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View Full Version : Who advised Bowden to get Eddy E?



Cooper
05-08-2006, 04:52 PM
At the time it seemed as if Eddy E. was a throw in to the Rob Bell/Ruben Mateo trade. Was there a certain Reds scout who advised Bowden to get Texas to throw EE into the mix? Just curious. I know we talked about it at the time, but i'm guessing with time things have gotten a little clearer. Anybody know the particulars?

Puffy
05-08-2006, 05:21 PM
At the time it seemed as if Eddy E. was a throw in to the Rob Bell/Ruben Mateo trade. Was there a certain Reds scout who advised Bowden to get Texas to throw EE into the mix? Just curious. I know we talked about it at the time, but i'm guessing with time things have gotten a little clearer. Anybody know the particulars?

It has been written that a High Schooler named Jim Coombs told Bowden that the only way he'd sign with the Reds is if they acquired EdE in a trade first.

Spitball
05-08-2006, 05:28 PM
It has been written that a High Schooler named Jim Coombs told Bowden that the only way he'd sign with the Reds is if they acquired EdE in a trade first.

Interesting. I always assumed that the Rangers felt they were neck deep in young third basemen with Hank Blalock and Mark Teixeira waiting to develop.

westofyou
05-08-2006, 05:32 PM
EE was on the Rangers South Atlantic team in 2001, chances are it was a regional professional scout and a cross checker confirmed it. But it was Gary Hughes running the pro scouting department then.

PuffyPig
05-08-2006, 05:43 PM
OK, you win, I did.

Aronchis
05-08-2006, 06:17 PM
It was DanO. He advised that they have this raw green infielder who they should flip because Rob Bell was gonna be a star...................;)

KronoRed
05-08-2006, 06:21 PM
OK, you win, I did.
Promotion for you.

gm
05-08-2006, 07:48 PM
I'm guessing Almarez

top6
05-08-2006, 07:50 PM
how great would it be if it actually was Dan O who suggested trading EE for the Rangers?

StillFunkyB
05-08-2006, 09:41 PM
It has been written that a High Schooler named Jim Coombs told Bowden that the only way he'd sign with the Reds is if they acquired EdE in a trade first.

That Coombs guy sure is something, I tell you what.

CougarQuest
05-08-2006, 09:53 PM
I thought Bowden had said at the time that Ed E was the key to the trade, but people blew it off. Maybe it wasn't, maybe it was people in here talking up Ed E being the prime trading piece.

BCubb2003
05-08-2006, 10:18 PM
Keep your hands inside the Wayback Machine and don't step on any butterflies ...

From the Cincinnati Post, June 16, 2001:

It was only logical that Bowden would deliver a basket full of roster moves Friday, given the unlikely return to the active roster of Griffey, Larkin and Boone all on the same day.

But that doesn't account for the surprising trade of right-hander Rob Bell to the Texas Rangers for outfielder Ruben Mateo and infielder Edwin Encarnacion, a questionable transaction for an organization desperate for pitching and top-heavy with outfielders.

Bell, a disappointing 0-5 with a 5.48 ERA in nine starts this year, was thrilled for the chance to start anew with an organization that still recognized his potential. He was also admittedly puzzled by the trade, given the Reds' oft-stated intention to stockpile young pitchers.

''Jim had just been saying to me a week ago how Chris Reitsma and myself were the future of this team and the ones and twos for a long time,'' Bell said. ''That's just the way this game works out.''

The chameleon-like Bowden revised that assessment in a hurry once he found out that he could get Mateo, a top prospect and long a Bowden trade target.

''Obviously, we're making an opinion on what we think Bell's going to be,'' he said. ''If we thought he was a one or a two, we wouldn't make this deal.''

It seems like only yesterday that Bowden was trading second baseman Bret Boone and pitcher Mike Remlinger to Atlanta for Denny Neagle, Michael Tucker and Bell, proudly proclaiming Bell was the key to the trade. He was so sure of Bell's bright future they he showed him off on the Reds' winter caravan.

Two years later, it looms as a good trade gone bad. Bell is on his way to Texas, Neagle is pitching for the Rockies and Boone leads the American League in RBI.

Bowden explained his latest trade by professing the need to keep quality position players in the organization because of the impending free agency of Dmitri Young and Alex Ochoa. Besides, he said, the suddenly pitching-rich Reds have plenty of quality young pitchers in the persons of Dennys Reyes, John Riedling, Brian Reith, Lance Davis and Danny Graves.

KronoRed
05-08-2006, 10:36 PM
EE barely gets a mention, it was a trade for a 5 tooler

As usual for Jimbo ;)

traderumor
05-08-2006, 11:05 PM
Besides, he said, the suddenly pitching-rich Reds have plenty of quality young pitchers in the persons of Dennys Reyes, John Riedling, Brian Reith, Lance Davis and Danny Graves.:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:

TOBTTReds
05-08-2006, 11:07 PM
Besides, he said, the suddenly pitching-rich Reds have plenty of quality young pitchers in the persons of Dennys Reyes, John Riedling, Brian Reith, Lance Davis and Danny Graves.

:laugh: :laugh: :oops:

TOBTTReds
05-08-2006, 11:07 PM
TR, you beat me to it, I guess I was still reading when you posted.

BCubb2003
05-08-2006, 11:33 PM
:laugh: :laugh: :oops:

It's obvious that one of you disregarded the warning about not stepping on the butterflies, with severe consequences for the future of the Reds pitching staff.

Ron Madden
05-09-2006, 05:08 AM
All I can say is we got Lucky.

Lance McAlister has always done a segment called Down On The Farm where he gives highlights of the Reds minor league games from the day before.

I kept hearing Lance mention Edwins name, so I started to follow EE's progress as best I could.

IMHO Edwin and Deno are the best young position players to play in AA or AAA for the Reds since Dunn and Kearns.

redsmetz
05-09-2006, 12:58 PM
You know, that trade with Atlanta ultimately landed us both Edwin Encarnacion and Bronson Arroyo. Of course, Bell brought over Encarnacion, but Neagle brought us Drew Henson who we sent back to the Yankees for Wily Mo Pena; hence Bronson Arroyo.

Of course, I think you can track George Foster back to the Frank Robinson trade.

Is this the baseball equivalent of "The Kevin Bacon Game"?

Spitball
05-09-2006, 03:09 PM
Of course, I think you can track George Foster back to the Frank Robinson trade.

Is this the baseball equivalent of "The Kevin Bacon Game"?

Whoa! This should be fun! Let me see if I can track it.

F. Robby for Pappas, Baldshun, Simpson>Simpson for Alex Johnson>A.Johnson and Chico Ruiz for McGlothlin, Geishert, and someone>Geishert and Duffy for George Foster

Pappas, Teddy davidson, and Bob Johnson for Clay Carroll, Tony Cloninger, and Woody Woodward>hmmm...my head hurts. I'll have to think some on these guys.

RedsManRick
05-09-2006, 03:33 PM
Whoa! This should be fun! Let me see if I can track it.

F. Robby for Pappas, Baldshun, Simpson>Simpson for Alex Johnson>A.Johnson and Chico Ruiz for McGlothlin, Geishert, and someone>Geishert and Duffy for George Foster

Pappas, Teddy davidson, and Bob Johnson for Clay Carroll, Tony Cloninger, and Woody Woodward>hmmm...my head hurts. I'll have to think some on these guys.

www.baseball-reference.com is your friend!

KronoRed
05-09-2006, 04:10 PM
:lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol: :lol:
It's sad, I think Reith and Davis could have been more then cannon fodder if not rushed.

Jimbo :angry:

Spitball
05-09-2006, 06:29 PM
www.baseball-reference.com is your friend!

Thanks, Rick, but looking them up might be cheating. ;)

Aronchis
05-09-2006, 06:46 PM
It's sad, I think Reith and Davis could have been more then cannon fodder if not rushed.

Jimbo :angry:

Kron, shame on you. Davis was hardly rushed, he was cannon fodder soft tossing lefty.

KronoRed
05-09-2006, 09:48 PM
Kron, shame on you. Davis was hardly rushed, he was cannon fodder soft tossing lefty.
At least he was a cheap version :(

gonelong
05-09-2006, 11:32 PM
All I can say is we got Lucky.

I'd really like to think that somebody took one look at him and said, see if we can get him too.

I saw him at one Dragon's game fairly soon after the trade and reported on this board that he showed all the signs of being a very good player. Further games just confirmed this. Plus range at 3B, a good eye at the plate, real nice approach at the plate, showed nice speed on the basepaths, and he hit frickin' laser beams when he connected. He also showed real nice awareness at the plate, in the field, and on the basepaths.

To me, he instantly looked like a guy that had a real chance to be a solid MLB player. I put him with Kearns, Dunn, and Justin Morneau as "can't miss guys" that I had watched at Dayton.

GL

Crash Davis
05-10-2006, 12:41 AM
I haven't seen the answer to the original question. I'm pretty sure it was Al Goldis.

The only other fact I recall about Al Goldis is that he was supposedly responsible for signing Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura & Kerry Wood.

Ron Madden
05-10-2006, 04:21 AM
I'd really like to think that somebody took one look at him and said, see if we can get him too.

I saw him at one Dragon's game fairly soon after the trade and reported on this board that he showed all the signs of being a very good player. Further games just confirmed this. Plus range at 3B, a good eye at the plate, real nice approach at the plate, showed nice speed on the basepaths, and he hit frickin' laser beams when he connected. He also showed real nice awareness at the plate, in the field, and on the basepaths.

To me, he instantly looked like a guy that had a real chance to be a solid MLB player. I put him with Kearns, Dunn, and Justin Morneau as "can't miss guys" that I had watched at Dayton.

GL

Thanks for the insight GL. :thumbup:

I quess what I'm trying to say is we are lucky to have Edwin and I hope he is here for the next decade. :beerme:

backbencher
05-10-2006, 09:29 AM
I'd really like to think that somebody took one look at him and said, see if we can get him too.


My recollection is that Encarnacion was seen at the time as a reasonably important part of the deal from the Reds side. Whether that came from the front office, the commentariat or the boards I don't recall.

lollipopcurve
05-10-2006, 10:22 AM
The only other fact I recall about Al Goldis is that he was supposedly responsible for signing Frank Thomas, Robin Ventura & Kerry Wood.

I believe he also recommended Brandon Larson.

westofyou
05-10-2006, 10:25 AM
My recollection is that Encarnacion was seen at the time as a reasonably important part of the deal from the Reds side. Whether that came from the front office, the commentariat or the boards I don't recall.
I think that EE was requested to make up for the chance that Mateo didn't recover from his leg injury.

But Bowden loved Mateo the most.

http://www.usatoday.com/sports/baseball/rangers/2001-06-15-mateo-trade.htm

HOUSTON (AP) — The Texas Rangers traded one prospect for another Friday, sending disappointing outfielder Ruben Mateo to the Cincinnati Reds in exchange for starting pitcher Rob Bell.

The Reds also got infield prospect Edwin Encarnacion in the deal.

"It was just a matter of trying to get some arms," Rangers manager Jerry Narron said prior to a game against the Houston Astros. "Bell has a good arm and a bright future."

Mateo had been widely projected as the Rangers' center fielder of the future and he showed promise last season, batting .291 with seven homers and 19 RBI in 52 games.

"Ruben is a guy who had not lived up to expectations for us and he had been here for three years," Narron said. "We still expect Ruben Mateo to be a good player. We didn't want to give him up but to get good arms."

Mateo slumped this season and was hitting .248 when the Rangers sent him to the minors, where he hit even worse, with a .216 average at the time of the trade.

"I don't think it was a matter of work ethic or attitude with Ruben," Narron said. "He's been injured a lot and the expectations placed on him were very high.

"Everyone expected him to be Juan Gonzalez and Sammy Sosa and that's not going to happen."

Mateo broke a bone in his upper leg on June 2 last year while lunging to try to beat out a ground ball. He had a rod inserted to help the bone heal and missed the rest of the season.

Reds general manager Jim Bowden said Mateo hasn't completely recovered from the injury.

"In another year, we think he'll be 100%," Bowden said.

The Reds plan to assign Mateo, 23, to Louisville. With Texas this season, Mateo hit .248 with one home run and 13 runs batted in during 40 games. He also batted .216 with a homer and eight RBI for Triple-A Oklahoma.

''He has a tremendous amount of talent,'' the Reds' Bowden said. ''It's very hard to get guys like that. I've tried to get Mateo for a long time, ever since Doug Melvin took over as general manager there. I've made a lot of offers, and a lot of key players have been turned down year after year.''

Bell, who will step into the Rangers' rotation, was 0-5 with a 5.48 ERA in nine starts with the Reds. He was 2-2 with a 3.33 ERA in four starts and one relief appearance for the Reds' Triple-A Louisville affiliate.

"I just want to put the team in a position to win," Bell said. "I'm young, I think I got a lot going for me and I got a lot to learn. My strongest asset is my worth ethic, the things I do in between my starts give me an edge. I adjust well."

Narron expects improvement too.

"He has the arm and a great upside," Narron said. "We don't expect him to be a No. 1 right now but we do expect him to improve and be a No. 2 or No. 3 starter.

Bell will make his first Rangers start Tuesday against Anaheim in Arlington. He will replace Mike Judd (1-1) in the starting rotation.

"It's a tough deal to make," Rangers general manager Doug Melvin said. "We feel we are getting back a good quality pitcher. We did a lot of soul searching, a lot of phone conversations.

"We are going to have to improve our pitching and we are going to do it in-house. It's something that gets us balance."

Melvin said the Rangers will give Bell the ball.

"He's a big physical presence," Melvin said. "He's got a good fastball. He's still in the developmental stage."

Encarnacion, 18, batted .311 with 36 RBI last season in 51 games in the rookie-level Gulf Coast League. With Class A Savannah this year, Encarnacion hit .306 with four homers and 25 RBI in 45 games. The Reds plan to assign him to Class A Dayton (Ohio).

The Reds have a team in the Gulf Coast League, they probably saw him there.

KronoRed
05-10-2006, 02:51 PM
I believe he also recommended Brandon Larson.
Nobody's perfect.