If all they needed, or wanted, was "D" at 2B then they could have gotten that with Olmedo.


not really.

KronoRed
05-07-2006, 10:27 PM
Phillips can get hot now and then, Olmedo..not so buch..he's more a bench guy.

Phillips strikes me as being like Aaron Boone..cept with better D

bucksfan
05-07-2006, 10:38 PM
I had not seen much of Phillips (or I guess more accurately focused much on him) until the Reds acquired him. So far I have liked his approach at the plate and his play in the field quite a bit. As others have said, he is a bit on the unlucky side right now, but from what I have seen he is still taking real good swings for the most part. I see no reason not to keep him a starter, and he may well be a SS someday, but I sure wouldn't mess with Felipe this year.

WVPacman
05-08-2006, 12:35 AM
I like Phillips,I think he brings four things to our lineup!! Speed,defense,energy,and yes even hitting.When a player like him brings that many things to the table you can't help but play him.Theres even more good news about Phillips, HE WILL EVEN GET BETTER b/c he is only 21.He has had tough luck hitting the ball the last few days,but when even the last three games he has hit the ball very hard even thow he got out.That tells me there that it won't be long until he starts getting base hits again.The indians know they made a bid mistake for trading Phillips and they will expect for a good player that will make some noise fast from the reds.It will be interesting to see what happens when Griffey comes back!!

wheels
05-08-2006, 01:22 AM
He's a bigger, stronger version of Pokey Reese.

Hopefully he'll get more patient at the plate, but as it is, his defense and pop make him a valuable player.

Narron's avoided the temptation to bat him higher in the order and I applaud that. Smile when he's hot at the plate, and take the slumps lightly and be glad they've got someone with some actual defensive ablility playing up the middle.

Good times.

dougdirt
05-08-2006, 01:38 AM
I like Phillips,I think he brings four things to our lineup!! Speed,defense,energy,and yes even hitting.When a player like him brings that many things to the table you can't help but play him.Theres even more good news about Phillips, HE WILL EVEN GET BETTER b/c he is only 21.He has had tough luck hitting the ball the last few days,but when even the last three games he has hit the ball very hard even thow he got out.That tells me there that it won't be long until he starts getting base hits again.The indians know they made a bid mistake for trading Phillips and they will expect for a good player that will make some noise fast from the reds.It will be interesting to see what happens when Griffey comes back!!

Few things.
1. Phillips is 24, not 21.
2. The Indians were given a list of guys to choose from before Phillips started playing. They dont get to choose from anyone that was not on that list just because he is playing so well. So they will still likely get someone who isnt one of the Reds top prospects.

Jpup
05-08-2006, 03:56 AM
Freel>Phillips. If Freel is in the lineup, I don't mind Phillips, but he will not continue to hit as he did in April, nothing even close.

Topcat
05-08-2006, 04:12 AM
Then he shouldn't be an every day player.


Thank god you were not Ozzie Smiths Manager when he came up. He never would have become anything under your rules of scrutiny.

Jpup
05-08-2006, 04:17 AM
Thank god you were not Ozzie Smiths Manager when he came up. He never would have become anything under your rules of scrutiny.

like I said when someone was comparing Coffey to Mariano Rivera, Brandon Phillips should not be mention in the same company as Ozzie Smith.

Topcat
05-08-2006, 04:27 AM
like I said when someone was comparing Coffey to Mariano Rivera, Brandon Phillips should not be mention in the same company as Ozzie Smith.


Comment deleted by Moderator.

KronoRed
05-08-2006, 04:37 AM
Freel>Phillips. If Freel is in the lineup, I don't mind Phillips, but he will not continue to hit as he did in April, nothing even close.
We can have both...if management would think ahead

Roy Tucker
05-08-2006, 10:21 AM
I think the flip-flopping of FeLo and Phillips isn't such a bad idea. Watching yesterday's 9th inning brought home the point that FeLo just isn't all that great at SS. Limited range and iffy accuracy on throws. I guess I got spoiled by years of Larkin and Concepcion.

Spitball
05-08-2006, 01:09 PM
LOL I love this board.

You can't just move guys from position to position like it is nothing.

I love this board, also, but why can't players switch positions? Players have been switching positions since the game was invented. You sound like Alphonso Soriano. ;)

Teams have made themselves stronger for years by switching players' positions.

Garvey, Russell, and Lopes all learned new positions to make for the longest running infield.

Rose switched to the outfield from second to get Tommy Helms in there. Later, he moved to third to get George Foster in there.

Biggio switched from catcher to become a Gold Glove second baseman and then to center to get Kent in there, then back to second to get Taveras in there.

Berkman switched from first to the outfield because of Bagwell and then back again.

Chipper Jones has moved from short to third to left and back again.

Mickey Stanley helped the Tigers win a championship when he played shortstop for the first time in the 1968 World Series.

Mel Queen went from the outfield to be a 14 game winning pitcher for the Reds in 1967.

The list could go on and on and on...

Many in the Toronto organization felt Lopez had a chance to be a Gold Glover at third base. Phillips spent most of his minor league career as a shortstop. As a career corner infielder, Encarnacion should have less problems adjusting to first than Dunn would have had. I believe all four players could be shifted and the team would be stronger defensively.

GAC
05-08-2006, 09:19 PM
Phillips can get hot now and then, Olmedo..not so buch..he's more a bench guy.

We're not talking offense. I was referring to HIS contention that the reason BP was brought here was defensive and "not to hit".

If all they were concerned about at 2B was strong defense, while "living with" a weak hitter, then we could have filled that role with Olmedo.

I'm not advocating it. Just stating we could have filled it with Olmedo, the "next Visquel" (as he was aptly labelled). ;)

GAC
05-08-2006, 09:21 PM
I love this board, also, but why can't players switch positions? Players have been switching positions since the game was invented. You sound like Alphonso Soriano. ;)

Teams have made themselves stronger for years by switching players' positions.

Garvey, Russell, and Lopes all learned new positions to make for the longest running infield.

Rose switched to the outfield from second to get Tommy Helms in there. Later, he moved to third to get George Foster in there.

Biggio switched from catcher to become a Gold Glove second baseman and then to center to get Kent in there, then back to second to get Taveras in there.

Berkman switched from first to the outfield because of Bagwell and then back again.

Chipper Jones has moved from short to third to left and back again.

Mickey Stanley helped the Tigers win a championship when he played shortstop for the first time in the 1968 World Series.

Mel Queen went from the outfield to be a 14 game winning pitcher for the Reds in 1967.

The list could go on and on and on...

Sir Albert Pujols. ;)

remdog
05-09-2006, 08:07 AM
....Olmedo, the "next Visquel" (as he was aptly labelled). ;)

Sorry G-Man but anyone that labeled ReyRey the next Visquel was probably referring to the fact that they are both from Venezuela, not their fielding ability. :)

Rem

GAC
05-09-2006, 09:31 PM
Sorry G-Man but anyone that labeled ReyRey the next Visquel was probably referring to the fact that they are both from Venezuela, not their fielding ability. :)

Rem

Actually rem, about 2 years ago, I read an article/scouting report on Olmedo, while he was at Dayton, that talked of his slick fielding and crowned him with that comparison. But it also said the same thing many of us are saying today.... solid defense, but can he hit ML pitching?

remdog
05-09-2006, 10:48 PM
I remember reports about Olmedo being a slick fielder. Then I saw him while he was playing with the Stockton Ports and I was shocked. Pretty good going to his left but very limited in going to his right at the time. I'm sure that he may have made improvements since then but still, I don't see him coming even close to Omar.

Rem

westofyou
05-10-2006, 12:34 AM
I love this board, also, but why can't players switch positions? Players have been switching positions since the game was invented. You sound like Alphonso Soriano. ;)

Teams have made themselves stronger for years by switching players' positions.

Garvey, Russell, and Lopes all learned new positions to make for the longest running infield.

Rose switched to the outfield from second to get Tommy Helms in there. Later, he moved to third to get George Foster in there.

Biggio switched from catcher to become a Gold Glove second baseman and then to center to get Kent in there, then back to second to get Taveras in there.

Berkman switched from first to the outfield because of Bagwell and then back again.

Chipper Jones has moved from short to third to left and back again.

Mickey Stanley helped the Tigers win a championship when he played shortstop for the first time in the 1968 World Series.

Mel Queen went from the outfield to be a 14 game winning pitcher for the Reds in 1967.

The list could go on and on and on...

[ - - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C - - ]


With the basic premise being that positions at the right end of
the spectrum are more difficult than the positions at the left
end of the spectrum. Players can generally move from right
to left along the specturm successfully during their careers.

Only a couple of your examples are moves to the right, Stanley was an anomaly move to get Kalines bat in the game , as was the move of Lopes and Russell (but they also moved one step since both were CF's)

Pitchers from position players isn't much of anomoly, the other way however is.

Red Heeler
05-10-2006, 10:14 AM
[ - - 1B - LF - RF - 3B - CF - 2B - SS - C - - ]

Only a couple of your examples are moves to the right, Stanley was an anomaly move to get Kalines bat in the game , as was the move of Lopes and Russell (but they also moved one step since both were CF's)

Pitchers from position players isn't much of anomoly, the other way however is.

On the other hand, Phillips only moved off of SS to begin with because of Vizquel.

pedro
05-10-2006, 01:10 PM
On the other hand, Phillips only moved off of SS to begin with because of Vizquel.

Phillips played all of last year at SS in the minors.

Doc. Scott
05-10-2006, 01:24 PM
Phillips wasn't playing 2B because he sucked at SS. He was playing 2B in the Cleveland system because of Jhonny Peralta. And then moved back after Peralta stuck in the bigs in '05.

Why not swap Lopez and Phillips? Felipe would have a learning curve, but his lesser range is better suited for 2B. Phillips probably has more range at SS.

pedro
05-10-2006, 01:26 PM
Phillips wasn't playing 2B because he sucked at SS. He was playing 2B in the Cleveland system because of Jhonny Peralta. And then moved back after Peralta stuck in the bigs in '05.

Why not swap Lopez and Phillips? Felipe would have a learning curve, but his lesser range is better suited for 2B. Phillips probably has more range at SS.

I like that idea too I'm just not sure about doing it right now. Although I wouldn't be upset if the Reds did do it today.

Doc. Scott
05-10-2006, 01:38 PM
I like that idea too I'm just not sure about doing it right now. Although I wouldn't be upset if the Reds did do it today.

I think Felipe will eventually play himself to the left or right. It's just a matter of time, really. The question is whether it will be the Reds to do it or his new employers five years or so from now.

Red Heeler
05-10-2006, 02:34 PM
I think Felipe will eventually play himself to the left or right. It's just a matter of time, really. The question is whether it will be the Reds to do it or his new employers five years or so from now.

That ship sailed for the Reds last year. A big stick SS can command a bigger salary than a big stick 2B even if he is range challenged. Boras knows it.

KronoRed
05-10-2006, 03:50 PM
/\ Agreed.

Unless Lopez REALLY wants to move (I doubt it) it's not gonna happen.

GAC
05-10-2006, 09:08 PM
I remember reports about Olmedo being a slick fielder. Then I saw him while he was playing with the Stockton Ports and I was shocked. Pretty good going to his left but very limited in going to his right at the time. I'm sure that he may have made improvements since then but still, I don't see him coming even close to Omar.

Rem

Oh, I agree rem. The Omar "tag" was placed on him by the individual writing the article. But he was probably the guy that tagged Dunn as the next Kingman. :lol: