Union fighting (Bonds) Investigation

[NDRed]

http://cbs.sportsline.com/mlb/story/9421979

Players union concerned about rights during steroids investigation
May 6, 2006
CBS SportsLine.com wire reports




NEW YORK -- Former Senate Majority Leader George Mitchell has asked several former and current major leaguers for medical and telephone records, requests the players union says oversteps the scope of baseball's steroids investigation.

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Michael Weiner, the union's No. 3 official, sent an e-mail to agents Friday telling them to inform the union if any clients are contacted by Mitchell.

The union told the agents that the investigation by Mitchell, who was hired by commissioner Bud Selig, was a "substantial disruption" to the bargaining relationship between the players association and Major League Baseball.

"The scope of the investigative efforts to date are plainly inconsistent with the provisions of the basic agreement, related agreements and other statutory rights of all players," Weiner wrote.

Weiner's e-mail was first reported by Newsday and the New York Post.

The e-mail also said the union has yet to be provided with copies of the correspondence between Mitchell and the players he requested information from, or a list of the players who have been contacted.

"The association wishes to advise all current and former players contacted in connection with the investigation of their rights," Weiner wrote. "In order to facilitate this, we expect you to contact the association immediately upon learning of any communication by anyone purporting to be connected with this investigation with or regarding any current or former player."

[NDRed]

Might as well call it for what it is.

The MLB players union is just inviting federal (government) intervention. This is not where they want to go. They would be better off playing along with the charades of this investigation. I'm sure MLB would be happy with shredding Bonds and trying to put this mess behind them.

[Unassisted]

The MLB players union is just inviting federal (government) intervention. This is not where they want to go. They would be better off playing along with the charades of this investigation. I'm sure MLB would be happy with shredding Bonds and trying to put this mess behind them.I think we're on the same page here.

MLB lacks the fortitude to stand up to its players' union. If government intervention leads to better policing and more aggressive enforcement of steroid use, then it'll be a great thing for the (purist) fans.

[TeamBoone]

Cory Lidle is one player who has spoken out against Bonds.

I don't know if there are any others, but if a majority of players were to openly not support him, would that make a difference in the Players' Union stance?

[Chip R]

I guess people feel that if you are a major league baseball player, you automatically lose your constitutional rights.

[Joseph]

Chip I don't think mitchell is ordering them to submit information, he's asking for it. They should have the right to choose if they want to submit it or not.

[NDRed]

The Union is choosing not to cooperate with the investigation. I would imagine if Mitchell were to ask some of his congressional firends to see what pressure they could put on the union it will only get worse.

[Unassisted]

I guess people feel that if you are a major league baseball player, you automatically lose your constitutional rights.Mitchell's no longer a member of Congress, so he might as well be Magnum, PI or Jim Rockford. ;) I don't see how anyone's rights are in jeopardy.

OTOH, if it were Congress subpoenaing for medical records, I imagine the ACLU would be filing injunctions and holding news conferences before the end of that day's news cycle.

[MWM]

As far as the MLBPA this is about much more than protecting Bonds. It's about protecting all its players and not setting a bad precedent. They can't make this about Barry Bonds and by protecting the rights of Bonds, they're actually looking out for their entire membership. If you throw one guy under the bus, you may as well disband.

[IslandRed]

As far as the MLBPA this is about much more than protecting Bonds. It's about protecting all its players and not setting a bad precedent. They can't make this about Barry Bonds and by protecting the rights of Bonds, they're actually looking out for their entire membership. If you throw one guy under the bus, you may as well disband.

True. As much as we all want to see Bonds nailed -- including, probably, a sizable portion of the MLBPA itself -- the union has to play this by the book, because anything they agree to with respect to Bonds will be considered fair game for anyone and everyone else.

[Unassisted]

If you throw one guy under the bus, you may as well disband.Especially when you consider that any guys thrown under the bus at this stage could well be among the all-time biggest contributors of union dues to the MLBPA. (Assuming union dues are a percentage of salary.)

[savafan]

Cory Lidle is one player who has spoken out against Bonds.

I don't know if there are any others, but if a majority of players were to openly not support him, would that make a difference in the Players' Union stance?

God bless Cory Lidle. :beerme:

http://www.signonsandiego.com/sports/baseball/20060507-9999-1s7bbhorn.html

Chris Jenkins
UNION-TRIBUNE STAFF WRITER

May 7, 2006

In militaryspeak, it's the equivalent of breaking radio silence. Sticking to “the code,” the many players who believe Barry Bonds cheated his way toward Babe Ruth and Hank Aaron would say so only off the record. Far, far off the record.

And then there's Cory Lidle.

Lidle knew he wouldn't have to pitch against Bonds when a sort of perfect storm arrived at Citizens Bank Park in Philadelphia for the weekend. Already playing in one of the homer havens of the game, the Phillies were scheduled to line up three right-handed starters against Bonds, none of them Lidle.

“I don't want to see him break records,” Lidle told the Philadelphia Daily News before the Giants arrived in town. “If he breaks them it will be a shame, because I think when all is said and done, the truth will come out. It hasn't yet, but I think if he was in front of a jury and there had to be a verdict, I think the verdict . . . might be guilty.”

Guilty of using steroids to boost his record-breaking home run totals, that is. Bonds withheld comment on Lidle's quotes, but one of his teammates couldn't keep quiet.

“Wow!” Jose Vizcaino said. “For any current player to say stuff like that . . . he should probably have some proof before you say something like that. Because how can you know for sure if it is true or not?”

If it comes to that, Lidle might not be selected for the jury pool in Bonds' case.

“The reason I'm not scared to speak out is – and I don't think he's a dumb person – basically he had decisions to make,” Lidle said. “Whether he wanted to treat people good or treat people bad. Whether he wanted to pump drugs into his body or stay clean. I believe he chose the (former) . . .

“What he could have done without performance-enhancing drugs – which he hasn't been proven guilty of, which I'm not buying – you can maybe take what he had done in his prime before his head started growing at an enormous rate and just make those projections,” Lidle said. “ . . . Maybe it's 550 home runs. I don't know. It definitely wouldn't have been anywhere close to 700.”

[NDRed]

I can't believe Lidle was quoted on those comments.

You know it takes alot of guts to say what a very high percentage of your collagues think/know and wouldn't say in a million years.

[Ron Madden]

Wish I could give Cory a few rep points. ;)

[Jpup]

Cory Lidle is one player who has spoken out against Bonds.

I don't know if there are any others, but if a majority of players were to openly not support him, would that make a difference in the Players' Union stance?

Cory Lidle is not in the player's union.

[savafan]

Cory Lidle is not in the player's union.

You are correct, but then again, apparently Barry Bonds isn't either...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Major_League_Baseball_Players_Association

The Major League Baseball Players Association (or MLBPA) is the union of professional major-league baseball players. Any individual on the 25-man or 40-man roster of an American League or National League team is eligible for membership. Players who were signed as replacement players during the 1994-1995 strike are ineligible to join (the most notable player ineligible for this reason is Kevin Millar). The only current player who is not a member of the MLBPA through choice is Barry Bonds, who left the union for commercial reasons.

http://www.baseball-almanac.com/legendary/replacement_players.shtml

The 1994 strike set in motion a chain of events that Major League Baseball and its fans still feels to this day. One of them was the use of replacement players during Spring Training in 1995 (Excel spreadsheet with complete rosters can be download from this page). These players, like them or not, crossed the proverbial picket line and became forever known as the replacements.

Each of the players below, according to the Players Association, are not allowed union membership. They each are given representation during arbitration or other matters, they all receive pension benefits, but they are not part of the actual union — which essentially means they do not receive any licensing monies and they cannot vote on union matters.

Each Major League team was permitted to carry thirty-two replacement players on their rosters for Opening Day and twenty-five could be used in any game. No waivers were going to be used, no disabled lists, and salaries were set at $115,000 (plus a $5,000 signing bonus, a $5,000 bonus for making the Opening Day roster, and up to three players could have a contract as high as $275,000).

When the strike finally came to an end, Major League players had a three week Spring Training and replacement players were either sent to the Minor Leagues, terminated, or in some cases given a team travel bag to load their belongings in before leaving to their homes.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Major_League_Baseball_replacement_players

The following Major League Baseball players appeared as replacement players during spring training in 1995, crossing picket lines during the 1994 baseball strike. Some had not yet been placed on a 40-man roster, and as such were not eligible to join the MLBPA at the time of the strike, while others were former MLB players who had retired before the strike. The list does not include replacement players who never appeared in regular-season MLB games.

* Joel Adamson
* Benny Agbayani[1][2]
* Tony Barron
* Mike Busch[3]
* Joe Crawford
* Brian Daubach[4][5]
* Brendan Donnelly[6]
* Angel Echevarria[7]
* Charles Gipson[8]
* Scarborough Green
* Jason Hardtke
* Pep Harris
* Matt Herges[9]
* Chris Latham[10]
* Cory Lidle[11]
* Kerry Ligtenberg[12][13]
* Rich Loiselle[14]
* Lonnie Maclin^[15]
* Ron Mahay[16][17]
* Rob Mallicoat^[18]
* Tom Martin[19]
* Greg Mathews^[20]
* Walt McKeel[21]
* Frank Menechino[22]
* Lou Merloni[23]
* Kevin Millar[24][25]
* Damian Miller[26][27]
* Eddie Oropesa[28]
* Keith Osik[29][30]
* Bronswell Patrick
* Pat Perry^[31]
* Alex Ramirez
* Rick Reed^[32][33]
* Mandy Romero
* Jeff Schulz^[34]
* Joe Slusarski^
* Chuck Smith[35]
* Shane Spencer[36]
* Bob Stoddard^[37]
* Joe Strong[38][39]
* Pedro Swann[40]
* Jeff Tam[41]
* Brian Tollberg[42]
* Chris Truby[43]
* Jamie Walker[44]

Players denoted with a ^ had appeared in MLB before the strike.

[Jpup]

You are correct, but then again, apparently Barry Bonds isn't either...

Bonds is a member of the MLBPA. He just doesn't allow them to use his likeness or name for merchandising, he felt he would make more on his own. You can't blame him for that.

[919191]

I didn't know Lidle was a replacement player. On one hand I commend him for his statements concerning steroids. On the other hand, that kind of makes him a scab.

I loathe scabs (I am a union man), but I suppose it is a different worls, and that was a long time ago.

I wonder if the other players have let that go? Might be an interesting story.

[TeamBoone]

Why is he a "scab"? He wasn't reprenting the Players Union when he made those statements.

Actually, and I'm showing my ignorance here, I didn't realize that all players weren't in the union. If they're not, then what good is it as all players aren't being represented?

[savafan]

Bonds is a member of the MLBPA. He just doesn't allow them to use his likeness or name for merchandising, he felt he would make more on his own. You can't blame him for that.

I can't find a definitive answer on this. There are a lot of websites that say Barry's not a member of the MLBPA, and there are a handful that say he is. :confused:

[TeamBoone]

You can't blame him for that.

Actually, I do. Greed, pure greed... like he needs more money.

He doesn't want to be associated with MLB merchandising so he removed himself from it. He's just soooooo special.

[savafan]

Classy :rolleyes:

http://slam.canoe.ca/Slam/Baseball/MLB/2006/05/08/1569053-ap.html

PHILADELPHIA (AP) - Carlos Oliveras has a home run ball specially marked to assure authenticity.

It just doesn't have Barry Bonds's autograph as the slugger refused to sign the ball. The 25-year-old U.S. Air Force serviceman bought his lucky ticket because he wanted to see Bonds chase Babe Ruth on the career home run list. Oliveras had little idea he'd be the one being chased - by fans and media - after snagging career home run No. 713.

When the San Francisco Giants' slugger hit a mammoth shot in the sixth inning off Philadelphia right-hander Jon Lieber to put him one behind the Babe on Sunday night, the ball bounced around Section 202 and into Oliveras' hands.

"I never thought I was going to be lucky like that," Oliveras said.

This was the first game of the three-game series Oliveras and a friend attended. He bought the ticket two days ago because he's a Bonds fans and wanted to see a slice of history. Then he was part of it.

"Everybody was looking on the floor," Oliveras said. "The ball bounced to me.

"I grabbed the ball and I stuck it between my legs. Everyone was still looking around."

Oliveras, a native of Puerto Rico, said no one immediately tried to snag the ball because he had it hidden. When the media and Phillies security discovered he caught the ball, other Phillies fans - many who spent the series jeering the sullen slugger - started yelling for him to throw the ball back.

"It made me nervous," he said.

Oliveras, an Airman 1st Class who lives on McGuire Air Force Base in Fort Dix, N.J., paid $20 US for his seat in Section 202, Row 7, Seat 24.

He said he is a Bonds fan and would probably keep the ball. He hoped it would have Bonds' signature.

Bonds said no when he was asked at his news conference if he would sign the ball if a fan wanted an autograph. Moments later, when an official asked if there were any more questions, Oliveras piped up:

"Will you sign my ball?"

Bonds smirked and said nothing.

After his news conference, Bonds shook Oliveras' hand and took a picture with him.

"I'm happy because I got a picture and he shook my hand," he said.

There was one signature needed though. Oliveras had to sign a waiver for Bonds's reality show.

[westofyou]

What's "Classy"?

[savafan]

What's "Classy"?

He wouldn't sign the airman's ball, but made him sign a waiver for his reality show. That's "classy".

[TeamBoone]

That was sarcasm classy... because Bonds wouldn't sign the ball.

You'd think he'd do everything he could for a fan... a Bonds fan. There aren't as many of them as there used to be.

[westofyou]

He wouldn't sign the airman's ball, but made him sign a waiver for his reality show. That's "classy".
The waiver is so he can be on the TV, that's ESPN's responsibility, not Bonds.. now he could have said no I won't sign it and his face would be blurred... but ESPN is the one with the waiver, not Bonds.

That doesn't exuse Bonds for his smirk or non sign.. but if the guy didn't want to be on TV then he could have smirked too.

BTW, I've spent whole days dragging people aside and having them sign those forms... its' a rights issue with the broadcasters and FCC.

[Ron Madden]

We live in a Free Country where everyone is considerd innocent untill proven guilty.

I thank God, and each and every Man and Women who have sacrificed to give us that right.

That said, We also have the right to our opinions and the freedom of speech.

I cannot prove if Bonds did or did not cheat. One hundred years from now fans will debate this issue.

I'll just say that in my opinion Bonds is jerk and a cheater.

At one time I respected Barry for his talent and maybe I still do... but I no longer respect him or his actions.

[savafan]

We live in a Free Country where everyone is considerd innocent untill proven guilty.



Only in a court of law. The court of public opinion is entirely different. ;)

[Ron Madden]

Only in a court of law. The court of public opinion is entirely different. ;)

:laugh: I aint Perry Mason.

JMHO. ;)

[RedsBaron]

There is an article in my local newspaper this morning arguing that while Bonds may eclipse Babe Ruth's numbers he will never eclipse Ruth's legend. The article then mentioned how Japanese soldiers in World War II would yell out curses of Ruth's name, hoping that Marines would respond in anger and reveal their positions. If today enemy troops yelled out curses of Barry Bonds, American soldiers might reveal their positions by joining in with the cursing.;)

[919191]

Why is he a "scab"? He wasn't reprenting the Players Union when he made those statements.

Actually, and I'm showing my ignorance here, I didn't realize that all players weren't in the union. If they're not, then what good is it as all players aren't being represented?


TB, a scab is someone who walks across a picket to replace those workers on that picket. To a union man, the word scab is an insult. Those replacement players were scabs, although I suppose it is time to let it go..:) It doesn't have anything to do with his recent statement.

[registerthis]

I wish Barry would just hit No. 715 and promptly retire. I'm just sick of him and his act at this point.

[Jr's Boy]

I love how he said the other night during the press conference when he was asked about 715 what would he do with the ball and he said he hopes to improve someones lifestyle,i.e.whoever catches that ball will be getting big money.I thought that was a cool statement.I'm sure all you Bonds haters would throw that ball back on the field right?Since you loathe him so much.

[savafan]

http://www.deadspin.com/images/2006/05/bondssignbig.jpg
:thumbup:

[TeamBoone]

TB, a scab is someone who walks across a picket to replace those workers on that picket. To a union man, the word scab is an insult. Those replacement players were scabs, although I suppose it is time to let it go..:) It doesn't have anything to do with his recent statement.

I know what a scab is. IMHO, it no longer applies as too many years have passed.

But realistically, if you were a young struggling baseball player trying to break into the profession, can you truthfully say you wouldn't have done the same thing if given the opportunity? For some of those guys, it's the only way they got a chance... and some of them were good enough to stick.

I don't want to start anything political because that would be breaking the rules... and union talk is potentially volatile, especially considering some of my personal opinions on the subject.

[savafan]

http://justoffcamera.blogspot.com/2006/05/is-there-really-debate-over-why-barry.html

Is There Really A Debate Over Why Barry Bonds Is Hated?

I was thinking tonight (in between sporadic bursts of studying) about why, exactly, Barry Bonds is so hated by everyone outside of San Francisco.

The obvious answer is that Bonds has been found guilty in the court of public opinion of using steroids, and while that may be true, that's clearly not enough to draw the kind of ire that Bonds draws. Jason Giambi has been painted as a juicer, and he apparently admitted to using steroids in his BALCO grand jury testimony, but fans don't venomously hate Giambi. Rafael Palmeiro looked like an idiot after he got caught using, and he was booed, but he wasn't hated like Bonds. Mark McGwire was a beloved figure during his 70-HR season, despite the fact that he was using androstenedione (legal at the time). So I don't think steroids are the reason people hate Bonds, although that certainly provides additional fuel for the fire.

I also don't think, as Bonds and some others have suggested, that racism is a major factor. I think it would be naive to think that there is no racism at all in baseball, but at the same time, if people were so anti-Bonds because he's black, then why don't other black players receive similar treatment? Derrek Lee, Dontrelle Willis, Ken Griffey Jr., Juan Pierre, Jimmy Rollins, Chone Figgins, Carl Crawford, Randy Winn, Coco Crisp, Vernon Wells, Prince Fielder - the list goes on and on - and if you ever hear anything negative about these guys (and for some, you won't), nobody ever links it to racism. Griffey gets hurt every year, but nobody chalks that up to his being black. Rollins doesn't walk enough for a leadoff hitter, but whenever someone pulls out that criticism of him, it isn't because he's black. So why, when someone gets negative on Bonds, does it suddenly become about race? I'm very skeptical of this.

This column from USA Today, which ran a month ago, posited that steroids and racism were the reason for Bonds's bad image. It's wrong. The reason people hate Bonds, quite simply, is because he is, to put it kindly, a thoroughly contemptible, detestable person. Allow me to illustrate:

Bonds said no when he was asked at his news conference if he would sign the ball if a fan [who caught his 713th home run] wanted an autograph. Moments later, when an official asked if there were any more questions, Oliveras [the fan who caught the home run] piped up:

"Will you sign my ball?"

Bonds smirked and said nothing.

After his news conference, Bonds shook Oliveras' hand and took a picture with him.

"I'm happy because I got a picture and he shook my hand," he said.

There was one signature needed though. Oliveras had to sign a waiver for Bonds' reality show.

Isn't this outrageous? The guy who catches the ball can't get an autograph from Bonds, but has to take the time to sign a waiver so he can appear on Bonds's reality show? That's just nauseating. To really put it in perspective, consider the fact that Carlos Olivares, the fan who caught the ball, is enlisted in the Air Force.

Now compare that to this story from 1998. The fan who caught McGwire's 60th home run of the season returned the ball to McGwire, and in return, asked for season tickets for the following season and the chance to take batting practice with the Cardinals. Seems a little excessive, especially after hearing that Bonds won't even sign one autograph. Guess what? McGwire and the Cardinals gave him exactly what he wanted. McGwire's quote: "If that's all he wants, we can work it out." Meanwhile, Bonds can't even be troubled to sign a ball.

Bonds and McGwire may be of different races, but that's not the reason McGwire was a hero and Bonds is a villain. They put themselves in those roles simply by playing the part.

[Jr's Boy]

[QUOTE=savafan]http://justoffcamera.blogspot.com/2006/05/is-there-really-debate-over-why-barry.html

Is There Really A Debate Over Why Barry Bonds Is Hated?

I also don't think, as Bonds and some others have suggested, that racism is a major factor. I think it would be naive to think that there is no racism at all in baseball, but at the same time, if people were so anti-Bonds because he's black, then why don't other black players receive similar treatment? Derrek Lee, Dontrelle Willis, Ken Griffey Jr., Juan Pierre, Jimmy Rollins, Chone Figgins, Carl Crawford, Randy Winn, Coco Crisp, Vernon Wells, Prince Fielder - the list goes on and on - and if you ever hear anything negative about these guys (and for some, you won't), nobody ever links it to racism. Griffey gets hurt every year, but nobody chalks that up to his being black. Rollins doesn't walk enough for a leadoff hitter, but whenever someone pulls out that criticism of him, it isn't because he's black. So why, when someone gets negative on Bonds, does it suddenly become about race? I'm very skeptical of this.

Because none of them are about to break one of the most hallowed records in baseball thats why.

[savafan]

Because none of them are about to break one of the most hallowed records in baseball thats why.

You think it would be different if they were?

I guarantee you if it were Griffey about to pass Ruth instead of Bonds, people would be loving Junior.

[savafan]

We'll have all of next year to look forward to this drama now too.

http://www.newsday.com/sports/baseball/ny-spbonds094735447may09,0,4747431.story?coll=ny-sports-headlines

Agent: Barry will return in ’07

BY JON HEYMAN
Newsday Staff Writer

May 9, 2006

Expect Barry Bonds back next year to battle all his aches and pains, to weather the steroid storm and, of course, to chase Hank Aaron's all-time home run record.

Bonds has sent mixed signals publicly about whether he plans to return for another season, but in perhaps the clearest sign that he will, Bonds' agent, Jeff Borris, told Newsday yesterday, "I have every reason to believe Barry Bonds will be a professional baseball player in 2007."

Bonds did not play last night as the host Giants beat the Astros, 7-5. Bonds, who has 713 home runs - one behind Babe Ruth for second place on the all-time list and 42 behind Aaron - recently has gotten hot. He has five home runs and is batting .262 with a .569 slugging percentage after hitting his 713th home run Sunday off Philadelphia's Jon Lieber.

Bonds told USA Today in spring training that 2006 would be his last season, and others close to him say he has waffled at times about whether he will return, depending on how his problematic knees feel. But according to Borris, all current evidence suggests he'll be back to chase history.

"I have reason to believe he will," Borris said. "Barry told me the other day his knee and elbow are feeling a little bit better every day ... He still loves playing baseball. As long as there isn't a decline in his health, he'll be in a big-league uniform."

Surprisingly, which uniform he'll wear still could be in question. The Giants publicly have supported Bonds throughout this difficult time and would be considered a favorite to retain his services if he returns, but it's uncertain how their contract talks have gone with Bonds.

In any case, Borris didn't discount a DH role for Bonds to save his knees.

"I wouldn't rule out DH as a possibility," Borris said. "In fact, if he were a DH, I think 1,000 home runs would be within his grasp. Barry approaches rehab as diligently as anybody. If his knee holds up, I wouldn't put 1,000 home runs past him."

If things don't work out in San Francisco or his knees worsen, Anaheim would be a logical landing spot for Bonds, who will make $18 million this season. Athletics general manager Billy Beane also showed interest in Bonds when he was a free agent five years ago.

Bonds remains beloved in San Francisco in the face of mounting evidence and a commissioner's investigation into suspected steroid use. It would be difficult to envision Bonds breaking Aaron's record in another uniform. But although his agent sounded certain that Bonds will return, he was almost as uncertain about where he would play.

Said Borris, "As of this moment, regarding where he signs his contract, I do not know."

[TeamBoone]

How can he possibly make that decision this early, especially when he's been plagued by the "injury" bug recently?