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View Full Version : This quote from Krivsky bothers me....



remdog
05-10-2006, 07:56 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/SPT04/605100390/1078

"....I'll tell you I was very disappointed not to work with Sean Casey. ... I would have approached him about re-negotiating his contract to see if we could have worked something out there.....He'll be a free agent at the end of the year, too. So you never know...."

Moving on from Casey was the correct thing to do, even if the "mover" didn't get much value. I know it's been beaten to death but the answer at first base is simple and his name is Adam Dunn. In the long run it would be better for Dunn as well. The idea of bringing Casey back, even at a minimal salary simply delays the obvious.

Rem

macro
05-10-2006, 08:38 AM
I agree completely, and then some. Casey had his time here and it is over. Turn the page and look to the future.

Benny-Distefano
05-10-2006, 09:26 AM
http://news.enquirer.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20060510/SPT04/605100390/1078

I know it's been beaten to death but the answer at first base is simple and his name is Adam Dunn.



I keep hearing that. But I see better than I hear. At this point, it comes down to, who is better?

Casey or Hatteburg?

Easy answer.

RBA
05-10-2006, 09:39 AM
I keep hearing that. But I see better than I hear. At this point, it comes down to, who is better?

Casey or Hatteburg?

Easy answer.

No, it comes down to: Casey or Hatterburg or Dunn?

And that's your easy answer.

Z-Fly
05-10-2006, 09:46 AM
We will see if they put Dunn at 1B when Griffey returns.

Benny-Distefano
05-10-2006, 09:48 AM
No, it comes down to: Casey or Hatterburg or Dunn?

And that's your easy answer.


And how many games has Dunn started at 1st base this season?


"oh, but the "future"," I hear you thinking.

Cincinnati Sports is famous for "the future." :D

Heath
05-10-2006, 10:22 AM
Cincinnati Sports is famous for "the future." :D

Greg Cook says :wave:

redsfanfalcon
05-10-2006, 10:34 AM
Casey was/is a great guy, but slow, and that resulted into numerous double plays. If they do resign him, hit him 6th instead of 3rd, like around where Hatteberg hits. I say turn the page also.

puca
05-10-2006, 10:45 AM
Pretty soon you guys need to realize that Adam Dunn will not be playing 1b for the Reds this season or anytime soon. The timing of his signing of a LTC and the signing of Hattenburg tells me either Dunn requested off of 1b or Krivsky/Narron just doesn't think Dunn can handle the position. The only reason Hattenburg was introduced as a backup was to keep the illusion that Wily Mo had a starting position on this team. Dunn will not be moving to 1b.

redsfanmia
05-10-2006, 11:01 AM
Pretty soon you guys need to realize that Adam Dunn will not be playing 1b for the Reds this season or anytime soon. The timing of his signing of a LTC and the signing of Hattenburg tells me either Dunn requested off of 1b or Krivsky/Narron just doesn't think Dunn can handle the position. The only reason Hattenburg was introduced as a backup was to keep the illusion that Wily Mo had a starting position on this team. Dunn will not be moving to 1b.
Bingo

Unassisted
05-10-2006, 11:02 AM
I think that quote was more of a case of sensitivity to the audience of casual fans who read the newspaper, but loved Sean Casey. If he had offered the prevailing RedsZone sentiment that Casey's numbers didn't justify his salary, that would have gone over like a lead balloon to Casey's legions of fans. Dan O'Brien's answer to that question would have been two paragraphs long and been so obtuse that it probably wouldn't have made it into the newspaper. By responding with regret over not getting to work with Casey the solid citizen, Krivsky's answer pushed the right, innocuous buttons.

Besides, maybe the subtext to "see if we could have worked something out there" is that he would have approached him with a lower offer to re-sign, one more representative of his numbers?

westofyou
05-10-2006, 11:07 AM
I think that quote was more of a case of sensitivity to the audience of casual fans who read the newspaper, but loved Sean Casey.Yep, just last night they played a fans reaction to the season during the game and the guy just mentioned missing Casey and good luck and all that.... not one mention of the current team or their success.

But that's because ...Cincinnati Sports is famous for "the past".

KoryMac5
05-10-2006, 11:39 AM
Sean would come at a discounted price too. If he left here on bad terms than yes it would be time to move on. He is an upgrade over anything we have at the position and no matter how hard we close our eyes and hope, Griffey and Dunn will not be at first base anytime soon. Maybe the Pirates would take Williams back for him.

westofyou
05-10-2006, 11:54 AM
He is an upgrade over anything we have at the position Based on what?

It was his time to go and it looks like he might have trouble coming back form that injury, it's not a clear road to recovery nor if he's healthy is he a sure thing for anything other than base hit driven ob% at a higher price.

TeamBoone
05-10-2006, 12:00 PM
Yep, just last night they played a fans reaction to the season during the game and the guy just mentioned missing Casey and good luck and all that.... not one mention of the current team or their success.

But that's because ...Cincinnati Sports is famous for "the past".

Wasn't the fan asked, point blank, what he thought of the Casey trade?

westofyou
05-10-2006, 12:06 PM
Wasn't the fan asked, point blank, what he thought of the Casey trade?
I didn't catch that.. I just caught the fan... but if that's the question they're showing when the team is in first place in May then I have to question that decision.

Benny-Distefano
05-10-2006, 02:21 PM
A healthy Sean Casey is an upgrade over anyone we have at 1B.

Based on what?

Based on the fact that a healthy Sean Casey always seems to be above .300.

I know I'm the minority opinion here but I wouldn't have let Casey go, if I knew who his replacement(s) would be. Yes he is slow. But again, he's a slow .300 hitter with a penchant for doubles. Compare that with his replacement(s).

IF he was healthy, I'd take him back and plug him into the 6 or 7 spot, quicker than you can say "Scott Hatteberg."

pedro
05-10-2006, 02:30 PM
Who is this "healthy" Sean Casey everyone is talking about?

He's had one good year since 2001. Great guy. Time to move on.

2001MUgrad
05-10-2006, 02:41 PM
Hatteberg is one of the few Reds that still gets an ocassional Hit, so he is doing pretty well in my book.

westofyou
05-10-2006, 02:45 PM
Jack Wilson had as many doubles as Casey in 2004

KoryMac5
05-10-2006, 02:51 PM
Casey's last contract with the Reds was a definite mistake but he still wants to play for the Reds and he will be coming off a year of injuries. I'd much rather sign Casey than have another year of Hatteberg who is a descent bench player.

dsmith421
05-10-2006, 03:17 PM
Signing Sean Casey would be an enormous step backward for an organization that recently has been valuing performance and ability over nostalgia.

Absolutely a terrible idea, especially given that Carlos Pena and Ryan Shealy could be had relatively cheaply.

KronoRed
05-10-2006, 03:57 PM
I keep hearing that. But I see better than I hear. At this point, it comes down to, who is better?

Casey or Hatteburg?

Easy answer.
Yep..Hatteburg.

vic715
05-10-2006, 05:14 PM
If Casey would come back cheap why in the world would anybody care. The offense is not the problem on this team. My bet is that if we're in the hunt in Late July he'll be back.I have faith in Krisky right now and if he thinks Bringing Casey back will help this team then more power to him.

Shaggy Sanchez
05-10-2006, 05:19 PM
If we are in the hunt in late July and Casey is the guy we are trading for then I wil have lost all faith in Krivsky. The only players we should be making moves for is pitching at this point.

vic715
05-10-2006, 05:24 PM
I agree but depth is important too. I too hope pitching help will come waybefore July. Besides Krisky won't have to give up anyone of value to gey Casey.

Handofdeath
05-10-2006, 05:30 PM
Jack Wilson had as many doubles as Casey in 2004
Any time somebody suddenly hits 50 points over their career average and then the next season they drop back down, I'm curious. I'm not saying the S-word but that 2004 season of Wilson is certainly curious.

IslandRed
05-10-2006, 05:56 PM
I wouldn't have let Casey go, if I knew who his replacement(s) would be.

In absolute terms, I'd rather have a healthy Casey, but he's not often (or currently) healthy and he's much, much more expensive. You have to consider bang for the buck, and all things considered, a team is probably better off with a little less production from first base if it can get it for a tenth of the money, and spend the difference on something else it needs. (Not saying the previous regime effectively did that, mind you.)

MikeS21
05-10-2006, 05:57 PM
If Casey would come back cheap why in the world would anybody care. The offense is not the problem on this team. My bet is that if we're in the hunt in Late July he'll be back.I have faith in Krisky right now and if he thinks Bringing Casey back will help this team then more power to him.
My guess is that Adam Dunn playing 1B is has about as good of chance of happening as the Kearns to 3B experiment had. If Dunn wants to play LF, then let the man play LF. If you are going to build your team around him then keep him happy. Don't arm him with another reason to bolt Cincinnati.

And as vic said, the offense is not the problem. Sean Casey was never the "weakest link" in the batting line-up even with his DP's. It is unfair to blame the Reds' poor on-field performance on Sean Casey. The ONLY problem I had with Casey was that his production did not warrant the contract he was getting. But if he would come at a deeply discounted rate, I'd take him back in a heartbeat. I have no problem moving him down to #6 in the order. Bringing Casey in as a FA for next year is not a problem as long as he signs cheaply.

Having said that, I believe the bigger issue will be his health. Will his back heal completely, or will he always have a nagging injury? Can he regain his swing? I would sign him and have him prove he's healthy before I made any commitments to him.

Castellini LOVES nostalgia. That's why he keeps bringing back old players as coaches. I think he would jump on a chance to bring Casey back. Despite the fact that Casey's sabremetric value was low, he still was a huge draw for fans. And people would pay to come see Casey in a Reds' uniform again. Let's face it, it was just WRONG to see Casey wearing a Pirate's uniform.

TeamBoone
05-10-2006, 06:12 PM
I didn't catch that.. I just caught the fan... but if that's the question they're showing when the team is in first place in May then I have to question that decision.

I totally agree. I was surprised.

remdog
05-10-2006, 06:57 PM
If excusing Dunn from playing first base was the Devil that the Reds had to pay to keep Dunn here, so be it. But, if it is, it also sends a message that he may be a spoiled and/or selfish player who puts himself ahead of the team winning. I'm reserving judgement on that---if this team is in the running late in the season then I want to see Dunn be willing to make a move if it makes the team better.

Same thing for Jr. I love the guy but, at some point, both for the team and his own health, he's going to have to admit it's time to move.

The funny thing is that if these two guys would make a move it not only would make the team better defensively at three spots but it would also boost their individual worth. Is that so tough to realize? And what about a ring? Wouldn't a chance to pick up a WS ring be worth it? :dunno:

Rem

buckeyenut
05-10-2006, 08:38 PM
Casey was a decent player for this club. The problem with him was how he was used and the money.

If you could get him for 2-3M a year and bat him 6 or 7 and keep hatteburg around as a backup and PH, I think that would be solid. Would rather have Shealy, but Casey would work, at least until Votto proved he was ready.

Chip R
05-10-2006, 08:42 PM
In regards to bringing Casey back, I think most everyone who would want him back would agree that they would like that if he came cheap. First of all, you have to define cheap. What are we paying Aurilia and Mr. Hat, about $2M between them, if that? Casey is making over $8M now. Now he seems to be the kind of guy who is not about the money and is not ostentatious about what he does with his money. I do not think we will ever see his house on MTV Cribs. But he is a professional ballplayer and if the Reds came to him during the offseason and told him they would love to sign him but would only go as high as $3M, I think Sean may have some problems with that. The Bucs were willing to pay him $8M this year, what makes anyone think they will not make a strong case to keep him there?

BigRed
05-10-2006, 08:50 PM
Someone mentioned Carlos Pena, does he even have a job. I never heard where he signed anywhere after Detroit showed him the door.

Ultimately, Sean Casey brought a lot to this team. 300 hitter, decent defensively, and the emotional leader of the team. I would re-sign him with a lower price tag if given the chance.

kxblue
05-10-2006, 10:23 PM
Dunn obviously is not the solution at first base. His struggles at 1st were well documented at first. As a defensive liability, Id much rather have him in left than at first where he would have many more opportunities to commit an error.

vic715
05-10-2006, 11:36 PM
Someone mentioned Carlos Pena, does he even have a job. I never heard where he signed anywhere after Detroit showed him the door.

Ultimately, Sean Casey brought a lot to this team. 300 hitter, decent defensively, and the emotional leader of the team. I would re-sign him with a lower price tag if given the chance.
didn't he sign with the Yankees farm system?

Hondo
05-12-2006, 11:04 AM
Why not put Adam Dunn back at 1st, so then you can field:

C- LaRue/Valentin
1B- Dunn
2B- Phillips
3B- Encarnacion
SS- Lopez
LF- Freel
CF- Griffey
RF- Kearns

Oh yeah...Sign Casey as a Free Agent to be a Super Pinch Hitter and to be back up 1st Baseman...But the only problem is. I see someone like the Royals offering him a 4 year/20 million dollar deal to take over for Sweeney.

JaredRoberts.com

minus5
05-12-2006, 11:40 AM
The Bucs were willing to pay him $8M this year, what makes anyone think they will not make a strong case to keep him there?

The Reds are picking up part of that though so the Pirates weren't really willing to pay Casey $8M. Hard to say what The Pirate might be willing to pay him at the end of his contract when they'd have to pick up the whole tab.

GOREDSGO32
05-12-2006, 11:46 AM
Thing is DUNN CANT PLAY FIRST. They tried it at spring training and all reprots was he was absolutely terrible. Yeah lets give up errors at first needlessly, when we could have a lifetime .300 plus batter playing there.

Plus Hatteburg has been great for the team, he has exceeded my expectations for sure.

Next year Casey's price shouldn't be too high, I mean he will be injured probably what .. 50, 60 games just from this injury? No one is going to pay him big time dollars ... he would be a very very solid 1B. Right now I think one thing we could use is a good solid contact hitter.

westofyou
05-12-2006, 11:48 AM
Thing is DUNN CANT PLAY FIRST. They tried it at spring training and all reprots was he was absolutely terrible. Yeah lets give up errors at first needlessly, when we could have a lifetime .300 plus batter playing thereEven though he's played over 100 games there in regular season play.

.300 hitter!!! sign me up.

WVRedsFan
05-12-2006, 11:51 AM
Casey's last contract with the Reds was a definite mistake but he still wants to play for the Reds and he will be coming off a year of injuries. I'd much rather sign Casey than have another year of Hatteberg who is a descent bench player.

Am I missing something or just ignorant (don't answer that last part) :) ?

I've seem some really great defensive play from Hatteberg, or did I dream that? He's not the best first baseman, but I never thought Casey was either (I was more impressed with his bat, relatively speaking).

GOREDSGO32
05-12-2006, 11:54 AM
Yeah sparingly, the last thing this team needs is even WORSE defense.

TeamBoone
05-12-2006, 05:58 PM
Thing is DUNN CANT PLAY FIRST. They tried it at spring training and all reprots was he was absolutely terrible. Yeah lets give up errors at first needlessly, when we could have a lifetime .300 plus batter playing there.

Where the heck did you get that information?

#1 - He's already proven he can play first by doing it quite a bit in the past for this team (745.5 innings worth since 2002).

#2 - He hardly ever played there during Spring Training... instead, he often stayed back on road trips learning the finer points that don't get taught when one is just thrown into the position on the fly.

#3 - And maybe you can elaborate on the "reports" you read/heard because NO WHERE, absolutely no where, did I ever hear or read that Adam Dunn was "absolutely terrible" at 1B. Are you sure that isn't an assumption you made based on the fact that after acquiring Scott Hatteberg they moved Adam Dunn back to LF?

#4 - Since 2002, Adam Dunn has played 745.5 innings at first base. During that time he's made 11 errors so your argument that he'll "give up errors in place of runs" at 1B has absolutely no credence whatsoever.

#5 - Batting average is highly overrated.

I am in no way stating that I think Sean Casey was a poor first baseman, far from it. But your argument doesn't hold up. Adam Dunn instead of Sean Casey at 1B would in no way cripple this team.

TeamBoone
05-13-2006, 07:18 PM
For some reason people keep saying he played "several" games at 1B during ST and failed. In addition to the original poster on this thread alluding to same (as well as some posts in other threads), I read this same statement in a couple articles today and I also heard it voiced on the local sports news this morning.

Instead, I remember people (including me) complaining on this board throughout ST because he wasn't playing 1B and they wondered why, seeins as he skipped the WBC to work on it.

So I looked it up. One game... that's it.

Truly a test of his ability to play that position... right?

WVRedsFan
05-13-2006, 07:29 PM
For some reason people keep saying he played "several" games at 1B during ST and failed. In addition to the original poster on this thread alluding to same (as well as some posts in other threads), I read this same statement in a couple articles today and I also heard it voiced on the local sports news this morning.

Instead, I remember people (including me) complaining on this board throughout ST because he wasn't playing 1B and they wondered why, seeins as he skipped the WBC to work on it.

So I looked it up. One game... that's it.

Truly a test of his ability to play that position... right?

Daggone you, TB. I researched and researched to give this answer and you go and do it ahead of me. You're on my list :laugh: .

Right. One game in ST. When he had that error the other night I knew what the reaction would be. Leave Dunn alone, folks.

remdog
05-13-2006, 11:34 PM
For some reason people keep saying he played "several" games at 1B during ST and failed. In addition to the original poster on this thread alluding to same (as well as some posts in other threads).....

Huh?

Rem

TeamBoone
05-14-2006, 12:11 AM
[QUOTE=remdog]Huh?

I'm sorry REM.

For some dopey reason, I was thinking of a different thread. For some strange reason, I was thinking that GOREDSGO32 started this thread.