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Tools of Ignorance
05-07-2006, 08:12 PM
I wrote a letter to the Dispatch about how the editor wrote some disparaging remarks about Columbus Red's fans. He printed the letter below, with his response. However, he edited my letter and printed it without my permission. He deleted some sentences. This included my opinion that Columbus is more of a Red's town than an Indians town. Multiple polls by television stations in the city show that when the Indians are playing great, then the preference is about 50:50. However, when the results are about equal, the Reds are the favorite. In addition, he deleted my sentences that stated that UC basketball is downplayed disproportionately. I stated facts that UC basketball is listed under the "Ohio other" results. This means that UC games are listed after scores such as "Kenyon vs Ohio Northern" in the corner of the back page. This despite the fact that UC has been the best basketball program in the state over the last 15 years. XU has probably been the second best, with OSU third. Lastly, he deleted my references as to the immigrant nature of Columbus. Hardly anyone I know here is actually from Columbus, although almost all are from Ohio or West Virginia. This explains why I think there is a huge interest in other state schools.

The article is below.

http://www.dispatch.com/sports-story.php?story=dispatch/2006/05/07/20060507-E3-00.html

Mr. Stein: You had two passages about Reds fans in the Mailbox (last Sunday). In one, you said there are one or two Reds fans in Columbus. In the other, you implied that you get criticism about favoring the Indians over the Reds.

What initiated these comments? Do Reds fans complain about Tribe preference? Is it your opinion that Columbus is an Indians town? In my opinion, The Dispatch does a pretty good job with both teams initially. However, as the season progresses, you tend to bail if a team is playing poorly with little chance of making the postseason.

I always read The Dispatch with a feeling of "what if?" You often comment about not being able to cover everything due to funds, etc. I think that if you covered at least the Ohio teams well, it could be outstanding. This includes college football and basketball with Cincinnati, Miami, Bowling Green, Kent State, Toledo and OU.

I donít mean to complain. You guys do a good job. The step to excellence is small. You are a short step to superiority.

ó Mark Hogan, Worthington

Mark: Quickly, and in order: Yes, Reds and Indians fans complain regularly that we favor the other. Yes, we bail on losers, at least in terms of story placement. No, we can never cover UC the way The Enquirer does or Toledo the way The Blade does. Lastly, I appreciate your views on where we stand on quality, but remember that one manís recipe for excellence is anotherís recipe for disaster.

reds1869
05-07-2006, 08:51 PM
Thank God I don't live in that town any more. If it's not tOSU, they don't care. There is also a sense that "Ohio" translates to Columbus; the rest of us are really not as important as they are. I've lived in all three of Ohio's major cities, and Columbus was easily my least favorite.

Unassisted
05-07-2006, 09:01 PM
I read the Dispatch site more than any other Ohio newspaper web site, but it's definitely not on my list of sites to visit for Reds news. You were far too kind in your assessment of the paper's efforts on the Reds. The Clippers get more inches in the Dispatch sports section and Bob Hunter's columns rarely have any unique or provocative insight on the Reds.

If this was Jeopardy, that editor's response would be the answer to the question "When is an answer not an answer?" ;)

smith288
05-07-2006, 09:10 PM
Columbus aint a bad town. But some of the OSU fans sometimes think the college football world revolves around Columbus... I love my bucks but some of these fans are insufferable. I do wonder why Cincy is so anti-OSU at times though.

reds1869
05-07-2006, 10:39 PM
Columbus aint a bad town. But some of the OSU fans sometimes think the college football world revolves around Columbus... I love my bucks but some of these fans are insufferable. I do wonder why Cincy is so anti-OSU at times though.


I always hear that Cincy is anti-OSU, but I haven't ever had that impression. With the exception of some rabid Bearcat fans, there is pretty much general indifference when it comes to the Buckeyes down here. I think some OSU people confuse lack of interest with dislike.

RedsMan3203
05-07-2006, 10:43 PM
Cincinnati just aint as crazy as some of us Columbus Folk over those football Buckeyes...

I mean really - Who drives down at campus at 6 AM and tail gates and parties till the wee hours in the AM for a college football game?

ME!

KittyDuran
05-07-2006, 10:43 PM
Jim Massie is the Dispatch Reds beat writer (and from Hamilton, IIRC). The unfortunate thing is that the newspaper's reporting of the Reds is very inconsistent now and is not worth the price of subscription. I can get the articles because my company gets the Sunday paper edition.

StillFunkyB
05-07-2006, 10:46 PM
Thank God I don't live in that town any more. If it's not tOSU, they don't care. There is also a sense that "Ohio" translates to Columbus; the rest of us are really not as important as they are. I've lived in all three of Ohio's major cities, and Columbus was easily my least favorite.

I have as well, but Columbus was my favorite.

RBA
05-07-2006, 10:50 PM
Maybe if the Reds advertised in the paper they might get more coverage. That's the way the world works.

smith288
05-07-2006, 11:01 PM
Whats the Columbus (OH) Day thing the Reds are doing?

TeamBoone
05-07-2006, 11:17 PM
Whats the Columbus (OH) Day thing the Reds are doing?

1/2 price tickets for residents of Columbus (and vicinity). I think it's next weekend.

And FWIW, I've never felt that Cincinnati was anti-OSU. They sell their stuff everywhere... I see more OSU stuff in the stores than Reds stuff. And if it didn't sell, I doubt they'd carry it year after year.

wheels
05-07-2006, 11:18 PM
I remember when things were better.

I miss Mike Sullivan. Not just as a writer/editor (he was dyed in the wool Cleveland, but I couldn't tell), but he was a very good customer who became a friend.

The sports page hasn't been the same since he died.

wheels
05-07-2006, 11:19 PM
1/2 price tickets for residents of Columbus (and vicinity). I think it's next weekend.

And FWIW, I've never felt that Cincinnati was anti-OSU. They sell their stuff everywhere... I see more OSU stuff in the stores than Reds stuff. And if it didn't sell, I doubt they'd carry it year after year.

Smart move.

The Reds need a bigger foothold here.

DoogMinAmo
05-07-2006, 11:29 PM
Smart move.

The Reds need a bigger foothold here.

Encouraging for two reasons indeed: Signs of a marketing staff worth a damn, and signs of a desire to rebuild reds nation. I am curious to see what else will happen. Rumors on the media front have cooled since the pre-sale. I feel getting some Reds games(even a handful) on non-cable TV would go a long way.

Caseyfan21
05-07-2006, 11:46 PM
I read that letter this morning and remember thinking I'm glad I'm not the only one thinking this. This is my second year going to tOSU and thus my second year reading the Dispatch on a daily basis. Last year wasn't a big deal since the Indians were doing well and the Reds were doing terrible. This year, however, the Dispatch Reds coverage is ridiculous. No, they do not bail on losers if the losers are from Cleveland. The epitomy of their coverage thus far this year was the Reds/Cards game that Arroyo won. I was pumped the next morning when I got my copy of the Dispatch thinking this is finally the day the Indians get stuck on the 4th page while the Reds get a cover story.

The front page had a picture of Arroyo on the top bar with a message that celebrated the win that also said to turn to the first page of the Sports for the story. I turn to the page and there's the Indian's recap about their loss to the White Sox. Sure enough, the Reds are 5 pages back with their big win.

I'm not saying the Dispatch should be a Reds paper, all I ask for is equal coverage. When the Indians consistently have a game recap and a notes article, while the Reds only get a game recap 5 pages back that is not equal coverage. I think their policy should be that if one team wins and the other loses then the winning team gets the front page. If both teams win just do short intro's and split the space. I am just tired of always having the Indians on the front page win or lose while the Reds are actually doing well and getting very little coverage. No wonder there are more Tribe fans in Columbus!

wheels
05-08-2006, 12:08 AM
Encouraging for two reasons indeed: Signs of a marketing staff worth a damn, and signs of a desire to rebuild reds nation. I am curious to see what else will happen. Rumors on the media front have cooled since the pre-sale. I feel getting some Reds games(even a handful) on non-cable TV would go a long way.

Couldn't agree more.

StRedlegs900
05-08-2006, 12:55 AM
As a student at OSU, living in Columbus, I get very annoyed with how everyone here thinks Columbus is Cleveland II. I have lived in Cincy all my life, until I moved up here to go to OSU, and after 4 long years, I just wanna get out.

I used to be a huge Buckeye fan, and even went to Fiesta Bowl for their championship game my freshman year, but since then I have lost interest. The OSU fans seem to all think they're better than everyone else, and it sadly gets annoying. The same thing goes for how much everyone loves the Browns and Indians up here. I never read the Dispatch, because I just know there will hardly be any Cincinnati coverage, so I do most of my reading online.

I can understand why a lot of people in Columbus would be Browns fans, because they beat the Bengals in the history department. However, the Reds go back further than every other franchise, so Columbus should be a Reds town, but alas, it's not. One day I'll get out of here, and be free! :beerme:

smith288
05-08-2006, 09:18 AM
I was reading the paper yesterday and they had a steroid story that had nothing to do with the reds but inset with that story was the reds and diamondbacks logo with game time and probables.

WTH did that story have to do with the Reds game???

TeamBoone
05-08-2006, 11:30 AM
I was reading the paper yesterday and they had a steroid story that had nothing to do with the reds but inset with that story was the reds and diamondbacks logo with game time and probables.

WTH did that story have to do with the Reds game???

Sounds like they're trying to send some subliminal message... and not a good one regarding the Reds. That's actually kind of nasty (and without foundation), but it's hard to believe it wasn't done on purpose.

Maybe Cleveland pays them money! (just kidding)

smith288
05-08-2006, 11:54 AM
Sounds like they're trying to send some subliminal message... and not a good one regarding the Reds. That's actually kind of nasty (and without foundation), but it's hard to believe it wasn't done on purpose.

Maybe Cleveland pays them money! (just kidding)
Looks like since the game was late, they had a filler story in there because their online edition from yesterday shows the game's wrap up. Still sorta crappy they did that.

scounts22
05-08-2006, 11:58 AM
Sounds like they're trying to send some subliminal message... and not a good one regarding the Reds. That's actually kind of nasty (and without foundation), but it's hard to believe it wasn't done on purpose.

Maybe Cleveland pays them money! (just kidding)


I live about 40 minutes north of Columubs, still in central Ohio, and the same thing is true not just with the Dispatch, but also with local sports on TV and the papers up here. The Indians always seem to get mentioned first and seem to be covered more in-depth. There probably are a few more Indians fans up this way, but we're still 2 hours south of Cleveland, about about 2 1/2 hours north of Cincy. It just always seems like sportscasters feel that it's a waste of time to cover them for some reason, maybe partly because of location, but it also seems they don't really take the Reds seriously. (Does that make sense?)

Chip R
05-08-2006, 01:41 PM
I live about 40 minutes north of Columubs, still in central Ohio, and the same thing is true not just with the Dispatch, but also with local sports on TV and the papers up here. The Indians always seem to get mentioned first and seem to be covered more in-depth. There probably are a few more Indians fans up this way, but we're still 2 hours south of Cleveland, about about 2 1/2 hours north of Cincy. It just always seems like sportscasters feel that it's a waste of time to cover them for some reason, maybe partly because of location, but it also seems they don't really take the Reds seriously. (Does that make sense?)

I think it makes perfect sense. I think Reds fans in the central Ohio area are going to have to live with the fact that the Columbus media favors the Indians over the Reds until the Reds prove that they are for real. What have the Reds done in the past few years to make those fencesitting fans care for them? Granted, the Indians have had some lean years recently but they had a great year last season and have been to the playoffs a few more times than the Reds have over the past decade. If the Indians start stinking up the joint and the Reds start winning and going to the post season, I would bet that Reds coverage in central Ohio is going to increase and Indians coverage will decrease.

redsmetz
05-08-2006, 02:06 PM
Encouraging for two reasons indeed: Signs of a marketing staff worth a damn, and signs of a desire to rebuild reds nation. I am curious to see what else will happen. Rumors on the media front have cooled since the pre-sale. I feel getting some Reds games(even a handful) on non-cable TV would go a long way.

Yes and yes! I've said this before, what of Marge's worst moves was letting go of the Reds loyal following throughout a very large region. And I don't have cable and would love to see an occasional Reds game.

Reds/Flyers Fan
05-09-2006, 12:49 AM
I always read The Dispatch with a feeling of "what if?" You often comment about not being able to cover everything due to funds, etc. I think that if you covered at least the Ohio teams well, it could be outstanding. This includes college football and basketball with Cincinnati, Miami, Bowling Green, Kent State, Toledo and OU.

Bowling Green, Toledo, OU and Kent over Dayton? I don't think so.

And there are plenty of OSU fans in Cincinnati, it's just the coverage from the Enquirer and Post and, to a lesser extent, WLW, that sucks. When the Buckeyes played for the National Championship several years ago, I lived in Cincinnati and there were red Block "O" flags everywhere throughout Hyde Park, Mt. Lookout, Oakley, Pleasant Ridge, Mt. Adams and elsewhere in the Tri-state.

As for the Reds vs. Indians in C-bus, that can easily be fixed with Reds wins. The Reds have been a dull, losing club for most of the last 15 years while the Tribe has been winning - not to mention two World Series appearances. What do you expect?

TeamBoone
05-09-2006, 01:11 AM
As for the Reds vs. Indians in C-bus, that can easily be fixed with Reds wins. The Reds have been a dull, losing club for most of the last 15 years while the Tribe has been winning - not to mention two World Series appearances. What do you expect?

I've been a Reds fan through all that. If you are a Reds fan, do you switch your allegience to the Indians because the Reds are losing?

Tools of Ignorance
05-09-2006, 07:37 AM
I think it makes perfect sense. I think Reds fans in the central Ohio area are going to have to live with the fact that the Columbus media favors the Indians over the Reds until the Reds prove that they are for real. What have the Reds done in the past few years to make those fencesitting fans care for them? Granted, the Indians have had some lean years recently but they had a great year last season and have been to the playoffs a few more times than the Reds have over the past decade. If the Indians start stinking up the joint and the Reds start winning and going to the post season, I would bet that Reds coverage in central Ohio is going to increase and Indians coverage will decrease.


This is one of the original reasons I wrote the letter. A great paper would cover each team for that team's fans. They wouldn't blow with the wind, and drop coverage as soon as the record goes below .500.

I came to Columbus in 1995. I was really ticked off at how poor the paper covered the Reds. However, when the Reds made their great run and then signed Jr, the Indians coverage dried up. I thought that was sort of pathetic as well, and showed the true colors of the Dispatch.

Big Klu
05-09-2006, 03:31 PM
I live about 40 minutes north of Columubs, still in central Ohio, and the same thing is true not just with the Dispatch, but also with local sports on TV and the papers up here. The Indians always seem to get mentioned first and seem to be covered more in-depth. There probably are a few more Indians fans up this way, but we're still 2 hours south of Cleveland, about about 2 1/2 hours north of Cincy. It just always seems like sportscasters feel that it's a waste of time to cover them for some reason, maybe partly because of location, but it also seems they don't really take the Reds seriously. (Does that make sense?)

I think that whether a city is a Reds town or Indians town also depends on whether a local radio affiliate is available. I grew up in Zanesville (approximately 55 miles east of Columbus on I-70), which is now on the eastern frontier of Reds Country. The local radio station, WHIZ-AM 1240 is a member of the Reds radio network, and carries all the games. Hence, Zanesville and Muskingum County is heavily Reds territory. Because of my job, I moved to Cambridge (about 25 miles east of Zanesville, at the intersection of I-70 and I-77). Cambridge is just outside WHIZ's nighttime listening area (it's only a 1000-watt station), though you can pick it up in the daytime. Because of the terrain, 700 WLW is often difficult to pick up. So there is no local affiliate for Reds fans. (I have been told that there used to be one, but the program director of the station was a Pirates fan, so he switched to the Pirates network. The station then ceased baseball coverage due to lack of interest in Bucs games, which the station manager perceived as lack of interest in baseball.) As a result, the Indians are much bigger in Cambridge and Guernsey County, even though it borders Muskingum County. There are quite a few Reds fans in Cambridge (most of whom either grew up in the BRM days or are children of BRMers), but it is definitely an underground movement, and we are outnumbered.

smith288
05-09-2006, 04:09 PM
This is one of the original reasons I wrote the letter. A great paper would cover each team for that team's fans. They wouldn't blow with the wind, and drop coverage as soon as the record goes below .500.

I came to Columbus in 1995. I was really ticked off at how poor the paper covered the Reds. However, when the Reds made their great run and then signed Jr, the Indians coverage dried up. I thought that was sort of pathetic as well, and showed the true colors of the Dispatch.
I disagree...the main reason for a papers team allegiences and alignment is to SELL papers. Not appease a smaller block of fans. I dont know the actual numbers of Reds/Indians ratio here but im sure the Dispatch does as its their business to know the numbers for sales purposes. If they think Indian stories sells more papers...thats their business. There is no state statute that says to be fair to all Ohio teams.

Caseyfan21
05-09-2006, 04:28 PM
I think another reason for increased Tribe coverage has been the marketing of the teams. I attended both the Indians and Reds caravan stops in Columbus and I'm sorry but the Indians was much better. The Indians brought better players than the Reds to all of their caravan stops and it was held in a much larger location with a more structured Q and A session. Put it this way, I was at the back for the Indians Q&A and heard everything going on. I was at the back for the Reds and heard absolutely nothing because the sound system was pitiful and the bar it was at was several rooms. Hopefully the Reds can get better locations than sportsbars and restaurants for future years.

The Indians did it in one of the ballrooms of the Hall of Fame Cafe near OSU's campus and it was a very large room fit to handle a very large crowd. The Reds did it at a little pub in Dublin where the line was all over the restaurant and outside the door. Tell me which experience was better for the casual fans that showed up and stood in the cold?

I really hope this Columbus promotion is the beginning of the Reds paying more attention to Reds country outside of greater Cincinnati. If the Reds had a better marketing strategy they could own central Ohio, Indiana, Kentucky and West Virginia and become more of a regional team. If they can attain that then it would be a worthy investment to get their own TV station like the Indians in a couple years which would further the revenue stream.

MartyFan
05-09-2006, 05:15 PM
First, the Dispatch is flat out horrible for Reds info...has been since right after the BRM.

Second, Columbus is a big COWTOWN...it is a city where people live for 10 years or so and then call it home when they are moved onto another city because of careers.

Columbus is a friendly town...not unusual for people to still say hello to you when walking down the sidewalk.

So, the media bias is for the tribe...for now...when the Reds win and have the fanbase...it will be a Reds town.

God forbid both teams do well at the same time they would have no idea what to do.

wheels
05-09-2006, 09:31 PM
Anyone notice that the Dispatch printed a Hal McCoy article today?

What with the quality I'm used to reading in that rag, I was actually very pleased.

Let's hope it's a trend.

Heath
05-09-2006, 10:17 PM
God forbid both teams do well at the same time they would have no idea what to do.

In 1995 they wanted to be build light rail between both teams for a World Series.

Too bad Atlanta ruined it .

TeamBoone
05-09-2006, 10:31 PM
1/2 price tickets for residents of Columbus (and vicinity). I think it's next weekend.

And FWIW, I've never felt that Cincinnati was anti-OSU. They sell their stuff everywhere... I see more OSU stuff in the stores than Reds stuff. And if it didn't sell, I doubt they'd carry it year after year.

EDIT: The half-price weekend for Columbus fans is the Arizona series, May 26-28.

Tools of Ignorance
05-13-2006, 02:46 PM
I disagree...the main reason for a papers team allegiences and alignment is to SELL papers. Not appease a smaller block of fans. I dont know the actual numbers of Reds/Indians ratio here but im sure the Dispatch does as its their business to know the numbers for sales purposes. If they think Indian stories sells more papers...thats their business. There is no state statute that says to be fair to all Ohio teams.

With all due respect, I think there are enough Reds fans in Columbus that doing a good job would increase sales. It shouldn't be a "Well, the Indians have 200,000 fans in Columbus, and the Reds only have 100,000, so we can't make any money on the Reds".

The Dispatch would be getting rid of a huge chunk of fans! I really don't believe it is such a small number that it's not worth pursuing.

If I am running Wendy's, I don't say "Well, we only sell one third the number of chicken sandwiches as we sell burgers, so we won't sell any chicken sandwiches". That loses a huge number of sales.